Where does all that money go to... i've always wondered..??

Fucking EU, MS refuse to pay those whores, your a US company so they can't touch you, just tell the EU where to go.

candle_86Fucking EU, MS refuse to pay those whores, your a US company so they can't touch you, just tell the EU where to go.

That is an ignorant response dude. If your company(MS) sells globally it is subject to rules and regulations of those other country's.

candle_86Fucking EU, MS refuse to pay those whores, your a US company so they can't touch you, just tell the EU where to go.

You're kidding right? Or you're 12 years old...

On the side note, it's about time someone does something against damn Microsoft monopoly.

I have to agree with Gambit here.

just because they trade internationally doesnt mean they can be fined by any organization. If the compitition can't think for themselves and require MS code, MS should just abdon all support for that region and only offer there products by mail from american compaines that ship internationally. Does MS's board sit in the EU or in America. Either the compitition can show an ounce of injinuity

regardless, microsoft will fight this and then who knows how much they will actually pay. and it probably doesnt even matter. everyone in the business world relies upon microsoft. why do you think they charge so much for their OS ? so when govts demand a kickback (and this IS a kickback) microsoft will still have enough money to keep the shareholders happy. govts enjoy big powerful companies like microsoft because they can exploit them. they know taxing microsoft out of this world rates would be blatently unjust and too obvious. instead,they slap a big fat fine on them. its mixing business and politics. you can thank karl marx.

candle_86just because they trade internationally doesnt mean they can be fined by any organization. If the compitition can't think for themselves and require MS code, MS should just abdon all support for that region and only offer there products by mail from american compaines that ship internationally. Does MS's board sit in the EU or in America. Either the compitition can show an ounce of injinuity

I don't think you understand what the EU is. You say "just because they trade internationally doesnt mean they can be fined by any organization." it does mean they can be fined. The EU is no mere organization dude. They are the law in most of Europe.

"The European Union (EU) is a political and economic community of twenty-seven member states, located primarily in Europe."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU#Legislation

DuxxWhere does all that money go to... i've always wondered..??

The "get out" fund?

I think the EU is stupid, crazy, and far too short sighted.

I don't think MS should have to share a single line of their code. It's called proprietary for a reason. Now, if they choose to do so of their own free will, that's absolutely great, but I don't think anyone else should have the right to say what they do with their own intellectual property.

If I were MS, not only would I refuse to pay the fine, I would counter with the threat to pull completely out of the European market. What would the EU do then?

thats what i say, pull out of Europe, close the windows update site for europe and block all access to the update site from Europe with a message like this.

Your leaders will not allow you to use our software unless we give the code away, so untill your leaders become reasonable you are now responsible for writing your own updates.

Gambit_ZAI don't think you understand what the EU is. You say "just because they trade internationally doesnt mean they can be fined by any organization." it does mean they can be fined. The EU is no mere organization dude. They are the law in most of Europe.

"The European Union (EU) is a political and economic community of twenty-seven member states, located primarily in Europe."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU#Legislation

and i understand it fine, but i also understand this, MS is headquatered in Seattle Washington thats the US. Meaning they are under the jurisdiction of the US Government not the EU. If Europe would like to continue there use of MS products i would suggest they replace there leaders with a somewhat capitlist minded bunch. Europe is looking a bit to much like Soviet Russia these days for my tastes, heck every gets what ever they want over there already, government gives them a job, and now patents are no longer leagal if it interfers with compitition. Europe looks a little Red to me. As the say Kill a Commie for Mommie

candle you need to lessen the hostility, think a bit more.

Microsoft engages in trade within the european union voluntarily, therefore has to respect the laws there.

You cant go to another country and break their laws saying "oh, well, we dont have that law where Im from"

No, USA laws do not apply to the EU. Im no fan of the EU, they are money grabbing, backstabbing and riddled with corruption. But law is law. You have to abide with trade laws etc if you want to trade with other parts of the world.

Anyway, is what you are saying is that a megacorp like MS, can go to trade in a different part of the world, drive down competition, monopolise the market so to speak, and get away with it?

Thats sort of like a hostile invasion lol

EU companies would not appreciate that imo.

Meh.. but im no politician

looks to me like tall poppy syndrome once your big and sucsessful everyone just wants to tear ya down and will come up with any excuse to do so. See it alot in my country.

Candle... before you start throwing your toys at the EU, get some facts:

Microsoft had initially set a royalty rate of 3.87% of a licensee's product revenues for patents and demanded that companies looking for communication information -- which it said was highly secret -- pay 2.98% of their products' revenues.

The EU complained last March that the rates were unfair. Under threat of fines, Microsoft two months later reduced the patent rate to 0.7% and the information license to 0.5%-- but only in Europe, leaving the worldwide rates unchanged.

The EU's Court of First Instance ruling that upheld regulators' views changed the company's mind again in October when it offered a new license for interoperability information for a flat fee of 10,000 euros ($14,900) and an optional worldwide patent license for a reduced royalty of 0.4%

Lets put this in SIMPLE terms!

1./ If you were a software developer, and you were having some difficultly getting something to work in Windows, and needed a "how it works" technical note, then MS charged you a minimum of 2.98% of your revenues just so you could look at some technical notes. (communication information).

