Leviathan rising.

Couldn’t they just made a socket that had 3000 or so points which could be addressed in later generations?

Sol_BadguyLeviathan rising.

Interesting analogy...

From Wikipedia: "Leviathan is often an embodiment of chaos, threatening to eat the damned when their lives are over"

I'm not sure I want my CPU to be doing that...we've had enough Spectres in our CPUs already...

kondaminCouldn’t they just made a socket that had 3000 or so points which could be addressed in later generations?

Yes but I can think of a few of reasons not to:

• It would add extra cost with immediate benefit...and I imagine they are going to try and keep the costs down to maximise the profit as much as possible which is harder to do in the current climate
• It would break the compatibility with existing coolers
• It would limit the flexibility of choice for motherboard makers (like how we don't see any Threadripper ITX builds...)
• It might increase the amount of EMC/noise the CPU is subject to so would require careful consideration as to treat the unused pins (hold at ground/high impedance/etc) (i.e., it might effect stability)
• It would reduce their opportunity to sell you a nice shiny new motherboard setup in a couple of years time.

Hopefully this will land when prices are good and I can look at using it in my next PC for a complete re-build...otherwise I'll just be upgrading the CPU in my current one...

kondaminCouldn’t they just made a socket that had 3000 or so points which could be addressed in later generations?

No, because Intel enjoys changing sockets every generation and fillings its motherboard partners pockets. Hope Nova Lake at least delivers more performance rather than less.

btarunrDespite the significant change in socket design, LGA1954 is expected to retain cooler compatibility with the current LGA1851 and previous LGA1700, which means your CPU coolers purchased way back in 2021 could be reused for the next-generation processors.

Niiiice, I dig the idea of not needing new cooling. Sure Intel sockets change a little... aggressively for the average consumer, but this is a silver lining for now. :laugh:

Is Nova Lake the one with Unified Core and Rentable Units or the next one?

Sol_BadguyLeviathan rising.

If Nova Lake is not the next one having Unified Core & Rentable Units, then it's just bullshit.
From what I know, the next Intel's Sandy Bridge moment will come only when they come with Rentable Units and Unified Cores, so skip Nova Lake.

IntelkoIs Nova Lake the one with Unified Core and Rentable Units or the next one?


If Nova Lake is not the next one having Unified Core & Rentable Units, then it's just bullshit.
From what I know, the next Intel's Sandy Bridge moment will come only when they come with Rentable Units and Unified Cores, so skip Nova Lake.

no that project was scrapped when jim Keller left.

@Intelko

No.

Per MLID leaks Nova Lake and Razer Lake will still have P+E.
For desktop Hammer Lake (the third and last LGA1954 arch) will bring unified cores and HT.

"The 2L ILM design allows for a more uniform retention of the ILM brace against the processor package."

Why not just use a contact frame? Wouldn't it be better and cheaper for manufacture?

IntelkoIf Nova Lake is not the next one having Unified Core & Rentable Units, then it's just bullshit.
From what I know, the next Intel's Sandy Bridge moment will come only when they come with Rentable Units and Unified Cores, so skip Nova Lake.

Nova Lake will be a huge step up, regardless of the outdated bias of some against E-cores. There will be unified cores again with Hammer Lake or what not, which will be great, but all of the information we have shows even Skymont E-cores are no longer a laughing matter. Arctic Wolf E-cores will be bringing even more significant IPC gains (apparently 30%), as well as a doubling of both P and E-cores and the reenabling of AVX-512 throgh AVX 10.2. I would not be surprised that Arctic Wolf E-cores have IPC between Zen 5 and Zen 6. Nova Lake is looking to be a major comeback on its own.

ThomasKNo, because Intel enjoys changing sockets every generation and fillings its motherboard partners pockets. Hope Nova Lake at least delivers more performance rather than less.

Arrow Lake did deliver more performance in productivity and compute than Raptor Lake, only in gaming it suffered. Arrow Lake Refresh fixed a majority of that deficit, though I think it is criminal no major YouTuber did reviews including a tuned Arrow Lake CPU with OC'd D2D as the gains are impressive from what I have see. Easily beating Raptor Lake.

XeonsNOpteronsNova Lake will be a huge step up, regardless of the outdated bias of some against E-cores. There will be unified cores again with Hammer Lake or what not, which will be great, but all of the information we have shows even Skymont E-cores are no longer a laughing matter. Arctic Wolf E-cores will be bringing even more significant IPC gains (apparently 30%), as well as a doubling of both P and E-cores and the reenabling of AVX-512 throgh AVX 10.2. I would not be surprised that Arctic Wolf E-cores have IPC between Zen 5 and Zen 6. Nova Lake is looking to be a major comeback on its own.


