• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

My new toy - 4890

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
Well as you may know. one of my GX2's died. and without the E-peen what fun is the system anymore? Well it lead to boredom and so i tradded my remanding GX2 for a 4890! Immedietly afer i opened the box i walked downstairs got my TIM and precision screwdrivers and got to work..right their on the spot. i didnt even test it b4 hand :p after the surgery. i plugged it in and 5min later.



then played with l4d



then i stressed and passed



it may not be anything spectacular im to understand these are common clocks for the 4890 but im proud its been years since iv even been ATI last ATI card i owned was a x1600pro with XT core. so what now TPU?
 

DirectorC

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
1,624 (0.31/day)
Location
Florizy
System Name -= Son of a Whore =-
Processor E8400 @ 4.0GHz (445 x 9)
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212+
Memory 3GB Corsair XMS2
Video Card(s) EVGA 8800 GT 512
Storage 74GB Raptor + Caviars in RAID0
Display(s) I-Inc 19" LCD 1440x900
Audio Device(s) Audigy SE & Logitech X-540
Power Supply Corsair 750TX
Software Win32 v6.1.7600
Benchmark Scores Logitech KB & Sidewinder X3
Why did you trade a GX2 for a 4890?
 
Joined
Nov 9, 2008
Messages
2,318 (0.41/day)
Location
Texas
System Name Mr. Reliable
Processor Ryzen R9 5950x
Motherboard MSI Meg X570s Ace Max
Cooling D5 Pump, Singularity Top/Res, 2x360mm EK P rads, EK Magnitude/Alphacool Blocks
Memory 32Gb (4x8Gb) Corsair Dominator Platinum 3600Mhz @ 16/19/20/36 1.35v
Video Card(s) MSI 3080ti with Alphacool Block
Storage 2 x Corsair Force MP400 1TB Nvme; 2 x T-Force Cardea Z340; 2 x Mushkin Reactor 1TB
Display(s) Acer 32" Z321QU 2560x1440; LG 34GP83A-B 34" 3440x1440
Case Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic XL; Synology DS218j w/ 2 x 2TB WD Red
Audio Device(s) SteelSeries Arctis Pro+
Power Supply EVGA SuperNova 850G3
Mouse Razer Basilisk V2
Keyboard Das Keyboard 6; Razer Orbweaver Chroma
Software Windows 10 Pro
Congrats Sol...nice clocks. Now you just need to grab another (because I know you want to :D). 4890 crossfire is exceptionally fast... :toast:
 

theonedub

habe fidem
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
8,025 (1.46/day)
Location
Northern CA, USA
System Name Erakith || AsRock NUCS
Processor AMD ThreadRipper 2990WX ES (32c/64t 3.5ghz@1.02v) || Intel i7 1360P Raptor Lake-P
Motherboard MSI X399 MEG Creation || AsRock OE
Cooling EK Supremacy TR4 Full Nickel, D5 w/ EK Top, 2X EK-CoolStream XTX 360 & Photon 270 Res || OE
Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance PRO RGB DDR4 3000|| 2x16GB Corsair DDR4
Video Card(s) Vega 64 EK FC|| Intel Iris Xe
Storage 250gb WD Black NVMe & (2) 2TB Intel 660p NVMe || 2TB Corsair MP600 Pro
Display(s) 34" Dell Ultrasharp U3415W
Case CaseLabs Merlin SM8 || Aluminum Unibody
Power Supply Corsair HX1000
Mouse Corsair Harpoon Wireless RGB
Keyboard Corsair Strafe RGB w/ Cherry MX Silent
Software Windows 10 Pro x64 || WIndows 11 Pro x64
Benchmark Scores WCG & F@H Only
Why did you trade a GX2 for a 4890?

Well as you may know. one of my GX2's died. and without the E-peen what fun is the system anymore? Well it lead to boredom and so i tradded my remanding GX2 for a 4890! Immedietly afer i opened the box i walked downstairs got my TIM and precision screwdrivers and got to work..right their on the spot. i didnt even test it b4 hand :p after the surgery. i plugged it in and 5min later.

Im going to guess thats why.
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
Why did you trade a GX2 for a 4890?

because i wanted too thats why. this isnt a discussion about why i did anything if you want that go attempt to post in my closed FT thread please.

@ everyone else thanks!! im just not sure what to do now maybe ill look for a block and WC it ill try to break 1GHz and of course ill be letting you know!
 

