I need a complete new system, what CPU should I get first.

[GorbazTheDragon]

Having used a pretty fast 4790k before, anything skylake and newer is a massive upgrade as far as game performance goes... These older intel chips are also horribly overpriced on the second hand market imho.

 

[eidairaman1]

About AMD. I feel where you came from performance whise. Before ryzen, amd chips whas like to me. Phenom and phenom 2 slow and there later FX series dit not impresse me. However as Intel has been stuck on 14 NM cpu design since late 2014 and by that only gained small performance boost and with that amd with ryzen has manage to al most match Intel in game performance and out performe Intel in many other task with there latest ryzen 3000 series.

With that said, the cheap upgrade is to swap your i5 4670K out with a core I7 4790K and overclock the crap out of it and then upgrade that old gpu. But beware I7 4790K can as other older hardware be overpriced at some places. So take time to chack prices if you go this route.

For new upgrade path, don't go for less than 6 cores and 12 threads. Games likes threads and cores these days more than ever. So either go for a used I7 8700K or a Ryzen 3600 for minimum. Optimum would be 8 cores/16 threads so i9 9900K or ryzen 3700X. I will not recommend I7 9700K as I have seen games make this cpu peak at 100 % load now and then. Reason is that it might have 8 cores but also only 8 threads and as said before games like threads these days and can take advantage of hyper threading/SMT. So a 6 core/12 thread cpu will perform better than a pure 8 core cpu in some games. Test has even shown that dissable ht/smt even on cpu with 12 cores can negative effect game performance not by much, but there can be a loss of a few fps. Piont don't bay a pure 8 core cpu with out ht/smt.

There are also Intel comet lake, but besides a few ekstra cores I don't think it will offer much higher performance gain over i9 9900K as comet lake is still a 14 nm node and ryzen 3000 is 7 nm node just to a comparison. The ekstra performance from comet lake over coffee lake/9000 series will mostly come from higher clock speed and not from better IPC.

Now i have given my opinion. But the choice is yours.

Phenom 2 wasn't slow.

The only FX worth having were the 8320/50/70 or 9370/9590.

 

[Tomgang]

Phenom 2 wasn't slow.

The only FX worth having were the 8320/50/70 or 9370/9590.

Maybe not slow in its self. But slow compared to intels offer at that time.

Neither Phenom or FX/Bulldozer impressed me at all and that's whas one of the reasons I chose Intel and X58 back them over amd as there cpu offer where no match for X58. First with Ryzen 3000 amd got my attention again and I am planning to upgrade to a Ryzen 9 3950X cpu in fact.

 

[AlienIsGOD]

Having used a 3570K and an fx 8350 for several years, I can say that my r7 2700 is a huge improvement. 3700 would be even better for amd route. I have a platform to that will last me many years aside from gpu/hdd or ssd/ram upgrades if choose to do so.

 

[Lionheart]

OP stated his view about AMD so please respect that

I don't respect it, it's close minded asf.

 

[freeagent]

Here in Canada a 3800X is 489 and tax, and the 9700K is 10 bucks more. The 3900x is 709 and tax and the 9900K is 639.. Second gen Ryzen is cheap, but the boards aren't if you want something nice. x570 boards are just as expensive if not more so than nice Intel boards. Yeah if you go with a cheap 6 core and b450 you can have some savings, but at the cost of running a b450 board.

 

[Darmok N Jalad]

I'd just get a new GPU and see how it treats you. The 660 Ti is by no means a barn burner. Anything modern from the RX 570 on up will give you way more frames. If it still isn't good enough, build a new rig and take the GPU with you.

 

[Hyderz]

How about this?
Theres always gonna be new stuff releasing around the corner, id recommend you change your gpu maybe to a rx570,580 or 1660 if you want nvidia.
Then when Cyberpunk 2077 released build your new rig, sell your old parts including the recent purchased gpu and get something faster?