Arrow Lake did deliver more performance in productivity and compute than Raptor Lake, only in gaming it suffered. Arrow Lake Refresh fixed a majority of that deficit, though I think it is criminal no major YouTuber did reviews including a tuned Arrow Lake CPU with OC'd D2D as the gains are impressive from what I have see. Easily beating Raptor Lake.

Some did and it didn't provide anything worth bragging about unless you consider 2-4% noteworthy.

XeonsNOpteronsNova Lake will be a huge step up

Realistically speaking, a step up means nothing after years of failures and stagnation.
I expect a breakthrough even bigger than Sandy Bridge, so if you're smart then skip the coming bollocks that Intel wants to sell you.

IntelkoRealistically speaking, a step up means nothing after years of failures and stagnation.
I expect a breakthrough even bigger than Sandy Bridge, so if you're smart then skip the coming bollocks that Intel wants to sell you.

If you expect to be disappointed you probably will find a way to be.

I'll probably buy one and be happy. 🤷‍♂️

Nova Lake could entice me back to Intel if it is good enough. can't wait to see how it does.

I would not mix AVX 10.2 with AVX512. Different name and different instructin set. Intel could stick to the common standard which they had for a few weeks on some intel 12th generation core processors.

I discussed and checked several times that topic with others. intel drops and changes always avx 10.2. for myself i came to teh conclusion after reading intel spec paper with avx 10.2 from different dated specification, that is a hoax and not fully specified. intel dropped several times some stuff. i can not take it serious anymore. changing stuff after a year, several years does not make it a proper specification. avx512 is well specified and it works in the field. code is written for it and it is already in use.

glen-the-greyI'll probably buy one and be happy. 🤷‍♂️

Apple Silicon dominates everyone also because of this non-partitioned UMA thing, but people like you throw money at stuff that isn't worth a bucket of manure.
Well, maybe this was the reason for Intel's stagnation?
After all, people always bought their stuff without ever expecting something better.

P.S: Nvidia's Spark SoC, or whatever its name is, is delusional in the same way as everything else that is not like Apple Silicon that has the full non-partitioned UMA.

IntelkoApple Silicon dominates everyone also because of this non-partitioned UMA thing, but people like you throw money at stuff that isn't worth a bucket of manure.
Well, maybe this was the reason for Intel's stagnation?
After all, people always bought their stuff without ever expecting something better.

P.S: Nvidia's Spark SoC, or whatever its name is, is delusional in the same way as everything else that is not like Apple Silicon that has the full non-partitioned UMA.

Buckets of manure are useful and valuable things.

Broken ProcessorSome did and it didn't provide anything worth bragging about unless you consider 2-4% noteworthy.

I suggest looking up Skatterbenchers reviews. He is getting up to 24% higher FPS in CS2 and about 10% higher in Wukong and Returnal. Not insignificant.

IntelkoApple Silicon dominates everyone also because of this non-partitioned UMA thing, but people like you throw money at stuff that isn't worth a bucket of manure.
Well, maybe this was the reason for Intel's stagnation?
After all, people always bought their stuff without ever expecting something better.

P.S: Nvidia's Spark SoC, or whatever its name is, is delusional in the same way as everything else that is not like Apple Silicon that has the full non-partitioned UMA.

Apple silicon is a little overrated, only really good for laptop chips. Lack of AVX-512 is a huge deficit to Apple and Nvidia CPUs as it is far more efficient at calculations in complex computational tasks than SSE or AVX2. People, unfortunately even Linus Torvald, do not understand that AVX-512 draws more power at the same clock speed, but once you power equalize to AVX2 or SSE by lowering clocks, it outputs far higher performance. There is a reason AMD enabled AVX-512 on architectures Zen 4 and newer. Do not get me wrong, Apple silicon is very good though.

ThomasKNo, because Intel enjoys changing sockets every generation and fillings its motherboard partners pockets. Hope Nova Lake at least delivers more performance rather than less.

Honest to god I think I would rather they change sockets every three years versus what AMD's planning to do with X970E... That plan being a rebadged X670E with CUDIMM support :banghead:

IntelkoIs Nova Lake the one with Unified Core and Rentable Units or the next one?


If Nova Lake is not the next one having Unified Core & Rentable Units, then it's just bullshit.
From what I know, the next Intel's Sandy Bridge moment will come only when they come with Rentable Units and Unified Cores, so skip Nova Lake.

Rentable units getting scrapped is seriously so tragic.

XeonsNOpteronsI suggest looking up Skatterbenchers reviews. He is getting up to 24% higher FPS in CS2 and about 10% higher in Wukong and Returnal. Not insignificant.

There are always fringe cases and I'm not sure I'd count Skatterbencher as an typical benchmark result considering he overclocked the snot out of the CPU to 5.8ghz with very good hardware on custom WC.

