Legality of TPU Hosting DLSS DLLs

[moproblems99]

There's just really no comparison here between copyrights/EULA & pedophilia in regards to the law & its severity.

Other than the law is the law.

 

[Aquinus]

@lexluthermiester give me until the morning to come up with a well formulated response. The bourbon isn't going to give you a response worthy of your rebuttal. It's been a long day and I don't feel like going into a deep response right now.

 

[Hachi_Roku256563]

This is possibly going to sound dumb but what use is a nvidea dlss dll by itself
is it similar to how you can get some windows dlls that come from things that wont install under 10 and paste them in a game dir and it will run even though the actual thing isent installed
*i had to do a similar thing for a program*

 

[lexluthermiester]

Why do you resort to ad hominem? I've made my stance pretty clear, but when push comes to shove you seem like really like applying connotation labels.

You say that like it's a bad thing. Stop vilifying someone who is only acting as a voice of reason and logic.

Regardless, people attempting to cause problems for TPU over what is effectively a deeply flawed interpretation of both legal statue and EULA terms & conditions is a MUCH bigger problem.

 

[MentalAcetylide]

Why do you resort to ad hominem? I've made my stance pretty clear, but when push comes to shove you seem like really like applying connotation labels.

Well, its like me having a problem with a company I work for and putting up a post on the public bulletin board about it. Then it unnecessarily becomes everyone's problem. Its no different than the way some choose to use social media. They have an axe to grind so the first thing they do is twitter or disgrace book to the masses. Of course you're going to rile some feathers doing this.

 

[InVasMani]

Did anyone even happen to directly or privately ask W1z if he contacted Nvidia on this matter rather just speculating about what TPU did or didn't do possibly or otherwise illegal potentially or hypothetically under the law? He's a difficult one to get in contact with I know...especially here on TPU. I'm just going to go out on a limb by stating that TPU and it's staff probably has a good idea about the situation at hand in question more than speculation circulating around it. The legalities of it I suppose are another matter, but as far as TPU's legal binding in relation with Nvidia is a perhaps a different situation entirely. That's just a hunch though.

 

[moproblems99]

Regardless, people attempting to cause problems for TPU over what is effectively a deeply flawed interpretation of both legal statue and EULA terms & conditions is a MUCH bigger problem.

Why look at it as a negative. All he sought was clarification. They can choose to provide it or not. If Nvidia isn't ok, they'll just ask to take it down. If they are, everyone's life will go on and it will be clear for all. Not sure why anyone needs to make it more difficult than that.

 

[lexluthermiester]

@lexluthermiester give me until the morning to come up with a well formulated response. The bourbon isn't going to give you a response worthy of your rebuttal. It's been a long day and I don't feel like going into a deep response right now.

Oh, sure. Go sleep that off. Such a response is no doubt going to be predictable, but should also be entertaining.

For the record, I'm not fanboying, bootlicking(eh @claes?), ass-kissing or shoving my nose where the Sun doesn't shine. TPU has made a few mistakes in the past and I have been one of the people to more or less politely point them out.

TPU IN THIS SITUATION, has done no wrong. At all, full stop, end of fraking discussion. It's not our problem, responsibility, accountability or stewardship. This matter rests fully and exclusively with W1zzard(& staff) and NVidia.

Did anyone even happen to directly or privately ask W1z if he contacted Nvidia on this matter rather just speculating about what TPU did or didn't do

W1z did create this thread to give the discussion a better home, so clearly he didn't want to be seen as censoring critics.

TPU is seemingly hosting modified DLSS DLL files.

NVIDIA DLSS DLL 310.2 Download

This download provides various versions of NVIDIA's DLSS DLL for download. In this one file, which is bundled with all games that support NVIDIA's

www.techpowerup.com

So the circumstances are clear. The drama being created here is a vapid argument of legality, IMHO.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Why look at it as a negative. All he sought was clarification. They can choose to provide it or not. If Nvidia isn't ok, they'll just ask to take it down. If they are, everyone's life will go on and it will be clear for all. Not sure why anyone needs to make it more difficult than that.