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

Buying new cards and selling them shortly after is a great way to lose money... If you want to spend little for a short term solution get used stuff, cheaper and tends to lose less value.

 

[Boni]

IMHO, Ryzens still have a bit lower IPC then it's Intel counterparts. If you want a workstation or light server, I'd dare say Ryzen is better. However, if you want to play on 240HZ screen in 4K, I'd say go with Intel. For most people, ryzen is currently optimal choice.

On the other hand, your CPU still isn't obsolete and can handle a lot of things. All you basically need is a GPU, as strong as you can get.

 

[ratirt]

Buy used rx 570/580 or 1060/1660 class GPU and you are good. Cyberpunk shows up then you decide what upgrades you need.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

IMHO, Ryzens still have a bit lower IPC then it's Intel counterparts. If you want a workstation or light server, I'd dare say Ryzen is better. However, if you want to play on 240HZ screen in 4K, I'd say go with Intel. For most people, ryzen is currently optimal choice.

On the other hand, your CPU still isn't obsolete and can handle a lot of things. All you basically need is a GPU, as strong as you can get.

Per core IPC doesn't really do much for games, it's mostly in branch prediction, cache, and memory performance.

Depends a lot on the games too, CS:GO for example runs way smoother on zen2 than anything intel, in a few rare examples zen2 struggles to get much better than half the minimum framerates, but in the vast majority of cases it in single digit %... The 9700/9900k (OCed to hell) is probarbly going to be the winner for 240Hz, but never in value. The value proposition is honestly too bad to consider it unless you are looking at a specific game that doesn't run well on zen2.

Haswell 4c4t isn't enough for 144Hz in a lot of games, it has nowhere near enough multicore power to push the likes of BFV at high framerates.

 

[andiey]

Again, thanks a million to all of your responses, they are really up to the point and very helpful!

How about this?
Theres always gonna be new stuff releasing around the corner, id recommend you change your gpu maybe to a rx570,580 or 1660 if you want nvidia.
Then when Cyberpunk 2077 released build your new rig, sell your old parts including the recent purchased gpu and get something faster?

Great idea! It also depends on the games which I play. If I skip Cyberpunk 2077, I can still be very happy with the new rig.
Selling in my region is difficult, besides, who will want an old Sandy Bridge CPU?

IMHO, Ryzens still have a bit lower IPC then it's Intel counterparts. If you want a workstation or light server, I'd dare say Ryzen is better. However, if you want to play on 240HZ screen in 4K, I'd say go with Intel. For most people, ryzen is currently optimal choice.

On the other hand, your CPU still isn't obsolete and can handle a lot of things. All you basically need is a GPU, as strong as you can get.

This is entirely factual about the IPC. Intel prevails in this department. I don't need a workstation for video editing, I just use it for word, excel and powerpoint.
But what worries me using Intel is that for Multiplayer games, I wonder if less threads will actually affect the smoothness of the gaming experience. If it jerks alot, then I will be regretting.
I didn't say at the beginning, I play on 1040 because I intend to keep my $120 BenQ which is a cheap device. Therefore, I wonder if high end CPU really affect the FPS in 1080 gaming sessions.
Thanks for the heads up. I'll try getting a strong GPU, it makes sense in this video

Per core IPC doesn't really do much for games, it's mostly in branch prediction, cache, and memory performance.

Depends a lot on the games too, CS:GO for example runs way smoother on zen2 than anything intel, other games zen2 struggles to get much better than half the minimum framerates. Though with a few caveats the 9700/9900k (OCed to hell) is going to be the winner for 240Hz, but never in value. The value proposition is honestly too bad to consider it unless you are looking at a specific game that doesn't run well on zen2.

Haswell 4c4t isn't enough for 144Hz in a lot of games, it has nowhere near enough multicore power to push the likes of BFV at high framerates.

