What the hell is going on with game devs? (Gollum rant)

[LabRat 891]

Q2RTX is a complete joke. Its RT is horribly inaccurate and most of the time barely helps to improve the scene. Only reflections are accurate but SSR can do that since 1999. Lighting is absolutely not.

I tried Q2RTX out on my 6500XT. Yes, it was like reliving my days w/ my Pentium 4 3.0 Northwood and FX5200 (trying to play Doom3), but it did render.

Needless to say, my curiosities were satiated after just a few minutes of running around the first level or 2. It looked 'neat' but not 'good' (if that makes any sense).
The screenshots I've seen of Portal RTX fall into the same category.
Also, the 'performance hit' using RT in CP'77 (even on my friend's 6900XT OC) is not even remotely worth 'the extra purdies' RT allows.

I literally cannot see any legitimate reason for Ray-Tracing being 'push-dev'd' in the gaming space. It's like the technology belongs to/in another market, entirely.

 

[Klemc]

I've just seen it on Steam as I was trying to look up some DUTM info for you. Man, I'm tempted to buy it!

Only after you finished Goolum full gameplay and all achievements...

 

[Shihab]

I don't mean incorporating modern things is bad. What I mean is those modern things aren't even incorporated in the first place. They just get shovelled into the game with no optimisation and the devs call it a day. Sure, Crysis ran like crap on high-end systems back in the days, but it was a visual masterpiece. It can even stand its ground nowadays, but runs miles better on modern hardware than some of the newest games. When a game runs with 5 FPS on current gen hardware and looks jaw-dropping, I understand. But when a game runs with 5 FPS only because of RT, but looks like shit otherwise, that's unacceptable.

The mere fact you can do raytracing at less than one second per frame on consumer-grade hardware is, in itself, result of some extreme "optimisation." And similar to Crysis, today's slow RT will run fast on tomorrow's hardware.

RT games that look like shit would most likely also look like shit even if it wasn't considered in development. We can't just rule out poor art direction. And where the issue is, as @dgianstefani said, publishers rushing out the product, they'd rush it whether it had ray traced reflections or basic wireframes for meshes..

 

[AusWolf]

Thread's content overlooked... I think the real issue here is the 'market'.
Looking at the popularity of 'retro-graphics' games like WH40K:Boltgun, it's kinda clear that 'the (AAA) gaming community' at large is being 'led around by its nose'.

It is the market that's driving big companies to push their devs to get a 'AAA' titles 'out the door, ASAP'; which, is where a lot of technical oversights come from.

The solution is simple (though, not 'easy'):
Stop buying new releases, and stop buying the latest and greatest hardware.
If 'foreign adversaries' can deal with a few-generations out of date tech, gamers can too.

There's lifetime-hours of fantastic electronic entertainment already 'out there' that's not 'the new hotness'. Stop feeding the corporate trolls.

To be honest, I've never understood consumerism. Just because a new game came out, how is an old one any worse? Just because of technological progress, why can't one game on a 1080 Ti? Also, why is something new automatically better than anything old without any sort of evaluation? And if something old is really better (which is the case a lot of times), then why don't we stick to it and give a rat's arse about the new?

Only after you finished Goolum full gameplay and all achievements...

I want to play Gollum, believe it or not (just not at full price, of course). Even with all this rant about its shit graphics and poor optimisation, the basic idea sounds like it has potential.

 

[Klemc]

If Peter Jackson joins Daedalic, episode 2 could be great.

 

[AusWolf]

RT games that look like shit would most likely also look like shit even if it wasn't considered in development. We can't just rule out poor art direction. And where the issue is, as @dgianstefani said, publishers rushing out the product, they'd rush it whether it had ray traced reflections or basic wireframes for meshes..

Exactly, they look like shit anyway. But then they add RT, so it also runs like shit, and it's expected to sell purely on the basis of RT. It's like some devs don't have a clue what makes a game good anymore.

 

[Klemc]

A ll my games listed earlier are like that ? True ? RT is badly implemented.