There-in presents the flaw in thought: You(and others) assume TPU is doing something wrong. You also assume that NVidia has the option to take down those downloads. Both notions are incorrect.

 

[Zubasa]

With all this drama, did nVidia actually said anything about it?
Or is it just people having concern for nVidia's "rights" more so than the company itself?

 

[R-T-B]

With all this drama, did nVidia actually said anything about it?
Or is it just people having concern for nVidia's "rights" more so than the company itself?

Too early to say, honestly. Nothing in a corperation moves fast.

 

[Mussels]

Not really. The rights holder, in this case NVidia, is still protected from infringment even when the transporters of said protected works are not bound by the governing EULA.

More to the point, distributing a "dll" file, modified or not, does not violate ANY protection afford by law to the creator as that DLL can not function on it's own. It is a part of a software suite that can not be used without fisrt accepting an EULA. Therefore NVidias rights are not violated by making a modified DLL available for download as such does NOT injure them in any way, does not infringe upon the protected rights and does not circumvent, or attempt to circumvent, NVidias creator rights.

This is the part i had diffculty wording earlier

the file is not modified, no protections are broken, and it cannot be used except in previously supported applications with an applicable EULA for that file/feature/product

And again: how is this different to hosting the BIOS files here? What's changed? This practice has been going on for decades with no company caring.

 

[R-T-B]

And again: how is this different to hosting the BIOS files here?

The restrictive EULA in play.

There-in presents the flaw in thought: You(and others) assume TPU is doing something wrong. You also assume that NVidia has the option to take down those downloads. Both notions are incorrect.

We've provided our arguments for why it is wrong, including citing lines in the eula. You need to do better deconstructing our arguments than just stating we are wrong, it is unenforcable, etc... What is unenforcable? Why? Quotes please.

 

[cvaldes]

From what game it is anyway?

From my notes, DLSS 2.2.10.0 is from Rust.

Other recent versions:

2.2.9.0 - Unreal Engine 5
2.2.6.0 - Rainbow Siege Six
2.1.66.0 - Doom Eternal
2.1.63 - No Man's Sky
2.1.58 - ?
2.1.55 - Metro Exodus PC Enhanced Version
2.1.52 - Fortnite
2.1.51 - ?
2.1.40 - Rogue Company
2.1.39 - Cyberpunk 2077

 

[lexluthermiester]

This is the part i had diffculty wording earlier

the file is not modified, no protections are broken, and it cannot be used except in previously supported applications with an applicable EULA for that file/feature/product

And again: how is this different to hosting the BIOS files here? What's changed? This practice has been going on for decades with no company caring.

Wait, clarity please. Those DLL's are NOT modded/customized?

 

[cvaldes]

Wait, clarity please. Those DLL's are NOT modded/customized?

That's the point. They can be dropped in to replace existing DLSS dlls for other games.

Did you not read the actual article? This has been covered on multiple PC gaming media sites (as well as general discussion forums like Reddit), not just TechPowerUp.

The game specific DLSS optimizations (profiles) ship with the GeForce driver software not the DLSS dll.

For a videogame to feature DLSS it needs three things: A.) DLSS support in the game software itself, B.) a compatible DLSS library file, and C.) the optimized game profile from the GeForce driver. The latter is provided by Nvidia based on their supercomputers analyzing game graphics. And these three requirements are beyond the hardware support requirement.

As I repeatedly mentioned, it's not like you can drop a random DLSS dll into the Minesweeper folder and automagically get DLSS support for that game.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The restrictive EULA in play.

No, it isn't. The EULA does not apply here.

We've provided our arguments for why it is wrong

You have. They do not apply to this situation.

including citing lines in the eula.

Sure. And when the files are used the EULA is already in effect by the user using them.

