theoneandonlymrk17.3x£540.10(UK coinbase) =£9.343.73- elecy - part costs etc.

So £93000/year with a setup worth £74000, utilities/maintenance excluded? Is that really worth it?

DeathtoGnomesno reason to be mad at miners, they want cards as much as anyone else. But are willing to pay the premium others do not.

Exactly.

Most of the mining hate comes from the fact that they are competition for merchandise to gamers, not that they're doing anything wrong per se.

ZeppMan217So £93000/year with a setup worth £74000, utilities/maintenance excluded? Is that really worth it?

not for me it isn't.
But that's monthly totals 112k /year in UK sterling so if electricity is cheap, it's risky though , because the price is soo volatile.

mouacykIt's worked out in the source article at TechARP: Crypto Mining Rig With 78 GeForce RTX 3080 Cards! | Tech ARP

Oh thanks, didn't click on the source article.

theoneandonlymrk17.3x£540.10(UK coinbase) =£9.343.73- elecy - part costs etc.

Cool!

theoneandonlymrknot for me it isn't.
But that's monthly totals 112k /year in UK sterling so if electricity is cheap, it's risky though , because the price is soo volatile.

But the cards will still be valuable though right? If the cost can be recouped in 1 year, give or take, due to the shortage (that perhaps mining help to create), the cards can still be sold for probably 50% value in a year. It could be viable, if one can put up with the noise and heat.

miners are good people, good for these miners for buying these cards so i sell 3080s for a high profit.

yotano211miners are good people, good for these miners for buying these cards so i sell 3080s for a high profit.

Miners are neither bad, nor good people. What they are, is capable of stumping up the cash (that others cannot) to create wealth from nothing. It's another form of investment capitalism where those with enough finance can make ever more money, without gain to others. By buying (in totality) vast amounts of a product, they also serve the manufacturer by inflating price based on the pivotal 'supply and demand' principle.

In that scenario, industrial scale mining is the absolute anathema to the PC hobbyist. So yeah, the animosity is understandable.

the54thvoidMiners are neither bad, nor good people. What they are, is capable of stumping up the cash (that others cannot) to create wealth from nothing. It's another form of investment capitalism where those with enough finance can make ever more money, without gain to others. By buying (in totality) vast amounts of a product, they also serve the manufacturer by inflating price based on the pivotal 'supply and demand' principle.

In that scenario, industrial scale mining is the absolute anathema to the PC hobbyist. So yeah, the animosity is understandable.

it takes money to make money which is what pisses off the average hobbyist.. largely because money is something most of them dont have..

mining can make money but more money can be made simply by buying the coin and watching it go up in value.. if the money spent on that 78 card rig had simply have been used to buy bitcoin or etherium more money would have been made in a couple of weeks than the rig will make in a year..

but ether way it takes money to make money.. which is why the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor..

trog

trog100...
mining can make money but more money can be made simply by buying the coin and watching it go up in value.. if the money spent on that 78 card rig had simply have been used to buy bitcoin or etherium more money would have been made in a couple of weeks than the rig will make in a year..

but ether way it takes money to make money.. which is why the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor..

trog

Absolutely. It's what industrial miners ought to do - just invest in the coins themselves.

It's such a goddamn energy waste; 9 months of 24/7 operation just to financially break even at today's Ethereum rates and the air conditioning adds 50% to the running costs. Here's me scrapping my polluting car to use public transport or a bike, switching to LED lighting and A-rated appliances and installing insulation and double-glazing to prevent wasting heat in winter. Why do I even bother?

We're looking at 35KW for 9 months straight, which works out at 230,000 KWh of energy wasted in that period alone.

I mean holy shit, we are trying to fight climate change and save energy, prevent global warming and here is someone not even getting rich particularly quickly whilst wasting enough energy to power 46 average European homes for a year, and since that's an average of 2.3 people per household, this one fricking stupid mining rig wastes more energy to break even in 9 months than 106 people use in a year.

That's right, this one fucker is wasting enough electricity in 9 months to last 106 people a whole year, and he isn't going to stop there, because 9 months only covers his raw purchase cost. No, he's gonna run this indefinitely until it's no longer cost effective to his greedy, environmentally-wasteful self.

Feel free to check my maths/figures; 300W per card, 50% extra for air conditioning, 5000KWh per European household and 2.3 people per household in Europe.

yotano211Worthless article from TPU, more cut and paste crap.

