zlobbyLike most users have alternatives anyway. But the adoption numbers for Windows 11 speak for themselves.
I can even imagine how it went in M$ after they got the numbers:
- Boss, we implemented all you asked for!
- Did you put unavoidable telemetry?
- Yes!
- Did you put intrusive, unavoidable ads even in the native apps and Start menu?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with drivers?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with UWP and O365 integration?
- And what about the totally uncalled for hardware requirements?
- Totally!
- Then what those ungrateful b****rd want from us?!?!

I'm actually really confused by this list

None of that seems close to reality?
It's like you've collected headlines from clickbait websites without verifying any of it.

Win 11 has telemetry, sure - but that's been a thing since windows 7, if not older.|
I'm on a windows 11 machine right now and i avoid using tweak tools or changing hidden OS settings since they usually go break things, or get reset every major update anyway.
I don't have any ads.
I don't have ANY issues with drivers even on old unsupported hardware like my 4th gen laptop and my 2500K system - windows 7 drivers work fine in 11.

Asking for TPM 2.0 for new systems was fairly resonable, especially sincemicrosoft themselves provided workarounds from day one.


Try facts instead of clickbait, you'll have less things to be angry about and can enjoy life.
Even the ranting and raving about the centered start menu is hilarious because it's HEAPS better on UHD, ultra wide or multi monitor setups. Going back to 10 feels like a nightmare when you have a 4K display and it has a few thousand pixels to traverse to click between your start menu, running programs, and tray icons.

MusselsI'm actually really confused by this list

None of that seems close to reality?
It's like you've collected headlines from clickbait websites without verifying any of it.

Win 11 has telemetry, sure - but that's been a thing since windows 7, if not older.|
I'm on a windows 11 machine right now and i avoid using tweak tools or changing hidden OS settings since they usually go break things, or get reset every major update anyway.
I don't have any ads.
I don't have ANY issues with drivers even on old unsupported hardware like my 4th gen laptop and my 2500K system - windows 7 drivers work fine in 11.

Asking for TPM 2.0 for new systems was fairly resonable, especially sincemicrosoft themselves provided workarounds from day one.


Try facts instead of clickbait, you'll have less things to be angry about and can enjoy life.
Even the ranting and raving about the centered start menu is hilarious because it's HEAPS better on UHD, ultra wide or multi monitor setups. Going back to 10 feels like a nightmare when you have a 4K display and it has a few thousand pixels to traverse to click between your start menu, running programs, and tray icons.

So much misunderstood hate for 11 imo. Never had a single problem since the beta, and that IS the truth. I was on a really pants imo ryyzen 2600x too when i first tried 11, iirc

MusselsI'm actually really confused by this list

None of that seems close to reality?
It's like you've collected headlines from clickbait websites without verifying any of it.

Win 11 has telemetry, sure - but that's been a thing since windows 7, if not older.|
I'm on a windows 11 machine right now and i avoid using tweak tools or changing hidden OS settings since they usually go break things, or get reset every major update anyway.
I don't have any ads.
I don't have ANY issues with drivers even on old unsupported hardware like my 4th gen laptop and my 2500K system - windows 7 drivers work fine in 11.

Asking for TPM 2.0 for new systems was fairly resonable, especially sincemicrosoft themselves provided workarounds from day one.


Try facts instead of clickbait, you'll have less things to be angry about and can enjoy life.
Even the ranting and raving about the centered start menu is hilarious because it's HEAPS better on UHD, ultra wide or multi monitor setups. Going back to 10 feels like a nightmare when you have a 4K display and it has a few thousand pixels to traverse to click between your start menu, running programs, and tray icons.

I'm not angry. Sadly, conveying a feeling or a notion with words usually require more of them. More so, I'm on a mobile and typing on that thing is exhausting.

Here is my reasoning for most of your statements.

Telemetry (or at least the most disturbing types thereof) was pushed to Win 7 retroactively after Win 10 launched.

