Monday, July 14th 2008

Radeon HD 4870 X2 Previewed, AA Performance a Trump Card

HardOCP previewed the ATI Radeon HD4870 X2. In the preview it was pitted against a single BFG GeForce GTX 280 OC (overclocked) and Crossfire X setup using two cards was pitted against two GeForce GTX 280 cards in SLI. Across variable settings, the HD4870 X2 was compared to the GTX 280. In Crysis the competition was neck-to-neck while the ATI cards returned marginally lower average frame rates. In Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures, the ATI cards outclassed the NVIDIA cards significantly, where the Anti-Aliasing (AA) performance of the cards proved to be a trump-card, with the cards returning over 30% performance increments in both single and Crossfire X configurations over the GeForce GTX 280 OC and its SLI configuration. With the AA bottleneck reduced, the R700 is a monster. Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures shows what this card is truly capable of, the author of the preview goes on to use "AMD AA Performance FTW" to head a write-up on the AA system. AMD has reworked AA and also a new mode that doesn't tax the video memory as much has been added. The total of 2 GB GDDR5 memory only helps this cause.

The card in Crossfire X peaked 700W though not much is revealed with the power-testing. You can read the article here.Source: HardOCP
Add your own comment

95 Comments on Radeon HD 4870 X2 Previewed, AA Performance a Trump Card

#1
alexp999
Staff
H82LUZ73 said:
1,4870x2+$559=We win
2,4870`s +$329+$329=$658=we loose unless they drop down the 4850 to $150 and the 4870 to $200 mark then we alll win.
Where did u get the price of the 4870X2 from?
Posted on Reply
#2
Megasty
H82LUZ73 said:
1,4870x2+$559=We win
2,4870`s +$329+$329=$658=we loose unless they drop down the 4850 to $150 and the 4870 to $200 mark then we alll win.

PS
How long in real terms do you think customers are going to pay the green camp nearly $800 for 1 card ?( going by pricing in Canada.
I expect by the time this comes out, the 4870 will be officially dropping in price - probably to the $250 lvl. As for the 4850, it should be at the $170 lvl, but you can already get it for that after rebates. But seeing it at that price b4 rebates isn't too far off either.

When it comes to buying a card, it all depends on what camp you prefer - even if you don't perfer any camp at all. There are 3 types of enhusiast level buyers: those who go green, those who go red, & those who go P/P. That's how it should be, even though those who go P/P seem to be the most logical.
Posted on Reply
#3
ShadowFold
The 4850 is already 189$ and the 4870 is 299$. I expect to see them at the prices you just said around launch. Atleast thats what im hoping for :)
Posted on Reply
#4
Wile E
Power User
xubidoo said:
they wouldnt try to run it on a 500/600 .i didnt say they would ,i said they most likely couldnt run a dual card on such a psu ,buy maybe they could run a single card on such a psu.

rubbish over the price anyway ,as ur benchmarking HARDWARE not prices ,its about the results not the price ,unless suddenly cheaper prices make your score increase,now theres a thought :)

the comparable hardware argument i made is over a dual ati over a single nvidia ,when they should both be either dual or single not 1 of each ,you wouldnt bench a single core cpu v a dual core cpu and proudly announce to the world the dual pwnd it would u? its pretty obvious even to a n00b 2 is better than 1.
as for the 2400 v 280 no of course its not fair ,competely diff generations. it should be..

gtx 260/280 VS hd4850/4870 as they are all the newest gens

and 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 as nvidia are lacking anything faster or newer in dual gpu's atm
(replacing the 9800gx2 when and if nvidia come up with something newer)

and i wouldnt be saying on the 4870x2 VS 9800gx2 that the 9800 wins cos its cheaper ,that doesnt matter a bit ,its the results that count ,so obviously the clear winner of that fight is the ATI.

you all want to mix it up and then stick the price in ,fair enough ,is up to u but i think its totally wrong.

this is my last post on the subject as im bored of repeating myself with the rather obvious.
altho i will say this ,i wonder how many ATI fans would be as fast to say the exact same thing they are saying now about ATI if the positions were reversed and the nvidia card was faster and cheaper?
some of course but i suspect not all.
Take note of my specs. I have an nVidia card. If the GTX280 was cheaper than the 4870x2, that's the card that would get my vote. But it isn't, so it doesn't.

