Thursday, March 28th 2024

PGL Investigating GeForce RTX 4080 GPU Driver Crash, Following Esports Event Disruption

The Professional Gamers League (PGL) showcased its newly upgraded tournament rig specification prior to the kick-off of their (still ongoing) CS2 Major Copenhagen 2024 esports event. As reported, over a week ago, competitors have been treated to modern systems decked out with AMD's popular gaming-oriented Ryzen 7 7800X3D CPU and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4080 graphics cards, while BenQ's ZOWIE XL2566K 24.5" 360 Hz gaming monitor delivers a superfast visual feed. A hefty chunk of change has been spent on new hardware, but expensive cutting-edge tech can falter. Virtus.pro team member—Jame—experienced a major software crash during a match against rival group, G2.

PCGamesN noted that this frustrating incident ended the affected team's chance to grab a substantial cash reward. Their report put a spotlight on this unfortunate moment: "in the second round of a best of three, Virtus Pro were a few rounds away from qualifying for the playoffs, only for their aspirations to be squashed through no fault of their own...Jame experiences a graphics card driver crash that irrecoverably steers the round in G2's favor, culminating in Virtus Pro losing the match 11-13. Virtus Pro would then go on to lose the subsequent tie-break match as the round was not replayed. In effect, the graphics card driver crash partly cost the team their chance at winning an eventual $1.25 million prize pool." PGL revealed, via a social media post, that officials are doing some detective work: "we wish to clarify the situation involving Jame during the second map, Inferno, in the series against G2. A technical malfunction occurred due to an NVIDIA driver crash, resulting in a game crash. We are continuing our investigation into the matter." The new tournament rigs were "meticulously optimized" and tested in the weeks leading up to CS2 Major Copenhagen 2024—it is believed that the driver crash was a random anomaly. PGL and NVIDIA are currently working on a way to "identify and fix the issue."
HLTVorg conducted a post-match interview with Jame (Virtus Pro):

Sources: PCGamesN, Wccftech, PGL Tweet
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39 Comments on PGL Investigating GeForce RTX 4080 GPU Driver Crash, Following Esports Event Disruption

#26
trsttte
Lol, should have used enterprise GPU's with ECC memory :D

It sucks it might have cost them the win but shit happens, it's consumer hardware what were they expecting!?
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#27
R-T-B
DavenActually that’s exactly what they are saying. The delusion is high.
I have literally never seen that beyond obvious trolls.
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#28
umeng2002
If they were serious about stability, they would under-clock everything. Even then, as pointed out, solar flares. Run the game on a server processor with ECC memory. Get nVidia™ to enable ECC on the VRAM. Maybe even shielding the cases or building from high energy particles.

But no, the selection of hardware is just another ad space.
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#29
mechtech
Crashes happen.

But when money (potential) is involved..............stuff gets real!! ;)
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#30
Camm
trsttteLol, should have used enterprise GPU's with ECC memory :D

It sucks it might have cost them the win but shit happens, it's consumer hardware what were they expecting!?
4090's can enable ECC. Not sure if it would have saved the crash in this instance, but it could have helped.
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#31
efikkan
umeng2002If they were serious about stability, they would under-clock everything. Even then, as pointed out, solar flares. Run the game on a server processor with ECC memory. Get nVidia™ to enable ECC on the VRAM. Maybe even shielding the cases or building from high energy particles.
Like bit-flips from cosmic radiation during a time span of a few minutes would matter. :rolleyes:
Sounds fairly far fetched compared to other risks.

But what they could do is at least run the games on Linux (for the games which supports it), which is a much more stable OS than Windows, not to mention Nvidia's Linux driver is in all seriousness even more solid than their Windows counterpart. :cool:
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#32
trsttte
umeng2002Run the game on a server processor with ECC memory. Get nVidia™ to enable ECC on the VRAM
They woundn't even need server/workstation processors necessarily since they're using ryzen, and even with Intel they would just need to look for workstation grade boards (which wouldn't be that more expensive than the 600$+ top of the line motherboards they're probably using for looks and flair)
Camm4090's can enable ECC. Not sure if it would have saved the crash in this instance, but it could have helped.
They're using 4080's, but 4090's come with ECC but with the error correction disabled!? That's so fucking stupid, they payed for the premium memory and simply disabled it out of spite? :wtf:
efikkanLike bit-flips from cosmic radiation during a time span of a few minutes would matter. :rolleyes:
Sounds fairly far fetched compared to other risks.
It's not just solar flares, on a live event environment like a stadium or whatever there's many sources of electric noise that is enough to push something that would otherwise be stable to crash. Even alone at home, ECC is the better solution if you're looking for stability and it's sad that thanks to mainly Intel this got mostly gatekeeped to workstations when it should be a standard feature.
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#33
efikkan
trsttteIt's not just solar flares, on a live event environment like a stadium or whatever there's many sources of electric noise that is enough to push something that would otherwise be stable to crash.
Even if the entire audience brings 10 cell phones each, the distance is going to make the electromagnetic noise from these insignificant in this regard. Anything that does have an affect must be very close and have a strong field.
trsttteEven alone at home, ECC is the better solution if you're looking for stability and it's sad that thanks to mainly Intel this got mostly gatekeeped to workstations when it should be a standard feature.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of ECC, and would strongly consider it for anything productive.
But the chances of ECC preventing crashes like this in this time frame is very unlikely.