This iteration of your sentiment is alright, the one Raevenlord quoted... that's looney bin material if you ask me. Double standards taken so far out of proportion its unreal. But that is also how you do business so it does not really surprise - and you're smart enough to acknowledge this too ;) Can only respect that... but swinging the hammer around in your own glass house... hmm... that's just weird, out of place, and damages your reputation, whatever is left of it at least.

Can't you agree on that? Or do you have another perspective on it with the vaguest sense of ethics involved?

the54thvoidMiners are neither bad, nor good people. What they are, is capable of stumping up the cash (that others cannot) to create wealth from nothing. It's another form of investment capitalism where those with enough finance can make ever more money, without gain to others. By buying (in totality) vast amounts of a product, they also serve the manufacturer by inflating price based on the pivotal 'supply and demand' principle.

In that scenario, industrial scale mining is the absolute anathema to the PC hobbyist. So yeah, the animosity is understandable.

Its also... well... a completely wasteful practice. And there are opinions on those kinds of things, but I can't really blame individual miners for it either to be fair. What we should take a long, collective look at, is the system that is provided and nurtured here. Alongside a vast number of other systems we've developed over time and are now working against us in a big way. As far as I recall, we initially had different intentions - even with Bitcoin and crypto. Its just that simple greed and lust for power corrupt systems, and without checks and balances, it destroys their purpose. For Bit- and altcoins, all of them, that's where its at now and will probably remain. Trust is generally about zero - so all it attracts is risk capital.

What needs to happen is perhaps what @Chrispy_ is looking at: the environmental damage / waste production. Its only a matter of time before all companies and all activities are placed on that scale and paid for accordingly. Its a running bill that has long gone into the deep red numbers, we've got some debt there and the bank is Mother Earth and its provision of habitable space - and mankind is still growing in number while space is dwindling.

It won't last, and might even last less than a decade at this rate. Forget viruses... we're getting stuff far worse on our plate if we don't act fast. All events pointing in that direction are escalating and increasing in frequency at a pace more rapid than any climate model could predict...

Vayra86What needs to happen is perhaps what @Chrispy_ is looking at: the environmental damage / waste production. Its only a matter of time before all companies and all activities are placed on that scale and paid for accordingly. Its a running bill that has long gone into the deep red numbers, we've got some debt there and the bank is Mother Earth and its provision of habitable space - and mankind is still growing in number while space is dwindling.

It won't last, and might even last less than a decade at this rate. Forget viruses... we're getting stuff far worse on our plate if we don't act fast. All events pointing in that direction are escalating and increasing in frequency at a pace more rapid than any climate model could predict...

I'm far from an eco-hippy and my lifestyle will never be undamaging to the environment (I fly to other countries too often and enjoy technology made in extremely polluting and harmful ways) but at least I'm aware that I'm doing damage and trying to offset that as much as I reasonably can.

The eye opener for me was this xkcd:
xkcd.com/1732/

And the worst-case "current path" at the bottom turned out to be too optimistic itself, because that was over 4 years ago, based on 2013 and 2014 data. The rate of icecap melting and ocean temperature have turned out to be far worse and more rapid that Randal Munroes predictions of four years ago. We, as a species are fucked. The question is not if, but when it will become really, really bad. I'm comfortably middle-aged so perhaps I'll live out my lifespan relatively unscathed. I can't say I believe that will be true for the younger generation here on TPU.

Chrispy_I'm far from an eco-hippy and my lifestyle will never be undamaging to the environment (I fly to other countries too often and enjoy technology made in extremely polluting and harmful ways) but at least I'm aware that I'm doing damage and trying to offset that as much as I reasonably can.

The eye opener for me was this xkcd:
xkcd.com/1732/

And the worst-case "current path" at the bottom turned out to be too optimistic itself, because that was over 4 years ago, based on 2013 and 2014 data. The rate of icecap melting and ocean temperature have turned out to be far worse and more rapid that Randal Munroes predictions of four years ago. We, as a species are fucked. The question is not if, but when it will become really, really bad. I'm comfortably middle-aged so perhaps I'll live out my lifespan relatively unscathed. I can't say I believe that will be true for the younger generation here on TPU.

We're having summer and spring draught periods already in the Netherlands, go figure. We're supposed to be a wet country, most of it below sea level and full of rivers. Farming is so intensive that they're just sucking out all the juice... vast majority just for export.

On top of that, our 'new economy' is littering the place with data centers. Lots of water nearby... :banghead: After all, cat videos and likes make money.