And yours is the logic that is flawed. Benchmarks and architectures don't mean crap if a person can't afford to buy the card (ala GTX280).

And yes, I'm perfectly fine with pitting dual core cpus against single core, especially if the single core was more expensive. That situation is no different. Price point is everything in the computer world, and how fair comparisons are judged, not solely by differences in design. Price is ALWAYS a factor.

If price wasn't a factor, it would be fair to compare my QX9650 against a Phenom 9950 X4. I hardly think pitting a $1000 cpu against a $235 cpu is fair, do you?
Posted on Reply
#5
H82LUZ73
alexp999 said:
Where did u get the price of the 4870X2 from?
Seen it on some site ,Just keep seeing the $499 to $549 price tag,I still hope they sell at $499 like the 3870x2 when launched.

Also the price was a guesstimate...

Also the price from retailers depend on the brand,Like Palit selling the 4870 for $319 while the Sapphire goes for $10 more at $329. Same goes on with the 4850`s also.

Also don`t forget that at Driver Heaven they said some companies will have a overclocked versions across the board,Also ATI have said they can up the shader clocks in the second revision`s.If you think what these are doing to Nvidia now what are they going to do in 6 months time when all of this happen`s? I still say ATI is the best at price to performance cost wise.
Posted on Reply
#6
Wshlist
AA, but what kind

If you are talking AA you should really specify what kind, 'box' 'tent' or 'edge', since that makes a difference both in looks and in impact on speed due to how they are implemented.
I know it's more convenient to just put AA on sites and in graphs, but you can't anymore I fear.
Posted on Reply
#7
sfp1987
This makes me hungry yum yum :D
Posted on Reply
#8
alexp999
Staff
H82LUZ73 said:
Seen it on some site ,Just keep seeing the $499 to $549 price tag,I still hope they sell at $499 like the 3870x2 when launched.

Also the price was a guesstimate...

Also the price from retailers depend on the brand,Like Palit selling the 4870 for $319 while the Sapphire goes for $10 more at $329. Same goes on with the 4850`s also.
Okay, just wanted to check you didnt know something we didnt know, lol! I reckon it will definetly sell for $499 cus as just posted in the news, the GTX280 has been dropped to $500.
Posted on Reply
#9
H82LUZ73
alexp999 said:
Okay, just wanted to check you didnt know something we didnt know, lol! I reckon it will definetly sell for $499 cus as just posted in the news, the GTX280 has been dropped to $500.
:)
Posted on Reply
#10
KainXS
xubidoo said:

the comparable hardware argument i made is over a dual ati over a single nvidia ,when they should both be either dual or single not 1 of each ,you wouldnt bench a single core cpu v a dual core cpu and proudly announce to the world the dual pwnd it would u? its pretty obvious even to a n00b 2 is better than 1.
as for the 2400 v 280 no of course its not fair ,competely diff generations. it should be.

this is my last post on the subject as im bored of repeating myself with the rather obvious.
altho i will say this ,i wonder how many ATI fans would be as fast to say the exact same thing they are saying now about ATI if the positions were reversed and the nvidia card was faster and cheaper?
some of course but i suspect not all.
there are always people like this, they say its not fair when it is fair, Is it fair to consumers that Nvidia likes to sell cards for 500 and 600 dollars, costing more than better performing dual GPU solutions, I don't think so, do you, as a matter of fact you should be saying its not fair that Nvidia wants 500 dollars for a card thats sometimes slower than a card that costs 200 dollars less.

This is the second time Nvidia did this, Remember the 8800GTX and Ultra, but what made that different was you had 2 bad ass cards with no competitor in sight and now that there is a competitor its not fair.

oh please, :nutkick:

This all comes down to how much performance you can get for your money and ATI beat Nvidia
It also comes down to how much performance you can get period, and ATI still beat Nvidia

for now, at least
Posted on Reply
#11
vojc
just another thing...if some one say that 4870 x2 sux couse of dual chip on board, than intel quad cpus absolutely suck too (and that is not true)
Posted on Reply
#12
Megasty
KainXS said:
there are always people like this, they say its not fair when it is fair, Is it fair to consumers that Nvidia likes to sell cards for 500 and 600 dollars, costing more than better performing dual GPU solutions, I don't think so, do you, as a matter of fact you should be saying its not fair that Nvidia wants 500 dollars for a card thats sometimes slower than a card that costs 200 dollars less.

