Sunday, May 25th 2008

Technology Analyst: Get Over Vista Hate

A reporter and technology analyst for the Washington Post recently took a rather strong point of view regarding Windows Vista and XP. He accepts that Vista has it's flaws, such as "steep hardware requirements, its strict anti-piracy measures, its sometimes-intrusive security measures, its incompatibility with some older products." However, he points out that the current market behavior, which is something along the lines of "don't upgrade until Vista gets better, and beg to keep XP on shelves" is not doing Vista or Microsoft any good. He points out that XP is not a historic monument in need of preservation, and is more like an old car: it's had a good run, but in view of some XP flaws when compared to Vista strongpoints, it's time to move on. The analyst also pointed out that fundamental supply/demand economics is keeping Vista from rising to greatness. As long as the market holds on to XP, and refuses to move on to Vista, software makers will not see a very good reason to adopt or support Vista, which causes most of the problems Vista has today. You can read more details at the source link.Source: Daily Tech
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157 Comments on Technology Analyst: Get Over Vista Hate

#1
jtleon
Apologies goin out!

erocker said:
Hmm. Eyes. Check! Ears... Check! Nope, no problems there. Please don't insult my listening and visual skills. Personally, I like basing the information I give out to people from my own personal experiences. Not by what some journalist writes on a website. You can throw all the links you want at me. Fact of the matter is, It's my job to keep 20+ computers going all of which run either XP or Vista. I'm comfortable using either O/S and can make either of them run like I want. If you feel like you need to listen to the "professionals" go right ahead mate!:toast:
Erocker....Wile E....

I ask your forgiveness for my crassness in earlier posts of this thread. I am sure your tribulations with VISTA have only drawn it closer to your hearts. There is a saying in the US Military...goes something like this.....That with which you suffer most...you love most. Take my wife.....for example!

Regards,
jtleon
Posted on Reply
#2
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Rebo&Zooty said:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/innovation

in·no·va·tion (n-vshn)
n.
1. The act of introducing something new.
2. Something newly introduced.

innovation
Noun
1. something newly introduced, such as a new method or device
2. the act of innovating


i dont see how copyed fetures of another os are innovation.........

thats like saying rubber tires are an innovation because you painted ur name on the side of them....
vista does introduce a whole slew if new features. have you seen the code? and i believe you are confusing invention with innovation. to invent something is to create something totally new while innovation is to introduce something new into something that already exists.
Posted on Reply
#3
Megasty
Rebo&Zooty said:
most of the crying i saw and heard about 2k vs 9x was due to people not understanding the os they moved to, the fact that it wasnt based on 9x at all, i had to many times explain that tho it looked the same/simlar it wasnt even close to the same under the hood.

comparing 9x with nt core is like comparing a windup toy with a sports car.........(since ppl here like car annaligys.
That's their problem. People usually only go by looks rather than performance at first. That's why they get stuck with lemons. The only thing about MS OS's are that they are junk when they first come out no matter how long they are worked on b4 release. MS has no idea how normal folks will perceive their junk. That's why they embedded feedback protocols into the newer OS's. MS gets over 10 million crash reports a day & 90% of them are for the same thing. The only way MS can make vista better is to figure out how many fault lines of code are making the same thing happen over & over again. Too bad that doesn't give them any idea on how to fix it but its a start :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#4
Wile E
Power User
jtleon said:
Hmmm.....I feel rather sympathetic for you Wile E. I know I'm not smart...as all the experts that disagree with you!

http://www.computerweekly.com/Articles/2008/04/03/230125/vista-ignored-as-businesses-wait-for-windows-7.htm

But You keep up the good fight!!!!

LOL
jtleon
Show me, at what point, did I say that corporations should move to Vista? I'm not stupid. I know corporations have very different needs compared to home users. Changing any API can completely render their programs useless, most of which are mission critical for them.

I am, and have been, speaking of the general computer using populace.
Posted on Reply
#5
Rebo&Zooty
Wile E said:
Show me, at what point, did I say that corporations should move to Vista? I'm not stupid. I know corporations have very different needs compared to home users. Changing any API can completely render their programs useless, most of which are mission critical for them.

