Monday, July 14th 2008

Radeon HD 4870 X2 Previewed, AA Performance a Trump Card

HardOCP previewed the ATI Radeon HD4870 X2. In the preview it was pitted against a single BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC (overclocked) and Crossfire X setup using two cards was pitted against two GeForce GTX 280 cards in SLI. Across variable settings, the HD4870 X2 was compared to the GTX 280. In Crysis the competition was neck-to-neck while the ATI cards returned marginally lower average frame rates. In Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, the ATI cards outclassed the NVIDIA cards significantly, where the Anti-Aliasing (AA) performance of the cards proved to be a trump-card, with the cards returning over 30% performance increments in both single and Crossfire X configurations over the GeForce GTX 280 OC and its SLI configuration. With the AA bottleneck reduced, the R700 is a monster. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures shows what this card is truly capable of, the author of the preview goes on to use "AMD AA Performance FTW" to head a write-up on the AA system. AMD has reworked AA and also a new mode that doesn't tax the video memory as much has been added. The total of 2 GB GDDR5 memory only helps this cause.

The card in Crossfire X peaked 700W though not much is revealed with the power-testing. You can read the article here.Source: HardOCP
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95 Comments on Radeon HD 4870 X2 Previewed, AA Performance a Trump Card

#1
yogurt_21
DarkMatter said:
Because of how much I use the PC, it's more than 4 euros month for me and around 50 euros year. That's without taking into account the extra conditioning that would be required to not get cooked myself with such temperatures (hmm forget about that: I would save in the winter :roll:). I change cards every two years, that's a difference of more than 100 euros. Get the picture?
performance per watt hasn't really been ati's thing since the 9800's. the x800's were a a little hot, the x1800's definetly were as well as the x1900's and don't get me started on the 2900xt. (sure the 3870's were a little better ) but overall sure the gtx280 beats it in performance per watt, for most people buying this card, it won't matter. for me it wont. in az electricity is dirt cheap and I'd pay less than 1$ extra a month for 100w increase. and my psu is already enough for crossfirex. you may have an issue in that departement, but on a a64x2 4800, iseriously doubt you'd be getting the full potential of either of these cards anyways. all in all those interested in performance per watt aren't going to be buying a card of this caliber. a 9800gtx+ would suffice.

in the highest graphics arena all that matters is overall performance. which in everything but crysis, goes to the 4870x2.
Posted on Reply
#3
DarkMatter
yogurt_21 said:
performance per watt hasn't really been ati's thing since the 9800's. the x800's were a a little hot, the x1800's definetly were as well as the x1900's and don't get me started on the 2900xt. (sure the 3870's were a little better ) but overall sure the gtx280 beats it in performance per watt, for most people buying this card, it won't matter. for me it wont. in az electricity is dirt cheap and I'd pay less than 1$ extra a month for 100w increase. and my psu is already enough for crossfirex. you may have an issue in that departement, but on a a64x2 4800, iseriously doubt you'd be getting the full potential of either of these cards anyways. all in all those interested in performance per watt aren't going to be buying a card of this caliber. a 9800gtx+ would suffice.

in the highest graphics arena all that matters is overall performance. which in everything but crysis, goes to the 4870x2.
First of all I'm going to upgrade soon. Finally. :D Was waiting until Nehalem, but since there's only going to be enthusiast Nehalems, no perofrmance or mainstream, I will go with a cheap Q6600 for now.

Second I'm not an benchmark enthusiast so I don't care if my card is not used to it's full potential. If I needed an upgrade I could very well buy the X2 now for my 4800+ because it would play well in a future upgrade.

Third my point was that FOR ME it's a really bad card because I use the PC for more than 15 hours day (me or my brother, sometimes my father...) and I'm either playing, watching videos or working with 3DMax that uses the card too. That's more than 12 hours a day on full load, and effectively 100w more means 50 euros more each year. This means that I would prefer to buy a card 100 euros more expensive instead. Also even with my 700w PSU, I woudn't be compfortable with the X2.

And last, temperatures. The heat output of my 8800 GT is already too much for my liking. I don't even want to imagine at what level you have to put the air aconditioner for the ambient temperature to stay at 25ºC. This is important even from the economic point of view. Almost the same extra money you are paying to power the card, you will pay to cool the ambient that the card is warming. Funny eh?
Posted on Reply
#4
H82LUZ73
HTC said:
By the time it's released, both 4850 and 4870 should have fallen in price enough to make ATI able to price it @ $499.

