I don't think I implied it was a worthy exscuse. I was simply stating the obvious. They simply got screwed by TSMC on 32nm which created a hole avalanche of problems on 40nm.
System Name | MY PC |
---|---|
Processor | E8400 @ 3.80Ghz > Q9650 3.60Ghz |
Motherboard | Maximus Formula |
Cooling | D5, 7/16" ID Tubing, Maze4 with Fuzion CPU WB |
Memory | XMS 8500C5D @ 1066MHz |
Video Card(s) | HD 2900 XT 858/900 to 4870 to 5870 (Keep Vreg area clean) |
Storage | 2 |
Display(s) | 24" |
Case | P180 |
Audio Device(s) | X-fi Plantinum |
Power Supply | Silencer 750 |
Software | XP Pro SP3 to Windows 7 |
Benchmark Scores | This varies from one driver to another. |
I don't think I implied it was a worthy exscuse. I was simply stating the obvious. They simply got screwed by TSMC on 32nm which created a hole avalanche of problems on 40nm.
System Name | RiseZEN Gaming PC |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 5800X @ Auto |
Motherboard | Asus ROG Strix X570-E Gaming ATX Motherboard |
Cooling | Corsair H115i Elite Capellix AIO, 280mm Radiator, Dual RGB 140mm ML Series PWM Fans |
Memory | G.Skill TridentZ 64GB (4 x 16GB) DDR4 3200 |
Video Card(s) | ASUS DUAL RX 6700 XT DUAL-RX6700XT-12G |
Storage | Corsair Force MP500 480GB M.2 & MP510 480GB M.2 - 2 x WD_BLACK 1TB SN850X NVMe 1TB |
Display(s) | ASUS ROG Strix 34” XG349C 180Hz 1440p + Asus ROG 27" MG278Q 144Hz WQHD 1440p |
Case | Corsair Obsidian Series 450D Gaming Case |
Audio Device(s) | SteelSeries 5Hv2 w/ Sound Blaster Z SE |
Power Supply | Corsair RM750x Power Supply |
Mouse | Razer Death-Adder + Viper 8K HZ Ambidextrous Gaming Mouse - Ergonomic Left Hand Edition |
Keyboard | Logitech G910 Orion Spectrum RGB Gaming Keyboard |
Software | Windows 11 Pro - 64-Bit Edition |
Benchmark Scores | I'm the Doctor, Doctor Who. The Definition of Gaming is PC Gaming... |
Just my point the performance difference is so little the HD 6970 comes out on top for price/performance.Hardocp doesn't use the same settings for each test card, it rates the card on playable frame rates and what their max playable settings are.
http://hardocp.com/images/articles/1292337625zR9jST7GBp_3_2.gif
5870 settings are lower
http://hardocp.com/images/articles/1292337625zR9jST7GBp_5_2.gif
System Name | CDdude's Rig! |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Athlon II X4 620 |
Motherboard | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 |
Cooling | Corsair H70 |
Memory | 8GB Corsair Vengence @1600mhz |
Video Card(s) | XFX HD 6970 2GB |
Storage | OCZ Agility 3 60GB SSD/WD Velociraptor 300GB |
Display(s) | ASUS VH232H 23" 1920x1080 |
Case | Cooler Master CM690 (w/ side window) |
Audio Device(s) | Onboard (It sounds fine) |
Power Supply | Corsair 850TX |
Software | Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SP1 |
Just my point the performance difference is so little the HD 6970 comes out on top for price/performance.
System Name | Thakk |
---|---|
Processor | i7 6700k @ 4.5Ghz |
Motherboard | Gigabyte G1 Z170N ITX |
Cooling | H55 AIO |
Memory | 32GB DDR4 3100 c16 |
Video Card(s) | Zotac RTX3080 Trinity |
Storage | Corsair Force GT 120GB SSD / Intel 250GB SSD / Samsung Pro 512 SSD / 3TB Seagate SV32 |
Display(s) | Acer Predator X34 100hz IPS Gsync / HTC Vive |
Case | QBX |
Audio Device(s) | Realtek ALC1150 > Creative Gigaworks T40 > AKG Q701 |
Power Supply | Corsair SF600 |
Mouse | Logitech G900 |
Keyboard | Ducky Shine TKL MX Blue + Vortex PBT Doubleshots |
Software | Windows 10 64bit |
Benchmark Scores | http://www.3dmark.com/fs/12108888 |
actually your wrong, tsmc really screwed them up with the cancelation of the 32nm node. this likely cuased some big issues in the design phase. Its not the chip they wanted to build. so likely the dirver development they had done on protoype silicon was trashed and they had to start all over again. Not all designs scale up well.
