Always-on internet DRM: will you be boycotting Ubisoft?

[cadaveca]

Considering all Valve games report back every in-game movement you make, you call Ubisoft's DRM "intrusive"?




NO boycotts here, I just simply don't care. Sometimes you gotta suck up that bottom lip, put on your "game face" and take it like a man.

 

[qubit]

Considering all Valve games report back every in-game movement you make, you call Ubisoft's DRM "intrusive"?




NO boycotts here, I just simply don't care. Sometimes you gotta suck up that bottom lip, put on your "game face" and take it from behind.

There, fixed. Really, that's how I feel about accepting this particular DRM.

Yes, I have always known that Steam collect "usage" stats, which raises all the usual privacy concerns (and I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the factors putting Scammy off Steam). Despite this though, stat collecting is not intrusive at all, just invisible. I've had Steam since 2004 and not once have I felt that something untoward has happened due to their usage monitoring. Something that can't be said for requiring a permanent internet connection, especially when their servers go down.

 

[Batou1986]

Considering all Valve games report back every in-game movement you make, you call Ubisoft's DRM "intrusive"?

You mean basically like any other game out there that has some sort of rank, unlock, achievement, etc how else are you going to get an achievement for doing 1000 double jumps.

Ubisofts DRM is intrusive because its not just monitoring the game its monitoring your system.

Will my steam games not work because I use virtual drive software on my pc for things like bf2 which the dvd got ruined? no

Will i run into all sorts problems with ubisoft drm client because of the same thing ??
Magic 8 ball says definitely.

 

[scaminatrix]

Hey, ok no problem. You've got that account so you know what it's like; fair enough.

Would you be interested in DRM-free games from www.gog.com then? They're download only too and you can download them as many time as you like, too. (For a moment, put aside the fact that you may not actually want to play those old games, it's the delivery method I'm concentrating on here.)

Short answer; yea, I would be a bit more willing due to no DRM but there's still the other things I don't like. It's one of those things that I might change my mind over time, I just need a really good reason (like a game I really want to play).

 

[cadaveca]

There, fixed. Really, that's how I feel about accepting this particular DRM.

Yes, I have always known that Steam collect "usage" stats, which raises all the usual privacy concerns (and I wouldn't be surprised if this is one of the factors putting Scammy off Steam). Despite this though, stat collecting is not intrusive at all, just invisible. I've had Steam since 2004 and not once have I felt that something untoward has happened due to their usage monitoring. Something that can't be said for requiring a permanent internet connection, especially when their servers go down.

Yeah, I remember the server issues, as I do STEAMs server issues on countless releases. I also seem to remeeber a specfic hacker group being responible for the issues with UBIsoft authentication servers. So don't blame UBI...blame the hackers responsible.

The fact of the matter is that neither is entirely perfect, but you know what...?

I don't care. I own all of the titles affected by UBI's "PLAY" DRM, and it doesn't really bother me much. When things weren'r working, I knew it was the result of hackers, so I blame the hackers/pirates, not UBI.

I mean, it's no big deal...people intrude upon my life on a daily basis. A company wants to, to serve me better products. I can accept that. To me, it's no differnt than having to paly a game on online servers only, such as BC2, or WoW. Those servers go down, you're jsut as SOL.

Or, how about the STEAM network issues during the recent sale?

I mean, sure, the services aren't perfect, but typically, it's not entirely either companies fault when issues arise.

 

[Iceni]

What bothers me isn't the always on DRM or steam.

Personally i own no games that use either.

My concern is what happens in 3-10 years time when the company no longer want to spend money with said server for DRM for said game? Is the online DRM the same server for all games, Or is there a specific one per game. When they no longer want to have that server running how are people going to play the game?

I like my games on disc, I play old as well as new titles, And some of the games i play are real old and by companies that no longer exist.... If ubisoft were to be bought out would they retain the IP for there games then charge a subscription for their DRM service??

And the best bit of all is some pirate will still break the DRM... The challenge has been set, and they always seem to rise to the occasion.

