3800X build bad performance - what am I doing wrong?

[ecopsorn]

@birdie and at everyone
Gotta sleep, checkin in tmrw.
i built the rig and I’m confident that the thermal paste was applied correctly now. I just reinstalled the cooler yesterday.

But before I go to bed, how can windows issues, be it drivers or else, be the reason for long boot times? That’s probably a stupid question.

By the way, before my noctua I had the stock wraith prism installed, with stock paste. Idle temps were pretty much identical to my noctua now which is very strange again, right? I need to run prime 95 again tmrw, haven’t done so with the noctua but with my prism it got to like 96 degrees amd I stopped benching

 

[birdie]

@birdie and at everyone
Gotta sleep, checkin in tmrw.
i built the rig and I’m confident that the thermal paste was applied correctly now. I just reinstalled the cooler yesterday.

But before I go to bed, how can windows issues, be it drivers or else, be the reason for long boot times? That’s probably a stupid question.

By the way, before my noctua I had the stock wraith prism installed, with stock paste. Idle temps were pretty much identical to my noctua now which is very strange again, right? I need to run prime 95 again tmrw, haven’t done so with the noctua but with my prism it got to like 96 degrees amd I stopped benching

Windows drivers may easily introduce delays when they have bugs and e.g. have long time outs for HW ininitialization. Likewise you may have some services which introduce delays as well.

To give you an example: while I had a GTX 1060 my W10 booted in less than 10 seconds, now with an RX 5600 XT the system takes up to 15 seconds to boot. A five seconds delay out of nowhere, almost, except it surely looks like NVIDIA drivers are better/faster/more efficient.

 

[R-T-B]

A five seconds delay out of nowhere, almost, except it surely looks like NVIDIA drivers are better/faster/more efficient.

Less to do with the drivers and more to do with all the useless DVR and related "fluff" AMD throws in that you can't really completely turn off. Radeon Pro drivers are better there, and in NVIDIA's case, the counter example would be not loading Geforce Experience.

The mainline Radeon drivers are a mess there and I've said it for some time, just look under scheduled tasks for some fun.

/OT

 

[TheLostSwede]

@birdie and at everyone
Gotta sleep, checkin in tmrw.
i built the rig and I’m confident that the thermal paste was applied correctly now. I just reinstalled the cooler yesterday.

But before I go to bed, how can windows issues, be it drivers or else, be the reason for long boot times? That’s probably a stupid question.

By the way, before my noctua I had the stock wraith prism installed, with stock paste. Idle temps were pretty much identical to my noctua now which is very strange again, right? I need to run prime 95 again tmrw, haven’t done so with the noctua but with my prism it got to like 96 degrees amd I stopped benching

If there's a bunch of "crap" interfering with the startup of Windows, then yes, it could affect the boot time. Just think about when you update Windows, then it takes a lot longer to boot, no? This is obviously because things are being updated as the computer starts, but I guess it's possible that something you installed is causing the delayed boot times, or maybe you've caught a virus or something similar. I'm obviously just making guesses here, but even normal programs can slow down the time it takes to get into Windows. This might be worth a quick look.

Windows Startup Slow? How to find & disable startup programs [Easy Fix]

The longer you have your Windows computer, the slower it seems to start. One likely reason? Too many programs running on startup. Here's how to manage, turn off, and delete Windows startup programs.

www.comparitech.com

 

[Ruyki]

But before I go to bed, how can windows issues, be it drivers or else, be the reason for long boot times? That’s probably a stupid question.

When the rox strix logo screen is shown, the motherboard firmware (BIOS/UEFI) is running.
If your system is on the rog strix logo on screen for like 45sec like you reported, then that is too long and that is causing the long boot time.

 

[birdie]

Booting Windows in safe mode does not change any of your PC or OS settings. It's a one time procedure to eliminate most of the autoload crap in Windows and check if your CPU/RAM performance is within the normal limits. The safe mode that loads GPU drivers doesn't exist unfortunately. Again, this thread doesn't cease to amaze me with some outstanding nonsense.