You not having ads or issues with drivers is a generalization. Not everyone is that lucky and not everyone uses their Windows PC with run-of-the-mill hardware. I for one had a few occasions where hardware vendors identified issues not in their stack but in Windows'.

Also, I've never said Win 11 doesn't have its strong sides. I too have high-res monitors (recently decommissioned my last 1440p); all my TV are 8K; heck even my phones (not the burners ofc) are 4K-ish (the resolution is there but the aspect ratio doesn't make it '4K'). That's why I try not to stare too much into that high-DPI, ~7" screen, not for long forum posts anyway.

My historical dislike of Microsoft's products and practuces can be picked up as a rant, sure. But is that tone really befitting for a mod?

MentalAcetylide"And we just want to punch that MS guy in the face again" - Windows user
Linux or anything not Windows anyone?


Oh they know what they're doing. Their continual reinventing of the Windows OS is so they can continue making money. I'm sure a small part of it is for security purposes, but they like to shuffle shit around and change the processes of doing things so you have to take courses to become "certified" in this or that. Its enough to drive people certifiably insane.

I really like WSL (ironically pronounced as 'weasel') and what it's becoming. I'm just too afraid M$ pulling another EEE on Linux and effectively killing it for good.

I wonder if it will be a free upgrade from Windows 11

MusselsI'm actually really confused by this list

None of that seems close to reality?
It's like you've collected headlines from clickbait websites without verifying any of it.

Win 11 has telemetry, sure - but that's been a thing since windows 7, if not older.|
I'm on a windows 11 machine right now and i avoid using tweak tools or changing hidden OS settings since they usually go break things, or get reset every major update anyway.
I don't have any ads.
I don't have ANY issues with drivers even on old unsupported hardware like my 4th gen laptop and my 2500K system - windows 7 drivers work fine in 11.

Hi,
Win-7 and older was/ is opt in, not opt out and even opt out on 10 & 11-... doesn't really work = basic info yeah okay :laugh:

I do lots of tweaks including most of w1zzards script posted earlier along with explorer patcher to do "should be basic stuff" but aren't yes again win-11 is great :kookoo:
I break what I want to break and call it fixing 10 and now 11
10-11 still update when I want them to that to is a fix not breaking updates :cool:

Maybe this time they might listen to people that actually use windows. Windows 11 was designed by people that never used windows and was more apple users. Lets hide all the deep settings people need to use for domain setups and office computers. Lets just make the interface pretty. Let remove all features power users want. And lets make it more stressfull for System Administrators to find the settings they need to make Windows 11 work. Ok once all that is done release it to public.

ShrekI wonder if it will be a free upgrade from Windows 11

I think it will. Apple has done this since the intro of OSX. These companies make peanuts off of OS sales and if MS had kept it up they would have surely felt the decline. All there money is in cloud, and all there licensing money is from cloud and server licensing.

zlobbyI'm not angry. Sadly, conveying a feeling or a notion with words usually require more of them. More so, I'm on a mobile and typing on that thing is exhausting.

Here is my reasoning for most of your statements.

Telemetry (or at least the most disturbing types thereof) was pushed to Win 7 retroactively after Win 10 launched.

You not having ads or issues with drivers is a generalization. Not everyone is that lucky and not everyone uses their Windows PC with run-of-the-mill hardware. I for one had a few occasions where hardware vendors identified issues not in their stack but in Windows'.

Also, I've never said Win 11 doesn't have its strong sides. I too have high-res monitors (recently decommissioned my last 1440p); all my TV are 8K; heck even my phones (not the burners ofc) are 4K-ish (the resolution is there but the aspect ratio doesn't make it '4K'). That's why I try not to stare too much into that high-DPI, ~7" screen, not for long forum posts anyway.

My historical dislike of Microsoft's products and practuces can be picked up as a rant, sure. But is that tone really befitting for a mod?


I really like WSL (ironically pronounced as 'weasel') and what it's becoming. I'm just too afraid M$ pulling another EEE on Linux and effectively killing it for good.

7 had telemetry from launch, they just added some more later.