THEN

2./ You needed to pay another 3.87% royalty fees on top.

Net net... just to be able to use Windows platform and be on the same playing field as MS programmers, you had to pay 2.98+3.87=6.85% of your REVENUES (not profit) to MS. Remember this has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELEASING SOURCE CODE AND IP. Just access to information on how to use the user interface and link with data objects over servers.

3./ So, quite rightly, the EU said, wait a minute... that is an insane amount of money. You need to fix it, because, defacto, that is usury, and misuse of dominant position.

4./ MS says "fxxk u" we're american and just like our gvt can do whatever we want

5./ EU say "oh no you cant, not here mate". Fix it, asap, and we will forgive you. Here is a deadline and all will be ok.

6./ MS says "lets hope they forget", and didnt deliver

7./ EU says we are serious, heres a fine (first fine)

8./ MS ignores the EU fine and uses lots of lawyers to delay and slow down the process. Remember that MILLIONS of dollars spent on their lawyers was still less than the interest on the money. Moreover, the longer they had the money in "the war chest", the more slosh fund they had for acquisitions.

9./ MS gets a SECOND fine on top for ignoring the conviction. If MS was a "person" not a company, then MS would have "gone to jail" for not paying fines, but since it is a company, the fine gets (essentially) DOUBLED. That's, generally, how it works in EU. Do as you are told, and on time, or the punishment gets more severe.


Did you know that MS made more than $44 billion revenues in 2006? So the original fine was a very small percentage of MS revenues. In fact A LOT LESS THAN the percentage MS charges for its royalty and communication information that was the issue!

>> Saying that MS should shut down their operations in Europe is asinine. Why would any company do any action to cut off more than 30% of its revenues? So, for the sake of ONE $500 million fine, you would cut of income of $15,000 million, this year, and each and every year in the future? Are you an investment genius?

mandeloreAnyway, is what you are saying is that a megacorp like MS, can go to trade in a different part of the world, drive down competition, monopolise the market so to speak, and get away with it?

Thats sort of like a hostile invasion lol

EU companies would not appreciate that imo.

Meh.. but im no politician

Yeah, i believe it is OK for them to completely dominate a market if they marketed themselves properly to achieve it. That's what capitalism is all about. Now, using illegal methods to do it is another thing, but in my opinion, retaining the code to your own proprietary software, shouldn't be one of those things that's illegal. That's just ridiculous. MS should not be forced to release their code, under any circumstances. They should get to reserve the right to release their code, whenever, and to whomever, they want.

Now, using methods like threating distributors if they carry a competing product, and other actions that purposely disrupt the supply chain of a competitor, are unacceptable.

I agree with candle a bit. The EU is starting to look a bit red.

I don't want to get too much into this, my belly is full about Microsoft, but in this case i rather be a commie.
Microsoft is ramming other companies, denying a true competition and eventually, disrupts the "free" market. Microsoft have alot of money, too much money, and they use it to ram the other players every time someone raises his head. you know, other developers and firms need work and profits too. Microsoft makes sure all of this potential profit goes to them. YES they have the "best" OS in the world atm, but they mess with other people's work and deny any real fight in this market. so yeah, that's capitalism for you :rolleyes: destroy the competition and rule as you wish. blah.

If it wasn't for the habit of using windows, i'd be on a different OS now.

Yeah but why does ms have to share its intellectual property with everyone else.

So what if the eu said sod america and all them 27 countries in the eu refused to trade with america,were do you think america would be......screwed is the answer.

If you trade in the world community,you have to abide by the rules.

mandelorecandle you need to lessen the hostility, think a bit more.

Microsoft engages in trade within the european union voluntarily, therefore has to respect the laws there.

You cant go to another country and break their laws saying "oh, well, we dont have that law where Im from"

No, USA laws do not apply to the EU. Im no fan of the EU, they are money grabbing, backstabbing and riddled with corruption. But law is law. You have to abide with trade laws etc if you want to trade with other parts of the world.

agree i do, candle acting very childish is......

also agree i do that MS doing buisness in EU voluntarily is, as such should accept the laws set forth the EU by.

in this case being the EU correct, fines should MS pay, if notliking the fines ms should do as ruled, or pull out of markets to them unfriendly are.

EU could ms products drasticly tax, loose market to linux/bsd/mac then would ms, make them think twice about lawbreaking that would.

WileE, so you go to europe and break their laws, expect to get off scott free do you because you from there are not?

respect the EU for standing up to ms i do, agree with them i do not alwase, but respect that unlike US govt and most others around world, have balls to stand up to ms they do, tell ms "you are wrong" and "you cant do that here" a lot of gutts takes, ms more money has then most EU countrys.....little to big are they, need some hummility do they.

candle_86Fucking EU, MS refuse to pay those whores, your a US company so they can't touch you, just tell the EU where to go.

No need to swear around, please keep it civil!

cheers
DS
Your friendly mod

Why not just give the key codes to the rival computer software giants? Its not like they are going to abuse the rights..and if they do you get the money..Why?:wtf:

ROFLCOPTER!
another blow to the evil corporation that has us all in a stranglehold. a few more of these and maybe linux will get directx support.

pfft.......
my 2 cents.....