No wonder I only get ~24 FPS at High settings in BFV. I game at 1080 and intend to keep it that way, so I don't need 4K support. I know that will affect the GPU requirement, but even so, I guess I need a very fast GPU like 1660 Ti. It's not the top notch card I know. But getting a top notch one will be a waste if it wears off quickly. Not a problem with money really, but it sounds very crazy to get a 2080 Ti at $1450!

 

[andiey]

Summarizing all you folks recommendations and advice, I have decided NOT to procure used parts. There are 2 reasons mainly:

1) Quality assurance; it is very hard to tell the actual condition of the part, how to test and RMA is not possible in case the results turn out to be negative.
2) Hard to justify the price of the items; a used i7 might be pricey than a brand new i3 9100F. And the prices vary greatly.

I have decided to go for a NEW system, with some room for future upgrade. The scale of the upgrade will be platform dependent. What I mean is two options are being considered, one being the AMD platform, the other is the INTEL's.

The route is based on the justifications of price, upgrade-ability and the game genre which I play mostly.

I appreciate the idea of going for AMD because of its future proofing more or less, and the backward compatibility offer which I think is a genius strategy by AMD. The PS5 and XBOX's deployment of Ryzen CPUs also affect my decision here. As mentioned in previous thread, politically future games will be driven by these two game vendors. 8c16t definitely is the trend to go beginning in the fall of 2020, that is a little more than a year and a half away. BUT, there is still some time here and maybe AMD will offer more flexible chips and chipsets during this 18 months. Therefore, a more balanced approach is to select a CPU which is just less than 50% of usage across most of the AAA titles predominately BFV, The Honor and FFXV. I would also be looking at some other up coming AAA titles most notably the COD. After watching over 50 videos in the last 3 months, I have observed that even a 1600X can reserve much room when running at Ultra settings coupled with a high end GPU Like the RTX 2080 under 1080 gaming environment. This highly suggests that modern games are more GPU dependent rather than CPU bounded.

It is also undeniable that Intel 9th gen is sort of coming to an end. The lethal factor is the frequent release of next generation products and the minute difference between consecutive generations. The difference between the 8th and 9th gen CPUs aren't really significant. And the removal of additional thread evident in the i7 9700K is hard to comprehend. The attitude of Intel also displays to the community an impression that we should all spend more to get additional cores and threads if you want to gain more FPS. Otherwise you're not left with much choices. This arrogance has caused some frustration and dissatisfaction within the community and further divides the factions. At the same time, the horsepower delivered by Ryzen 3 line of CPUs has catalyzed the shift towards the AMD side, some die-hard Intel fans have in fact defected. BUT, still if you want a pure gaming machine, Intel's proprietary IPC really has its superiority over AMD's, at least for the time being. And the base and boost clock frequencies still prevails. Tens of side-by-side YouTube video game benchmarks show that highest FPS is dominated by Intel at the same core clock.

Integrating all of you folks positive recommendations, I have therefore drafted up the followings

AMD - B450 platform	AMD - ZX570 platform	Intel - B365 platform	Intel - Z390 platform
Ryzen 3 3200G 3.6-4Ghz 4 C/4T 12nm	Ryzen5 3400G 3.7-4.2Ghz 4 C/8T 12nm	Core i3-9100F 6M Cache up to 4.20 GHz	Core i5-9400F 9M Cache up to 4.10 GHz
Stock Cooler Wraith Spire	Stock Cooler Wraith Spire	Corsair H60 120mm AIO (2018)	Corsair H60 120mm AIO (2018)
Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming	Asus ROG Strix X570-F Gaming	Asus ROG Strix B365-F Gaming	Asus ROG Strix Z390-E Gaming
Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 CL15 (Black) 2 x 8GB	Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 CL15 (Black) 2 x 8GB	Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 CL15 (Black) 2 x 8GB	Corsair Vengeance LPX 3000 CL15 (Black) 2 x 8GB
Corsair RM 750W	Corsair RM 850W	Corsair RM 750W	Corsair RM 750W
Please recommend good NVMe and case	Please recommend good NVMe and case	Please recommend good NVMe and case	Please recommend good NVMe and case

Please comment and advise.