 

[LabRat 891]

To be honest, I've never understood consumerism. Just because a new game came out, how is an old one any worse? Just because of technological progress, why can't one game on a 1080 Ti? Also, why is something new automatically better than anything old without any sort of evaluation? And if something old is really better (which is the case a lot of times), then why don't we stick to it and give a rat's arse about the new?

I do 'get it', and it's nothing good:
I used to be one of those 'addicted consumer' gamers. (...and I certainly did use the personal excuse of 'helping drive technology forward')

Only in age, experience, and consequences (read: maturity) has my prospective changed.

There's also a 'balance' of sorts between introducing exciting new products and exploiting your customer's 'training'. I feel that in the last decade+, there's a lot more of the latter.
(IMO, all the really interesting technology, gets relegated to Industry/Servers. Again, largely because of what consumers have been trained to accept and desire.)

 

[fevgatos]

I tried Q2RTX out on my 6500XT. Yes, it was like reliving my days w/ my Pentium 4 3.0 Northwood and FX5200 (trying to play Doom3), but it did render.

Needless to say, my curiosities were satiated after just a few minutes of running around the first level or 2. It looked 'neat' but not 'good' (if that makes any sense).
The screenshots I've seen of Portal RTX fall into the same category.
Also, the 'performance hit' using RT in CP'77 (even on my friend's 6900XT OC) is not even remotely worth 'the extra purdies' RT allows.

I literally cannot see any legitimate reason for Ray-Tracing being 'push-dev'd' in the gaming space. It's like the technology belongs to/in another market, entirely.

Thats because you have the wrong card. Of course CP77 isn't worth the performance hit when you have a 6900xt, LOL. Get an nvidia and then it is, cause the performance hit is much smaller.

 

[LabRat 891]

Thats because you have the wrong card. Of course CP77 isn't worth the performance hit when you have a 6900xt, LOL. Get an nvidia and then it is, cause the performance hit is much smaller.

I can't argue that the performance hit is smaller on team green, but it's still an unplayable mess (low min/0.1%, regardless of >41FPS avg+VRR) above 1080p
(unless you use DLSS. Which, negates the 'clean beauty' of native resolution rendering)

 

[fevgatos]

I can't argue that the performance hit is smaller on team green, but it's still an unplayable mess (low min/0.1%, regardless of >41FPS avg+VRR) above 1080p
(unless you use DLSS. Which, negates the 'clean beauty' of native resolution rendering)

There is no reason not to use Dlss, native uses TAA which is exactly not 'clean beauty'

 

[Klemc]

I can't argue that the performance hit is smaller on team green, but it's still an unplayable mess (low min/0.1%, regardless of >41FPS avg+VRR) above 1080p
(unless you use DLSS. Which, negates the 'clean beauty' of native resolution rendering)

That's also why i decided to not use RT

 

[AusWolf]

Thats because you have the wrong card. Of course CP77 isn't worth the performance hit when you have a 6900xt, LOL. Get an nvidia and then it is, cause the performance hit is much smaller.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't RT make errors below a certain frame rate, kind of the same way as motion blur does?

 

[fevgatos]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't RT make errors below a certain frame rate, kind of the same way as motion blur does?

It's the first time im hearing this, have no idea.

 

[Kodehawa]

The game looks like garbage as well both visually and from a gameplay standpoint.


People give TLOU, Hogwarts, Jedi survivor crap for not running the best but all three look miles better than this.

At least HWL was/is a good game, horrible optimization aside.

This is both awful optimization AND awful game. Ugh, and with such a price.

 

[AusWolf]

It's the first time im hearing this, have no idea.

I'm only basing it on first-hand research based on the limited time I had a 6500 XT, other than that, I don't know. Maybe it was just the low frame rate itself that made the image look bad in certain games.

 

[LabRat 891]

There is no reason not to use Dlss, native uses TAA which is exactly not 'clean beauty'

Can't argue w/ TAA artifacts. Though, RDR2 and MW5 (UE4) both look 'bretty bad' w/o TAA; and 'bretty gud' with.

