Input lag is killing me

[Valantar]

I’m sorry, but I don’t get it, what do you want me to do? I didn’t run any tested on another PC, because this problem usually happens while I’m playing. And yes, it’s something constant. I made all the updates (Chipset drivers, windows, NVIDIA, ethernet). I was thinking that maybe the problem is related to my mouse, but I really doubt that, and others peripherals such as keyboard and other stuff doesn’t make any sense. About the cable, what do you think could be the problem? Also energy I don’t think it’s related to my problem. I can try to run some tests without Discord that if I’m not mistaken, it’s the only “software” that I use.

So the lag is even, your reactions/in-game actions just register slower than you think they should?

This is a useful tool for roughly identifying your actual ("motion-to-photon", or mouse movement-to-movement-on-screen) input lag, even if it's not exactly accurate. Adjust the slider at the top until your mouse stays within the bounds of the circle during all movement, that gives you an approximation of your actual input lag.

If you're experiencing excessive input lag, it should be there no matter what application/game you're running, unless that application has some seriously buggy code. CPU and GPU load can of course affect this, but only through being too slow to keep up with the processing needs of the system. I.e. you get what you get with what hardware you have - and with your setup, you shouldn't be held back there.

DPC latency is indeed also a candidate, though that's harder to pinpoint as the issue, and essentially impossible to fix unless you report it to the motherboard maker and they actually make a driver/BIOS update to address it. Chances of that are slim.

A bad mouse can absolutely cause input lag - most cheap mice have 125Hz polling (how often they send data to the system), i.e. 8ms passes between each time your system gets new data (position changes, clicks) from your mouse. That adds on top of the various processing, signal transfer and lcd response delays of the game, system, wiring and monitor. It's more noticeable with faster monitors though, but gaming on a 125Hz mouse feels bad no matter what.

 

[mouacyk]

- As a precaution to make sure it wasn't network related lag I changed my ISP to a more stable ISP. It was more to prove to people that the problem isn't internet related as that seems to be the easy 'cop out' for people to suggest. So yes it is input lag and not regular internet lag.

Because you are focused on CS:GO, do you know what kind of network latency you are actually getting? What do you mean by "stable ISP"? Not sure what the infrastructure is like there in Brazil, but anything above 100ms is not good. 15-50ms is ideal for CS:GO. Also, if it swings from like 50ms to 150ms and back to 50ms, that's not good either.

Can you take a screenshot of the CPU-Z memory tab? Then go into Event Viewer, apply the following filter and post a screenshot? Just want to rule out any memory issues, because you also changed memory.

 

[Lkzz]

Because you are focused on CS:GO, do you know what kind of network latency you are actually getting? What do you mean by "stable ISP"? Not sure what the infrastructure is like there in Brazil, but anything above 100ms is not good. 15-50ms is ideal for CS:GO. Also, if it swings from like 50ms to 150ms and back to 50ms, that's not good either.

Can you take a screenshot of the CPU-Z memory tab? Then go into Event Viewer, apply the following filter and post a screenshot? Just want to rule out any memory issues, because you also changed memory.
View attachment 195998

Well you mean the PING while gaming? It’s always between 5-20. And where can I find this CPU-Z memory tab?

 

[mouacyk]

Well you mean the PING while gaming? It’s always between 5-20. And where can I find this CPU-Z memory tab?

OK, so PING is not an issue . I'm still curious to see how your RAM is configured and if it's actually stable.

 

[Lkzz]

OK, so PING is not an issue . I'm still curious to see how your RAM is configured and if it's actually stable.

Sure I’ll send you ASAP, but I just need to be sure, where exactly can I find this CPU-Z tab? Sorry for disturbing you mate...

 

[mouacyk]

Sure I’ll send you ASAP, but I just need to be sure, where exactly can I find this CPU-Z tab? Sorry for disturbing you mate...