 

[Caring1]

When the rox strix logo screen is shown, the motherboard firmware (BIOS/UEFI) is running.
If your system is on the rog strix logo on screen for like 45sec like you reported, then that is too long and that is causing the long boot time.

This ^^^
Bios loading is taking too long, the initialization process is way too slow.
I'm wondering if there is a Bios bug and if an update will fix it.

 

[moproblems99]

This ^^^
Bios loading is taking too long, the initialization process is way too slow.
I'm wondering if there is a Bios bug and if an update will fix it.

Apparently, the OP is on the latest UEFI. I am curious if there is something along the lines of 'FastBoot' (but not literally) that is enabled and causing problems.

 

[TheLostSwede]

When the rox strix logo screen is shown, the motherboard firmware (BIOS/UEFI) is running.
If your system is on the rog strix logo on screen for like 45sec like you reported, then that is too long and that is causing the long boot time.

That's only partially true, a lot of UEFI motherboards now use the same logo as the Windows loading animation.

 

[moproblems99]

@moproblems99 - don’t know what I should screenshot from the bios in terms of storage. Seems all good, here’s a pic

Ugh, that UEFI looks as shitty as ASRock. I'd have to say, my MSI Z97 Gaming 7 was my favorite. That said, I also had it for like 7 years so it could be that I was just used to it. I hate ASRocks's right now.

Edit: Too expand, I think we can rule out any software causing the long boot time because the long boot time persisted with safe mode. So we should be able to rule out driver and software loading issues. That leaves us with UEFI/hardware.

• Memory Training
• Some weird ass hardware issue causing long boot times
• UEFI bug
• UEFI setting causing something
• Something in Windows core

Not to mention you have the large performance loss with the SSD so that is where my focus would be at this point. That and some strange UEFI setting. I would have thought that reloading optimized defaults would have corrected this but weird things happen every day.

I don't know how much stuff you have installed/loaded and how much of a pain in the ass it is for you to reinstall windows, but that is always an option. That would/could rule out something install related but I am not sure what that would be. Just curious, what is your boot order setup in the UEFI?

That's only partially true, a lot of UEFI motherboards now use the same logo as the Windows loading animation.

I can say that with mine, windows loads on top of the UEFI logo. I think anyway, been a while since I watched it. I for sure know it did with my Z97.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I can say that with mine, windows loads on top of the UEFI logo. I think anyway, been a while since I watched it. I for sure know it did with my Z97.

Both newer Gigabyte and MSI boards uses the UEFI logo as the Windows loading animation, I know this for sure, since my system at home does it and this loaner I'm using right now does it. It's even hard to tell when it goes from the UEFI to the Windows part sometimes.

 

[tabascosauz]

Both newer Gigabyte and MSI boards uses the UEFI logo as the Windows loading animation, I know this for sure, since my system at home does it and this loaner I'm using right now does it. It's even hard to tell when it goes from the UEFI to the Windows part sometimes.

The UEFI logo simply persists. When the Windows loading spinner comes up, it's applied onto whatever background was already there. You can see this with fullscreen logos that are coloured, the animated spinner just sits on a small square. I could have sworn I've not even seen the spinner on some installations; the logo screen simply persists until the login screen while the text indicating the BIOS shortcuts just disappears when Windows begins loading.

Before the Windows loading begins, common UEFI issues can be:

• fans spinning full speed, no display, logo screen, or BIOS/bootmenu shortcuts
• bootlooping back into the full speed fan phase without reaching the logo screen, bad memory
• stuck on the logo screen with non-responsive BIOS shortcuts, can be an issue with BIOS settings that aren't fully functional/are bugged

All of the above indicate problems outside of Windows. Now, if the BIOS shortcut text has already disappeared, and/or the spinner just keeps spinning indefinitely, that would sound like there's something up with Windows.

 

[TheLostSwede]

The UEFI logo simply persists. When the Windows loading spinner comes up, it's applied onto whatever background was already there. You can see this with fullscreen logos that are coloured, the animated spinner just sits on a small square. I could have sworn I've not even seen the spinner on some installations; the logo screen simply persists until the login screen while the text indicating the BIOS shortcuts just disappears when Windows begins loading.

