ChomiqYou only had it when you used something like Norton Commander.


That's why I still prefer using something like Double Commander in W10 instead of file explorer.

You're right, it's just that for me DOS was equivalent to NC, cause noone of sound mind would just use the black command screen for everyday work/entertainment. :)

Man Machine Interface is what an OS is supposed to be. Microsoft seems to be more interested in developing value-added "shiny" crap than actual kernel / HAL improvement. Bring on Windows 12...13 (oh skip that version due to superstition)... 14... 15... I won't be using them.

2015: "Windows 10 marks the end of new releases! SaaS is the way to go! Only updates from here on out!"

2021: "Windows 11 is the new, MODERN operating system and DEMANDS supah high security hardware. Windows 10? Wack. Now where's your TPM 2.0??"

2024: "Windows 12 is bringing the PC back for real this time! Forget all that crap we said earlier! New UI! Retooled updates! Faster, more intense!"

Yeesh Manicsoft, tell your product designer to lay off the coke. My Win10 install USB is practically still warm, why all this?

Mysteoa"We just want to change the interface again" - MS guy

"And we just want to punch that MS guy in the face again" - Windows user
Linux or anything not Windows anyone?

timta2I personally find this hilarious, on so many different levels. They really have no idea what they are doing.

Oh they know what they're doing. Their continual reinventing of the Windows OS is so they can continue making money. I'm sure a small part of it is for security purposes, but they like to shuffle shit around and change the processes of doing things so you have to take courses to become "certified" in this or that. Its enough to drive people certifiably insane.

They are going to, finally.

I am past giving a sh1t tbh I can use any back to year dot and don't mind progress either, it can't get much worse though right, I mean tbf I got used to 10 then 11 and it's all good given time.

Mysteoa"We just want to change the interface again" - MS guy

They did with 11 and it's friggin retarded, put the W 7 GUI back and leave it alone!

Instead of releasing new windows to keep changing the UI as they just cant make their mind up on it, they could just make it configurable.

big/small padding
start box/start menu
quick launch/no quick launch

Analysing Windows 95 onwards its so much going backwards and forwards, they release a feature, they then ditch the feature, they readd it, they ditch it again. Then there is the reactionary changes by copying stuff from iOS. Windows UI peaked around Vista/7, Vista was very good including remembering window positions built in but 7 did add snapping which is awesome, after that its regressed.

Windows 11 it would seem internally is already probably considered a flop by MS, and so I can see myself going straight to 12 from 10, as the 10 EOL is after the leaked release date.

This is completely normal, as 11 is at best a repeat of 8/8.1.
The actual usable release has been every another version since XP.

Interested to know how many people whining about this are using windows. Maybe you should be using Linux instead(good luck with that)

I personally have no problem with 11, and have not had a single BSOD since i started using it from the beta. You just need to work around the changes you don't like, i am using startallback, or use linux instead if it bothers you that much.

windwhirlWindows 11 is the only one to break this tradition because Microsoft had not planned to make new major versions anymore. Until they changed their minds.

Microsoft never said that. It was one tweet from one employee.

JermelescuMicrosoft never said that. It was one tweet from one employee.

Say what? Be more specific.

TiggerInterested to know how many people whining about this are using windows. Maybe you should be using Linux instead(good luck with that)

I personally have no problem with 11, and have not had a single BSOD since i started using it from the beta. You just need to work around the changes you don't like, i am using startallback, or use linux instead if it bothers you that much.

Ok so using Win10 isnt an option then?

TiggerInterested to know how many people whining about this are using windows. Maybe you should be using Linux instead(good luck with that)

And people aren't allowed to complain about their everyday OS changing the UX for what they think it's worse? :kookoo:

My point being the hypocrisy, and i did say "whining about using windows" not win 10 or 11. If something was that bad, i would not use it. Do you carry on doing so because it is not that bad and you just like to bitch, or because there is no option but to use it. I just don't get all the whining, win 11 or 10 are not that bad.

Personally i will be looking forward to 12, and will more than likely jump on the beta as soo as i can. It's not even out yet and there are whiners, jeez.

Also if you don't like what i have to say /ignore me i won't whine about it i promise.

TiggerMy point being the hypocrisy, and i did say "whining about using windows" not win 10 or 11. If something was that bad, i would not use it. Do you carry on doing so because it is not that bad and you just like to bitch, or because there is no option but to use it. I just don't get all the whining, win 11 or 10 are not that bad.

Personally i will be looking forward to 12, and will more than likely jump on the beta as soo as i can. It's not even out yet and there are whiners, jeez.

Also if you don't like what i have to say /ignore me i won't whine about it i promise.

Well that just seems odd, so you saying if I think part of a product is flawed I simply shouldnt use it?

To be fair thats whats happening anyway, I am not using Windows 11. But it seems odd to have such a black and white outlook in that I either must adore the product or not use it.

chrcolukWell that just seems odd, so you saying if I think part of a product is flawed I simply shouldnt use it?

To be fair thats whats happening anyway, I am not using Windows 11. But it seems odd to have such a black and white outlook in that I either must adore the product or not use it.

No, not exactly, i did say-You just need to work around the changes you don't like, or are you forgetting that. My point is people acting like windows be it 10 or 11 is a pile of crap, yet still use it when they don't have to. Change what you don't like if you can, i did not say adore or don't use, you are putting words in my mouth.

zlobbyActually, their isea was to have just 'Windows', without any numbering whatsoever.