Or do you dudes think only nVidia can lower card prices?


Many dudes say "OK: a GTX260 card for $299 is worth it" ... except the 4870 has already fallen to $304 and i wouldn't be surprised if it would fall to something like 249 within a month's time, which is when the R700 is launched ...

Can nVidia match 4870's price, VS GTX260 in a month from now? It might, but only if losing money, badly: it should cost more to build, no?
Did you miss this ?

Also the price from retailers depend on the brand,Like Palit selling the 4870 for $319 while the Sapphire goes for $10 more at $329. Same goes on with the 4850`s also.

What I am saying is these cards here get priced to what the company makes,ASUS and Sapphire are the 2 expensive ones here in Canada,You should have seen the price on the 280 up here 2 weeks ago,hence the $800 price.
I myself will get 2 4850s and run in crossfire (Xfire is a program guys).If they go to $150 for each then I`m spending just over $300 for 2 cards that outperform the 280 and is even in some games to the 4870 and 4870x2.
Posted on Reply
#5
Selene
FYI GTX260 ASUS is now $279.99 after $30.00 MIR.
So id like to see SLI GTX260s vs 4870x2
Posted on Reply
#6
Hayder_Master
AA , is the way to discover the real performance of the graphic card
Posted on Reply
#7
Hayder_Master
one 4870 better than one gtx 260 , in most tests
Posted on Reply
#8
WarEagleAU
Bird of Prey
Dual core, single core, semantics really. This is one beast of a card and Im glad ATI finally got it going again.
Posted on Reply
#9
H82LUZ73
I broke down and got a 4870 Sapphire card and loving the beast...
Posted on Reply
#10
Tatty_One
Senior Moderator
ShadowFold said:
GTX 260 = 600$+ and HD 4870X2 = 500$. Look who beats who for the price.
GTX280 is less than $500 in the US now but having said that, I still think the x2 looks the better option, certainly for anyone who needs that power, say someone running 2 monitors at above 1900 resolutions, which I spose is like almost noone really :D
Posted on Reply
#11
Eeek
O.o?

