Friday, February 19th 2021

NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Anti-Mining Feature Goes Beyond Driver Version, Could Expand to More SKUs

Yesterday NVIDIA announced the company's first Crypto Mining Processor (CPM) that serves the purpose of having a dedicated processor only for mining with no video outputs. Alongside the new processors, the company has also announced that in the next driver update the GeForce RTX 3060 GPU will get Etherium mining performance halved, limiting the use of this GPU SKU by miners. However, up until now, we have thought that NVIDIA is limiting the mining performance of this card by simply having a driver detect if crypto mining algorithms are in place and limit the performance. However, that doesn't seem to be the case. According to Bryan Del Rizzo, director of global PR for GeForce, more things are working behind the driver.

According to Mr. Del Rizzo: "It's not just a driver thing. There is a secure handshake between the driver, the RTX 3060 silicon, and the BIOS (firmware) that prevents removal of the hash rate limiter." This means that essentially, NVIDIA can find any way to cripple the mining hash rate even if you didn't update your driver version. At the same time, according to Kopite7Kimi, we are possibly expecting to see NVIDIA relaunch its existing SKUs under a different ID, which would feature a built-in anti-crypto mining algorithm. What the company does remains to be seen.
Sources: Bryan Del Rizzo (Twitter), @kopite7kimi (Twitter) #1, @kopite7kimi (Twitter) #2, via VideoCardz
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104 Comments on NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3060 Anti-Mining Feature Goes Beyond Driver Version, Could Expand to More SKUs

#76
Darmok N Jalad
watzupken
And you think they will allocate GPUs for gaming use if they can sell the same GPU for 5K to miners, assuming they can still sell them? Even if they charge the miners double of what they charge consumers, that will already tilt the balance in terms of GPU allocation. I think that will only make the supply issue worst. There is no silver bullet to solving the supply issue unfortunately. If the previous mining boom was any indication, you will probably need to wait for mining bust.
This is my concern as well. By making it relatively easy to decide if a card is for gaming or mining, they become more agile to the market demands, which can make it easier to profit off that demand. To me, there is great potential to do just this, except instead they can charge more for both “product segments.” They target the most lucrative market (mining, when it’s hot) with more supply at higher prices, and then they can turn around a sell to the other market at higher prices as well, since demand will be artificially lower. It ultimately doesn’t fix the core issue—scalpers going in and buying up the supply. Ultimately, it still comes down to being a supply issue, and will that problem ever get solved with such massive and complex GPUs?

Again, I would hope that they are not this short-sighted, as it will take its toll on the gaming community. They’d be biting the hands that fed them in all those pre-mining years.
Posted on Reply
#77
ThrashZone
Hi,
Doubt this has any teeth just a PR damage control attempt, driver actually increases mining performance lol
Posted on Reply
#78
TheoneandonlyMrK
ThrashZone
Hi,
Doubt this has any teeth just a PR damage control attempt, driver actually increases mining performance lol
IMHO this is just misdirection.
Take gaming GPUs, rewrite the bios and reconfigure the card for the best hash rate at the cheapest relative cost then remove any possibility of gaming on them.

Now the same die capacity that made gaming and enterprise GPU also supply a new special line, that doesn't = more cards for gamer's.

They get the bonus that those mining GPU don't flood and saturate a later market.

They get a pr piece to Sound like they give a shit about gamer's.

They get more direct sales that external monitors see less of.

And where will these restrictions take us next, more segregation likely, and they absolutely Won't increase GPU availability to gamer's.

Nvidia's a troll company to me ATM.

And all while suggesting msrps the Aibs struggle to hit and few really see on a market scalped out of existence, shops only have old ,shit runs a screen type cards that can't feasibly run game's.

It really is like these GPU companies are trolling us gamer's.
Posted on Reply
#79
windwhirl
Darmok N Jalad
Ultimately, it still comes down to being a supply issue, and will that problem ever get solved with such massive and complex GPUs?
Unlikely. With GPUs getting even more full of transistors, unless Samsung/TSMC/Micron/SK Hynix really invest a lot in new fabs and/or increasing output in the ones they already have, it's bound to remain an issue.

Even with all that investment actually happening, the extra supply capacity wouldn't be visible until at least a couple of years down the line.

So, I think the scalper problem will be "mitigated" by upping MSRP in general so as to lower the profit those cretins will get out of it (since there is a limit regarding how much a normal customer is willing to pay for a GPU, a higher MSRP would cut margins for scalpers) and get some more money back to the manufacturing chain. Downside would be obviously us having to pay more even if we manage to find a MSRP-priced card.
theoneandonlymrk
IMHO this is just misdirection.
I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't like this.
Posted on Reply
#80
looniam
windwhirl
Unlikely. With GPUs getting even more full of transistors, unless Samsung/TSMC/Micron/SK Hynix really invest a lot in new fabs and/or increasing output in the ones they already have, it's bound to remain an issue.

Even with all that investment actually happening, the extra supply capacity wouldn't be visible until at least a couple of years down the line.