 

[ratirt]

Honestly, I'd go 3600 Ryzen with X470 board. Why 570 ? You wont use the 4.0 PCIe anyway. The difference in performance between 470 and 570 boards is none existent.
Not sure why people suggest 570 board for Ryzen 3000 as a must with arguments, because you ditch feature. (If you are not going to use the features why even bother) The price difference in the 470 and 570 board department is noticeable and it would make a difference when purchasing GPU.

 

[EarthDog]

Well, you more or less have the idea. Though you may be digging into the minutia a bit.

The amount of cores and threads for gaming doesn't matter much past 6c/6t. 8c/16t CPUs don't show much if any at all benefit to games. With AMD inside the PS5, you are right to think games will be ported over for sure. However, UTILIZING (not using) all the cores and threads will still take a while. I've said it before here and I will say it again. Hex cores have been out from AMD for 8 years or so, Intel just slightly less... and in that time, just now is a 6c/12t a sweetspot. It will take years again (3-5) for 8c/16t to be notably behind the curve. By that time, guess what, it's CPU upgrade time anyway.

I surely wouldn't start with an APU on the AMD side, and no way would I go B365 with an intent to upgrade to presumably a chip that can overclock (B365 cannot overclock).

But dude, we are deep in the minutia now, honest. An AMD platform based on X570 and Zen2 with at least a 6c/12t CPU Ryzen 3 will be a great games for 3-5 years. Intel the same, but slightly higher FPS at 1080p. X570 gives you an upgrade path... which is great if you are sure you are going to take it. Who knows what the CPU landscape will look like in 3-5 years performance wise.

(If you are not going to use the features why even bother)

Because you lose it for the entire life of the CPU... the extra lanes can help, especially with multiple NVMe which is the way storage is going. I'd also make a wager that X470 and down won't take Zen2+ or Zen3 / be upgradeable which then makes that 'advantage' over the intel platform go away.

 

[freeagent]

Honestly, I'd go 3600 Ryzen with X470 board. Why 570 ? You wont use the 4.0 PCIe anyway. The difference in performance between 470 and 570 boards is none existent.
Not sure why people suggest 570 board for Ryzen 3000 as a must with arguments, because you ditch feature. (If you are not going to use the features why even bother) The price difference in the 470 and 570 board department is noticeable and it would make a difference when purchasing GPU.

I thought if you went with a 3700x and up the vrm from any decent 570 board would be much better than 370/470? Don’t you need those high end vrm for the higher end CPUs? Because now I’m starting to get confused

 

[ratirt]

Well, you more or less have the idea. Though you may be digging into the minutia a bit.

The amount of cores and threads for gaming doesn't matter much past 6c/6t. 8c/16t CPUs don't show much if any at all benefit to games. With AMD inside the PS5, you are right to think games will be ported over for sure. However, UTILIZING (not using) all the cores and threads will still take a while. I've said it before here and I will say it again. Hex cores have been out from AMD for 8 years or so, Intel just slightly less... and in that time, just now is a 6c/12t a sweetspot. It will take years again (3-5) for 8c/16t to be notably behind the curve. By that time, guess what, it's CPU upgrade time anyway.

I surely wouldn't start with an APU on the AMD side, and no way would I go B365 with an intent to upgrade to presumably a chip that can overclock (B365 cannot overclock).

But dude, we are deep in the minutia now, honest. An AMD platform based on X570 and Zen2 with at least a 6c/12t CPU Ryzen 3 will be a great games for 3-5 years. Intel the same, but slightly higher FPS at 1080p. X570 gives you an upgrade path... which is great if you are sure you are going to take it. Who knows what the CPU landscape will look like in 3-5 years performance wise.