Google it please. There will be other useful tools for you to have:
HWiNFO to get temperature readings, and error logs
TechPowerUp's MemTest64 to test your RAM

 

[milewski1015]

CPU-Z | Softwares | CPUID

CPU-Z for Windows® x86/x64 is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system : Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels. Mainboard and chipset. Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD). Real time...

www.cpuid.com

Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.

www.hwinfo.com

TechPowerUp

MemTest64 is a free system memory stability and error detection software for all Intel and AMD processors. It runs on 64 bit Windows without installation.

www.techpowerup.com

CPU-Z is a separate piece of software. The memory tab will show your memory capacity, frequency, primary timings, and whether it's running in single or dual channel.

 

[Lkzz]

So the lag is even, your reactions/in-game actions just register slower than you think they should?

This is a useful tool for roughly identifying your actual ("motion-to-photon", or mouse movement-to-movement-on-screen) input lag, even if it's not exactly accurate. Adjust the slider at the top until your mouse stays within the bounds of the circle during all movement, that gives you an approximation of your actual input lag.

If you're experiencing excessive input lag, it should be there no matter what application/game you're running, unless that application has some seriously buggy code. CPU and GPU load can of course affect this, but only through being too slow to keep up with the processing needs of the system. I.e. you get what you get with what hardware you have - and with your setup, you shouldn't be held back there.

DPC latency is indeed also a candidate, though that's harder to pinpoint as the issue, and essentially impossible to fix unless you report it to the motherboard maker and they actually make a driver/BIOS update to address it. Chances of that are slim.

A bad mouse can absolutely cause input lag - most cheap mice have 125Hz polling (how often they send data to the system), i.e. 8ms passes between each time your system gets new data (position changes, clicks) from your mouse. That adds on top of the various processing, signal transfer and lcd response delays of the game, system, wiring and monitor. It's more noticeable with faster monitors though, but gaming on a 125Hz mouse feels bad no matter what.

Alright, first of all, I don't really understand how to use this tool, can you explain in detail? Also I already used DPC, you can see the results on the first page. And my mouse is a Hyperx Pulsefire Core, I've done some research and I didn't find anything related to Input lag or bad sensor, also it has 1000Hz of polling rate that can be altered in the software "Xgenuity" if I'm not mistaken. And isn't something very constant you know? Sometimes the game feels smooth, while others it feels like my mouse has a weight of a building, trash analogy but you got my point right?

Google it please. There will be other useful tools for you to have:
HWiNFO to get temperature readings, and error logs
TechPowerUp's MemTest64 to test your RAM

Will try that ASAP

CPU-Z | Softwares | CPUID

CPU-Z for Windows® x86/x64 is a freeware that gathers information on some of the main devices of your system : Processor name and number, codename, process, package, cache levels. Mainboard and chipset. Memory type, size, timings, and module specifications (SPD). Real time...

www.cpuid.com

Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.

www.hwinfo.com

TechPowerUp

MemTest64 is a free system memory stability and error detection software for all Intel and AMD processors. It runs on 64 bit Windows without installation.

www.techpowerup.com

CPU-Z is a separate piece of software. The memory tab will show your memory capacity, frequency, primary timings, and whether it's running in single or dual channel.
View attachment 196011

Thanks mate. When you guys talked about the CPU-Z I thought it was just some windows application or something like hahaha. I will use all you've sent and then I send the results here so we can continue searching for the problem. Thanks a million!

Screenshot of CPU-Z memory tab

TechpowerUp test results "Test finished with no errors detected"

HInfo test without playing

 

[Valantar]

Alright, first of all, I don't really understand how to use this tool, can you explain in detail? Also I already used DPC, you can see the results on the first page. And my mouse is a Hyperx Pulsefire Core, I've done some research and I didn't find anything related to Input lag or bad sensor, also it has 1000Hz of polling rate that can be altered in the software "Xgenuity" if I'm not mistaken. And isn't something very constant you know? Sometimes the game feels smooth, while others it feels like my mouse has a weight of a building, trash analogy but you got my point right?

To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.

 

[Lkzz]

To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.

Alright i will send a ticket to ASUS, but do you have any more tests that I can do to be sure where exactly the problem is happening?

To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.