So, I think the scalper problem will be "mitigated" by upping MSRP in general so as to lower the profit those cretins will get out of it (since there is a limit regarding how much a normal customer is willing to pay for a GPU, a higher MSRP would cut margins for scalpers) and get some more money back to the manufacturing chain. Downside would be obviously us having to pay more even if we manage to find a MSRP-priced card.


I'm inclined to agree with you. I don't like this.
its a mistake to use MSRP as some sort of landmark or any metric. MSRPs went out the window looong time ago. the metric to go by is the profitability of mining; nothing else will matter.
Posted on Reply
#81
TheoneandonlyMrK
looniam
its a mistake to use MSRP as some sort of landmark or any metric. MSRPs went out the window looong time ago. the metric to go by is the profitability of mining; nothing else will matter.
Except this thread is about what a manufacturer is allegedly doing to help gamer's and miner's.

No one here has control over the profitability,
Or the MSRP , the companies turned MSRP into a fake FD up selling point often dragged out in pointless arguments not us.

Linus recent video makes me think he's a TPU er like Bret at hotnews , looks like Linus used my earlier post for a script start, in short he agrees.

Nvidia are trolling gamer's asses off with business speak bull that's as transparent as it is commercial in nature.
Posted on Reply
#82
R-T-B
Am*
, please see above. This does nothing to address the real problem -- bots and scalpers, that allowed them to buy multiple GPUs in the first place.
I already stated a proper cart system should be a higher priority, if that's what you are getting at.

Doesn't mean this won't help one side of the problem.
lexluthermiester
Then perhaps it's time to get a Quadro card for compute duties instead of a gaming card as Quadros are better suited for those kinds of tasks anyway..
Goodbye home compute and all the networks that benefitted from it then, I guess?
Posted on Reply
#83
windwhirl
looniam
its a mistake to use MSRP as some sort of landmark or any metric. MSRPs went out the window looong time ago. the metric to go by is the profitability of mining; nothing else will matter.
It's not. MSRP gives us an idea of how much money will go back to manufacturers, who are the ones that set that MSRP in the first place. If MSRP rises sharply (say, the RTX 3090 goes from 1500 to 2500), that will reduce the miner's profit, because they have to pay for that card somehow, and if the card isn't capable of paying for itself in a short enough time, then the miner won't buy it because it's a loss.

Scalpers have a different problem. If the card is expensive enough as it is, then customers will be hardly interested in throwing money at it and say "screw it, I'll keep chugging along with my whatever". Which also means scalpers will be sitting on their cards because no one will buy them at a high price inflated even higher.
Posted on Reply
#84
looniam
windwhirl
It's not. MSRP gives us an idea of how much money will go back to manufacturers, who are the ones that set that MSRP in the first place. If MSRP rises sharply (say, the RTX 3090 goes from 1500 to 2500), that will reduce the miner's profit, because they have to pay for that card somehow, and if the card isn't capable of paying for itself in a short enough time, then the miner won't buy it because it's a loss.

Scalpers have a different problem. If the card is expensive enough as it is, then customers will be hardly interested in throwing money at it and say "screw it, I'll keep chugging along with my whatever". Which also means scalpers will be sitting on their cards because no one will buy them at a high price inflated even higher.
whatever.


scalpers will sell and people are still buying and turning to mining in hopes of recovering some, if not all, the additional cost. its a self perpetuating cycle until the coin(s) go bust.

history shows that.

the market is not dependent on how much or what the manufacturer profits - its what people are willing to pay. end of discussion.
Posted on Reply
#85
r9
This will cause 4 seconds setback to miners that's how long it will take for somebody to find a way to bypass it.
Posted on Reply
#86
hat
Enthusiast
I don't like this idea of artificially gimping any performance for any application. If Nvidia cared about making sure cards get to gamers rather than miners... umm... how about not sending large shipments directly to miners? How about a better checkout system that only allows one card per address per week or something (this should also mitigate the issue of bots buying up all stock like a drop of water hitting the desert ground)?

We know that Nvidia, or any manufacturer really, doesn't care who buys their products, as long as someone buys them. We also know that the 3060, without this limitation, should be able to crank out a hashrate similar to the 3060Ti, and even the 3070. It sounds to me that Nvidia just wants miners to pay higher prices for more expensive hardware, rather than paying for less expensive hardware that performs similarly to more expensive hardware for this very popular application, all while panting a pretty picture for the gullible masses: hey look gamers, we're saving you from the miners by cutting their hashrate in half!
Posted on Reply
#87
lexluthermiester
R-T-B
Goodbye home compute and all the networks that benefitted from it then, I guess?
Possibly. Kinda sucks....

A better solution would be if the government taxed all cryptocoin at 50% per transaction. Wouldn't have to criminalize it unless people tried to dodge the taxes, but the effact would kill it quick... That would be the better solution. It would be drastic, but effective. Cryptocoin is causing more problems than it solves and it's time to stamp it out.
Posted on Reply
#88
windwhirl
lexluthermiester
A better solution would be if the government taxed all cryptocoin at 50% per transaction
I feel that would get shot down quickly because it would be confiscatory. After all, even if the workings are different, at the end of the day a bitcoin transaction is similar to a bank transfer or a cash payment.

