Thursday, February 22nd 2007

AGP is not dead - Nvidia brings the G84 AGP

According to "the the most reliable source on earth", NVIDIA plans to introduce a DirectX10 and AGP compatible graphics chip in April of this year. The G84 AGP will be pin-compatible to the GeForce 7600 GPU, so it should not be that complicated to build a graphics card around it.Source: TheInquirer
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50 Comments on AGP is not dead - Nvidia brings the G84 AGP

#1
C.Ash
JC316 said:
So, you don't think an overclocked opteron 165, or San Diego core CPU could handle an 8800? 939 is still quite strong and can handle quite alot.
Im sure that most people who have old sockets dont have high-end CPU's.

AGP is for the budget crowd who arent going to buy a new PC every 3 years. They may be numerous, but they are poor and they arent going to produce cards that will only be able to run on CPU's that less than 10% of the AGP base have. And even on those CPU's u arent going to get very good performance.
Posted on Reply
#2
WolfNippleChips
True

:cry:
C.Ash said:
Im sure that most people who have old sockets dont have high-end CPU's.

AGP is for the budget crowd who arent going to buy a new PC every 3 years. They may be numerous, but they are poor and they arent going to produce cards that will only be able to run on CPU's that less than 10% of the AGP base have. And even on those CPU's u arent going to get very good performance.
:cry:

This Is true, as I am one of those people. I have had my computer for atleast four years now and have upgraded as needed. and on a budget... but it does well for what I want. when vistas bugs are worked out I will build a cheap but upgradeable and tweakable AM2 board with x16 and sli or crossfire...whichever is more appealing (cheaper). this is future stuff, so be conservative a little (or a lot) and wait for the stability thats on the market to show itself.
Posted on Reply
#3
ktr
C.Ash said:
AGP cards are made for people with old sockets because the majority of people with AGP have something less than 775.

Obviously they are not going to make an AGP version of the 8800 GTX for the 0.1% of people with 775 and AGP.

Not to mention that motherboards that have AGP and 775 CANNOT support Core 2 Duo and definetely not Quad-Core Kentsfield. They will support Pentium D at the very most, and those arent much better than Pentium 4.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?SrchInDesc=Core%202%20Duo&Page=1&Category=20&N=2010200280+1073407577&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Subcategory=280

found some agp and core2 support...

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=775Dual-VSTA&s=n
Posted on Reply
#4
Moriendor
ktr said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?SrchInDesc=Core%202%20Duo&Page=1&Category=20&N=2010200280+1073407577&Submit=ENE&Nty=1&Subcategory=280

found some agp and core2 support...

http://www.asrock.com/mb/overview.asp?Model=775Dual-VSTA&s=n
That... or check out the Asrock Conroe 865PE . I got that board and I'm running an E6300 in combination with a Gainward 7800GS and 2048MB RAM. Great combo.
I see absolutely no need to splash down the EUR 1200.00 - 1500.00+ that would be required for a new gaming rig.
I just hope that they will be making some really nice, high performance G84/8600 models. The EUR 120 price point that the INQ is reporting sounds great but it also sounds like it may be a bit too low for a card that will hopefully outperform a 7800GS or an ATI X1950 Pro. That's why I hope that they will make an AGP Ultra model as well (the 500MHz/1400MHz with 512MB GDDR3 @ 256 Bit 8600GT Ultra model that's been confirmed for PCIe). If they bring one of those to market for EUR 200 max then I'll get one for sure.

Long live AGP! :)
Posted on Reply
#5
Completely Bonkers
C.Ash said:
blah blah blah blah blah
Not to mention that motherboards that have AGP and 775 CANNOT support Core 2 Duo and definetely not Quad-Core Kentsfield. They will support Pentium D at the very most, and those arent much better than Pentium 4.
Casheti, young man, read post #20 again. Follow the link.
Posted on Reply
#6
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
a 754 can handle a 8800GTX so can someone running a 5ghz P4 HT why should AGP die it runs just fine. Heck my ti4200 runs PREY 1024X768 on HIGH and gets reasonable FPS. The AGP bus is not even been fully used quite yet the only thing PCI-e has is dual-way bandwidth transfer.

oh and C.ASH i have a ECS P4M800 V1 that supports C2Q, C2D, AGP, DDR1 and DDR2
Posted on Reply
#7
Khriez
Completely Bonkers said:

5./ I'd love to upgrade... but will wait for PCIe v2.00 and DDR3. Both of these are BIGGER upgrades over PCIe and DDR2 than PCIe and DDR2 were over PCI and DDR. >> I'm sorry for you that later this year you will have to throw out all your kit to upgrade again to DDR3 and PCIe16 v2.0
Umm, so any motherboards currently in the market (i.e. an Nvidia's nForce 680i board) with PCIe slots will not be compatible with PCIe16 v2.0 ? How long until these PCIx16 v2.0 motherboards come out ?
Posted on Reply
#8
KennyT772
pci-e x16 and pci-e 2.0 are the same thing as agp and agp 2x. same slot/faster clockrate. whatever card/board you have the bus will run at the speed of the slower part.
Posted on Reply
#9
Completely Bonkers
Kenny's right. It is slot compatible and backwards compatible meaning that a PCIe v2.0 card WILL work in a PCIe v1.0 slot, at PCIe v1.0 speed. PCIe v2.0 is basically 2x the speed, but other small enhancements.

The specification isn't final. So no predicting when the mainboards will be out... but expect Q3. FSB 1600 will be matched with PCIe v2.0 (except for the very first boards that will use existing chipset). Personally, I think they should go with 4x not 2x. That would mean a physical 4x slot would have the power of a current x16 slot. That would be much more space efficient and would allow for much smaller GPU cards. (mid range... obviously the top end will always be big due to memory and GPU and cooler sizes)
Posted on Reply
#10
tkpenalty
*Falls off chair and laughs*

Inquirer seriously needs to stop being unrealistic and making up bullshit.
Posted on Reply
#11
Khriez
So I'm assuming (speculation between older AGP4x vs. AGP8x card) there won't be too much (or barely) any difference between original PCIex16 and the PCIex16 v2.0 if two identical cards where one was old PCIe and the other PCIe version 2.0.

But wtf do I know about all these.... :)
Posted on Reply
#12
Batou1986
to my knowledge pci e 1.0 will work in pci e 2.0 but 2.0 cards are keyed so that they will not fit in 1.0 slots just like agp 2x/4x wont fit in agp 6x/8x same slot same pin's just keyed different

btw for teh noobs those key things that im referring to are the notches cut in connectors that make it so the expansion cards can only go in one way
Posted on Reply
#13
Completely Bonkers
Batou might have a valid point... but I think that PCIe v2.0 is the same voltage... the keying of PCI and AGP is to protect the slot/card from wrong voltage... since 5v when to 3.3v on PCI and AGP went from 5V to 3.3v to 1.8v (or something similar).

My understanding is the PCIe v2.0 slot is backwards compatible with PCIe v1, and PCIe v2.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCVe v1. There won't be slot keys. The cards will work... but will (naturally) have to adopt the SLOWEST communication link.
Posted on Reply
#14
Supersnake
Will this proposed AGP card outperform a 7800GS?

QUESTION: Should one expect that this (proposed) NVIDIA G84 AGP card is going to outperform the NVIDIA 7800GS AGP?

Thanks!



(I know that the ATI X1950 Pro AGP outperforms the 7800GS but I am not interested in obtaining one.)
Thanks!
Posted on Reply
#16
KennyT772
same voltage, theres no point in changing it. this is part of the reason why they went to pci-e over revamping agp..again. they needed to scrap the bus design and power design for something faster and more effcient.

currently pci-e supplys 75w of 12v power over the bus, this will stay the same regaurdless of the revision. low end cards do not use more then the 75w. the high end cards have now been using external power plugs for years now. there goes the only reason to change the voltages.

the main reason for the new slot is the switch from parallel data transfer to serial data transfer. apg 8x could only send or receive at any given time and it had 4 channels for communication iirc. pci-e has 16 (for 16x, 8 for 8x etc) independant lanes that can send and receive at the same time. also agp was a 266mhz bus, pci-e is only 100mhz. much more efficient.



for those who run c2d+agp hackjob boards, i hope you dont game with them. every single one of the hacked together boards perform like shit due to fsb, and lane restrictions. they are a waste in reality. most e6600's in hacked boards are slower then e6300's in good boards, even with the huge difference in clockspeed.

however top of the line skt 478 boards running a 8600 would be cpu limited up below 1024*768, but who knows where that limit would actually be. skt 754 cpus when clocked accordingly to skt 939's will perform rather similar save the dual channel ram. either way skt754's and 478's still have life, just no longer at the top of the food chain
Posted on Reply
#17
Completely Bonkers
@Kenny, while your post has a lot of logic... benchmarks show that the c2d+agp hackjobs do not "perform like shit". Granted, they are not able to run the fastest overclockable memory... but DDR is still faster than DDR2 at the same clock. Meaning, if you are going stock and not overclocking, you can get a hackjob PC that will perform as good as any mainstream new board.