 

[xenocide]

I consider DRM the ultimate illogical technology. It's punishing paying customers for the actions of people they don't even know. It's almost as bad as having to sit through 3 Copyright\FBI\Anti-Piracy screens and a short video about it on a dvd\blu-ray you actually bought. Luckily for me, Ubisoft games suck (imo) so I don't have to put up with it. Between this and Uplay, you can tell they are just trying to cover up for their lack of ability to make competative products that people actually want to buy. I never see a problem with Blizzard Products selling...

 

[qubit]

Yeah, I remember the server issues, as I do STEAMs server issues on countless releases. I also seem to remeeber a specfic hacker group being responible for the issues with UBIsoft authentication servers. So don't blame UBI...blame the hackers responsible.

The fact of the matter is that neither is entirely perfect, but you know what...?

I don't care. I own all of the titles affected by UBI's "PLAY" DRM, and it doesn't really bother me much. When things weren'r working, I knew it was the result of hackers, so I blame the hackers/pirates, not UBI.

I mean, it's no big deal...people intrude upon my life on a daily basis. A company wants to, to serve me better products. I can accept that. To me, it's no differnt than having to paly a game on online servers only, such as BC2, or WoW. Those servers go down, you're jsut as SOL.

Or, how about the STEAM network issues during the recent sale?

I mean, sure, the services aren't perfect, but typically, it's not entirely either companies fault when issues arise.

Well, it's not the same thing at all. Server issues when trying to buy a game are simply a borked service, like any other and they can be rated on it like any other service. It's requiring their infrastructure to work just to play the game you forked hard cash for that's the issue.

But hey, if you're ok with Ubisoft's DRM and are happy to continue buying their products, you won't find me knocking you for it. Having a choice is the whole point of a democracy.

Of course, from my point of view, I would prefer it for everyone to boycott them so that they stop doing this sharpish, then we'd all benefit.

What bothers me isn't the always on DRM or steam.

Personally i own no games that use either.

My concern is what happens in 3-10 years time when the company no longer want to spend money with said server for DRM for said game? Is the online DRM the same server for all games, Or is there a specific one per game. When they no longer want to have that server running how are people going to play the game?

I like my games on disc, I play old as well as new titles, And some of the games i play are real old and by companies that no longer exist.... If ubisoft were to be bought out would they retain the IP for there games then charge a subscription for their DRM service??

And the best bit of all is some pirate will still break the DRM... The challenge has been set, and they always seem to rise to the occasion.

You make some very good points. It effectively places an undefined expiry date on a product that isn't sold with one, making it effectively obsolete. Isn't this breaking the terms of the contract? This is true for Steam as well, which is unsettling.

The only possible "upside" to this is that one is not all that likely to be playing such old games so it may not affect you, although that's not always true.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

No influence. I gave up on Ubisoft years ago. After having the same game released three times, I didn't think spending any money on their games was worthwhile.

As far as DRM, I hope this goes like Mass Effect. Once the fan base complained enough they fixed the DRM to be more reasonable.

Even if they fix it, I still won't be purchasing the game. Does it count as a boycott, or just apathy?

 

[qubit]

No influence. I gave up on Ubisoft years ago. After having the same game released three times, I didn't think spending any money on their games was worthwhile.

As far as DRM, I hope this goes like Mass Effect. Once the fan base complained enough they fixed the DRM to be more reasonable.

Even if they fix it, I still won't be purchasing the game. Does it count as a boycott, or just apathy?

I think a bit of both. Put it this way: it certainly puts you off buying their games doesn't it? (and I see you voted yes. )

 

[STCNE]

Considering all Valve games report back every in-game movement you make, you call Ubisoft's DRM "intrusive"?




NO boycotts here, I just simply don't care. Sometimes you gotta suck up that bottom lip, put on your "game face" and take it like a man.

But Valve won't kick you out of the game if your net goes down, I have a really unstable connection and it hiccups quite often, so yeah, I guess I'm boycotting Ubi, I loved the old Splinter Cells, but they haven't released anything decent in years.

 

[Wile E]

If you have a decent internet connection and you like a game published by UBi then why not buy it? Already the majority of the games if not all require an activation through the net. 90% of my games are bought through steam which requires internet connection so what's the big deal?