I am, and have been, speaking of the general computer using populace.
but you come off as do most vista fanatics, as saying everybody shoudl switch now and trash all older os's because vista is new and its the best.

at least thats how you come off to me from what you have said.

and ms's main $ maker is not home users, its buisness contracts, and they put out an os that big busness dosnt want, because it breaks things they need.
Posted on Reply
#6
Rebo&Zooty
Easy Rhino said:
vista does introduce a whole slew if new features. have you seen the code? and i believe you are confusing invention with innovation. to invent something is to create something totally new while innovation is to introduce something new into something that already exists.
those fetures are not invented or innovated, they are COPYED, check around, its like when people like you and wileE tryed to say system restore was a great innovative microsoft invention, when they(ms) got sued over it because they flat out STOLE It from another company.........
Posted on Reply
#7
Rebo&Zooty
jtleon said:
Erocker....Wile E....

I ask your forgiveness for my crassness in earlier posts of this thread. I am sure your tribulations with VISTA have only drawn it closer to your hearts. There is a saying in the US Military...goes something like this.....That with which you suffer most...you love most. Take my wife.....for example!

Regards,
jtleon
no thanks you can keep her :P

(sorry m8 but i had to, you left that one wide open)
Posted on Reply
#8
Wile E
Power User
Rebo&Zooty said:
acctualy it dosnt REQUIER higher hardware to improove an os, as can be shown with a decent linux distro(noobuntu is effectivly vista in linux flavor.....heavy on resorces and slow)

check out vectorlinux soho unsing enlitenment, if you want a flashy gui, its got it, if you want speed even on OLD ASS HARDWARE that wouldnt even run windows XP, guess what YOU GOT IT!!!! no joke, i have done it, and it works, so this "you need to force hardware upgrades to add fetures/functionality/accessability.

fact is MS COULD DO IT, but they dont because they want to insure you buy a new puter every couple years, and this is im sure enlarge to keep their pockets full, not just via hardware sales but you know that the higher up's in ms do invest in hardware maker stocks, so its good for them if your forced to buy 16gb ram and a 4ghz quadcore and a 500gb, as well as a 512mb dx10 videocard in order to run their next os, because it insures they make money off the software and off then investments in hardware makers, woot woot guess thats all for the best in your eyes tho.



hell even bill gates effectivly admited that vista sucks, need proof.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a2zqRc1jvs

yeah, thats a ringing indorcement for their new os aint it, the owner of the company effectivly saying it sucks and is unpolished.........



you dont read well do you?

under xp IF ms dissabled video output the would be open to lawsuits and WOULD LOOSE, the eula dosnt allow it, under vista it does and it also allows "degraded playback" of media if ms/mpaa/riaa dont like your hardware, for the love of god READ what i said.

as to corp users, alot of people cant deal with their home system and work system being diffrent, you got no idea how many people i have seen get their vista machien put back to xp simply because they cant deal with the diffrances, im not saying ppl like us couldnt, but alot of computer MORONS/AOL users cant coap with things not being the same in both places, i even heard one lady at best buy paying geek squad to install xp for her say that was her reasion, she liked vistas look, but couldnt deal with how diffrent it was from her system at work, so she bought xp online and payed geeksquad like 280bucks to install it for her(stupid ppl make geeksquad rich......)

but you dont see that, you see, "vista is newer, so vista is better, woot woot for vista, everybody should change now!!!"