Sailindawg

New Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
31 (0.01/day)
Processor Q6600
Motherboard Black Ops
Cooling D-Tek Fuzion v2, MCW30 + Swiftech MCR Drive 360
Memory 8 G Mushkin D9GTR/S
Video Card(s) 5870
Storage Intel X-25 + Raptors
Display(s) HP LP2475
Case CM Stacker TC101
Audio Device(s) X-Fi Xtreme Music
Power Supply PCP&C 910 Silencer
Software Win 7 64 bit Pro
Keep clockin' mate!! and have fun while your at it!! :toast:
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,175 (0.55/day)
Location
Brockport, NY
System Name Is rly gud
Processor Intel Core i5 11600kf
Motherboard Asus Prime Z590-V ATX
Memory (48GB total) 16GB (2x8GB) Crucial Ballistix Sport 3000MHZ and G. Skill Ripjaws 32GB 3200MHZ (2x16GB)
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3060 12GB
Storage 1TB MSI Spatium M370 NVMe M.2 SSD
Display(s) 32" Viewsonic 4k, 34" Samsung 3440x1440, XP Pen Creative Pro 13.3
Power Supply EVGA 600 80+ Gold
VR HMD Meta Quest Pro, Tundra Trackers
Software Windows 10
Switching between brands is fun, even if they're about the same level. I did something similar a few weeks ago. XD

When my loop is finished, I'ma see how far I can take the 4870. It obviously maxes out CCC overdrive with ease. /mixed feelings
 
Joined
Aug 11, 2007
Messages
2,313 (0.38/day)
Location
If I told u.. I'd have to kill u
System Name Hogan's Crap
Processor Intel i3-2120 Crap!
Motherboard Dell POS Crap!
Cooling Stock Crap!
Memory 4 GB Kingston DDR3 10600 Crap!
Video Card(s) Stock Crap!
Storage 500 GB 5400 rpm Crap!
Software Windows 10 64bit
That looks like a good card you got there. The one I had would do 950 to 975/ 1200 with no problem. Only thing about the 4890's is the heat. They are hot running cards if you dont give it an upgrade on the grease or cooling. Under water who knows how high she will go. :toast:
 

DirectorC

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
1,624 (0.31/day)
Location
Florizy
System Name -= Son of a Whore =-
Processor E8400 @ 4.0GHz (445 x 9)
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212+
Memory 3GB Corsair XMS2
Video Card(s) EVGA 8800 GT 512
Storage 74GB Raptor + Caviars in RAID0
Display(s) I-Inc 19" LCD 1440x900
Audio Device(s) Audigy SE & Logitech X-540
Power Supply Corsair 750TX
Software Win32 v6.1.7600
Benchmark Scores Logitech KB & Sidewinder X3
because i wanted too thats why. this isnt a discussion about why i did anything if you want that go attempt to post in my closed FT thread please.

What's with the tude? I just think that's a weeeiiirrddd decision as GX2's so much faster.
 

95Viper

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
12,716 (2.24/day)
Nice Solaris17. For just 5 minutes of fun, so far. But don't 'cha love that current draw. I love it when a card demands to be fed... thank goodness for high current rails.:)
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,175 (0.55/day)
Location
Brockport, NY
System Name Is rly gud
Processor Intel Core i5 11600kf
Motherboard Asus Prime Z590-V ATX
Memory (48GB total) 16GB (2x8GB) Crucial Ballistix Sport 3000MHZ and G. Skill Ripjaws 32GB 3200MHZ (2x16GB)
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3060 12GB
Storage 1TB MSI Spatium M370 NVMe M.2 SSD
Display(s) 32" Viewsonic 4k, 34" Samsung 3440x1440, XP Pen Creative Pro 13.3
Power Supply EVGA 600 80+ Gold
VR HMD Meta Quest Pro, Tundra Trackers
Software Windows 10
What's with the tude? I just think that's a weeeiiirrddd decision as GX2's so much faster.

Not by much. In games that don't scale well (A lot of them) it'd be about the same or slower.
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
What's with the tude? I just think that's a weeeiiirrddd decision as GX2's so much faster.

i dont bench anymore i lost intrest. I would have hoped people on the forum would assume i checked perfomance levels before accepting the trade. Sorry i just didnt want this to tunr into sone kind of flame war. I just wanted something new to play with and a brand change gave that to me.
 