And what do they do with that telemetry?
They find out about broken windows updates, what settings users change (how many people DID revert the start menu to the right side, etc)

Paranoia is not a reason to complain about an OS. Go use linux or a properly configured hardware firewall to block things, because minor user level tweaks wont stop any professional levels of 'spying' - but sure, make sure MS cant spookily spy on why your updates failed.

As for the bolded part:
Absolutely.
1. Mods are people too, even when they're Molluscs.
2. That puts more pressure on me to make sure things stay civil and that people don't provide misleading information, otherwise known as trolling. You're welcome to not like 11, or not want to use it - but anyone posting claims that go against common knowledge better have proof to back them up because we crack down on people posting FUD and trolling as we get way too damn much of that in any AMD, Nvidia or Intel news posts.

Looks like they are going the Apple's way. Releasing the same OS over and over again, with minor improvements and added support for newer devices.
On a personal note, I find Win 11 the Windows Me of Windows 98 (Win 10)...

Prima.VeraLooks like they are going the Apple's way. Releasing the same OS over and over again, with minor improvements and added support for newer devices.
On a personal note, I find Win 11 the Windows Me of Windows 98 (Win 10)...

I haven't enjoyed using 11 as much as any OS since NT.
(Rest isn't aimed at you)



Despite some people getting mad that anything at all has changed, the changes are overall for the better - use it for a month to give yourself time to actually FIND the settings and try them out before going back to 11 - it's like iPhone users trying and android and saying the UI is bad and giving up in 5 minutes - if you've learned to do things by muscle memory and habit, it's jarring when things change.

It doesnt mean those changes aren't for the better or new features haven't been added, but you'll never find them if you try and smash the OS with a hammer out of misplaced rage that things aren't the way you learned

The better multi monitor support that doesnt crash games if you disable a screen, letting me real-time move games between monitors at different resolutions and refresh rates, the FAR better built in, system wide dark mode. Snap layouts with 4x applications per monitor is insanely useful, but oh no let's focus on vague fears about being spied on.

The only 'bad' thing about 11 is it feels like it uses way too much RAM, but that's honestly an issue with modern programs more than the OS - 10 and 11 have issues running under 4GB of ram usage, but when background programs like Logitechs G hub, iCue and discord can use 1.5GB of RAM each, that becomes less of an a concern.
The biggest issues people have make clickbait websites, MS checks with insiders and the built in feedback forms to the OS and fixes them. The day one issues and UI complaints have all been fixed and corrected already. Performance issues got fixed. Bugs got fixed. The odd missed rounded corner or UI element from 10? fixed.

MusselsDespite some people getting mad that anything at all has changed, the changes are overall for the better - use it for a month to give yourself time to actually FIND the settings and try them out before going back to 11 - it's like iPhone users trying and android and saying the UI is bad and giving up in 5 minutes - if you've learned to do things by muscle memory and habit, it's jarring when things change.

If you've learned to use things by muscle memory, doesn't that mean that things worked just fine, and they didn't need changing? Why should you re-learn something that doesn't bring any new feature to the table? I mean things like relocating, or replacing the Start menu. It's like replacing the steering wheel of a car with something completely different. What's the point?

Musselslet's focus on vague fears about being spied on.

It is a complicated issue that can't be decided with simply saying whether spying is OK or not. While I think law-abiding citizens should have no reason to fear the OS spying on them, I also think one should have the right to choose what data to share with any company, including the maker of the OS. I agree with you that Microsoft should know why certain updates failed, or why it caused problems on your PC so that they have a better understanding to correct things, but I also think that you should be allowed to choose to share this data at your own will, as you are the owner of your PC and all the software on it. When I buy a pack of batteries, no one wants me to share information on how long they last and in what device. If they ask, that's fine. Sharing data in itself isn't bad, but forcing to share data without a choice is a form of tyranny.