Benchmarks have shown that X1950Pro AGP is as fast as X1950Pro PCI. Cannot argue with that!

The main reason "hackjob PCs" are interesting... is NOT because people want to stay in yesterdays technology, but because they have significant investments in GPU and DDR that can be recycled.

My case: $400 of memory... $600 of GPU.

I'd like to go Quad Core 2 for encoding purposes... I'm delighted there is the upgrade path via *hack*. Saving me $1000 on unnecessarily replacing memory and GPU.
Posted on Reply
#18
dbentley1267
DanTheBanjoman said:
There are a few AGP boards out there that are not yet obsolete. Workstation boards for example, and those AGP+C2D boards. However, even these boards will become obsolete pretty soon.
Why are we in denial???

I run a dual xeon with AGP, with 2 3.2 GHz xeons and 4GB of DDR. I don't maybe I am mising something but I do still have a very viable system to do just about anything I need done.

So what do I gain by moving to PCI-E????

I can say this for me to move to equivilant PCI-E rig it is upwards of 4500 USD.

No my little 5 year old dual 3.2 xeon and AGP have a lot of life left in them.
Posted on Reply
#19
dbentley1267
C.Ash said:
Im sure that most people who have old sockets dont have high-end CPU's.

AGP is for the budget crowd who arent going to buy a new PC every 3 years. They may be numerous, but they are poor and they arent going to produce cards that will only be able to run on CPU's that less than 10% of the AGP base have. And even on those CPU's u arent going to get very good performance.
You guys are really something. How about some of us have bought and built real systems when most of you were playing around with single core pieces of junk.

I do not know how many dual processor workstations i have built and run. The one I run now is a 5 year old board and runs great

2 xeons and 4 GB of ram etc... and much more.

I need that new DX10 card for my last vista upgrade.

Besides even when I do go PCI-E for the money most will spend on a single socket system I will probably spend less on a new dual socket and have more power than needed.

Again Dual Socket rules as always!!!!!!!
Posted on Reply
#20
niko084
Heh all good things must end at some point...

It's dead LETitGO. :)
Posted on Reply
#21
niko084
dbentley1267 said:
You guys are really something. How about some of us have bought and built real systems when most of you were playing around with single core pieces of junk.

I do not know how many dual processor workstations i have built and run. The one I run now is a 5 year old board and runs great

2 xeons and 4 GB of ram etc... and much more.

I need that new DX10 card for my last vista upgrade.

Besides even when I do go PCI-E for the money most will spend on a single socket system I will probably spend less on a new dual socket and have more power than needed.

Again Dual Socket rules as always!!!!!!!
Although that may be worth something its never used for high end gaming and almost always used for servers which really don't need video...

There are no server boards out there that support dual or more processors that also support Crossfire or SLI to the best of my knowledge, and if in the odd case there is one, send me a link because I'll buy one tomorrow.
Posted on Reply
#22
niko084
dbentley1267 said:
Why are we in denial???

I run a dual xeon with AGP, with 2 3.2 GHz xeons and 4GB of DDR. I don't maybe I am mising something but I do still have a very viable system to do just about anything I need done.

So what do I gain by moving to PCI-E????

I can say this for me to move to equivilant PCI-E rig it is upwards of 4500 USD.

No my little 5 year old dual 3.2 xeon and AGP have a lot of life left in them.
And to be perfectly honest here... You dual 3.2 Xeon "Netburst" would probably fall behind possibly even my overclocked e6420 core2duo...
Posted on Reply
#23
Grings
niko084 said:
Although that may be worth something its never used for high end gaming and almost always used for servers which really don't need video...

There are no server boards out there that support dual or more processors that also support Crossfire or SLI to the best of my knowledge, and if in the odd case there is one, send me a link because I'll buy one tomorrow.
i think nforce 4 professional ones did, a step backwards now though (they were for opteron 200 series)

edit: or these of course, which are just silly (amd 4x4)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=548097
Posted on Reply
#24
niko084
Grings said:
i think nforce 4 professional ones did, a step backwards now though (they were for opteron 200 series)

edit: or these of course, which are just silly (amd 4x4)
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=548097
That would be cool... But I need one for Xeon's :)
or possibly the newer AMD's to come.

**************
Ohh heh now we are talking :)
Well I was looking last year and couldn't find any...
Posted on Reply
#25
Grings
I think that asus 680a board will support the new socket f(1207) chips, i dont think it has the newer hypertransport 3 though
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