Before the Windows loading begins, common UEFI issues can be:

• fans spinning full speed, no display, logo screen, or BIOS/bootmenu shortcuts
• bootlooping back into the full speed fan phase without reaching the logo screen, bad memory
• stuck on the logo screen with non-responsive BIOS shortcuts, can be an issue with BIOS settings that aren't fully functional/are bugged

All of the above indicate problems outside of Windows. Now, if the BIOS shortcut text has already disappeared, and/or the spinner just keeps spinning indefinitely, that would sound like there's something up with Windows.

Well, it's a "feature" of Windows 10 and can be undone on some Windows flavours.

Unbranded Boot

Learn about Unbranded Boot, a feature that suppresses Windows elements that appear when Windows starts. Unbranded Boot can also suppress the crash screen when Windows encounters an error that it can't recover from.

docs.microsoft.com

 

[MxPhenom 216]

It just boots slow, rog strix logo on screen for like 45sec than 12sec black screen and than i see the login screen.

when i try timings that won’t work, system dies try to boot 3x and than it ends up at error 22, F9 or so and if I am lucky I end up back in bios. At 22 I need to CMOS reset

Its probably sitting there trying to train the memory and its not happy with something so its taking a lot longer than usual. Memory training happens every boot up

 

[junglist724]

Turn Fastboot on(unless it causes you issues) and CSM off. CSM will greatly increase your boot times. Make sure your boot drive is GPT instead of MBR.

 

[Waldorf]

@tabascosauz
have you run the ram with 1.32v and lower CL?
GB x570 boards are known to have at least +0.025 (up to 0.035 iirc) more v than shown in bios/monitor tools,
and even confirmed by a CS guy in their forum.

@junglist724
no it does not greatly, if noticable at all.
all x570 setups i did with couple different boards got me about 10-14s to desktop on other machines (less sw loaded),
and about 20s (all updates/drivers etc installed) for my rig while running csm mode.

 

[ecopsorn]

It just boots slow, rog strix logo on screen for like 45sec than 12sec black screen and than i see the login screen.

when i try timings that won’t work, system dies try to boot 3x and than it ends up at error 22, F9 or so and if I am lucky I end up back in bios. At 22 I need to CMOS reset

I gotta quote myself and revise the info provided a bit.
I don't have a youtube channel, would upload a vid, but providing numbers will do the trick as well I guess.

1. Pressing power button --> 12sec nothing happens on my monitors, black screen
2. 12-25sec. Rog strix logo appears, sometimes wheel is spinning, sometimes I don't see a wheel
3. 25sec.-ca. 58sec --> black screen
4. after 58sec. --> Login screen pops up
5. After logged in, it takes another at least 30-50sec until all background apps are loaded

Regarding the CPU load: The 25% was very strange: One app was at 10% at least 3min. after startup. I have the same app on other computers and it is constantly between 0-1%. After it loaded, computer is still between 8-10% load at idle - around 15 different services are above 0%. corsair service uses 2.1%.

About the ram:
I've ordered the 4x8gb g.skill royal's because there was just 1 item on stock with a delivery time of 6-8 days.
I could still send it back and get the Neo's if you guys really think it was the wrong choice. About the discussion about 2x16 or 4x8 seem to have different fanboys haha.

Turn Fastboot on(unless it causes you issues) and CSM off. CSM will greatly increase your boot times. Make sure your boot drive is GPT instead of MBR.

I seem not to have a fast boot option in my bios, or I'm just blind lol. I have confirmed already that boot drive Samsung Evo 970 is GPT and I don't have any other drive in the system. CSM is also disabled.
Regarding the boot times and general problems, I will soon start my re-install process, following the guide that birdie provided.
The cinebench numbers in safe mode are so much higher than in normal boot, but not much difference between no DOCCP vs DOCCP, I was planning on run default values in bios again and than start the re-install process.

 

[tabascosauz]

I gotta quote myself and revise the info provided a bit.
I don't have a youtube channel, would upload a vid, but providing numbers will do the trick as well I guess.