Also something about xp, im not an xp fan, its been a headake for me to deal withdue to botched critical hotfixes (untested shit that breaks drivers or bsod loops ppls systems) but its still better then the experiance with vista i have had to date, and if you read its EULA, well the xp eula is far more forgiving and kind to the end user then vista's.

you know in vista you arent even allowed to "trouble shoot" os spicific problems/limmitations and find workarounds? yeah thats in there, if you do that, you just broke your contract and they can dissable your system if they like leaving you with a very expencive paperweight.....NICE!!!!



who cares? its stupid to "upgrade" anyway, you just endup with more problems and a buggyer slower system if you do an "upgrade" from one version of windows to another.....




because even he feels vista is unpolished crap?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a2zqRc1jvs



http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/?LN=en-us&p1=3223&x=19&y=8

try till 4/8/2014
You can argue all you want, but full definition video is disabled with BD in XP if you don't either have full HDCP compliant hardware, or unless you remove the drm. There was also a workaround by using VGA connectors instead of DVI on both OSes, but I'm not sure that still works. I don't give a shit what the EULA says, that's the way it is.

And I'm tired of this argument with you. Yeah, we get it, you don't like Vista. But you still haven't provided anything valid to prove it's a bad OS. You can bash Vista all you want. The fact is, you don't have much experience with it. All you are doing is rehashing things you've heard on the internet, most of which, like buggy code and instability, has been taken care of. So have the performance issues. The only valid point brought up in this thread so far, is the way Vista handles audio.
Posted on Reply
#9
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Rebo&Zooty said:
those fetures are not invented or innovated, they are COPYED, check around, its like when people like you and wileE tryed to say system restore was a great innovative microsoft invention, when they(ms) got sued over it because they flat out STOLE It from another company.........
im sure some lines are copied, but that doesnt mean the whole OS is a copy. also, i never said system restore was good. i never use system restore. and companies shouldnt steal from one another. btw, i am not a vista fan boy. i only use vista because of dx 10 support ( a point i have made abundantly clear in a number of other 'vista sucks' posts.) i am not even a microsoft fan boy. i will however argue with people who think vista sucks. if you dont like it then that is fine. you dont have to use it, just continue to use XP or try a MAC or linux. or you can write your own OS. what i dont like is how some people think it is sooooo easy to put together an OS that not only is easy to use for the PC newb and powerful enough for the PC veteran, but also supports every single chipset made and about to be made and every bit of hardware created. and to continue that support for years and years while developing updates and created a new operating system geared for the next generation. the author of the article is right. get over your vista hate!
Posted on Reply
#10
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Wile E said:
And I'm tired of this argument with you. Yeah, we get it, you don't like Vista. But you still haven't provided anything valid to prove it's a bad OS. You can bash Vista all you want. The fact is, you don't have much experience with it. All you are doing is rehashing things you've heard on the internet, most of which, like buggy code and instability, has been taken care of. So have the performance issues. The only valid point brought up in this thread so far, is the way Vista handles audio.
wile e, you forgot the most important reason vista sucks. because it is microsoft :laugh: i guess some people just have an axe to grind.
Posted on Reply
#11
Rebo&Zooty
Wile E said:
You can argue all you want, but full definition video is disabled with BD in XP if you don't either have full HDCP compliant hardware, or you remove the drm. There was also a workaround by using VGA connectors instead of DVI on both OSes, but I'm not sure that still works. I don't give a shit what the EULA says, that's the way it is.

And I'm tired of this argument with you. Yeah, we get it, you don't like Vista. But you still haven't provided anything valid to prove it's a bad OS. You can bash Vista all you want. The fact is, you don't have much experience with it. All you are doing is rehashing things you've heard on the internet, most of which, like buggy code and instability, has been taken care of. So have the performance issues. The only valid point brought up in this thread so far, is the way Vista handles audio.
its only dissabled with windows media player under pre vista os's and you cant play dvd or bd content with WMP unless you buy a 3rd party decoder because ms dosnt include one with the os, i have seen full quility 1080p movies played off a pre vista laptop onto an hdtv using the dvi port NO hdmi support in this laptop mind you, just windvd installed, no anydvd or the like no cracking, just an external db drive(usb) connected to the laptop and windvd8 used for playback(windvd 7 also works but they guy got 8 free with the bd drive)

so your xp is as limmited in media playback unless u crack it line of shit isnt working here.....