so i'd wait till january before condeming these cards. But if they maintain there price points or even drop a bit. We get some good price/per and its still a win for amd as they get to find out the various weakness in the new architecture why they finalize the new design for 28nm.
that siad. I am not buying for anything be it intel,amd,nvidia etc at least 2-3 months so I have time to wait.
Processor | Intel i7 4790K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Asus Z97 Deluxe |
Cooling | Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 |
Memory | Corsair Dominator 1866Mhz 4X4GB |
Video Card(s) | Asus R290X |
Storage | Samsung 850 Pro SSD 256GB/Samsung 840 Evo SSD 1TB |
Display(s) | Samsung S23A950D |
Case | Corsair 850D |
Audio Device(s) | Onboard Realtek |
Power Supply | Corsair AX850 |
Mouse | Logitech G502 |
Keyboard | Logitech G710+ |
Software | Windows 10 x64 |
EDIT: Ultimately, if drivers are such a problem, how is it that there's no difference between Cat 10.10 (leaked benches), 10.11 and 10.12? ?
AMD always close the gap with driver improvements more so than Nvidia, the 5870 is much closer to 480 performance now than when it was first released. Went from like 20% to around 7% difference. Same happened with the 4890 ended up almost the same as the 285.
Processor | AMD 3900X \ AMD 7700X |
---|---|
Motherboard | ASRock AM4 X570 Pro 4 \ ASUS X670Xe TUF |
Cooling | D15 |
Memory | Patriot 2x16GB PVS432G320C6K \ G.Skill Flare X5 F5-6000J3238F 2x16GB |
Video Card(s) | eVga GTX1060 SSC \ XFX RX 6950XT RX-695XATBD9 |
Storage | Sammy 860, MX500, Sabrent Rocket 4 Sammy Evo 980 \ 1xSabrent Rocket 4+, Sammy 2x990 Pro |
Display(s) | Samsung 1080P \ LG 43UN700 |
Case | Fractal Design Pop Air 2x140mm fans from Torrent \ Fractal Design Torrent 2 SilverStone FHP141x2 |
Audio Device(s) | Yamaha RX-V677 \ Yamaha CX-830+Yamaha MX-630 \Paradigm 7se MKII, Paradigm 5SE MK1 , Blue Yeti |
Power Supply | Seasonic Prime TX-750 \ Corsair RM1000X Shift |
Mouse | Steelseries Sensei wireless \ Steelseries Sensei wireless |
Keyboard | Logitech K120 \ Wooting Two HE |
Benchmark Scores | Meh benchmarks. |
System Name | i5-750 |
---|---|
Processor | i5 750 |
Motherboard | ASUS P7P55D Deluxe |
Cooling | Arctic Silver Pro Freezer 2 |
Memory | 2 x Corsair 2GB XMS3 DDR3-1333Mhz |
Video Card(s) | EVGA GTX 570 |
Storage | SAMSUNG F3 HD103SJ 1 To |
Display(s) | Samsung Syncmaster PX2370 23" LED Full HD |
Case | Antec Nine hundred Modded |
Power Supply | Corsair HX750 |
Software | Windows 7 Ultimate 64x |
System Name | Thought I'd be done with this by now |
---|---|
Processor | i7 11700k 8/16 |
Motherboard | MSI Z590 Pro Wifi |
Cooling | Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 4, 9x aigo AR12 |
Memory | 32GB GSkill TridentZ Neo DDR4-4000 CL18-22-22-42 |
Video Card(s) | MSI Ventus 2x Geforce RTX 3070 |
Storage | 1TB MX300 M.2 OS + Games, + cloud mostly |
Display(s) | Samsung 40" 4k (TV) |
Case | Lian Li PC-011 Dynamic EVO Black |
Audio Device(s) | onboard HD -> Yamaha 5.1 |
Power Supply | EVGA 850 GQ |
Mouse | Logitech wireless |
Keyboard | same |
VR HMD | nah |
Software | Windows 10 |
Benchmark Scores | no one cares anymore lols |
The pricing of 6900 really sucks, AMD call's the 6950 a "class of it's own", i can't consider that when the the difference is just 30 usd vs the faster GTX 570. I don't see a reason for someone to buy the 6950 really. And i can say the same thing for the 6970 which equals the GTX 570 in 90% of games and being 40 usd more expensive. Also the GTX 570 overclocks higher if someone is looking for GTX 580's performance for free.