1. Pressing power button --> 12sec nothing happens on my monitors, black screen
2. 12-25sec. Rog strix logo appears, sometimes wheel is spinning, sometimes I don't see a wheel
3. 25sec.-ca. 58sec --> black screen
4. after 58sec. --> Login screen pops up
5. After logged in, it takes another at least 30-50sec until all background apps are loaded

Regarding the CPU load: The 25% was very strange: One app was at 10% at least 3min. after startup. I have the same app on other computers and it is constantly between 0-1%. After it loaded, computer is still between 8-10% load at idle - around 15 different services are above 0%. corsair service uses 2.1%.

About the ram:
I've ordered the 4x8gb g.skill royal's because there was just 1 item on stock with a delivery time of 6-8 days.
I could still send it back and get the Neo's if you guys really think it was the wrong choice. About the discussion about 2x16 or 4x8 seem to have different fanboys haha.

This behaviour after POST all sounds almost like there's something wrong with the drive, like it's limited to absurdly low read speeds. I've only ever witnessed this kind of Win 10 bootup time on the most cluttered HDD installations on the slowest platforms 9-10 generations out of date. I'm guessing your drives are already on AHCI setting in BIOS?

Do you have another SSD you can install Windows on and test with? At this point, any old SATA3 SSD should offer far better performance than you're getting.

The 12 seconds with nothing happening is nothing out of the normal considering memory training for low quality sticks. Everything else, however...the 30 seconds' worth of black screen after Windows starts loading is some of the weirdest shit I've ever heard.

Also, get rid of that Corsair iCUE garbage and test again; isn't that one of those things where you can uninstall after the initial setup of your fans and they'll work just fine without the software?

And what "app" was at least 10% after 3 minutes? I'm assuming you already have Task Manager open at this point so you can provide the name.

 

[Caring1]

The 12 seconds with nothing happening is nothing out of the normal considering memory training for low quality sticks. Everything else, however...the 30 seconds' worth of black screen after Windows starts loading is some of the weirdest shit I've ever heard.

Memory Training does not occur on every boot from my experience, only the first couple of times.
The black screen between Bios and Windows sounds like a Uefi GPU issue.

 

[ecopsorn]

This behaviour after POST all sounds almost like there's something wrong with the drive, like it's limited to absurdly low read speeds. I've only ever witnessed this kind of Win 10 bootup time on the most cluttered HDD installations on the slowest platforms 9-10 generations out of date. I'm guessing your drives are already on AHCI setting in BIOS?

Do you have another SSD you can install Windows on and test with? At this point, any old SATA3 SSD should offer far better performance than you're getting.

The 12 seconds with nothing happening is nothing out of the normal considering memory training for low quality sticks. Everything else, however...the 30 seconds' worth of black screen after Windows starts loading is some of the weirdest shit I've ever heard.

Also, get rid of that Corsair iCUE garbage and test again; isn't that one of those things where you can uninstall after the initial setup of your fans and they'll work just fine without the software?

And what "app" was at least 10% after 3 minutes? I'm assuming you already have Task Manager open at this point so you can provide the name.

Sry about the bad quality but here's the task manager.
The app was "Snagit" - a screenshot app, but it only was at the beginning, now at 0% where it is supposed to be.
I need the iCUE for my RGB profils unfortunately and in it I have my commander pro controlling the case fan speeds as well.

I really don't have another SSD lying around but I could just test the drive again when I have a fully clean system?
And yes, it is on AHCI in bios. I only have RAID as another option which would be clearly wrong for one drive

 

[tabascosauz]

@ecopsorn we asked what kind of stuff you had running on your comp - this is why. Plenty of reports out there throughout the years that Corsair Service is responsible for random peaks into double digit CPU usage (I just did a quick search and already there are complaints of 50% or more usage in legacy quad cores and FX CPUs) for no outwardly visible reason. That's without addressing the plethora of other background processes that are also going on, and only the ones that we can see - why do you need the Wraith Prism HID if you have a D15?

Generally, background programs can cost you a few dozen or up to a hundred score in Cinebench, but with Corsair Service the way it is, I wouldn't be surprised if it's responsible for a much larger hit to your scores, if it just happened to peak during your bench.