There's a big difference between a one time or periodic key check/activation and requiring a constant on internet connection, even for single player games. When my net goes out, I like to play games to pass time. Guess what games I can't play.

Na nothing to do with security - just a personal choice really. I connect it to the net to do updates but since I don't play games online I don't see any reason why it should be connected if you know what I mean.
It's kinda the flip-side of what this thread's hinting on - I'm not going to be forced into connecting my gaming rig to the net just to play a single-player campaign.

I think the easiest way to see it is - I've got my internet PC for the net and my gaming rig for gaming. I don't see any point in mixing the two if I'm not going to play online.

I know, I'm a confusing mf'er!!

There's an offline mode in Steam.

Yeah, I remember the server issues, as I do STEAMs server issues on countless releases. I also seem to remeeber a specfic hacker group being responible for the issues with UBIsoft authentication servers. So don't blame UBI...blame the hackers responsible.

The fact of the matter is that neither is entirely perfect, but you know what...?

I don't care. I own all of the titles affected by UBI's "PLAY" DRM, and it doesn't really bother me much. When things weren'r working, I knew it was the result of hackers, so I blame the hackers/pirates, not UBI.

I mean, it's no big deal...people intrude upon my life on a daily basis. A company wants to, to serve me better products. I can accept that. To me, it's no differnt than having to paly a game on online servers only, such as BC2, or WoW. Those servers go down, you're jsut as SOL.

Or, how about the STEAM network issues during the recent sale?

I mean, sure, the services aren't perfect, but typically, it's not entirely either companies fault when issues arise.

How exactly is including more intrusive DRM serving you a better product?

And again, Steam has an offline mode, so if my net goes down, I can still play.

That said, I won't buy any entertainment product that goes this far with DRM, be it games, movies, TV or music. I want to be able to use the content in the way that best suits me, not the one that best suits the bean counters.

 

[cadaveca]

But Valve won't kick you out of the game if your net goes down, I have a really unstable connection and it hiccups quite often, so yeah, I guess I'm boycotting Ubi, I loved the old Splinter Cells, but they haven't released anything decent in years.

Can't say I ever really had any issues, other than spring of 2010.

How exactly is including more intrusive DRM serving you a better product?

And again, Steam has an offline mode, so if my net goes down, I can still play.

That said, I won't buy any entertainment product that goes this far with DRM, be it games, movies, TV or music. I want to be able to use the content in the way that best suits me, not the one that best suits the bean counters.

Like I said..how do people deal with WoW being only playable online? And they pay MONTHLY...and it's subject to the exact same issues...Just liek the literal thousands of hours between members here on Bad Company 2...there's been many times when none of us could play.

I don't care how "intrusive" any DRM software is. It's not stealing my money via illegal means...just the money i gave over willingly. I don't do anything on my PC is need to hide, other than maybe some stuff under NDA, and I don't game on the PC I use for that stuff anyway. So they are more than welcome to see what's on my pc, or whatever.

Clearly UBISoft feels that having such software benefits them in some way, and that, in turn, means they are able to provide me with more content, good or bad.

I don't have much need for privacy. Financial privacy, sure, but that's something different. Intimate privacy with my wife, sure, that too, but again, that's something completely different. Privacy pertaining to what I use my gaming PC for...nope. Don't care. Heck UBISoft staff could come and sit in my livingroom while I work, if they can keep quiet.


I really don't see what's so "intrusive", or bad. Ok, needing internet while playing is an inconvenience, but that's all it is, to me, and it didn't really affect me much.

Keep in mind, I own these games that so many are complaining aobut, and boycotting. I think it's a bit asinine to complain about something you've not experienced. I did experience it, and I'm not complaining. Neither are millions of WoW players.

I mean, really, this is borderline FUD, which, of course, is against forum rules.

As a musician and an artist, I don't neccesarily need to use stuff the way I personally want..sometimes I want to enjoy things they way they were intended to be.

FYI, you best read EULAs...you have very little rights to how you use many softwares, in fact, modding games, for some, is against the EULA.