AusWolfas you are the owner of your PC and all the software on it

you actually don't own windows though you only pay for a license to use it
think of it this way. If you buy a bus ticket do then own the bus no you don't you've just a bought a ticket to ride on it that's all

AusWolfIf you've learned to use things by muscle memory, doesn't that mean that things worked just fine, and they didn't need changing? Why should you re-learn something that doesn't bring any new feature to the table? I mean things like relocating, or replacing the Start menu. It's like replacing the steering wheel of a car with something completely different. What's the point?


It is a complicated issue that can't be decided with simply saying whether spying is OK or not. While I think law-abiding citizens should have no reason to fear the OS spying on them, I also think one should have the right to choose what data to share with any company, including the maker of the OS. I agree with you that Microsoft should know why certain updates failed, or why it caused problems on your PC so that they have a better understanding to correct things, but I also think that you should be allowed to choose to share this data at your own will, as you are the owner of your PC and all the software on it. When I buy a pack of batteries, no one wants me to share information on how long they last and in what device. If they ask, that's fine. Sharing data in itself isn't bad, but forcing to share data without a choice is a form of tyranny.

When people say the topic is about being spied on, it's already misleading - because first they have to provide proof of being spied on

It's telemetry. You can sniff the packets and find out what they send and where they get sent to, and you bet your ass if any personal info was sent there would be an insanely large uproar about it, instead of vague wording and clickbait

You agreed to share the telemetry data when you installed the OS, no ones stopping you using linux and WINE.

Can they return the Aero UI design (Windows 7), replacing the minimalistic, limited-colour, flat, ugly UI of the Windows 10?

Will they also activate, finally, the automatic recognition and then fonts/windows/apps setting according to the DPI of the attached monitor?

Windows 7 is faster.
Try to open the Task Manager in Windows 7 and then in Windows 10. Windows 10 is crap slow.

Athloniteyou actually don't own windows though you only pay for a license to use it
think of it this way. If you buy a bus ticket do then own the bus no you don't you've just a bought a ticket to ride on it that's all

That's not a very good analogy. A software licence is not like a bus ticket that you use for one ride and throw away. Like with buying anything else, buyers of software (should) have unlimited control over how they want to use it. Nobody does any telemetry on how I eat the food that I bought at the grocery store. Similarly, nobody (should) do any telemetry on how I use software on my PC without my consent. On Android, you can customize what permissions you give to your apps. I don't see why you couldn't customize permissions for an operating system to do (or not to do) its telemetry.

MusselsWhen people say the topic is about being spied on, it's already misleading - because first they have to provide proof of being spied on

Are you saying that if a software is not telling you that it's spying on you, then it's fine?

MusselsIt's telemetry. You can sniff the packets and find out what they send and where they get sent to, and you bet your ass if any personal info was sent there would be an insanely large uproar about it, instead of vague wording and clickbait

Just like there is no direct proof of the nature of telemetry data (as companies don't have to provide any), there is also no proof that there isn't any personal info involved.

MusselsYou agreed to share the telemetry data when you installed the OS, no ones stopping you using linux and WINE.

I'm not saying that this isn't the case. What I'm saying is that this shouldn't be the case. In a free world, every user should be allowed to choose to consent to telemetry and select what data to submit at their free will. Linux will never support DirectX natively, and their middleware to make it work is kind of hit-and-miss, so I'm stuck with Windows, unfortunately.

Hi,
If 11 is so great why hasn't the usage improved

defaultluser6 months after, its still has zero momentum.

medium.com/geekculture/windows-11-is-officially-a-failure-141c4027a308

www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-11-a-flop-survey-claims-less-than-1-upgraded-microsoft-improves-start-menu.289568/

ATM looks like 11 is tied with win-7 usage and 7 users are supposed to be luddies :laugh:

:roll:

Is Windows 10 the last version of Windows? - Quora

ThrashZoneHi,
If 11 is so great why hasn't the usage improved



www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/windows-11-a-flop-survey-claims-less-than-1-upgraded-microsoft-improves-start-menu.289568/

ATM looks like 11 is tied with win-7 usage and 7 users are supposed to be luddies :laugh:

Yeah, aren't graphs supposed to keep going down for the previous OS release? LOL

What an embarrassing uptick in win 10 usage! They went from windows 7 to ten.

defaultluserYeah, aren't graphs supposed to keep going down for the previous OS release? LOL

What an embarrassing uptick in win 10 usage! They went from windows 7 to ten.