And then there's the fact that not all bitcoin wallets are properly identified. So it would leave the problem of jurisdiction on the table too.
Posted on Reply
#89
hat
Enthusiast
windwhirl
I feel that would get shot down quickly because it would be confiscatory. After all, even if the workings are different, at the end of the day a bitcoin transaction is similar to a bank transfer or a cash payment.

And then there's the fact that not all bitcoin wallets are properly identified. So it would leave the problem of jurisdiction on the table too.
Thus far, Bitcoin, at least in the US, has been deemed a "commodity" I believe, not a currency. But I agree with you in that if they tried to tax it at such a level it wouldn't be met without resistance.
Posted on Reply
#90
Am*
lexluthermiester
A better solution would be if the government taxed all cryptocoin at 50% per transaction.
That's the dumbest thing I've read here yet. For someone who claims to "understand how consumer demand and supply chain work" -- you sure sound pretty clueless, buddy....
The entire point of crypto taking off was its USP of being an untaxed and unregulated currency. The only thing your big brained move would do is initiate the creation and move to yet another unregulated crypto -- which take practically no effort to create. It would take the government another several years to take note of it and catch up to it. Again, that's another cat and mouse game you're never going to win. Now allow me to quote your own post from earlier in response:
lexluthermiester
All that shows is that you do not understand how consumer demand and supply chain work.
And on that note -- Linus posted a very good video explaining exactly the same things I've already said here multiple times:
Posted on Reply
#91
efikkan
Am*
And on that note -- Linus posted a very good video explaining exactly the same things I've already said here multiple times:

He is right about most of that, but still fails to hit the nail on the head; the highly likelihood of non-mining workloads getting reduced performance from this.
I'm sure they test many top games to make sure, but there are thousands of games and applications out there.
And what if I make an application or game where I optimize my code so well that it maximizes the utilization of the GPU and the driver think it's mining? (do I de-optimize my code then?)
Posted on Reply
#92
robal
Does anyone remember when the only problem with buying or upgrading a PC was getting some time and money to do it?
I miss those times...
Posted on Reply
#93
lexluthermiester
Am*
That's the dumbest thing I've read here yet. For someone who claims to "understand how consumer demand and supply chain work" -- you sure sound pretty clueless, buddy....
The entire point of crypto taking off was its USP of being an untaxed and unregulated currency. The only thing your big brained move would do is initiate the creation and move to yet another unregulated crypto -- which take practically no effort to create. It would take the government another several years to take note of it and catch up to it. Again, that's another cat and mouse game you're never going to win. Now allow me to quote your own post from earlier in response:
Aww, that was adorable, you and your silly attempts at insults. Reminds me of the fifth-grade... Since you quoted me...
lexluthermiester
A better solution would be
Yup, that's what I said: better. Not the "best" or the "only"...
Am*
And on that note -- Linus posted a very good video explaining exactly the same things I've already said here multiple times:
Just because someone agrees with a few of your points doesn't make either of you absolutely correct.

You're not arguing merit anymore, you're arguing ego...
Posted on Reply
#94
Am*
lexluthermiester
Aww, that was adorable, you and your silly attempts at insults. Reminds me of the fifth-grade... Since you quoted me...


Yup, that's what I said: better. Not the "best" or the "only"...


Just because someone agrees with a few of your points doesn't make either of you absolutely correct.
Good boy -- didn't take you very long to start backpedalling already. Guessing you forgot that you started off with your ad hominem attack when I simply asked you a question -- and now you want to play the victim? That's so cute...
Posted on Reply
#95
95Viper
Stay on topic.
Stop the insults.
Discuss the topic and not each other.

Thank You and Have a Safe Day.
Posted on Reply
#96
lemonadesoda
I do not like this at all. What next? Hardware as a service? HaaS? Pay ngreedier a monthly standing order to “double” the performance, aka, dont pay nvidia and get your hardware crippled.
Posted on Reply
#97
ThrashZone
Hi,
People are already sort of crazy to buy cards with no transferable warranty.
Posted on Reply
#98
Metroid
ThrashZone
Hi,
People are already sort of crazy to buy cards with no transferable warranty.
The are desperate to do something I guess, many are still indoors without nothing to do, this gives them hope which I know it will become despair when all the cryptocoin market crashes hard. It happens every cycle, question is when.
Posted on Reply
#99
lynx29
Metroid
The are desperate to do something I guess, many are still indoors without nothing to do, this gives them hope which I know it will become despair when all the cryptocoin market crashes hard. It happens every cycle, question is when.
the problem is this cycle may not end. it's different this time now that major corporations, paypal, mastercard, and visa all allow crypto now... i'm afraid this is the new normal.
Posted on Reply
#100
nguyen
lynx29
the problem is this cycle may not end. it's different this time now that major corporations, paypal, mastercard, and visa all allow crypto now... i'm afraid this is the new normal.
Jup if I were a hardcore miner I wouldn't stop when the cryto market crash now, who knows when Bitcoin will rebound like it just did.
Posted on Reply
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