In the end, it was a stupid idea. Even today someone saying they are running Windows 10 doesn't give an indication if that Windows 10 installation is updated, or just running without updates for the last 7 years.
Also plain Windows or even Windows 10 would sound old after a few years to people who are used to having their applications and other OSes, like Android, keep increasing their version number after frequent updates.

john_In the end, it was a stupid idea. Even today someone saying they are running Windows 10 doesn't give an indication if that Windows 10 installation is updated, or just running without updates for the last 7 years.
Also plain Windows or even Windows 10 would sound old after a few years to people who are used to having their applications and other OSes, like Android, keep increasing their version number after frequent updates.

Oh, but I agree. I was merely stating that this was their intention at some point.

Vista to 7, 8 to 10, 11 to 12. I only hope that the new Fluent UI has a much more compact rendering option closer to Win32 controls. I don't like having unnecessarily large text with unnecessarily large amount of empty border space. I'm using a PC with a 32inch screen, not a phone with a 6 inch screen.

So they want to fuck version numbers into meaningless mess, following Mozilla with what they did with Firefox? Good job, idiots.

OctopussSo they want to fuck version numbers into meaningless mess, following Mozilla with what they did with Firefox? Good job, idiots.

Like most users have alternatives anyway. But the adoption numbers for Windows 11 speak for themselves.
I can even imagine how it went in M$ after they got the numbers:
- Boss, we implemented all you asked for!
- Did you put unavoidable telemetry?
- Yes!
- Did you put intrusive, unavoidable ads even in the native apps and Start menu?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with drivers?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with UWP and O365 integration?
- And what about the totally uncalled for hardware requirements?
- Totally!
- Then what those ungrateful b****rd want from us?!?!

zlobbyLike most users have alternatives anyway. But the adoption numbers for Windows 11 speak for themselves.
I can even imagine how it went in M$ after they got the numbers:
- Boss, we implemented all you asked for!
- Did you put unavoidable telemetry?
- Yes!
- Did you put intrusive, unavoidable ads even in the native apps and Start menu?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with drivers?
- Yes!
- Did you make a complete mess with UWP and O365 integration?
- And what about the totally uncalled for hardware requirements?
- Totally!
- Then what those ungrateful b****rd want from us?!?!

Capitalism used to be about companies trying their best to do what users want. Nowadays it's more about companies shoving what they want down on users' throats in the most creative ways.

AusWolfCapitalism used to be about companies trying their best to do what users want. Nowadays it's more about companies shoving what they want down on users' throats in the most creative ways.

I'd say nowadays it's companies wanting only money, and money alone. Shoving stuff in users' throats is just a byproduct of how stupid (most of the) users are.
Disclaimer here - a darn monopolies are really hard even on the smart(er) users, although letting monopolies happen in a first place is entirely users' fault, so we are going full circle. Only this time the smart(er) users have no critical mass to change anything, or at least not without a significant effort and cost.

zlobbyI'd say nowadays it's companies wanting only money, and money alone. Shoving stuff in users' throats is just a byproduct of how stupid (most of the) users are.
Disclaimer here - a darn monopolies are really hard even on the smart(er) users, although letting monopolies happen in a first place is entirely users' fault, so we are going full circle. Only this time the smart(er) users have no critical mass to change anything, or at least not without a significant effort and cost.

I partly agree. Monopolies are users' fault in cases like Nvidia, where most people would just not buy anything else even for a significant discount because they've bought into "the way it's meant to be played". On the other hand, it's not users' fault in cases like Microsoft and Windows, which has always been and will always be the only OS that supports DirectX. If you play games, you can try your luck with Proton on Linux, and pray that it works, or just use Windows with no middleware.

jeremyshawThat would be nice. Full UI upgrade back to Win7, with much of the underhood improvements of Win8/10. Stuff like the current Task Manager are quite nice (Win11 is trying an even newer one). Stuff like two different control panels, nested within each other and exposed through context menus?

Touchscreen support is okay, I guess, but I still have never liked it enough to care - I used two generations of Surface tablets, along with earlier touchscreen PCs like the OQO. Still use touchscreens at work, and never has the Win8 "touchscreen UI" part ever helped. It's always the little Explorer tweaks for touchscreens (checkboxes, long press, better on screen KB, etc) that were the most beneficial, and these were in Win7, with parts in Vista and XP.

Full upgrade all the way back to Windows ME then!

Tropick2015: "Windows 10 marks the end of new releases! SaaS is the way to go! Only updates from here on out!"

2021: "Windows 11 is the new, MODERN operating system and DEMANDS supah high security hardware. Windows 10? Wack. Now where's your TPM 2.0??"

2024: "Windows 12 is bringing the PC back for real this time! Forget all that crap we said earlier! New UI! Retooled updates! Faster, more intense!"

Yeesh Manicsoft, tell your product designer to lay off the coke. My Win10 install USB is practically still warm, why all this?

You have to keep in mind that Microsoft focuses on the corporate side first. A lot of the stupid stuff in Vista made sense on the corporate side. Likewise corporations did move to surface and touch devices especially for executives. The stupid stuff in Windows 11. Well it looks like Mac OS because everyone coming through STEM in college now a days uses a mac. Schools use apple products now. That TPM crap is now mandatory at most corporations and is starting to be at educational places as well.

So we get OS release and then fix issues with new. But ever since NT it's been a corporate product.