Not sure why people are talking back and forth about fair and whats not fair about single vs dual gpu single cards. but facts are whatever your opinion is GTX280 is so far the fastest card. But the price tag of it sort of puts people in a dilema to which of the best they can afford. For the people with a huge pocket can easily afford tri sli gtx280 which looks like will be the best at this point, but No games out there require so much yet. So It looks like a waste of money to me. and by the time there are games that require that much, we'll have a whole new line of generation vgas. as for the price matter. ATI HD4870x2 is going to be around $549, and its official you can google official 4870x2 prices and links will pop up. Now it's already been released in TW a 2GB 4850 DDR3. From powercool. it's on their website under news. So US Price is not determined yet. Which I dont believe is worth buying yet. ASUS/MSI/GIG is also releasing a 1GB 4850 Some time soon, they already have their specs of it on their own websites with aftermarket coolers. Rumors and I say rumors because its not 100% Official yet but has been spoken of supposedly by AMD about another line of x2 which is the 4850x2. It's supposed to be 1GB of DDR5 memory. and also coming out another month or two after the 4870x2. and price is a guess around $399-400. I was hoping they wouldnt so that way 4870 would possibly drop down to 230-250 solid. But on newegg Asus 4870 is already 254 after Rebates. About the rumor on Nvidia Releasing a gx2 model is not entirely true, They are sort of giving up, and starting a whole new redesign of vgas to move onto the new Generation of DDR5. That's also on their site and their Mod closed alot of threads about some gx2 rumor. Not really throwing in their white towl but.. Guys Nvidia decided to team up with ATI. thats right. Because of some dispute between intel and nvidia. Nvidia decided to help ATI/AMD for the battle vs Intel. I was actually an Nvidia Fanboy, Who wasn't when it comes to wanting best performance on a PC. But ATI always had my eye on video quality since the 9800 series. Now save your flames cause I may be alittle outdated but so far what I said was all from a week worth of web browsing and reading a ton of forums and articals. I think it's time for me to go ATI as well.
Posted on Reply
#12
alexp999
Staff
Eeek said:
Not sure why people are talking back and forth about fair and whats not fair about single vs dual gpu single cards. but facts are whatever your opinion is GTX280 is so far the fastest card. But the price tag of it sort of puts people in a dilema to which of the best they can afford. For the people with a huge pocket can easily afford tri sli gtx280 which looks like will be the best at this point, but No games out there require so much yet. So It looks like a waste of money to me. and by the time there are games that require that much, we'll have a whole new line of generation vgas. as for the price matter. ATI HD4870x2 is going to be around $549, and its official you can google official 4870x2 prices and links will pop up. Now it's already been released in TW a 2GB 4850 DDR3. From powercool. it's on their website under news. So US Price is not determined yet. Which I dont believe is worth buying yet. ASUS/MSI/GIG is also releasing a 1GB 4850 Some time soon, they already have their specs of it on their own websites with aftermarket coolers. Rumors and I say rumors because its not 100% Official yet but has been spoken of supposedly by AMD about another line of x2 which is the 4850x2. It's supposed to be 1GB of DDR5 memory. and also coming out another month or two after the 4870x2. and price is a guess around $399-400. I was hoping they wouldnt so that way 4870 would possibly drop down to 230-250 solid. But on newegg Asus 4870 is already 254 after Rebates. About the rumor on Nvidia Releasing a gx2 model is not entirely true, They are sort of giving up, and starting a whole new redesign of vgas to move onto the new Generation of DDR5. That's also on their site and their Mod closed alot of threads about some gx2 rumor. Not really throwing in their white towl but.. Guys Nvidia decided to team up with ATI. thats right. Because of some dispute between intel and nvidia. Nvidia decided to help ATI/AMD for the battle vs Intel. I was actually an Nvidia Fanboy, Who wasn't when it comes to wanting best performance on a PC. But ATI always had my eye on video quality since the 9800 series. Now save your flames cause I may be alittle outdated but so far what I said was all from a week worth of web browsing and reading a ton of forums and articals. I think it's time for me to go ATI as well.
Any chance you could split that post up a bit so its easier to read, its hurting my eyes, lol! :p
Posted on Reply
#13
Eeek
LoL
Sorry, well if you have questions about what i said just ask and I can just re answer it if it'll make things easier, such as price or the basic specs of whatever youre curious on
sorry for the long post
Posted on Reply
#14
Chicken Patty
WCG Moderator
Good to see the 4870x2 taking it to the GX2 in pretty much most tests i've seen except in crysis. However, keep in mind the GX2 has been out for a bit now, the 4870x2 is not even out, so it'll only get better, way better I suppose.
Posted on Reply
#15
trt740
hayder.master said:
one 4870 better than one gtx 260 , in most tests
no they are about the same
Posted on Reply
#16
trt740
Tatty_One said:
GTX280 is less than $500 in the US now but having said that, I still think the x2 looks the better option, certainly for anyone who needs that power, say someone running 2 monitors at above 1900 resolutions, which I spose is like almost noone really :D
in that case the Asus 3870x2 does 4 monitors and cost 229.00, plus still is a great performer at those resolutions. With physx on this card it would rock aswell.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121247 at half the cost or near so.
Posted on Reply
#17
newconroer
btarunr said:
HardOCP previewed the ATI Radeon HD4870 X2. In the preview it was pitted against a single BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC (overclocked) and Crossfire X setup using two cards was pitted against two GeForce GTX 280 cards in SLI. Across variable settings, the HD4870 X2 was compared to the GTX 280. In Crysis the competition was neck-to-neck while the ATI cards returned marginally lower average frame rates. In Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, the ATI cards outclassed the NVIDIA cards significantly, where the Anti-Aliasing (AA) performance of the cards proved to be a trump-card, with the cards returning over 30% performance increments in both single and Crossfire X configurations over the GeForce GTX 280 OC and its SLI configuration. With the AA bottleneck reduced, the R700 is a monster. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures shows what this card is truly capable of, the author of the preview goes on to use "AMD AA Performance FTW" to head a write-up on the AA system. AMD has reworked AA and also a new mode that doesn't tax the video memory as much has been added. The total of 2 GB GDDR5 memory only helps this cause.