Because you lose it for the entire life of the CPU... the extra lanes can help, especially with multiple NVMe which is the way storage is going. I'd also make a wager that X470 and down won't take Zen2+ or Zen3 / be upgradeable which then makes that 'advantage' over the intel platform go away.

Sure but you have to consider one thing. You want to get the top-notch thing offering the best of the best you can get. It is same story as some people here stating and arguing to buy 9900K because it is the best at gaming. The OP doesn't want the best. He wants to play 1080p Cyberpunk in the future (like 6 months for now). He doesn't need all these lanes because he is not going to use them anyway. The NVMe drives for the 570 are not that great now since they are still need some work. Why pay so much for the x570 board when the performance gain is none? To brag that you have one?
In the future the boards will be cheaper and OP will be able to swap the board with x570 for less that's for sure. Also it may be worth it then with all the features and stuff it has to offer but also with the product line that will use all of these features.

 

[EarthDog]

Sure but you have to consider one thing. You want to get the top-notch thing offering the best of the best you can get. It is same story as some people here stating and arguing to buy 9900K because it is the best at gaming. The OP doesn't want the best. He wants to play 1080p Cyberpunk in the future (like 6 months for now). He doesn't need all these lanes because he is not going to use them anyway. The NVMe drives for the 570 are not that great now since they are still need some work. Why pay so much for the x570 board when the performance gain is none? To brag that you have one?
In the future the boards will be cheaper and OP will be able to swap the board with x570 for less that's for sure. Also it may be worth it then with all the features and stuff it has to offer but also with the product line that will use all of these features.

I do? Huh. Interesting.

My motto is to get the best you can/want to afford. If that is an APU on mid-range chipsets, so be it.

I'm not talking speed on NVMe drives, but COUNT. Speeds will get there.

There isn't a performance gain on the platform (who said that?? lol).

You say in the future boards will be cheaper.... but we saw X570 go UP in price by a fair amount over X470..... so, are you sure about that? Also, wouldn't buying an X570 board down the line (even used) then cost MORE than getting one board up front? That doesn't make sense at all to me...

 

[ratirt]

I thought if you went with a 3700x and up the vrm from any decent 570 board would be much better than 370/470? Don’t you need those high end vrm for the higher end CPUs? Because now I’m starting to get confused

Why would you need better VRMs for 3700x when this one is 8c16t just like 2700x? you may need better VRMs if you go 3900x or 3950x but that is it. OP doesn't want to go 3900x but instead 3200g so why the hell he should buy x570 board for so much? 3700x can run on a X470 board no problem. Why do you guys keep misinterpret or confuse other members?

Watch these videos below and tell me what is the reason for the OP to go with x570 for a person who plays few games not looking for top of the top products to brag about few more FPS?

 

[EarthDog]

Why would you need better VRMs for 3700x when this one is 8c16t just like 2700x? you may need better VRMs if you go 3900x or 3950x but that is it. OP doesn't want to go 3900x but instead 3200g so why the hell he should buy x570 board for so much? 3700x can run on a X470 board no problem. Why do you guys keep misinterpret or confuse other members?

Watch these videos below and tell me what is the reason for the OP to go with x570 for a person who plays few games not looking for top of the top products to brag about few more FPS?

So uhhh, get a previous gen board, neuter the upgrade path by both compatibility and the possibility of a lesser VRM which also could dissuade an upgrade to a 3900x/3950x in a few years... interesting...........

... not a path I would take with the future in mind.

BUt hey.. to each their own... opinions are like assholes...everyone has one (and some are one, LOL - not saying that last part to anyone here, note!).

 

[ratirt]

I do? Huh. Interesting.

My motto is to get the best you can/want to afford. If that is an APU on mid-range chipsets, so be it.

I'm not talking speed on NVMe drives, but COUNT. Speeds will get there.

There isn't a performance gain on the platform (who said that?? lol).

You say in the future boards will be cheaper.... but we saw X570 go UP in price by a fair amount over X470..... so, are you sure about that? Also, wouldn't buying an X570 board down the line (even used) then cost MORE than getting one board up front? That doesn't make sense at all to me...