Instead of modding though, I'll just buy a different game.

 

[Mussels]

I don't know whether I have an opinion mainly due to ignorance I don't buy Steam games, I only buy physical copies. Would this affect me since I don't partake in these digital downloads?

I suppose what I'm asking is - do any physical copies of games have any always-on DRM?

yes, thats the problem. retail disc copies MUST have an always on internet connection that never drops out. i dunno about you, but on wireless i get dropouts sometimes, and it'd piss me off for my game to pause/disconnect etc.

If you have a decent internet connection and you like a game published by UBi then why not buy it? Already the majority of the games if not all require an activation through the net. 90% of my games are bought through steam which requires internet connection so what's the big deal?

the difference is that while these other games and programs require internet to START the game, they do not require it to be connected while playing. if you get a brief hiccup to your net, bam, you lose your progress in game. assasins creed 2 did this, it'd drop you back to the main menu basically killing your progress in a level.

 

[qubit]

I think it's a bit asinine to complain about something you've not experienced. I did experience it, and I'm not complaining. Neither are millions of WoW players.

I mean, really, this is borderline FUD, which, of course, is against forum rules.

Hey, that's out of line!

I respected your opinion in my last post to you. Now don't start calling people assinine and calling out FUD just because you're so "ok" with it. Do you have shares in Ubisoft, perhaps?

Just look at the votes, most people strongly disagree with you - and they're right. It's very obvious what's wrong with this DRM, as has been explained several times over on this thread. It's not rocket science.

 

[Mussels]

an online game requires you to be online by definition - a single player game shouldnt. thats the whole point people play them when they have no internet.


even a primarily online game like starcraft II works when you lose connection to battle.net to let you do SP and skirmish games - shit, i've had net issues the last week or so and kept getting messages saying "Lost connection to Battle.net" while happily playing 4v4 games online.

If this was an Ubisoft game, i'd have been automatically disconnected just for being unable to ping one server of theirs.


Not to mention that ubi arent as big as blizzard or valve, so they wont have as many of these servers. theres only a few worldwide (meaning higher chances of something between you and the server going wrong)

 

[cadaveca]

Hey, that's out of line!

I respected your opinion in my last post to you. Now don't start calling people assinine and calling out FUD just because you're so "ok" with it. Do you have shares in Ubisoft, perhaps?

Just look at the votes, most people strongly disagree with you - and they're right. It's very obvious what's wrong with this DRM, as has been explained several times over on this thread. It's not rocket science.

I think, in ANYTHING, without experience, there's no point in commenting. It's like saying AMD drivers are bad, and never having owned an AMD GPU...how would you know?

Like I said, the needing the internet while playing is kinda silly. I agree with that not being needed, however, because of online-only games that already exist, I see it as a non issue.

And yes, it's FUD to say I'm wrong, and that you are right, when really, it's jsut opinions, and nobody is wrong, specifically with topics like this one.

I am not "wrong". My opinion is no, it's not a problem for me, and yes, I use the software, and it seems as an inconvienince only, one that I'm willing to deal with.

I don't see any other problems with it. STEAM does everything else anyway, adn while the UBI "PLAY" service kinda sucks in it's restrictions, it's an infant in terms of online services, so I'm not about to blindly accept that things will always be the way they are now.

I'd rather use the service, and then, as an actual user, provide feedback that may then affect future developlment. you know, actually do something, rather than just simply complain about it, because we both know that the chances of doing so affecting anything are very small.

At the same time, your opinion that it completley sucks, and not for you, is just as valid as my own. However, I'm not the one starting the thread trying to convince others it's the devil's spawn. And I'm not saying specifically you are, but others definitely are.

I mean, it's pretty plain that you don't want the thread shut down, beucase you feel it's important for others to see this, and the thread, in hopes they'll boycott too. I never said it was FUD, but borderline, and you better beleive passing off your own agenda is FUD.

BTW, I'm usually the odd man out for most things, so that's nothing new. I simply have better things to complain about than about how some game developer's app works.