I think that's it, I don't know if I'm doing right, but I'm just moving my mouse back and forth and trying to identify if it stills on the circle

To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.

Now that I was thiking, the test that you've seen on the first page was before I updated my chipset driver, do you think that making the test again would do any difference at all?

To use that tool, adjust the slider until your mouse pointer doesn't leave the red circle when moving the mouse around at any speed, but stays as close to the edge of the circle as possible. The number by the slider then gives you a rough indication of your total input lag. Running this while running something game-like in the background stressing the CPU and GPU might be interesting for the sake of comparison, to see if anything changes. Or just alt+tab out of any game and do the test then, of course.

As for what you're describing, given that it's variable, it's not "input lag" per se, but most likely some form of processing lag or system latency. The end result is much the same, but given that its intermittent and not constant it's not something that changing your monitor, wiring or inputs will affect. A mouse or monitor are either slow or not; they aren't sometimes slow and sometimes not. So you can eliminate all of those factors from consideration.

That leaves us with the PC itself, its internal hardware, cpu and GPU loads, system latencies, software, drivers, etc. So eliminating the I/O sadly doesn't help you much.

As was mentioned before, your dpc latency numbers are not very good. If your drivers and BIOS are up to date, I would submit a support ticket to your motherboard vendor telling them about high dpc latency and asking for driver updates addressing that.

Still, the intermittent nature of the problem makes it more difficult to identify. One thing to try: the next time your gameplay feels like that, alt+tab out of the game and run the dpc latency test again, see if the numbers are any different.

Result of the test with just Google and Discord open

 

[mouacyk]

Can you go the Processes tab and sort the Hard pagefaults column? I think something is causing a lot of swapping.

Have you played/tweaked your Virtual Memory settings at all? (Default should be fine.)
What are you using for sound? Have you installed the latest driver from the manufacturer for that?

 

[Lkzz]

These are results while CSGO, Discord and google open

Can you go the Processes tab and sort the Hard pagefaults column? I think something is causing a lot of swapping.
View attachment 196062

Have you played/tweaked your Virtual Memory settings at all? (Default should be fine.)
What are you using for sound? Have you installed the latest driver from the manufacturer for that?

There you go

 

[Mussels]

Pixel response time and input response time are separate things. For example you can try even old VA panels with double digit response times, you will be noticing blur/ lack of motion clarity not perceived input delays.

thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet

I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)


45ms of input lag, sounds reaaaaally laggy to me... i got mine to 5-10ms (i cant tune it better because the circle is too small to see clearly)

 

[Lkzz]

thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet

I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)


45ms of input lag, sounds reaaaaally laggy to me... i got mine to 5-10ms (i cant tune it better because the circle is too small to see clearly)

So you don't think that the monitor is the problem? Or if it's is nothing related to the response time.

 

[Mussels]

So you don't think that the monitor is the problem? Or if it's is nothing related to the response time.

the monitor is the cause of input latency. that is yet another suggestion is the monitor - the only other clue being that you linked to a post above about geforce now, a streaming service - i assume you are playing your games locally

 

[mouacyk]

View attachment 196066
There you go

I think NVidia telemetry is suspect. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?

 

[Lkzz]

the monitor is the cause of input latency. that is yet another suggestion is the monitor - the only other clue being that you linked to a post above about geforce now, a streaming service - i assume you are playing your games locally

What do you mean by "playing your games locally"?

I think NVidia telemetry is suspect. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?

Give me 10 minutes and then I will send you

 

[Mussels]

What do you mean by "playing your games locally"?

??

Are you installing the games and programs on your PC, or are you using nvidias streaming service to play games from the cloud

 

[Lkzz]

??

