Bee9The heat is just outside of the cooler thermal envelope. So it's best not to include one to embarrass themselves. The previous version is still on sale for $400 and that's a good bang for your bucks.
The new gen will be delayed, so it's best to release something to capture market attention.

$ReaPeR$The box cooler can handle them if you are not pushing the CPU, so basically when gaming on stock specs. TBH anyone who would buy a 300$ and above CPU will never use a box cooler either from Intel or AMD.

Bee9That's why they did not include the stock cooler. The stock cooler cannot guarantee higher boost clock when ambient temperature is high. Especially this is a summer release and not everyone can enjoy the ambient temperature in the ideal range of 20C. My room temperature is about 31C during the day, so it's hard for the wraith to cool the 3900X. AMD may run into trouble if the stock cooler cannot cool the CPU adequately at 4.6-4.7 Ghz.

$ReaPeR$Yes. If we judge from the response to the previous boost blunder, I think they made the best choice available, it's not like Intel offers box coolers with the k series anyway so obviously, that is a valid option for AMD. I used to live in Greece btw and I can sympathize on the summer heat issue.

Bee9And they cut the cost for the cooler too.
from a marketing standpoint, this works well. Most people will slap a water cooler on it anyway.

oh mate, greece is nothing compare to some asian countries like Vietnam.

AnarchoPrimitivI honestly see zero reason to be upset or complain. These XT versions ARE NOT replacing the non-Xt versions, AMD is just giving more options and a slight performance boost while leaving the MSRP exactly the SAME. Seriously, what is there to complain about? I also heard that AMD is going to discount the Non-XT versions further as well, so at least to me this seems good all around...or am I missing something here?

Bee9This thread is about more choices for the market. Consumers have more CPU to choose from.
Then it turned into a troll fest of AMD better or Intel better. We already benchmarked those CPUS to dead already and they still can't figure it out. It's sad.

CheeseballThey should've made the 3600XT do 4.9 GHz single-core, maybe 4.5 GHz all-core and included the Wraith Prism cooler. That would give the 10600K a run for its money.

CheeseballThey should've made the 3600XT do 4.9 GHz single-core, maybe 4.5 GHz all-core and included the Wraith Prism cooler. That would give the 10600K a run for its money.

AssimilatorMuch wow.

stimpy88AMD just jumped the shark.

1.) No stock coolers with the higher-end parts
2.) Up to a 40%+ increase in price for an "up to" 4% speed improvement
3.) Delayed Zen 3 - Due to "lack of competition", just at the point where AMD should have delivered the killer blow to Intel

AMD just cannot let go of their past, their amateur business management and marketing practices continue even after they were on the brink of bankruptcy. I would have thought they would have learned from that. Now they are beginning to erode the built-up goodwill of their customers. A precious thing to throw away... ask Intel.

I guess we can sit back and watch them screw up their GPU business next, as if it's possible to screw it up more than it already is.

Mark LittlePfft...4% single threaded increase. Come on AMD, you basically did nothing.

Xx Tek Tip xXTry telling that to the people that bashed intel for "refreshing" SKUs from the angry AMD hate train when intel also made process improvements from 14nm to 14nm+ to 14nm++ with higher drive current and less leakage and yet AMD puts out this XT series with "more mhz" when the main bottleneck of Zen2 is the infinity fabric clockspeed and yet it's perfectly excusable to charge this much apparently according to the cult of AMD fanboys. Not to even mention the 3900X is dirt cheap these days for example.......

Bee9Lisa Su is not a novice in term of marketing and management. So, I believe in her decision of letting go of the cooler on the 3900XT.
1. First, Wraith cooler cannot adequately cool the 3900XT with the higher frequency boost. It will be a disaster if the CPU cannot reach the advertised boost clock with the stock cooler. AMD is trying to avoid that.
2. They make more money selling the 3900XT at $500. Fewer will buy it and make the 3900X an even more attractive option that can practically reach the same clock speed as the XT if you invest in a better cooler.
3. Zen 3 is delayed but not primarily due to the lack of competition. I've never heard anything official from AMD regarding of the reason for the delay. The rumors are just rumors. On my end, I've seen delay in production because geo-political issues and the pandemic logistics. Of course, on the marketing standpoint, I think delaying is a good move because AMD can save for what Intel has to offer next year. Saving a trick against major competition is wise.
AMD is doing better but they are not out of the danger zone yet. They need the money to invest in R&D. So, it's best to get more when you can.
3900XT is still a good choice for people who want the Jack of all Trades at $500.

[I hope this reply adhere to the forum rules and regulations, please let me know if it is not]

stimpy88If Zen 3 is late, too highly priced, and/or not offering a substantial IPC improvement, then it opens the door to Intel, and we all loose.

R0H1TThe ones in the market for a cheap, good VFM chip will likely choose Ryzen (non XT) & the ones for a gaming chip would mostly go Intel. The ones not informed will be lured towards Intel, the smarter/more informed user will choose AMD except in edge cases like top tier (last 0.1% FPS) or high refresh rate gaming. Then there's Covid, zen3 launching when it is was likely a wise choice, any blow from the DIY market will not kill Intel not even metaphorically. Their bread & butter is OEM systems & laptops. That's where AMD needs their guns pointed at!

stimpy881.) AMD say they have tweaked the manufacturing process to deliver better thermals, to offset the 2-3c temperature increase a 100MHz increase will cause. So again, why no cooler? Many people run the 3900x on it's stock cooler with no problems whatsoever. It was also a buying incentive for people unsure of spending lots of money on a cooler, as Intel forces it's customers to do.

2.) AMD have no problems selling their stock.

3.) At least it seems that Zen 3 is still on track after all, which is the only point that damages my original argument, if it's true. However, if AMD were affected by the pandemic, we would all know it, as TSMC would have announced it for them. The Zen 3 design was finalised a year ago...

4.) You would need your head checked if you think paying $500 for maybe 100MHz more performance sometimes, and under ideal conditions is worth the 20% price premium over the 3900x, which could also save you another $50 on a cooler to boot! I have no doubt that some people will buy one of these 3900XT CPUs, but it's hardly going to re-ignite sales. It will however, increase sales of the standard 3900X, with it's lower profit margin, which takes me back to my argument regarding AMDs competency at business strategy.

If Zen 3 is late, too highly priced, and/or not offering a substantial IPC improvement, then it opens the door to Intel, and we all loose.

A Computer GuyI thought I read somewhere the new XT processors also supported higher IF speed as well? Was that rumor or confirmed?

Mark LittlePfft...4% single threaded increase. Come on AMD, you basically did nothing.