 

[twilyth]

I think the only thing companies understand is the bottom line. If you don't like something and continue to pay for a service, there's no incentive to change. Companies don't give a flying crap about the "user experience" as long as the cash keeps rolling in. The only way they listen to your suggestions is when they see a hit to their bottom line and need your input to try to stop the hemorrhaging.

I have no opinion about Ubi or anyone else being pretty much a non-gamer. That's just economic reality.

 

[Wile E]

Can't say I ever really had any issues, other than spring of 2010.

Every time my net goes down, I can not play a title with this drm. My net goes down quite a bit. And before you suggest it, there are no better options in my area.

I think it's assinine to just accept that what a publisher tells me is the best option for me.

Like I said..how do people deal with WoW being only playable online? And they pay MONTHLY...and it's subject to the exact same issues...Just liek the literal thousands of hours between members here on Bad Company 2...there's been many times when none of us could play.

I don't care how "intrusive" any DRM software is. It's not stealing my money via illegal means...just the money i gave over willingly. I don't do anything on my PC is need to hide, other than maybe some stuff under NDA, and I don't game on the PC I use for that stuff anyway. So they are more than welcome to see what's on my pc, or whatever.

Clearly UBISoft feels that having such software benefits them in some way, and that, in turn, means they are able to provide me with more content, good or bad.

I don't have much need for privacy. Financial privacy, sure, but that's something different. Intimate privacy with my wife, sure, that too, but again, that's something completely different. Privacy pertaining to what I use my gaming PC for...nope. Don't care. Heck UBISoft staff could come and sit in my livingroom while I work, if they can keep quiet.


I really don't see what's so "intrusive", or bad. Ok, needing internet while playing is an inconvenience, but that's all it is, to me, and it didn't really affect me much.

Keep in mind, I own these games that so many are complaining aobut, and boycotting. I think it's a bit asinine to complain about something you've not experienced. I did experience it, and I'm not complaining. Neither are millions of WoW players.

I mean, really, this is borderline FUD, which, of course, is against forum rules.

As a musician and an artist, I don't neccesarily need to use stuff the way I personally want..sometimes I want to enjoy things they way they were intended to be.

FYI, you best read EULAs...you have very little rights to how you use many softwares, in fact, modding games, for some, is against the EULA.

Instead of modding though, I'll just buy a different game.

Well duh. WoW is a multiplayer online game. Of course it requires a connection. We aren't talking about that. Ubi requires a connection for single player games with no online features. This is the type of thing I am referring to. There is no reason to require a connection for games with no online features (or game modes that require no online features). And without net I most certainly can still play BC2. It has a single player mode that does not require net to play.

Intrusive to me is stuff that can bork my system or my gameplay experience. I don't care about, nor did I bring up data mining or anything like that.

This DRM does not give you better and more content. Quite the opposite. It costs them server and dev money that could have otherwise been used on real content on their games. DRM costs money, and that cost is pulled out of dev money, or is passed on to us consumers. I don't give a shit if it benefits Ubi, I only care if it benefits us.

That's not the aspect I am concerned with.

Already commented on.

I have experienced it, that's why I'm complaining and boycotting.

I see no FUD. You need a connection to play these games, even in modes that do not have online features. That's a fact. A fact that has many of us upset.

You being an artist and musician bears no relevance to this topic.

I don't give a shit what EULAs state. If what they state is unfair, it is unfair, and I have no remorse breaking them.

Or how about I just mod them, and use them the way I want, and to hell with what anyone else thinks? But I don't buy titles with this type of drm, so I guess that's a moot point anyway.

I think, in ANYTHING, without experience, there's no point in commenting. It's like saying AMD drivers are bad, and never having owned an AMD GPU...how would you know?

Like I said, the needing the internet while playing is kinda silly. I agree with that not being needed, however, because of online-only games that already exist, I see it as a non issue.

And yes, it's FUD to say I'm wrong, and that you are right, when really, it's jsut opinions, and nobody is wrong, specifically with topics like this one.

I am not "wrong". My opinion is no, it's not a problem for me, and yes, I use the software, and it seems as an inconvienince only, one that I'm willing to deal with.