Are you installing the games and programs on your PC, or are you using nvidias streaming service to play games from the cloud

I'm installing on my PC

 

[Mussels]

I'm installing on my PC

thats locally. one of your answers above was related to streaming from nvidias cloud service, which as it turns out was just a mistake when searching for help

Definitely go get another monitor (not a TV) and as for the noisy watercooler thats going to almost take another thread to sort out, but you can most likely relocate any air bubbles making pump noise and continue using it

 

[Lkzz]

thats locally. one of your answers above was related to streaming from nvidias cloud service, which as it turns out was just a mistake when searching for help

Definitely go get another monitor (not a TV) and as for the noisy watercooler thats going to almost take another thread to sort out, but you can most likely relocate any air bubbles making pump noise and continue using it

But are you really sure buying a new monitor will solve my problem?

I think NVidia telemetry is suspect. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?

I think NVidia telemetry is suspect. TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall can rememdy that.
Can you also show the "Drivers" tab, sorted by "Total execution" column?

Tests after I used TechPowerUp's NVCleanstall

 

[mouacyk]

Either you're doing something in the background with your harddisk, or windows is indexing files hardcore, because the storage DPC counts are insane compare to others. If not, I would recommend installing the SATA drivers from the motherboard website.

Mine for comparison (I have indexing service disabled):

 

[Valantar]

thank you! i knew i was missing an obvious way of explaining the marketing BS with reponse times, and thats the best yet

I use 165Hz VA panels here, there is simply no way they can be 'bad' just because they're 5ms - they are NOTHING like previous year displays which were also 5ms (because they improved every other thing, just not the one measured grey-to-grey response time)


45ms of input lag, sounds reaaaaally laggy to me... i got mine to 5-10ms (i cant tune it better because the circle is too small to see clearly)

45ms of input lag isn't that much overall - remember, this is full system lag, not just monitor lag. It's definitely not good, but it's not terible. For reference, I'm at ~64 according to the same test, but then my monitor is a terribly slow, old Dell U2711. Yet I'm still thoroughly enjoying playing Doom Eternal on it, about as fast-paced a game as you get. As long as input lag is consistent (which it is if it's actually input lag), your perceptions and reactions can adjust and attune themselves to it to a certain degree. Faster will always be better, but slower isn't necessarily unusable and won't necessarily feel bad unless you're used to something faster. What the OP is describing here is intermittent lag, not consistent, so it can't be caused by inputs or outputs (unless they are fundamentally broken in some highly unlikely way). So it's highly unlikely that the problem the OP is describing is caused by a monitor with poor response times. This is likely a software, OS or driver issue.

 

[Lkzz]

Either you're doing something in the background with your harddisk, or windows is indexing files hardcore, because the storage DPC counts are insane compare to others. If not, I would recommend installing the SATA drivers from the motherboard website.
View attachment 196071

Mine for comparison (I have indexing service disabled):
View attachment 196072

Hmm and how can I exactly do that?

45ms of input lag isn't that much overall - remember, this is full system lag, not just monitor lag. It's definitely not good, but it's not terible. For reference, I'm at ~64 according to the same test, but then my monitor is a terribly slow, old Dell U2711. Yet I'm still thoroughly enjoying playing Doom Eternal on it, about as fast-paced a game as you get. As long as input lag is consistent (which it is if it's actually input lag), your perceptions and reactions can adjust and attune themselves to it to a certain degree. Faster will always be better, but slower isn't necessarily unusable and won't necessarily feel bad unless you're used to something faster. What the OP is describing here is intermittent lag, not consistent, so it can't be caused by inputs or outputs (unless they are fundamentally broken in some highly unlikely way). So it's highly unlikely that the problem the OP is describing is caused by a monitor with poor response times. This is likely a software, OS or driver issue.

And how can I test and be sure of what the problem really is? I was thinking about using this software here, I don't know if you guys ever heard about it: https://www.passmark.com/products/burnintest/index.php

 

[Valantar]

Hmm and how can I exactly do that?


And how can I test and be sure of what the problem really is? I was thinking about using this software here, I don't know if you guys ever heard about it: https://www.passmark.com/products/burnintest/index.php

I don't think there's any software that can reliably test for what you need, sadly. Burnintest is a stability test, stressing components heavily to see if anything crashes or otherwise fails. I don't know this for a fact, but I would be shocked if it did something as advanced as monitoring latencies while the PC is being stressed.