AMD Vega Discussion Thread

[Fluffmeister]

RX Vega end of July. AMD trolled so hard on Vega, demo Prey with two Vega. Kinda reminds me of Polaris launch. When you can't beat them with one GPU just use two! They are toning down Vega from flagship lv to mid range lv now.

I assume they showed an FPS counter going through the roof though?

 

[xkm1948]

I assume they showed an FPS counter going through the roof though?

Nope. No FPS display at all. Which is what made me believe VEGA will be DOA

 

[RejZoR]

Which makes you wonder, why not save the RD money, tweak R9 Fury X to carry Polaris cores, 14nm process and higher clocks with added slightly changed memory controller to allow out of onboard memory to be used. They could sell those rather cheap while investing minimal money and still delivering decent performance. Maybe not king of the hill performance, but as RX 480 has shown, you don't have to have that to make decent sales.

 

[cdawall]

I didn't read all posts but when can you actually buy Vega?

Next month for the FE and July for consumers.

 

[FilipM]

End of july, so thats pretty much august

 

[cdawall]

End of july, so thats pretty much august

If it isn't pushed back again. Good news is Volta should be out for January. Guess it is a race now.

 

[xkm1948]

Which makes you wonder, why not save the RD money, tweak R9 Fury X to carry Polaris cores, 14nm process and higher clocks with added slightly changed memory controller to allow out of onboard memory to be used. They could sell those rather cheap while investing minimal money and still delivering decent performance. Maybe not king of the hill performance, but as RX 480 has shown, you don't have to have that to make decent sales.

They were aiming for the top. But the release of 1080Ti and TitanXp squashed RTG's ambition almost instantly. They were using 1080 as performance target.

As I said AMD is trying to tone down Vega as flagship as much as they can. Too little too late and now it can only be a mid-low range card, just like Polaris. This is what happens when you don't have enough R&D for both CPU and GPU.



It would be funny if Half Life 3 comes out earlier though.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Nope. No FPS display at all. Which is what made me believe VEGA will be DOA

obfuscate until out is typically AMd's way, they dont do pre release performance metrics and wont do it this time, im not leaning to or from vega over this , not enough info to change plans or minds got released yesterday.
hbm hold ups aside i dont think Amd have done well with their timing but i don't think we have yet seen what vega in one card can do enough to judge it.

i get your viewpoint but if it isnt ready to be sold today, showing its performance last night would have showed too much hand, from Amd's perspective.

ill be hoping you remember how long it was since you first saw volta the other week untill you can buy that gv100 in consumer land, ill be hoping that next year about now.

 

[cdawall]

They were aiming for the top. But the release of 1080Ti and TitanXp squashed RTG's ambition almost instantly. They were using 1080 as performance target.

As I said AMD is trying to tone down Vega as flagship as much as they can. Too little too late and now it can only be a mid-low range card, just like Polaris. This is what happens when you don't have enough R&D for both CPU and GPU.



It would be funny if Half Life 3 comes out earlier though.

The 1080 was and always has been NV midrange GP100, GP102 then GP104. GP104 is in the same tier as the 8800GT was back in the day, or the GTX460 etc. People think because that last number is an "80" that means high end. Not really they added two tiers above it.

 

[ratirt]

What you are saying is really strange. We all knew NV will release 1080 TI and new titan considering the previous titan X (pascal) wasn't fully enabled GPU so you think AMD missed that? It kinda makes me laugh when saying that the AMD was aiming for 1080 cause they had no idea that there will be 1080Ti and titan X. Maybe the delay is due to HBM2 memory delivery problems. Maybe they will release few Vega cards which has been confirmed and maybe one of those will aim for higher tier than 1080.

 

[RejZoR]

GTX 1080 and mid range? What have you all been sniffing recently? NVIDIA's mid range is GTX 1060, eventually 1070, 1080 is high end, 1080Ti and Titan X is enthusiast.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

What you are saying is really strange. We all knew NV will release 1080 TI and new titan considering the previous titan X (pascal) wasn't fully enabled GPU so you think AMD missed that? It kinda makes me laugh when saying that the AMD was aiming for 1080 cause they had no idea that there will be 1080Ti and titan X. Maybe the delay is due to HBM2 memory delivery problems. Maybe they will release few Vega cards which has been confirmed and maybe one of those will aim for higher tier than 1080.

maybe,,, HBM2 only just got listed on its manufacturer's website a week or two ago ,so all the"at risk" production of it clearly went elsewhere like P100.
i very much doubt AMD were aiming there top Vega at 1080 , they will have 3 to 4 versions of Vega so one will be for sure but that would be a gelded one since a 1080's 2560 cores wont compare favourably to 4096 at similar speeds despite what some think, not in the real world.
throughput is still a function of rescources x speed and always will be, it isnt feckin magic.

 

[rtwjunkie]

GTX 1080 and mid range? What have you all been sniffing recently? NVIDIA's mid range is GTX 1060, eventually 1070, 1080 is high end, 1080Ti and Titan X is enthusiast.