I don't see any other problems with it. STEAM does everything else anyway, adn while the UBI "PLAY" service kinda sucks in it's restrictions, it's an infant in terms of online services, so I'm not about to blindly accept that things will always be the way they are now.

I'd rather use the service, and then, as an actual user, provide feedback that may then affect future developlment. you know, actually do something, rather than just simply complain about it, because we both know that the chances of doing so affecting anything are very small.

At the same time, your opinion that it completley sucks, and not for you, is just as valid as my own. However, I'm not the one starting the thread trying to convince others it's the devil's spawn. And I'm not saying specifically you are, but others definitely are.

I mean, it's pretty plain that you don't want the thread shut down, beucase you feel it's important for others to see this, and the thread, in hopes they'll boycott too. I never said it was FUD, but borderline, and you better beleive passing off your own agenda is FUD.

BTW, I'm usually the odd man out for most things, so that's nothing new. I simply have better things to complain about than about how some game developer's app works.

Not buying a product because of this DRM sends them feedback as well. It's called speaking with your wallet, and if enough people do it, they are forced to change or perish (all the while likely blaming pirates for their failures, and not themselves.)

I think it's dumb not to complain, otherwise they will not know there are people dissatisfied with certain aspects of their products. The dumbest thing to do is to just shut up and take it.

 

[cadaveca]

Ubi requires a connection for single player games with no online features.

This DRM does not give you better and more content.

OK, so, for the single player, U-Play, via acheivements, offers additional singleplayer content. get acheivements, get points for U-Play, redeem them for content in ANY U-Play activated game. PC or console, your choice how you spend the "credits".

This is UBIs way of addressing that concern. I thought you've got that experience?

I think it's dumb not to complain, otherwise they will not know there are people dissatisfied with certain aspects of their products. The dumbest thing to do is to just shut up and take it.

Sure. I agree. But I think you have more power as a BUYING customer giving feedback, rather than one that doesn't buy.


I mean, the only...ONLY issue is the fact it requires you to be online while playing. I have a very reliable internet connection...as should everyone. The problem that your internet drops isn't the publisher's fault...I mean it sucks, but really, this only agrivates a problem that you already had.

 

[Mussels]

. But I think you have more power as a BUYING customer giving feedback, rather than one that doesn't buy.

all they see is sales. if a game with DRM sold well, customers want DRM.


if the game flops, then they'll ask why.

 

[Wile E]

OK, so, for the single player, U-Play, via acheivements, offers additional singleplayer content.

This is UBIs way of addressing that concern. I thought you've got that experience?



Sure. I agree. But I think you have more power as a BUYING customer giving feedback, rather than one that doesn't buy.

Achievements do me no good if I can't play the damn game.

Besides, they can do achievements without the need for constantly being online. Everybody else seems to have managed it. No they just threw that in there as a convenient excuse to justify this ridiculous DRM. Just coding for achievements would have been a hell of a lot cheaper than coding it into a drm scheme. So no, you are still cheated out of content and/or money.

 

[cadaveca]

Sure, I agree, but at least they taken some sort of step to address the issue.

I jsut look at it like some little baby STEAM or something...it's not quite ready to walk yet, nevermind run.

 

[Wile E]

Sure, I agree, but at least they taken some sort of step to address the issue.

The only acceptable step for me is to allow gameplay without a constant online connection. I don't care if they require online activation or be like steam or what have you, but the constant connection requirement needs to go for me to buy these titles, period.

That is my statement to Ubi. If they want my money, change this aspect. I'm not on an all-out anti-drm-on-games tirade. I just want reasonable DRM on my games. I just don't find this scheme to be reasonable.

Off topic: I will not accept drm on my music purchases, ebook or digital movie purchases, however, with the exception of those formats whose drm has already been cracked and are easy to strip. I want to be able to use them across multiple devices, or in the case of ebooks, find the best deal and use them on my Nook.

 

[Mussels]

Sure, I agree, but at least they taken some sort of step to address the issue.

no, thats not a step to address the issue at all. its a lame excuse.


you can get achievements offline without any hassle, and you can play games offline without a problem.

they just slapped the two in together "oh you have to be online... but it gets you achievments!"