Yes I'm sure about that. The PCIe 4.0 costs the chipset as well cause it is something new. But the price will drop down eventually. More boards will be available and demand will drop. The Cyberpunk is going to be released in April (if not later) If you think that the price of the X570 boards will not drop down till then or at least stay the same then at least please tell me why because I simply can't see it happening.
If the performance is the same why would you recommend X570 board? For the features? The OP is not going to use the features because he wants to game only not brag about the system he has.

So uhhh, get a previous gen board, neuter the upgrade path by both compatibility and the possibility of a lesser VRM which also could dissuade an upgrade to a 3900x/3950x in a few years... interesting...........

... not a path I would take with the future in mind.

BUt hey.. to each their own... opinions are like assholes...everyone has one (and some are one, LOL - not saying that last part to anyone here, note!).

You can get the 3900 and 3950 working with the X470 boards with no problem. Depending on the board of course. Buy a decent x470 and you are all good with 3900X. There is no compatibility issue with 3000 series Ryzen on X470 board? Where do you get that one from?
If the OP buys a 3600X or 3700X with X470 board, tell me, how long this set up will last considering gaming? Cause I think at least 2 years with no problems. The only concern is the GPU.
Remember what the OP wants and adjust your knowledge and suggestions.

BUt hey.. to each their own... opinions are like assholes...everyone has one (and some are one, LOL - not saying that last part to anyone here, note!).

For me an opinion is like an ass, everyone has its own.

 

[64K]

No wonder I only get ~24 FPS at High settings in BFV. I game at 1080 and intend to keep it that way, so I don't need 4K support. I know that will affect the GPU requirement, but even so, I guess I need a very fast GPU like 1660 Ti.

A 1660 Ti is an excellent choice for 1080p gaming. Of the 21 games W1zzard benched in the review below all of them averaged way over 60 FPS except Assassin's Creed Odyssey and Ghost Recon Wildlands but those 2 are either very demanding or poorly ported. Battlefield V averaged 97 FPS and these games are being benched at the highest settings. That looks good for the near future as well because even though games always get more demanding you will probably be fine.

I can only guess what Cyberpunk 2077 will require but I think you will probably be in good shape with a 1660 Ti for that game when it does release. Possibly you might need to turn down some settings but a lot of times there's really not a noticeable difference between ultra and high settings anyway.

If I were going to buy a 1660 Ti then this is what I would get:

MSI GeForce GTX 1660 Ti Gaming X 6 GB Review

The MSI GeForce GTX 1660 Ti is the company's most premium offering based on the new NVIDIA Turing chip that lacks ray-tracing features, designed to woo gamers under the $300-mark. Twin Frozr 7 and other premium MSI exclusives dress up this factory-overclocked card that sits quiet when idling.

www.techpowerup.com

 

[EarthDog]

There is no compatibility issue with 3000 series Ryzen on X470 board? Where do you get that one from?

Compatibility in future upgrades to the next gen CPUs. I doubt X470 will play nice with Zen3 (like I said earlier).

Yeah, so you have to spend for a decent X470 board to potentially support a 3900/3950x upgrade in a few years which puts you right back into X570 territory but without an upgrade path (to next gen so we're clear) so many are talking about nor the possibility of using any of the features and what it brings (I never mentioned performace, to be clear.....again). Now, it is possible, but that value proposition goes away a bit...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wmsTYK9Z3-jUX5LGRoFnsZYZiW1pfiDZnKCjaXyzd1o/htmlview?sle=true

Remember what the OP wants and adjust your knowledge and suggestions.

For me an opinion is like an ass, everyone has its own.

LOL, really? Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaha Muaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!


Anyway, OP, good luck to you... this thread is getting a bit ridiculous with all the people talking in circles and cutting off the face to spite the nose.

 

[ne6togadno]

System Builder

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