as to the vga thing, yes it still works using a VGA cable was a consession the mpaa had to make because ms pointed out they couldnt force people to buy monotors that where hdcp enabled, ms acctualy did something smart in that case, because alot of people would have told them where to stick it if they couldnt use their current monotor(if i spent 500-600bucks on a 22-24in high range crt and was told i had to buy another one because the mpaa said so....well u can guess what i and most of us would say....well other then you, you would just happly run out and get an hdmi/hdcp monotor)

oh and wileE you also fail to note that when they lock down playback quility via windows patches based on videocard or drivers not being approved, this effects ALL content, be it home movies, anime, or fraps stuff you yourself recorded, so it would effect you even if you dont have an HD player/drive in your system(b4 any of you twats try and point out that HD-DVD is dead, yes i know i ment HD as in High Def, that covers HD-DVD, BluRay and some other formats as well.)

i know i need to use vista for a year b4 i have a right to say anything bad about it.....fuck that.
Posted on Reply
#12
jtleon
Did MS reinstate OpenGL Support in Vista?

Can anyone confirm that VISTA SP1 now supports OpenGL? I had heard otherwise.

Regards,
jtleon
Posted on Reply
#13
tigger
I'm the only one
Dunno,but i did find this pic of some windows bog roll to give you vista hters a laugh.

Posted on Reply
#14
Wile E
Power User
jtleon said:
Can anyone confirm that VISTA SP1 now supports OpenGL? I had heard otherwise.

Regards,
jtleon
OpenGL has been working in Vista.
Posted on Reply
#15
Rebo&Zooty
Easy Rhino said:
im sure some lines are copied, but that doesnt mean the whole OS is a copy. also, i never said system restore was good. i never use system restore. and companies shouldnt steal from one another. btw, i am not a vista fan boy. i only use vista because of dx 10 support ( a point i have made abundantly clear in a number of other 'vista sucks' posts.) i am not even a microsoft fan boy. i will however argue with people who think vista sucks. if you dont like it then that is fine. you dont have to use it, just continue to use XP or try a MAC or linux. or you can write your own OS. what i dont like is how some people think it is sooooo easy to put together an OS that not only is easy to use for the PC newb and powerful enough for the PC veteran, but also supports every single chipset made and about to be made and every bit of hardware created. and to continue that support for years and years while developing updates and created a new operating system geared for the next generation. the author of the article is right. get over your vista hate!
i didnt mean you spicificly i ment people like you and him who insist newer is better......

its not that i hate vista, i hate how vista works and feels, IF they where to get it out of the "feels like a beta" stages i wouldnt mind it, but i CANT stand how clunky it feels, yes even after sp1 i have used it on my buddys lappy(he had me update it since his home net is 128k dsl and my nets 5mbit) it still to me feels unpolished, like its not quite there, i know, i must not have ever used it in order to not like it tho........

as to copyed code, i didnt mean it copyed lines or code, but your talking as if fetures ms emplimented where new exciting ms inventions, and ms dosnt invent or innovate 99% of the time, they COPY, i used system restore as an expample because its the easyist one to point out that EVERYBODY knows about, ms got sued over it, they flat out copyed it and put that copy in ME then tweaked it a bit and put it in xp..........it was harolded by mags and online sites and forums posters as an incrediable innovation/invention, but it wasnt even a good copy job, as the 3rd party software had less buggs and didnt lockdown and backup viruses(if a backup was infected you could clean it!!!)

i understand better then most why windows has the issues it has, back in the super7 and socketA days the biggist plauge on me and the shops i worked for where cheap via based motherboards, jesus, 99/100 times if somebody brought in a buggy amd system it was because the board was a cheap(or in some cases expencive) via based board, swap it out for any other chipset and bam no more problems.........

and i have said for years that the only reasion that mac's use to have less problems then cheap/poorly built pc's was that they had VERY limmited hardware, yet in my experiance they had just as many problems as a decently built pc, if not more due to their os being a PITA.....

god i dont miss those days, at least today via isnt making chipsets for amd market, and the few being used are "ok" as long as u dont tweak them ;)