Why does it even need so much CPU usage if it's just logging data? This is like, the hardware monitoring program from hell.

This reinstall needs to have absolutely none of this stuff to actually troubleshoot anything. Absolutely none of it, including iCUE and its complement Service. The graphics drivers to get going, chipset drivers, and that's it.

What does your startup tab look like? This all shouldn't account for the slow boot, that's still up in the air.

Also, if the option still exists, disable Enable Full Software Control in iCUE.

 

[Waldorf]

@tabascosauz
I installed icue a few times for the corsair hydros used for cpu, and at least the last 2 releases did NOT cause any delay in boot,
and a clean install on sata3 ssd was getting to desktop in 10s and loading sw for another 5-6s.
lots of times ppl dont post positives about icue, so of course "its crap" will be found much easier/faster.
not saying i run it in the background after setup, but the few times it ran on 10x64 with 3600 and x570 i had no problems at all.

still, after clean install of win just install chipset, reboot, nvme driver, reboot and then checking stuff before installing other stuff would be advised.

@ecopsorn
are you in "advanced" mode for bios? you can turn off the full screen logo, usually prevents you from seeing bios/system info.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Also, get rid of that Corsair iCUE garbage and test again; isn't that one of those things where you can uninstall after the initial setup of your fans and they'll work just fine without the software?

Sadly, you can not. iCUE has become a lot more integrated with their products as of lately and it's used for almost all Corsair products now. It's becoming more and more bloatware-ish, which is a shame. The UI/UX isn't great either imho.

Sry about the bad quality but here's the task manager.
The app was "Snagit" - a screenshot app, but it only was at the beginning, now at 0% where it is supposed to be.
I need the iCUE for my RGB profils unfortunately and in it I have my commander pro controlling the case fan speeds as well.

I really don't have another SSD lying around but I could just test the drive again when I have a fully clean system?
And yes, it is on AHCI in bios. I only have RAID as another option which would be clearly wrong for one drive

View attachment 154725

Tips for screenshots. In Windows, press the Print Scr button (above the Ins key) will take a full screen screenshot. Hold down Alt (on the left side) and Prnt Scr and you take one of the active window. In the UEFI, if you have a FAT32 formatted USB drive plugged in, you can press something like F12 (varies between board makers) to take screenshots that are then saved to the USB drive.

@tabascosauz
I installed icue a few times for the corsair hydros used for cpu, and at least the last 2 releases did NOT cause any delay in boot,
and a clean install on sata3 ssd was getting to desktop in 10s and loading sw for another 5-6s.
lots of times ppl dont post positives about icue, so of course "its crap" will be found much easier/faster.
not saying i run it in the background after setup, but the few times it ran on 10x64 with 3600 and x570 i had no problems at all.

still, after clean install of win just install chipset, reboot, nvme driver, reboot and then checking stuff before installing other stuff would be advised.

@ecopsorn
are you in "advanced" mode for bios? you can turn off the full screen logo, usually prevents you from seeing bios/system info.

Agreed that it doesn't affect boot times, but it does slow down the part after you get into Windows a bit.
Regardless of that, it's not a great piece of software and I know for a fact that it was rushed out due to management wanting it out.
Every other release seems to have some new issues, while fixing others. Has it gotten better? For sure, but it's still a far cry from good software.

 

[ecopsorn]

It is quoting time again! I've learned so much the last couple of days. I'm confident we get my rig fixed, hell I'd even consider switching out the CPU and board now lol!

What do you guys think about the fan setup, probably it could help getting better case temps.
I currently have the 3 in front is intake (idle around 630rpm) and the other 3 as outlet (around 600rpm) to create a positive pressure (suggested somewhere in the corsair forum).
I was thinking now I could use the top right fan and switch it to intake as well, so 4 intake, 2 outlet. Would that make sense? just an idea.

The style prism fan is of course not on during load, it would disrupt air flow, it is just for the blingz.