Joined
May 5, 2009
Messages
2,270 (0.41/day)
Location
the uk that's all you need to know ;)
System Name not very good (wants throwing out window most of time)
Processor xp3000@ 2.17ghz pile of sh** /i7 920 DO on air for now
Motherboard msi kt6 delta oap /gigabyte x58 ud7 (rev1.0)
Cooling 1 green akasa 8cm(rear) 1 multicoloured akasa(hd) 1 12 cm (intake) 1 9cm with circuit from old psu
Memory 1.25 gb kingston hyperx @333mhz/ 3gb corsair dominator xmp 1600mhz
Video Card(s) (agp) hd3850 not bad not really suitable for mobo n processor/ gb hd5870
Storage wd 320gb + samsung 320 gig + wd 1tb 6gb/s
Display(s) compaq mv720
Case thermaltake XaserIII skull / coolermaster cm 690II
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply corsair hx 650 w which solved many problems (blew up) /850w corsair
Software xp pro sp3/ ? win 7 ultimate (32 bit)
Benchmark Scores 6543 3d mark05 ye ye not good but look at the processor /uknown as still not benched
congrats on the new card :toast:

yes get it water cooled

tpu demands it do you hear me .gif wink.gif
 
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
2,668 (0.45/day)
Location
Earth
I always liked the 4890's , the just seemed to run a little smoother and faster, don't know what it was but i really liked those cards
 

CDdude55

Crazy 4 TPU!!!
Joined
Jul 12, 2007
Messages
8,178 (1.33/day)
Location
Virginia
System Name CDdude's Rig!
Processor AMD Athlon II X4 620
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3
Cooling Corsair H70
Memory 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz
Video Card(s) XFX HD 6970 2GB
Storage OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB
Display(s) ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080
Case Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window)
Audio Device(s) Onboard (It sounds fine)
Power Supply Corsair 850TX
Software Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1
Very nice Sol.:)

Have fun with the new card. I'm still lovin my 4870 (though i soon will probably move to a 5850).

Very nice clocks to, should own in games.(if you game)
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
Very nice Sol.:)

Have fun with the new card. I'm still lovin my 4870 (though i soon will probably move to a 5850).

Very nice clocks to, should own in games.(if you game)

benching is one thing....but my my do I game
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
2,452 (0.40/day)
System Name PC
Processor i7 9700KF
Motherboard MSI Z390 A PRO
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000mhz
Video Card(s) PALIT RTX 4070 Dual 12Gb
Storage 2X Crucial MX500 2TB SSD, Samsung 850 pro 512gb SSD
Display(s) DELL C34H89x 34" Ultrawide
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D
Audio Device(s) Audioengine A5+ Speakers
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G403
Keyboard Corsair Vengeance K70
Software Windows 10 64bit
awesome dude...
Ive put my 4890 in my 2nd gaming rig and replaced it with a 5850.... and guess what... im pretty sure the 4890 was faster .... definately noticeably faster in GTA4... must do a comparison soon
 
Joined
Jul 19, 2006
Messages
43,587 (6.70/day)
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D
Motherboard ASUS TUF x670e
Cooling EK AIO 360. Phantek T30 fans.
Memory 32GB G.Skill 6000Mhz
Video Card(s) Asus RTX 4090
Storage WD m.2
Display(s) LG C2 Evo OLED 42"
Case Lian Li PC 011 Dynamic Evo
Audio Device(s) Topping E70 DAC, SMSL SP200 Headphone Amp.
Power Supply FSP Hydro Ti PRO 1000W
Mouse Razer Basilisk V3 Pro
Keyboard Tester84
Software Windows 11
Sol, what did you have to do to get 1ghz on the core?


awesome dude...
Ive put my 4890 in my 2nd gaming rig and replaced it with a 5850.... and guess what... im pretty sure the 4890 was faster .... definately noticeably faster in GTA4... must do a comparison soon

Definitely not. I went from a Toxic 4890 1ghz to a 5850 and the 5850 is most definitely faster in everything.
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
3,175 (0.55/day)
Location
Brockport, NY
System Name Is rly gud
Processor Intel Core i5 11600kf
Motherboard Asus Prime Z590-V ATX
Memory (48GB total) 16GB (2x8GB) Crucial Ballistix Sport 3000MHZ and G. Skill Ripjaws 32GB 3200MHZ (2x16GB)
Video Card(s) GIGABYTE RTX 3060 12GB
Storage 1TB MSI Spatium M370 NVMe M.2 SSD
Display(s) 32" Viewsonic 4k, 34" Samsung 3440x1440, XP Pen Creative Pro 13.3
Power Supply EVGA 600 80+ Gold
VR HMD Meta Quest Pro, Tundra Trackers
Software Windows 10
awesome dude...
Ive put my 4890 in my 2nd gaming rig and replaced it with a 5850.... and guess what... im pretty sure the 4890 was faster .... definately noticeably faster in GTA4... must do a comparison soon

Probably a driver thing. Did you completely wipe your drivers before installing the new card?
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2007
Messages
2,452 (0.40/day)
System Name PC
Processor i7 9700KF
Motherboard MSI Z390 A PRO
Cooling Noctua NH-U14S
Memory 32GB Corsair Vengeance DDR4 3000mhz
Video Card(s) PALIT RTX 4070 Dual 12Gb
Storage 2X Crucial MX500 2TB SSD, Samsung 850 pro 512gb SSD
Display(s) DELL C34H89x 34" Ultrawide
Case Corsair Obsidian 550D
Audio Device(s) Audioengine A5+ Speakers
Power Supply Corsair RM750
Mouse Logitech G403
Keyboard Corsair Vengeance K70
Software Windows 10 64bit
Sol, what did you have to do to get 1ghz on the core?