If vista ever gets to a point where to me it dosnt feel clunky and most of my apps will work, then i will use it, till then, why would i want to trade rock solid stable and fast for vista?
Posted on Reply
#16
Wile E
Power User
Rebo&Zooty said:
its only dissabled with windows media player under pre vista os's and you cant play dvd or bd content with WMP unless you buy a 3rd party decoder because ms dosnt include one with the os, i have seen full quility 1080p movies played off a pre vista laptop onto an hdtv using the dvi port NO hdmi support in this laptop mind you, just windvd installed, no anydvd or the like no cracking, just an external db drive(usb) connected to the laptop and windvd8 used for playback(windvd 7 also works but they guy got 8 free with the bd drive)

so your xp is as limmited in media playback unless u crack it line of shit isnt working here.....

as to the vga thing, yes it still works using a VGA cable was a consession the mpaa had to make because ms pointed out they couldnt force people to buy monotors that where hdcp enabled, ms acctualy did something smart in that case, because alot of people would have told them where to stick it if they couldnt use their current monotor(if i spent 500-600bucks on a 22-24in high range crt and was told i had to buy another one because the mpaa said so....well u can guess what i and most of us would say....well other then you, you would just happly run out and get an hdmi/hdcp monotor)

oh and wileE you also fail to note that when they lock down playback quility via windows patches based on videocard or drivers not being approved, this effects ALL content, be it home movies, anime, or fraps stuff you yourself recorded, so it would effect you even if you dont have an HD player/drive in your system(b4 any of you twats try and point out that HD-DVD is dead, yes i know i ment HD as in High Def, that covers HD-DVD, BluRay and some other formats as well.)

i know i need to use vista for a year b4 i have a right to say anything bad about it.....fuck that.
You are just wrong. I've also seen it with my own 2 eyes that HD playback does not work in XP without HDCP (not HDMI) hardware. It happens on my secondary system. I just chose to defeat the drm, rather than buying an HDCP monitor. Most HDTVs are HDCP compatible. It's also possible that his lappy supports HDCP. HDCP works over DVI as well.

And I have yet to see any other content blocked on Vista, other than DRM content. That's just a load of BS.
Posted on Reply
#17
Rebo&Zooty
tigger69 said:
Dunno,but i did find this pic of some windows bog roll to give you vista hters a laugh.


somebody get me some of that!!!!
Posted on Reply
#18
Cold Storm
Battosai
tigger69 said:
Dunno,but i did find this pic of some windows bog roll to give you vista hters a laugh.


I just want the Quad Core in the back!!!!


I've tried Vista in early October, with a AMD 3000+ and x1650 pro... I got it running, but the card got so hot that it was bsod every 15 mins of it running.... But, when I set up my new rig, I haven't turned back... I went xp for a few weeks because I was testing something.... but I rather have Vista, and won't tell another person not to. Its something new that you have to get a handle with... I'm a Chef at a Hospital... Every 3 months I have to change the way I do things because of how HCA thinks things are... So, learning a new os was cake walk compared to how many steps it takes to cut piece of meat..
Posted on Reply
#19
Easy Rhino
Linux Advocate
Rebo&Zooty said:
i didnt mean you spicificly i ment people like you and him who insist newer is better......

its not that i hate vista, i hate how vista works and feels, IF they where to get it out of the "feels like a beta" stages i wouldnt mind it, but i CANT stand how clunky it feels, yes even after sp1 i have used it on my buddys lappy(he had me update it since his home net is 128k dsl and my nets 5mbit) it still to me feels unpolished, like its not quite there, i know, i must not have ever used it in order to not like it tho........

as to copyed code, i didnt mean it copyed lines or code, but your talking as if fetures ms emplimented where new exciting ms inventions, and ms dosnt invent or innovate 99% of the time, they COPY, i used system restore as an expample because its the easyist one to point out that EVERYBODY knows about, ms got sued over it, they flat out copyed it and put that copy in ME then tweaked it a bit and put it in xp..........it was harolded by mags and online sites and forums posters as an incrediable innovation/invention, but it wasnt even a good copy job, as the 3rd party software had less buggs and didnt lockdown and backup viruses(if a backup was infected you could clean it!!!)