Well, my honest advice will be

1) Run the Windows boot media tool and prepare a USB flash disk for installation.
2) Install Windows from scratch (on a new fresh device, or simply wipe/reformat everything), and then do not install any software or drivers afterwards. Maybe let Windows install all the updates and reboot several times just to be sure you're done with updates. The Windows Updates service can be a dick to your benchmarking sessions.
3) Run CB20 and remember the scores.
4) Install e.g. AMD chipset drivers, rerun CB20 and check that scores haven't changed
5) Install GPU drivers and check that scores haven't changed

If you're here now enjoying your full performance, it means you had something running in your previous W10 install which negatively affected your scores. Do not install everything at once. Do not play with Windows power schemes. I will go as far as to claim that AMD chipset drivers are not necessary to get your Ryzen system running almost perfectly. Intel INF drivers are often equally useless.

@birdie
I will do just that when I re-install.

Turn Fastboot on(unless it causes you issues) and CSM off. CSM will greatly increase your boot times. Make sure your boot drive is GPT instead of MBR.

I finally found Fast Boot lol but it was already enabled.... for the fun I disabled it now and got the same 60sec boot time.

What does your startup tab look like? This all shouldn't account for the slow boot, that's still up in the air.
Also, if the option still exists, disable Enable Full Software Control in iCUE.

@tabascosauz
looks like that, now I'm sure someone can tell me why I have 8 steam client tasks lol. Also WIndows Host Process and several other tasks are duplicated.

I never enabled Full Software Control in iCUE.

still, after clean install of win just install chipset, reboot, nvme driver, reboot and then checking stuff before installing other stuff would be advised.
are you in "advanced" mode for bios? you can turn off the full screen logo, usually prevents you from seeing bios/system info.

will do it very clean next time
I disabled the full screen logo now. Now I see the post screen for a couple of sec and than the windows logo also only shortly. the very long time of black hole before the login screen remains though and I still have almost a minute boot time.

As I mentioned above, I found fast boot in the system and it was enabled already.

Tips for screenshots. In Windows, press the Print Scr button (above the Ins key) will take a full screen screenshot. Hold down Alt (on the left side) and Prnt Scr and you take one of the active window. In the UEFI, if you have a FAT32 formatted USB drive plugged in, you can press something like F12 (varies between board makers) to take screenshots that are then saved to the USB drive.

sry about the process smartphone screen, I was working on my working comp and needed to be quick.
I have now screenshoted some bios windows. It all seems normal to me, after all it is the default settings now. The only things I changed now after loading defaults is switching off the 2.5ghz lan controller and other things I won't need.

I'm just gonna throw all sceenshots in this thread, probably you can see something I can't::

oh look, my CPU can be cold for once (had it turned off for an hour before I went into bios.
I have noticed this screen digi+ for the first time, never touched it

This one is on "other OS", dunno if it is correct.

It is on Auto, could it be a reason for my bad SSD performance?

In this screen, I never touched anything. I did the ram tuning in AI Tweaker, there is no difference right?

 

[TheLostSwede]

I see you managed to work out how to grab much improved screenshots

This one is on "other OS", dunno if it is correct.
View attachment 154759

That's correct.

It is on Auto, could it be a reason for my bad SSD performance?
View attachment 154763
View attachment 154764

You can try setting it to GEN 3 just to make sure.
Also did you try running a Device Self Test just to check it doesn't throw up any errors?

In this screen, I never touched anything. I did the ram tuning in AI Tweaker, there is no difference right?
View attachment 154765

Actually, this is where you would manually set the Infinity Fabric ratio, IF you go above 3600MHz at some point in the future.
But no, you don't need to set up the memory timings here, as the settings in AI Tweaker are duplicated here. This whole sub-menu is tied in with what you'd see when using AMD Ryzen Master in Windows, hence why it has to be there. This should be more or less identical on all X570 boards.

This isn't solving your boot time issues as such, but it would be interesting to see if it has any affect at all on boot times. Have a look see if Turn on fast start-up is enabled. If it's ticked, try turning it off to see if anything changes, as some people have apparently had issues with this option, but it's a shot in the dark.

Turn On or Off Fast Startup in Windows 10

How to Turn On or Off Fast Startup in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com