Again, the chip used is NOT their high end chip. Cost is not what makes a GPU a mid or high end. It is purely the chip architecture, and the 1080 is in the same slot as 980, 780, and 680, all of which were on their Gx104, upper-mid end chip. Gx100 or 110 has always been Nvidia's self professed high end. I'm surprised we have to keep going over what NVIDIA themselves have said. Also, go back and read W1zzard's reviews on the chip involved in them.

EDIT: @64K provided some correction, with the 780 not being on 104. This perfectly illustrates why we go by GPU chip architecture, and NOT the card naming to classify.

 

[ratirt]

maybe,,, HBM2 only just got listed on its manufacturer's website a week or two ago ,so all the"at risk" production of it clearly went elsewhere like P100.
i very much doubt AMD were aiming there top Vega at 1080 , they will have 3 to 4 versions of Vega so one will be for sure but that would be a gelded one since a 1080's 2560 cores wont compare favorably to 4096 at similar speeds despite what some think, not in the real world.
throughput is still a function of rescources x speed and always will be, it isnt feckin magic.

We don't know the exact release configurations of Vega and how many there will be. Not counting FE version. Samples doesn't count. It's just samples.

 

[cdawall]

GTX 1080 and mid range? What have you all been sniffing recently? NVIDIA's mid range is GTX 1060, eventually 1070, 1080 is high end, 1080Ti and Titan X is enthusiast.

The 1060 is nvidia bottom of the barrel. They have increased price point for the midrange and lower range due to lack of competition. People now call the "high end" enthusiast grade so they can feel good about buying a midrange GPU. Basically if it doesn't end with 80Ti or start with Titan it isn't high end.

 

[ratirt]

The 1060 is nvidia bottom of the barrel. They have increased price point for the midrange and lower range due to lack of competition. People now call the "high end" enthusiast grade so they can feel good about buying a midrange GPU. Basically if it doesn't end with 80Ti or start with Titan it isn't high end.

With this ideology it would be like, If we have something faster than 1080 high-end card like 1080Ti or titan that would mean lets make 1080 Mid range and those highest cards call high end instead?
With this logic you can always support your opinion. Titan was always an enthusiast card. 1080 TI falls almost like nothing behind it.
and a question or a riddle first titan x( pascal) was.
A) enthusiast card?
B) High end card?
C) Mid range card?

Tell me your criteria and lets play

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

We don't know the exact release configurations of Vega and how many there will be. Not counting FE version. Samples doesn't count. It's just samples.

we don't Know but it is'nt rocket science, they are not going to release just one configuration , i did'nt mention samples ??

im debating based on educated and researched opinion not pulling comments out my ass like some do throughout this forum so if your going to reply don't state the obvious to me ,,,and try and evolve the debate not just add meaningless responses stating the obvious while dodging other more meaningful parts of my first comment

also, before gtx680 came out , its grade of chip Was mid range earthdogs right , it performed very well verses Amd in games alone and became the high end class (I argued at the time it was shit), enabling their first Titan to be released some time later.
a 1080 might be high end to you but in some circles its just a gamer card for evidence see the shelves of stores , wherein the Rx580 is sold out because away from gaming the 1080s performance is meh ,as it should be given that's what its aimed to be.

 

[ratirt]

we don't Know but it is'nt rocket science, they are not going to release just one configuration , i did'nt mention samples ??

im debating based on educated and researched opinion not pulling comments out my ass like some do throughout this forum so if your going to reply don't state the obvious to me ,,,and try and evolve the debate not just add meaningless responses stating the obvious while dodging other more meaningful parts of my first comment

Well actually it is rocket science. 100 of engineers are thinking about how to make this faster.
Learn some good manners. This is my opinion. Stating the obvious? We don't know what the release product will have and how will it perform and that's the one obvious correct fact now.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Well actually it is rocket science. 100 of engineers are thinking about how to make this faster.
Learn some good manners. This is my opinion. Stating the obvious? We don't know what the release product will have and how will it perform and that's the one obvious correct fact now.

right so this is a rumour thread we are debating myphs and farts, so discussing based on opinion is fine here,but stating the obvious helps no one ,stop wasting my time with minutii about my comment and start adding useful comments.

in fact go back stick your head in the sand mate , i have seen what happened with EVERY 3d card launch to date since beginning of 3d cards ,why because i was there watching hopefully, this gpu release wont go along lines so different to what went before , why would it , science dictated this was the best way to make gpus and chips for that matter, so they still make em and release them in the same ways. they did before.
please consider your answer before adding more derailing shit to this thread.

 

[cdawall]

With this ideology it would be like, If we have something faster than 1080 high-end card like 1080Ti or titan that would mean lets make 1080 Mid range and those highest cards call high end instead?
With this logic you can always support your opinion. Titan was always an enthusiast card. 1080 TI falls almost like nothing behind it.
and a question or a riddle first titan x( pascal) was.
A) enthusiast card?
B) High end card?
C) Mid range card?