This is the second time Nvidia did this, Remember the 8800GTX and Ultra, but what made that different was you had 2 bad ass cards with no competitor in sight and now that there is a competitor its not fair.

oh please, :nutkick:

This all comes down to how much performance you can get for your money and ATI beat Nvidia
It also comes down to how much performance you can get period, and ATI still beat Nvidia

for now, at least
NV's stupid price complex always stand proud when they think its not going to have any competition. It bit them in the ass this time around. I really don't know why the charged so much for the thing when everybody & their mother knew the 4870x2 was right around the corner. Sure it was the fastest thing around for a month but NV took it for face value this time - then the next day the face value dropped by a forth :wtf:
Posted on Reply
#13
DarkMatter
How is it that everybody forgot to talk about power consumption and temperatures? For me 90ºC at idle and 359 (468-109) watt power draw is unnaceptable, even for the fastest card in the world. Was not GTX280 unnaceptable with it's 236 watts? It was for me, now think what I think about this. And they don't show idle power, but looking at HD Crossfire cards I can get an idea.

There are other concerns aside from performance and price. I have heard enough stories of HD4870's failling on hot areas to even consider this a valid card.

I don't care if Ati uses 2 GPUs to compete with 1 GPU as long as it can perform well on all fronts. This is just not the way IMHO. It is delivering the performance, but the performance of the card doesn't justify that power draw. That's why I strongly believe 2 GPUs will never be able to compete with one faster/bigger GPU. It does now in perf/price, but that's only because Ati is using an smaller fab process and a narrower memory bus. But is underperforming vastly on power consumption and temps. With this card Ati has left me the impression that whenever Nvidia starts using a smaller process and GDDR5, the monolithic design (whichever it is) will destroy any multi-GPU, be it at performance, price, consumption, whatever.
Posted on Reply
#14
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
100W more is just $1.00 /month extra of electricity bill for me :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#15
InnocentCriminal
Resident Grammar Amender
btarunr said:
100W more is just $1.00 /month extra of electricity bill for me :laugh:
It's alright for some. :shadedshu
Posted on Reply
#16
DarkMatter
btarunr said:
100W more is just $1.00 /month extra of electricity bill for me :laugh:
Because of how much I use the PC, it's more than 4 euros month for me and around 50 euros year. That's without taking into account the extra conditioning that would be required to not get cooked myself with such temperatures (hmm forget about that: I would save in the winter :roll:). I change cards every two years, that's a difference of more than 100 euros. Get the picture?
Posted on Reply
#17
Megasty
With all the GD PCs in my house, my el-bill is about $200 a month, an extra $1-2 for a 100W difference ain't gonna do me a bit of good :( I even have a few solar panels on my roof - they don't help at all :cry:
Posted on Reply
#18
btarunr
Editor & Senior Moderator
It's not going to run at peak wattage all throughout? What is its idle wattage? Do you use some OS from the future that displays everything in SM 4.1 rendered graphics? Isn't there an AMD feature that underclocks this to up to 350MHz when idle? Doesn't the AMD slide show 100% more performance/watt over R680?
Posted on Reply
#19
alexp999
Staff
Hmm. I'm gonna have to give the GTX280 some serious consideration now. I was set on getting the 4870X2. But now the GTX280 is going for the same price. There are some aspects about the nvidia drivers which I really do prefer. (like being able to use nhancer) and setting game profiles much easier. Oh and being able to use EVGA precision :D .

There is also the fact that the GTX280 consumes less power and will never have any issues with some games which dont get on with SLI/crossfire as it is a single GPU card.

But I dont know if future ATi drivers will cause the 4870X2 to pull ahead and make me think, "i wish I had bought..."