i understand better then most why windows has the issues it has, back in the super7 and socketA days the biggist plauge on me and the shops i worked for where cheap via based motherboards, jesus, 99/100 times if somebody brought in a buggy amd system it was because the board was a cheap(or in some cases expencive) via based board, swap it out for any other chipset and bam no more problems.........

and i have said for years that the only reasion that mac's use to have less problems then cheap/poorly built pc's was that they had VERY limmited hardware, yet in my experiance they had just as many problems as a decently built pc, if not more due to their os being a PITA.....

god i dont miss those days, at least today via isnt making chipsets for amd market, and the few being used are "ok" as long as u dont tweak them ;)

If vista ever gets to a point where to me it dosnt feel clunky and most of my apps will work, then i will use it, till then, why would i want to trade rock solid stable and fast for vista?
i agree that vista is not perfect. give it 2-3 more years and it will be very close. it took that long for XP to get that way. but by then windows 7 may be out so who knows. that is fine that you dont use vista since you dont like it, but i havnt had any real problems with it so i use it. mainly because i like dx 10 gaming. the good news is that linux distros are making serious inroads in the OS department. maybe in 4-5 years we will have an actual contender to take down microsoft from their OS pedistal.
Posted on Reply
#21
kylew
Rebo&Zooty said:
somebody get me some of that!!!!
You do realise that it's most probably made from tracing paper? Are you sure you want that? Maybe you need to wipe all that BS from around your mouth.
Posted on Reply
#22
Rebo&Zooty
kylew said:
Wow, some people just don't understand that their opinion is NOT fact, just an opinion, a misguided, misinformed and biased opinion. :shadedshu
maby you need to look in the mirror, everything you said there applys to you from our point of view..
Posted on Reply
#23
Paulieg
The Mad Moderator
I have NO intention in reading this entire thread. I wil say though, that I've been running Vista Ultimate 64bit for the last month. I have found it quite fast and efficient. No problems or lags at all. It also looks better than XP ever did. Just my 2 cents. I do run XP on my second rig though, just in case.
Posted on Reply
#24
kylew
What's funny is how people are bashing vista so badly, yet the people who are defending it aren't actually saying anything against XP. People need to seriously get over this, it's an OS, we're not talking about taking your air from you and giving you CO2 to breathe instead. :rolleyes: I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the bashers really haven't used vista, and they're going off what they've read on the internet. The only issue vista has would be the way it handles audio, as already mentioned, and that's not even an issue to me. If you actually used vista, you'd realise it's very stable, and can avoid crashes very easily. The only BSODs I get with vista are when something's faulty, or I've overclocked too high. Everything else is solid, and if something crashes, vista will recover or stop it. If you people applied this mentality in life, you'd end up getting heavily laughed at, or sectioned for believing your opinion is the ultimate fact regardless of your level of experience with said thing.
Posted on Reply
#25
kylew
Rebo&Zooty said:
mabye you need to look in the mirror, everything you said there applies to you from our point of view..
HAHAHAHA :roll: *points and laughs* :nutkick:

Seriously, what are you even on about? What is it that I'm biased about? What am I misguided about? So, is it my opinion that vista only bsods when it's a hardware issue or I've overclocked too much? MAYBE It's just an opinion that it doesn't crash for me, maybe it actually DOES, but I'm so misguided that I'm convinced it doesn't. Is it my opinion that vista runs well and stable for me, ie, no crashes unless it's a hardware fault? That can never be an opinion, it either does or it doesn't. I'm not even against XP, i prefer vista, but I've used XP for years previously. I think your argument has got to the point that you don't actually where your influences from what you've read starts, and your opinion ends. :confused:

You need to back up onto a broom handle wrapped in coarse sand paper. :rolleyes:
Posted on Reply
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