Well, this is the result of Microsoft's own shooting in its feet. They should be very careful about what they talk and to be protected from being paid by someone to mislead them and release a new version which is not ready for the market.

Windows 11 has very harsh system requirements and is obviously a no-go for the majority of users.

ARF:roll:

Is Windows 10 the last version of Windows? - Quora

Boy, that didn't age well.

MusselsWhen people say the topic is about being spied on, it's already misleading - because first they have to provide proof of being spied on

It's telemetry. You can sniff the packets and find out what they send and where they get sent to, and you bet your ass if any personal info was sent there would be an insanely large uproar about it, instead of vague wording and clickbait

You agreed to share the telemetry data when you installed the OS, no ones stopping you using linux and WINE.

Right! You can sniff encrypted packets, too?
Plus, many domain names used by Win 11 are also used for many purposes, so you can't just filter telemetry without breaking other functionality.

Also, I didn't pay $200/PC (yes, I did) for Win 11 just to see ads that I can't control, or get apps that I don't initially want. Heck, if I wanted NF, Spotify, Solitare, etc. I'd just go and download them. I don't need to constantly get rid of them after Win 11 decides it's time to shove them in my face again.

AusWolfCapitalism used to be about companies trying their best to do what users want. Nowadays it's more about companies shoving what they want down on users' throats in the most creative ways.

Its a trend in so much modern software now days.

1. Remember when it just used to be "no" or "never" to turn a feature off but now its "not for now" or "maybe later", and thats if you lucky, its becoming more common now to just force things without an option.
2. Remember when pagination was standard.
3. Remember when was no algorithms in what you searched for, but now likes/dislikes promoted content etc. get put on top of results.
4. Remember when software wasnt nagware.
5. Remember when selecting "keep me logged in" meant exactly that but now on many sites and apps its basically a dont log me out immediately feature instead.
6. Remember when the video you wanted to watch played and that was it (maybe with some ads), but now on many sites, you load the home page, a video starts autoplaying and when it finishes that isnt enough, another starts right after it, and then another, and another and so on.
   
   I asked about some of these things on a dev subreddit and was pretty much confirmed this stuff is done as it increases takeup of said features, and they didnt care if that was done via forcing content on people rather than someone choosing to do so, justified by their bosses asking them to do it. Everything is getting much more cut throat now. and of course telemetry the evil that allows them to concentrate on whats most profitable.

zlobbyI'm not angry. Sadly, conveying a feeling or a notion with words usually require more of them. More so, I'm on a mobile and typing on that thing is exhausting.

Here is my reasoning for most of your statements.

Telemetry (or at least the most disturbing types thereof) was pushed to Win 7 retroactively after Win 10 launched.

You not having ads or issues with drivers is a generalization. Not everyone is that lucky and not everyone uses their Windows PC with run-of-the-mill hardware. I for one had a few occasions where hardware vendors identified issues not in their stack but in Windows'.

Also, I've never said Win 11 doesn't have its strong sides. I too have high-res monitors (recently decommissioned my last 1440p); all my TV are 8K; heck even my phones (not the burners ofc) are 4K-ish (the resolution is there but the aspect ratio doesn't make it '4K'). That's why I try not to stare too much into that high-DPI, ~7" screen, not for long forum posts anyway.

My historical dislike of Microsoft's products and practuces can be picked up as a rant, sure. But is that tone really befitting for a mod?


I really like WSL (ironically pronounced as 'weasel') and what it's becoming. I'm just too afraid M$ pulling another EEE on Linux and effectively killing it for good.

Yeah, makes me think of that one song from Third Bass "Pop Goes the Weasel" with the stunts MS pulls.

Hope its better then 7 and DEFINITLY better then 11, I loved 7 and 11 is just poo poo