Definitely not. I went from a Toxic 4890 1ghz to a 5850 and the 5850 is most definitely faster in everything.

the 4890 is noticeably faster in GTA4... mind you my 4890 was a bit clocked and my 5850 is stock
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
Sol, what did you have to do to get 1ghz on the core?




Definitely not. I went from a Toxic 4890 1ghz to a 5850 and the 5850 is most definitely faster in everything.

i looked online at what people were doing to OC because its been years since i OC'd an ATI they used msi after burner and tyler told me that GPUtool could edit voltages so i downloaded them fished and found most people were hitting 1ghz on 1.4 core so i put it a tad over and just moved the sliders :)
 

DirectorC

New Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
1,624 (0.31/day)
Location
Florizy
System Name -= Son of a Whore =-
Processor E8400 @ 4.0GHz (445 x 9)
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3R
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212+
Memory 3GB Corsair XMS2
Video Card(s) EVGA 8800 GT 512
Storage 74GB Raptor + Caviars in RAID0
Display(s) I-Inc 19" LCD 1440x900
Audio Device(s) Audigy SE & Logitech X-540
Power Supply Corsair 750TX
Software Win32 v6.1.7600
Benchmark Scores Logitech KB & Sidewinder X3
Not by much. In games that don't scale well (A lot of them) it'd be about the same or slower.

Oh, I thought most games had huge FPS gains with dual video cards these days. I'm really not a big fan or supporter of dual GPU solutions myself.

As far as single GPU goes, well we all know how powerful the 4890 is.
 

MKmods

Case Mod Guru
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
5,697 (0.96/day)
Location
Nevada
System Name Crossflow III
Processor AMD 965 (4.04Ghz)
Motherboard Asus Crosshair III
Cooling Air
Memory 4 gigs Mushkin 7-7-7-20@1T
Video Card(s) single 9800GT
Storage Raptor 150's in Raid0
Display(s) LG Flatron 24"
Case Custom
Audio Device(s) AuzenTech X-Raider W/OP637
Power Supply Custom modded Corsair 750HX
Software Win 7 64/Solaris Utility
Benchmark Scores 3DMark06--21963 so far
what cooler does the 4890 have?, those temps look pretty good..
 

Solaris17

Super Dainty Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 16, 2005
Messages
25,931 (3.79/day)
Location
Alabama
System Name Rocinante
Processor I9 14900KS
Motherboard EVGA z690 Dark KINGPIN (modded BIOS)
Cooling EK-AIO Elite 360 D-RGB
Memory 64GB Gskill Trident Z5 DDR5 6000 @6400
Video Card(s) MSI SUPRIM Liquid X 4090
Storage 1x 500GB 980 Pro | 1x 1TB 980 Pro | 1x 8TB Corsair MP400
Display(s) Philips Evnia 49M2C8900
Case Lian Li o11 Evo Dynamic White
Audio Device(s) Moondrop S8's on Schiit Hel 2e
Power Supply Bequiet! Power Pro 12 1500w
Mouse Lamzu Atlantis mini (White)
Keyboard Monsgeek M3 Lavender, Akko Crystal Blues
VR HMD Quest 3
Software Windows 11
Benchmark Scores I dont have time for that.
what cooler does the 4890 have?, those temps look pretty good..

stock reapplied AS ceramique though when i got it
 
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
2,255 (0.38/day)
System Name HOMECOMPUTER
Processor Intel i9 - 9900k @ 5.1Ghz - 1.31v
Motherboard Asux ROG Maximus XI Hero Wifi
Cooling ek supremacy evo full nickle, 2xEK 360 Radiators, ek d5 pump/res combo, ek full cover 2080ti block
Memory 16GB DDR 3600 Trident Z RGB
Video Card(s) Gigabyte RTX 2080TI
Storage 1xWD black NVME 500GB, 1xSamsung 970 Evo Plus NVME 1TB
Display(s) 2 Dell Gaming 27" 1440P Gsync
Case Lian LI PC-011 Dynamic
Audio Device(s) onboard
Power Supply Evga P2 1200Watt
Mouse Zowie FK1+
Keyboard Corsair Strafe rgb silent
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores i'm working on that
grats on the new toy. My gtx 285 is still serving me faithfully, however i'm quickly beginning to yern for a 5870, i need a brand switch, wicked bad myself, oh and a faster card overall.
 
Top