Cus it has twice the amount of ram at GDDR5 as opposed to GDDR3

Ah! I'm so confused as to which to get.

What is everyone else thinking?
Posted on Reply
#20
InnocentCriminal
Resident Grammar Amender
I think it's a little to early to say, hold out until the new Catalyst drivers out, see how they improve your 3870 and the 4K series and once the retail X2's hit the market then make a decision. Don't forget these are engineering examples.
Posted on Reply
#21
alexp999
Staff
InnocentCriminal said:
I think it's a little to early to say, hold out until the new Catalyst drivers out, see how they improve your 3870 and the 4K series and once the retail X2's hit the market then make a decision. Don't forget these are engineering examples.
True, I really hope they sort out the power consumption issues. 350W is ridiculous.

If they sort out the power issues, and the Cat drivers pull the 4870X2 even further ahead. I will probably get the 4870X2 . 100W of power really isnt worth it IMO when playing at 1680x1050.
Posted on Reply
#22
HTC
alexp999 said:
I thought the 4870X2 would be sold for $500 as AMD said they would never sell a GFX card for more than that.

Also, if the GTX280 is the same size as a 4870X2. Imagine the size of a GTX280GX2! :eek:

Don't forget people, AMD and nvidia have gone about this different ways. Nvidia has a massively powerful but expensive single GPU. AMD has two less powerful and less expensive GPU's. Who cares. It has to be down to price/performance ratio. Even if nvidia do bring out a GX2 of the 280. (if they can fit it all onto one PCB) it will probably still be cheaper to buy two 4870X2's.
H82LUZ73 said:
1,4870x2+$559=We win
2,4870`s +$329+$329=$658=we loose unless they drop down the 4850 to $150 and the 4870 to $200 mark then we all win.

PS
How long in real terms do you think customers are going to pay the green camp nearly $800 for 1 card ?( going by pricing in Canada.
alexp999 said:
Okay, just wanted to check you didnt know something we didnt know, lol! I reckon it will definetly sell for $499 cus as just posted in the news, the GTX280 has been dropped to $500.
By the time it's released, both 4850 and 4870 should have fallen in price enough to make ATI able to price it @ $499.

Or do you dudes think only nVidia can lower card prices?


Many dudes say "OK: a GTX260 card for $299 is worth it" ... except the 4870 has already fallen to $304 and i wouldn't be surprised if it would fall to something like 249 within a month's time, which is when the R700 is launched ...

Can nVidia match 4870's price, VS GTX260 in a month from now? It might, but only if losing money, badly: it should cost more to build, no?
Posted on Reply
#23
InnocentCriminal
Resident Grammar Amender
alexp999 said:
True, I really hope they sort out the power consumption issues. 350W is ridiculous.

If they sort out the power issues, and the Cat drivers pull the 4870X2 even further ahead. I will probably get the 4870X2 . 100W of power really isnt worth it IMO when playing at 1680x1050.
Exactly! I don't play higher than 1680 x 1050 and I don't need to. I'd like to, but it's more than enough. The 4870X2 and the GTX280 are for people with 24" monitors and above. Having a 4870X2 or the a like would be pretty wasted on a monitor lower than that (for me anyway) the extra power consumption isn't enough to warrant me to buy one, especially as it'll be more expensive in the long run. Yeah, I'd be able to up the details and enjoy that at 1680 x 1050, the thing is I'm not sure if I would as I'd be worrying about my leccy bill too much. :(
Posted on Reply
#24
HTC
InnocentCriminal said:
Exactly! I don't play higher than 1680 x 1050 and I don't need to. I'd like to, but it's more than enough. The 4870X2 and the GTX280 are for people with 24" monitors and above. Having a 4870X2 or the a like would be pretty wasted on a monitor lower than that (for me anyway) the extra power consumption isn't enough to warrant me to buy one, especially as it'll be more expensive in the long run. Yeah, I'd be able to up the details and enjoy that at 1680 x 1050, the thing is I'm not sure if I would as I'd be worrying about my leccy bill too much. :(
That's why they call this a high end card.

Wouldn't you agree?
Posted on Reply
Add your own comment