Tell me your criteria and lets play

High end, there is no such thing as enthusiast grade that is some made up BS of recent.

lets step back a few years

7950GX2, 7950GT were what? High end cards.

8800 Ultra, 8800 GTX, 8800GTS Also high end
8800GT, 8800GS midrange

9800GX2, 9800GTX, high end
9800GT, 9800GS mid range

Titan (kepler) 780Ti, high end
780, 770 mid range

Titan X (maxwell), 980Ti, high end
980, 970 mid range

Titan X(p), 1080Ti, high end
1080, 1070, midrange

Nothing has changed in 20 years just the names.

 

[ratirt]

High end, there is no such thing as enthusiast grade that is some made up BS of recent.

lets step back a few years

7950GX2, 7950GT were what? High end cards.

8800 Ultra, 8800 GTX, 8800GTS Also high end
8800GT, 8800GS midrange

9800GX2, 9800GTX, high end
9800GT, 9800GS mid range

Titan (kepler) 780Ti, high end
780, 770 mid range

Titan X (maxwell), 980Ti, high end
980, 970 mid range

Titan X(p), 1080Ti, high end
1080, 1070, midrange

Nothing has changed in 20 years just the names.

Yeah it really didn't.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

try here?

 

[64K]

High end, there is no such thing as enthusiast grade that is some made up BS of recent.

lets step back a few years

7950GX2, 7950GT were what? High end cards.

8800 Ultra, 8800 GTX, 8800GTS Also high end
8800GT, 8800GS midrange

9800GX2, 9800GTX, high end
9800GT, 9800GS mid range

Titan (kepler) 780Ti, high end
780, 770 mid range

Titan X (maxwell), 980Ti, high end
980, 970 mid range

Titan X(p), 1080Ti, high end
1080, 1070, midrange

Nothing has changed in 20 years just the names.

The only thing I would disagree with you on is the GTX 780. It was the GK110 just like what was in the GTX 780 Ti with the same size memory bus but with fewer cores. I think it was the solution to getting rid of some chips that were salvaged from the Kepler Titans. The GTX 770 and GTX 680 had the GK 104 chip with the 256 bit bus.

The whole naming scheme was changed with the mid range GTX 680 being named as if it were high end with a high end $500 MSRP.

 

[ratirt]

right so this is a rumour thread we are debating myphs and farts, so discussing based on opinion is fine here,but stating the obvious helps no one ,stop wasting my time with minutii about my comment and start adding useful comments.

in fact go back stick your head in the sand mate , i have seen what happened with EVERY 3d card launch to date since beginning of 3d cards ,why because i was there watching hopefully, this gpu release wont go along lines so different to what went before , why would it , science dictated this was the best way to make gpus and chips for that matter, so they still make em and release them in the same ways. they did before.
please consider your answer before adding more derailing shit to this thread.

What god damn myth did i say? That you shouldn't judge the product and tell us in which tier it will land? How did you deducted where it will land? Based on core count or Mhz ? that's not even myth or fart it's shit.
Well i guess you already know everything. So lets here it Guru. Were the top vega product will end up in comparison to current NV cards? Just say where with your extensive knowledge. It's quite simple question.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Yeah it really didn't.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

try here?

You see its Google foo hunters like you that truly are ruining the world , a 6800 was never an enthusiats card despite nv doing said page ,did you buy one? Have you run one , i did for 1 month then it got flipped.
Again earthdogs right on the grander point yet you sidestep to talking about what is an enthusiast card.
Op ????

Vega Xt. @ 10% above or below 1080ti dep on app
Vega Xs ? @ 1080 performance +10%
Vega Lt nano at 1070 performance+10%
All dependant on the game load

All ishy guestimates just for you

 

[cdawall]

Yeah it really didn't.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_6800.html

try here?

So what would an enthusiast buy? He would buy the highest end product possible. Enthusiast grade is synonymous with high end.

The only thing I would disagree with you on is the GTX 780. It was the GK110 just like what was in the GTX 780 Ti with the same size memory bus but with fewer cores. I think it was the solution to getting rid of some chips that were salvaged from the Kepler Titans. The GTX 770 and GTX 680 had the GK 104 chip with the 256 bit bus.

The whole naming scheme was changed with the mid range GTX 680 being named as if it were high end with a high end $500 MSRP.

That is the one that had me off a bit and I assumed someone would call it (I almost mentioned it lol) my only complaint would be just how much it was cut down. I mean there are gp104 dies cut up for the 1060 3gb as well. Doesn't make them a better card...

What god damn myth did i say? That you shouldn't judge the product and tell us in which tier it will land? How did you deducted where it will land? Based on core count or Mhz ? that's not even myth or fart it's shit.
Well i guess you already know everything. So lets here it Guru. Were the top vega product will end up in comparison to current NV cards? Just say where with your extensive knowledge. It's quite simple question.

Core count matches a pair of 480/580's. Performance will be increased by hbm and the higher clocks (although not linear due to longer pipelines). It will probably match the 1080Ti in vulkan/dx12 and match the 1080 in the rest. All while consuming more power than a 1080ti.