Sadly, GPU mining modern Ethereum coins is a thing. Hopefully it will be shortlived. I think that is the present expectation, so I hope not too many farms like this actually spring up.

there is a degree of hypocrisy in this thread people.. gaming aint exactly an essential use of power.. gamers must waste one hell of lot more power than crypto miners..

those 300 watts per card figures are also wrong.. more like 200 watts per card.. the cards will all be set to a 60 % max power limit.. keeping the heat and power usage down is part of the game..

my 2080 ti card which is currently mining is running at 990 mhz.. minus 450 on the core clock and a max power setting of 60%...

contrary to popular belief mining cards are not being flogged to death.. far from it.. they are set for minimum power usage and minimum heat generation.. the memory is clocked up but everything else is clocked down..

my 8 x 1070 machine is silent in operation all 24 fans just ticking over and it pulls around 1000 watts.. its running in my spare bedroom with the wide door open..

it puts out about 200 mh/s.. a 3080 card generates about twice as much coinage as a 1070 card.. i recon set up correctly a 3080 card would use around 160 watts not a lot more..

trog

ps.. for what its worth i own about 1/3 of a bitcoin.. 10 eth and 25 lite coin.. i am at least $7000 dollars richer than i was a couple of weeks back.. all this is stuff i hodled from the last time around.. the hardware i mining with is also from the last time round.. i would not spend any more on mining hardware..

trog100there is a degree of hypocrisy in this thread people.. gaming aint exactly an essential use of power.. g

Spot on, thats why we need a system that prices energy use and pollution better. A gamer uses one card... this miner uses?

Such a system would avoid all of the bad looks - you pay for what you do anyway, so then its fair.

Hi,
First come = first served.

Vayra86Spot on, thats why we need a system that prices energy use and pollution better. A gamer uses one card... this miner uses?

Such a system would avoid all of the bad looks - you pay for what you do anyway, so then its fair.

Whoa... hold on. A gamer uses 300Watts for a few hours per week. trog uses 1000Watts every hour for 24/7. How did anyone miss that? Paying for it isn't exactly fixing the env problems.

mouacykWhoa... hold on. A gamer uses 300Watts for a few hours per week. trog uses 1000Watts every hour for 24/7. How did anyone miss that? Paying for it isn't exactly fixing the env problems.

Its not a fix all, but it does for example provide a means to make a mining operation much less profitable; and it inspires using less instead of more, which is what our current economy is based on. Even mining is inherently designed to inspire throwing every more energy at the problem... to do what? Solve puzzles with solutions that print money?

Mining should be banned by law, it's a complete waste of resources to produce absolutely nothing.

Maybe the increasing complexity of cryto-mining will accelerate our march towards a K2 civilization, and drain the sun's energy for a chance at digging up a doge. Seriously, people need to understand that not every miner's work is valuable. So what is the cost of the wasted effort?

The thing about gamers' cards are that they're not running 24/7/365 and most people only have one card. Even with a single-card mining rig at just 60% power limit, mining uses a lot of power because it's running at 60% power for all 168 hours in a week. 60% power limit on a 3080 is still 210W.

I game for maybe 10 hours a week, possibly 20 during COVID lockdown but that's unusual and we've only had a couple of short lockdowns this year. Some people game more than me but I still doubt they're gaming for 168 hours a week. Gaming does not use 350W at all times, so even with the power limit at 100% the average gaming consumption is only 300W.

300W for 10 hours is definitely less wasteful than 210W for 168 hours every week. 118x less wasteful, to be exact - and this is a single-card comparison. Miners will usually buy multiple cards so an 8-card mining rig is almost 1000x worse than a gamer in terms of GPU energy usage.

Hi,
Must be some good tax write offs somewhere
Could be some new electric companies doing all this mining lol

repman244Mining should be banned by law, it's a complete waste of resources to produce absolutely nothing.

The payment network is the product, which is actually more a product than gaming produces.

I'm not saying it's a good use of resources mind. It isn't really. But it is a bad argument to follow, what you are proposing.

halcyonThis crypto-ponzi-scam is getting really tired. Hope they come up with a cheap ASIC soon that kills the whole mining biz.

ETH was designed to be ASIC resistant. That's why you're looking at this article.

compagny should separate gaming and mining card

make specific card for mining

i dont know if that possible

is buying old card that has mined really good? isnt proved mined card lose warranties?
i remember something with MSI if they see card has mined they dont repair.

correct me if i'm wrong