The 6900 cards are good but AMD must revise the prices.
Processor | Intel i7 4790K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Asus Z97 Deluxe |
Cooling | Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 |
Memory | Corsair Dominator 1866Mhz 4X4GB |
Video Card(s) | Asus R290X |
Storage | Samsung 850 Pro SSD 256GB/Samsung 840 Evo SSD 1TB |
Display(s) | Samsung S23A950D |
Case | Corsair 850D |
Audio Device(s) | Onboard Realtek |
Power Supply | Corsair AX850 |
Mouse | Logitech G502 |
Keyboard | Logitech G710+ |
Software | Windows 10 x64 |
That is absolutely false, just a myth that originated in the HD2900 days, a placebo to make ati users feel better back then. The myth still survives and is not true at all as has never been true.
Processor | Intel i7 4790K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Asus Z97 Deluxe |
Cooling | Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 |
Memory | Corsair Dominator 1866Mhz 4X4GB |
Video Card(s) | Asus R290X |
Storage | Samsung 850 Pro SSD 256GB/Samsung 840 Evo SSD 1TB |
Display(s) | Samsung S23A950D |
Case | Corsair 850D |
Audio Device(s) | Onboard Realtek |
Power Supply | Corsair AX850 |
Mouse | Logitech G502 |
Keyboard | Logitech G710+ |
Software | Windows 10 x64 |
yeah if the 6970 was 299$ and 6950 239/249$ then we'd have a nice setup. it does seem clear that nv pulled one over on amd and they we're expecting the 5XX series as the 6970 seems to ber targeted at the gtx480.
Thats how they have always done business. They are sneaky scumbags.
Amd(and most other companies) is transparent and provide a roadmaps. Nvidia built their 580 and kept quiet waiting for AMD's new cards so they could rain on their parade.
Those scumbags and their proprietary bullcrap are not gonna get my money.
It matters little to me becuase i hate nvidia's guts and i wouldnt buy one of there GPUs if it was twice as fast as the AMD one.
System Name | Old reliable |
---|---|
Processor | Intel 8700K @ 4.8 GHz |
Motherboard | MSI Z370 Gaming Pro Carbon AC |
Cooling | Custom Water |
Memory | 32 GB Crucial Ballistix 3666 MHz |
Video Card(s) | MSI GTX 1080 Ti Gaming X |
Storage | 3x SSDs 2x HDDs |
Display(s) | Dell U2412M + Samsung TA350 |
Case | Thermaltake Core P3 TG |
Audio Device(s) | Samson Meteor Mic / Generic 2.1 / KRK KNS 6400 headset |
Power Supply | Zalman EBT-1000 |
Mouse | Mionix NAOS 7000 |
Keyboard | Mionix |
Well going by these benchmarks that suits your needs the 480 went from 12% to 10 % faster.
If it wasnt for AMD, Nvidia would be charging a couple of hundred more for their 570/580 like they did in the old days.
AMD will get my money for a 6970 in the next few weeks.
Edit: BTW those benchmarks are with the 10.3, if you remember Wizzard had to redo the benchmarks because of big performance gains on AMD going from 10.2-10.3 driver. So there was a bigger gap than that.
No, actually you are wrong. If you read the Anandtech or many other articles Cayman in the end is pretty much what it would have been, except that it has much less SIMDs. VLIW4 was planned in 2007-2008. ILP (instruction level parallelism) is exactly the same they were expecting 3 years ago, it's only TLP (thread level parallelism) which has not increased. TLP however is irrelevant, since it remains about the same as with Cypress and any TLP optimization improvements made in the last 5 years should help Cayman too. Problem is not drivers, I tell you that. 5%. On average that's all the improvements you're going to see in a single dirver release and most of it will be from game specific code, not architectural optmizations. In a few specific games you'll see up to 20% in some others 0%. Fermi cards will see similar improvements.