There are much that could be hardened on the software side though, including drivers, the OS and how drivers work in Windows, and of course the games themselves (speaking generally, not this case specifically).
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#34
trsttte
efikkanEven if the entire audience brings 10 cell phones each, the distance is going to make the electromagnetic noise from these insignificant in this regard. Anything that does have an affect must be very close and have a strong field.
The biggest problem is not cell phones, is all the lighting around the stage for example.

Of course a computer can crash for many and any number of reasons, but if they're doing a live event with money involved they should be using enterprise workstation gear, not consumer grade gaming stuff. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
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#35
watzupken
efikkanWhenever my PC crashes, I always call Jensen Huang personally, and demand he tells me why it crashed. And that he brings his leather jacket and fixes it immediately! :rolleyes:
(sarcasm)

So a PC crashed during a tournament, this happens all the time…


Depends on whether the problem is reproducible or not. If it is, and only on this particular PC, then it's a hardware issue. The organizers must be professional enough to have an image for the software setup for all the tournament PCs, so configuration issues should be eliminated. And they probably have spares if one fails.
If the hardware is not at fault, then it could be either the driver or a bug in the OS.
Either way, if this is an obscure and hard to reproduce bug, then I doubt the dumps from the BSOD is going to result in something useful.
To be objective, I don't disagree with what you said. A PC will crash for many reasons and in this case, it may be due to other factors that eventually caused the GPU to crash. I mean they confirmed that GPU crashed, so I am going along with the narrative. However, this is where I find very disturbing. Because when there is news of AMD GPU crash, the blame will immediately be on AMD. So not sure what is the difference here? In other word, AMD GPU/ driver crash = AMD is bad, while Nvidia GPU/ driver crash = must be other factors. See the hypocrisy here? Not directing this at you, but this is the general observation of people's reaction to these sorts of news.
umeng2002If they were serious about stability, they would under-clock everything. Even then, as pointed out, solar flares. Run the game on a server processor with ECC memory. Get nVidia™ to enable ECC on the VRAM. Maybe even shielding the cases or building from high energy particles.

But no, the selection of hardware is just another ad space.
There is no perfection. You can do and plan the best that you can, but that does not mean it will go according to plan. Case in point here where they have "optimized" the PCs, but there is really nothing you can do when you don't know what will go wrong.
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#36
efikkan
watzupkenBecause when there is news of AMD GPU crash, the blame will immediately be on AMD. So not sure what is the difference here? In other word, AMD GPU/ driver crash = AMD is bad, while Nvidia GPU/ driver crash = must be other factors. See the hypocrisy here? Not directing this at you, but this is the general observation of people's reaction to these sorts of news.
Please stop it with the straw man argument here. I've seen no one seriously making that argument, so there is no hypocrisy here.
It would be different if the article were phrased in a way to excuse Nvidia, but it isn't, in fact it only focuses on the possibility of the driver being responsible. So again, no hypocrisy.

There are three factors that could make the driver crash; the driver, the hardware or the OS. And this holds true for all GPU vendors. Notice I'm not listing the game, as a driver should handle a "misbehaving" application, so if a driver crashes due to a game bug, it's still a driver bug.

And I also still think this isn't newsworthy regardless, a PC crashed randomly during gaming, wow!
(If it happened during a special presentation, it would have been a little funny though.)
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#37
trsttte
efikkanAnd I also still think this isn't newsworthy regardless, a PC crashed randomly during gaming, wow!
(If it happened during a special presentation, it would have been a little funny though.)
That's a classic and to be fair I don't even know if the drop in market value of Microsoft at the time isn't bigger than the prize money of this competition :D

But that's the thing, when there's money involved the stakes are much higher
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#38
umeng2002
Just highlights the difference between general computing, servers with failover, and life-critical computing for an airliner or chemotherapy machine.

The way consumer hardware and software is designed, bugs are an annoyance, not a mission critical event.
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#39
xorbe
I feel like a PC crash outside of the player's control should not impact the results. Should require a rematch. Or a game that has proper multi-player checkpoint that can be restarted when >$1M is on the line.
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