The card in Crossfire X peaked 700W though not much is revealed with the power-testing. You can read the article here.

Source: HardOCP
What did I just hear...lower frame rates in Crysis......... *buzzer sound* next competitor please.

As for the AA comment in AoC, um, for anyone who's actually played the game, and spent several months since beta working on it's engine capabilities, Nvidia cards (and ATi) as far back as the original G80 and 3xxx can handle AA absolutley fine. In fact, due to it's CPU limitations (even at higher resolutions), increasing AA can essentially let the GPUs 'breathe,' like a properly naturally aspirated motor.

I bet they didn't turn on supersampling transparency AA though, nor did they have a fun time watching their frames dip like Crysis when they started casting massive amounts of spells. Do they even use manually edited particle density?

I don't even want to think about what's going to happen to the cards when DX10 hits AoC in a few months.


Anyways, people who review AoC no squat about the game. They still think 3500 distance slider (at max) means your pushing the game as high as it goes ...

I'm really starting to question these crude and unfounded blogs/reviews that pop up on the web and find their way to our forums, via the lovely (no names mentioned) 'news' staff, who end up citing one source who's sited a source and so on and on and on.


Even if the X2 comes out at $499, it's still not worth it for those big on the 'price/performance' pedestal. What can this card possibly offer over a GTX280, 4870 or even a bloody 8800 Ultra? It's not going to reduce minimum frame issues, it's not going to let you run 16x in Crysis, it's not going to stop micro stutter...



I swear I really hope I'm wrong, ATi cannot shoot themselves in the foot right now, by trying to unleash some impractical GPU just so they can take the 'crown' for a few months; especially not when they've already moved on to their next gen products.
Posted on Reply
#18
Chicken Patty
WCG Moderator
newconroer said:
What did I just hear...lower frame rates in Crysis......... *buzzer sound* next competitor please.

As for the AA comment in AoC, um, for anyone who's actually played the game, and spent several months since beta working on it's engine capabilities, Nvidia cards (and ATi) as far back as the original G80 and 3xxx can handle AA absolutley fine. In fact, due to it's CPU limitations (even at higher resolutions), increasing AA can essentially let the GPUs 'breathe,' like a properly naturally aspirated motor.

I bet they didn't turn on supersampling transparency AA though, nor did they have a fun time watching their frames dip like Crysis when they started casting massive amounts of spells. Do they even use manually edited particle density?

I don't even want to think about what's going to happen to the cards when DX10 hits AoC in a few months.


Anyways, people who review AoC no squat about the game. They still think 3500 distance slider (at max) means your pushing the game as high as it goes ...

I'm really starting to question these crude and unfounded blogs/reviews that pop up on the web and find their way to our forums, via the lovely (no names mentioned) 'news' staff, who end up citing one source who's sited a source and so on and on and on.


Even if the X2 comes out at $499, it's still not worth it for those big on the 'price/performance' pedestal. What can this card possibly offer over a GTX280, 4870 or even a bloody 8800 Ultra? It's not going to reduce minimum frame issues, it's not going to let you run 16x in Crysis, it's not going to stop micro stutter...



I swear I really hope I'm wrong, ATi cannot shoot themselves in the foot right now, by trying to unleash some impractical GPU just so they can take the 'crown' for a few months; especially not when they've already moved on to their next gen products.
I realize everybody has their opinions, but keep in mind the 4870x2 has proven to be as good or better than the GTX280/GX2, and they are using beta drivers. These cards aren't even out yet. It has been said that before launch there will be new drivers, and it'll do a lot better on Crysis. Right now Nvidia is getting owned with the bang for the buck ordeal, thats what most people want, good performance for little money. Imagine the 4870x2 for $499???? Who would want a GX280???? Only true Nvidia enthusiasts. Just my two cents. But of course I have the right to be completely wrong as well.
Posted on Reply
#19
Zax85
H82LUZ73 said:
I broke down and got a 4870 Sapphire card and loving the beast...
Good to have you on the right side! ;)


Just waiting for the 4870x2 now (Sapphire offcourse)... ATI for the win!
Posted on Reply
#20
Chicken Patty
WCG Moderator
H82LUZ73 said:
I broke down and got a 4870 Sapphire card and loving the beast...
What did you have before the 4870???
Posted on Reply
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