You need to do better deconstructing our arguments than just stating we are wrong

Oh sure, because that's what I always do...

What is unenforceable? Why? Quotes please.

I've already explained that...

That's the point. They can be dropped in to replace existing DLSS dlls for other games.

Did you not read the actual article? This has been covered on multiple PC gaming media sites, not just TechPowerUp.

The game specific DLSS optimizations (profiles) ship with the GeForce driver software not the DLSS dll.

You're talking about this?

NVIDIA DLSS DLL 310.2 Download

This download provides various versions of NVIDIA's DLSS DLL for download. In this one file, which is bundled with all games that support NVIDIA's

www.techpowerup.com

If not, no, I've only seen this thread.

 

[cvaldes]

"Recent discussions on tech forums and Reddit revealed that the DLSS libraries, which are usually located in the game's installation folders, are user-swappable, meaning that one can replace their DLSS library file for a different version that enables a different set of features or potentially even image quality or performance improvements."

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/284182/techpowerup-hosts-nvidia-dlss-client-libraries

Maybe a little extra research -- including reading other non-TPU sources -- should be in your strategy next time you post an opinion.

If you're trying to follow PC graphics/videogame technology, single sourcing your information is unwise.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, DLSS wasn't unveiled by Nvidia last week. It has been around for a couple of years. But do as you wish. You have contributed greatly to the overall amusement level of this discussion.

 

[lexluthermiester]

"Recent discussions on tech forums and Reddit revealed that the DLSS libraries, which are usually located in the game's installation folders, are user-swappable, meaning that one can replace their DLSS library file for a different version that enables a different set of features or potentially even image quality or performance improvements."

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/284182/techpowerup-hosts-nvidia-dlss-client-libraries

Actually yes, I did see that article. Didn't see the discussion before it got moved. This changes nothing...

Maybe a little extra research -- including reading other non-TPU sources -- should be in your strategy next time you post an opinion.

Gee, really? Ok then...

If you trying to follow PC graphics/videogame technology, single sourcing your information is unwise.

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it under consideration...

 

[cvaldes]

Thanks for the advice, I'll take it under consideration...

Do as you wish.

I did mention that you have contributed greatly to the amusement level of this discussion. It's entirely your choice whether or not you want to continue providing this entertainment.

As I have repeatedly stated in this thread, this has been marvelously entertaining in way that only a handful of other Internet discussions have rivaled.

Continue as you were.

 

[claes]

bootlicking(eh @claes?),

You rang? Are you calling me a bootlicker lol?

 

[R-T-B]

Ok wow, I like that line from star wars but since just-picture memes are against the rules (forgot this), I'll repeat my point a different way and clarify this is not meant as bait, it is a legitmate point:



Just saying something does not make it true. And no what I quoted was NOT being presented as merely opinion.

Example:

Sure. And when the files are used the EULA is already in effect by the user using them.

Then you are choosing to use the game EULA of whatever game. We've been over this. This does not help you.

If you did not sign any EULA, then you are running afoul of copyright law.

If anyone really wants to test this, I'd suggest hiring a lawyer, which none of us are. But I'm probably as close as you'll get for free.

The bottom line of this is:

1.) He had every right to question if it's a EULA violation, because it is.

2.) I really doubt anyone believes that it's "so illegal" anything terrible will happen. At most nvidia will clarify for us.

3.) Anyone making it out to be more than that are the true special people here.

How this is still going on is... indeed weird.

 

[Mussels]

Wait, clarity please. Those DLL's are NOT modded/customized?

no ones touching these files, only copying them from one game to another. they are left untouched, in the original state.

Two games that use DLSS 2.x can swap files, thats all.

 

[W1zzard]

He's [w1zzard] a difficult one to get in contact with I know...especially here on TPU

lol no? my contact details are posted everywhere

 

[Mussels]

No one may know his real name without being uninstalled from reality, but he's super easy to contact both via the forum (and he does reply to PMs) and his email is on the contact page