Rover4444Honest to god I think I would rather they change sockets every three years versus what AMD's planning to do with X970E... That plan being a rebadged X670E with CUDIMM support :banghead:

Rentable units getting scrapped is seriously so tragic.

Nah, it's making simple things more complex than they need to be.
Itanium failed, transmeta failed and bulldozer nearly killed AMD.

keeping cores on a processor a single variant is the best way forward.
software optimisation would take many years and it won't be worth it for most tasks anyway.

Rover4444Honest to god I think I would rather they change sockets every three years versus what AMD's planning to do with X970E... That plan being a rebadged X670E with CUDIMM support :banghead:

What does that have to do with supporting the same socket/platform for longer than a generation and leaving the customer to decide whether to upgrade a CPU without throwing your motherboard in the trash?

kondaminCouldn’t they just made a socket that had 3000 or so points which could be addressed in later generations?

Such a good idea, they could have bios updates to support more features. I got screwed over by LGA 1851.

ThomasKWhat does that have to do with supporting the same socket/platform for longer than a generation and leaving the customer to decide whether to upgrade a CPU without throwing your motherboard in the trash?

Some feeling like they need the latest features on a motherboard, yet PCI-e 5.0 offers little benefit aside from storage in some very niche use cases, GPU's are fine on PCI-e 4.0.

Okay I'll play the tenth man.

After thinking about it, I would say that Nova Lake is a missed opportunity.
Yes even if it wins, it's still a missed opportunity.
Here's why:

The flagship will have a large number of cores thus it will have some workstation-esque potential, at least in some regards, of course product segmentation will ensure it doesn't encroach (too much?) on hardcore workstation territory.
But nevertheless the connectivity and expansion potential (using a Z990) is shaping up to be pretty impressive.
And compared to the preceding CPUs it seems like it would be on a next level.

The memory config is the biggest weakness in my view.
Dual channel with 8000 MT/s (UDIMM) rating is quite unbalanced.
Even for mid-2025 market conditions. If we assume CUDIMM it's basically a mortgage fest.

What Nova Lake would have needed is triple channel. Paired with a much lower frequency rating. Sounding too vintage for your ass?
The advantages are:
- more capacity, one can have 3x 24 GB or 3x 32GB modules meaning a rather large (for mainstream builds) RAM buffer with single rank and moderate voltage;
- some cost cutting for mobo makers if Intel would enforce the use of 3 DIMM slots only for the ATX boards, the other 3 are useless anyway for the vast majority of users; the extra room by omitting one DIMM could allow easier placement of some headers or extra features like Debug LED display etc.;
- more bandwidth using lower frequency (and thus cheaper RAM).

The disadvantages are:
- more complex IMC, however some benefits would be running the RAM at lower frequency and moderate voltage which would be less stressful overall;
- more expensive RAM to start a build (as you need 3x16 at a minimum), it having lower frequency makes it cheaper in that regard, but validating a 3 module kit is more expensive also buying 3 modules instead of 2 means the end cost would be higher, but you would be getting 50% more capacity and more bandwidth than dual-channel thus the price per GB for the whole kit could in fact be similar to a high speed dual channel one (even more if the triple channel is UDIMM and the dual channel is CUDIMM) so basically proportionally more for the larger capacity but you still end up with more bandwidth;
- the necessity for E-ATX boards to get 6 DIMMs for the users that want to populate them all for very high capacity builds, not really a drawback as they have big money anyway since they can afford so much RAM.

Thinking outside the box is the key to winning in this day and age. Everyone insisting on dual channel (for the consumer market) is not thinking outside the box. Because keeping dual channel means speed has to go up to compensate for the bandwidth needs, way up!
Even if a triple channel Nova Lake would encroach a bit on workstation territory beating AMD decisively is worth it. I don't know if Intel feels the same way but I expect them to.

Next year the RAM situation won't be (much) better by the looks of it, so the proposition of a strong consumer platform that needs high speed expensive RAM to get the best out of it doesn't sound like a great deal. Also going for the flagship (or the one below it) means capacity is also required, so high capacity and high speed RAM sounds like wallet extermination.

Going triple channel with lower frequency rating would have given Intel more time to develop a stronger IMC for Razer Lake, and they could have postponed the high speed RAM for that arch. After all the rumor mill says the core count stays the same with Razer Lake, so it's sort of a polishing the turd buying time type of arch until the Hammer (Lake) drops bringing revolutionary changes.

With that said, even if I'm moderately optimistic for Nova Lake, even if it wins I still feel that triple channel would have been the sucker punch that would have turned Intel into a crowd favorite over night. Nobody would have expected that feature, neither AMD nor consumers.

Prove me wrong peeps!