FSR upscaling on CP'77, RDR2, or MechWarrior 5, does not look 'right'; at least after a several moments of gameplay.
(I know, FSR =/= DLSS.) I haven't tried DLSS personally, but what I find unlikeable about FSR, I 'detect' in screenshots and videos of DLSS-enabled gameplay, too.

 

[dgianstefani]

Can't argue w/ TAA artifacts. Though, RDR2 and MW5 (UE4) both look 'bretty bad' w/o TAA; and 'bretty gud' with.

FSR upscaling on CP'77, RDR2, or MechWarrior 5, does not look 'right'; at least after a several moments of gameplay.
(I know, FSR =/= DLSS.) I haven't tried DLSS personally, but what I find unlikeable about FSR, I 'detect' in screenshots and videos of DLSS-enabled gameplay, too.

DLAA is king.

 

[fevgatos]

Can't argue w/ TAA artifacts. Though, RDR2 and MW5 (UE4) both look 'bretty bad' w/o TAA; and 'bretty gud' with.

FSR upscaling on CP'77, RDR2, or MechWarrior 5, does not look 'right'; at least after a several moments of gameplay.
(I know, FSR =/= DLSS.) I haven't tried DLSS personally, but what I find unlikeable about FSR, I 'detect' in screenshots and videos of DLSS-enabled gameplay, too.

I don't k now, when it makes to RDR2 im very confused myself. TAA fits the game in general, but sometimes - when you try looking far ahead, everything is a huge blurry mess, you really can't tell one tree from another. I settled on using DLDSR + DLSS Q, picture is much cleaner that way.

DLAA is king.

NO. DLDSR + DLSS Q > DLAA

Try it. You will be blown away. Not a lot of people know it, but it feels like cheating.

 

[Klemc]

DLDSR i use everytime i can, i have a lot of not that fast paced games tho...

Poiunt & Clicks, adventure games, some less hardware demanding

 

[dgianstefani]

I don't k now, when it makes to RDR2 im very confused myself. TAA fits the game in general, but sometimes - when you try looking far ahead, everything is a huge blurry mess, you really can't tell one tree from another. I settled on using DLDSR + DLSS Q, picture is much cleaner that way.


NO. DLDSR + DLSS Q > DLAA

Try it. You will be blown away. Not a lot of people know it, but it feels like cheating.

Yeah I know technically that's a bit better, but DLDSR screws with multi monitor setups and window positioning when alt tabbing. I can't see any aliasing with DLAA anyway.

I'm not switching to Win 11 just for the superior multimonitor/window management, too many other downsides.

 

[64K]

I don't know about DLAA but I'm pretty sure all the rest of the AA approaches are just Blur Filters. It blurs out the jaggies so you don't notice them as much but it also blurs the textures to a degree.

 

[Klemc]

I don't know about DLAA but I'm pretty sure all the rest of the AA approaches are just Blur Filters. It blurs out the jaggies so you don't notice them as much but it also blurs the textures to a degree.

FSAA ?

I thinked it was llike interlacing, a reconstruct work

 

[phanbuey]

I don't k now, when it makes to RDR2 im very confused myself. TAA fits the game in general, but sometimes - when you try looking far ahead, everything is a huge blurry mess, you really can't tell one tree from another. I settled on using DLDSR + DLSS Q, picture is much cleaner that way.


NO. DLDSR + DLSS Q > DLAA

Try it. You will be blown away. Not a lot of people know it, but it feels like cheating.

How have I not tried this before... this is sick. We need a sticky of this somewhere.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

How have I not tried this before... this is sick. We need a sticky of this somewhere.

I've been doing it for a long time since DLDSR was implemented. It's honestly my primary motivation in grabbing a 4090 so it's viable in more games.


Also WTF

The Lord of the Rings: Gollum Developer is Already at Work on Another Middle-earth Game

Uh oh. It seems the makers of the disastrous The Lord of the Rings: Gollum are already at work on another Middle-earth game.

wccftech.com