I think Baumann is not talking about drivers, but about games. Game developers had not enough time with Cayman and hence they optimized for 4+1 (4 simple+1 complex) execution and that can be troublesome since Cayman can only do 4 simple or 1s+1c. AMD has clearly stated that complex operations are very few and afar, but I think they maight have understimated them:
You know, in GF104 the first thing that Nvidia did when they increased shader count per SM to 48 SP, was no other thing than doubling the number of special function units. The graphics world is ruled by 2 companies, and you have to think both know what they're doing, so if one says or thinks special function operations are meaningless and the other one obviously thinks the opposite, truth must be somewhere in the middle, which means that is not as critical as Nvidia thinks, but neither is as meaningless as AMD thinks. In the chunks of code that were optimized for 4+1 execution Cayman is half as slow as Cypress and no driver will fix that. I think that AMD understimated the ammount of time that happens or the effect of the latency that this might introduce in the rest of the pipeline no matter how scarce they are. Drivers again will no fix this magically. Newer games coming up in the future (which I hope will finally depart from consoles) will be better suited to Cayman, then again they will be much better suited for Fermi too. As it stands now, both Cayman and Fermi are "severely" crippled by software development, while Evergreen is not because it's the same architecture as 5 years ago.
EDIT: Ultimately, if drivers are such a problem, how is it that there's no difference between Cat 10.10 (leaked benches), 10.11 and 10.12? If drivers were such a problem you would see a fair increase with every driver and there's none. What's the explanation? AMD has been optimizing since before 10.10, but has yet to include the optimizations? They didn't include any of those optimizations on the launch drivers boxed with the retail cards? Not even in the drivers sent to reviewers? Not even yet on Cat 10.12 which is the next driver release after the launch of Cayman? If that's the case, how stupìd that is?
also the vliw4 arch doesn't work like your implying either.
Oh it does.
Anandtech is a very realiable source.
As mentioned earlier, AMD brought about a radical change in the stream processor design. Compared to the older VLIW5 design in which an SIMD core consisted of four simple and one complex stream processors with some common resources, the new design, dubbed VLIW4, combines four equally-capable complex stream processors, with two of the four getting special functions. Overall, with a stream processor count of 1536, the Radeon HD 6970 clocked at 880 MHz, is able to churn out a single-precision floating point (IEEE754-SP) performance of 2.7 TFLOPs, and double-precision performance (IEEE754-DP) of 675 GFLOPs. The VLIW4 architecture, hence is aimed to increase performance per mm² of die-area. The render back-ends, have also been redesigned to facilitate 2 times faster 16-bit integer and 32-bit floating-point operations.
anandtech is a reliable for source for pro-intel and pro-nvidia reviews. always has been. They have always viewed ATI and AMD as second class citizens. Largely becuase 90% of the benchamrk software they used has flawed code.
but I am not going to get into this today, your simply not worth my time or effort.
BTW no it doesn't. they widened 2 of the lanes and removed the fith.
Its in the AMD investor day slides along with the archtectural breifings.
they have driver issues and maybe some unintened design consequences. We might see a mid cycle refresh to adress some of those issues. Also looking at power consumption they might not be happy with the chips themselves and they might not be performing up to expectations. a respins might fix those issues if they exist.
I am pretty much done with your trolling. The cards are priced relative to the performance they deliver.
I will most likely pass these cards up and wait for the next generation.I just have no need for more performance then my current card delivers.
Good to see your obvious lack of objectivity.
System Name | My pc |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 5 3600 |
Motherboard | Asus Rog b450-f |
Cooling | Cooler master 120mm aio |
Memory | 16gb ddr4 3200mhz |
Video Card(s) | MSI Ventus 3x 3070 |
Storage | 2tb intel nvme and 2tb generic ssd |
Display(s) | Generic dell 1080p overclocked to 75hz |
Case | Phanteks enthoo |
Power Supply | 650w of borderline fire hazard |
Mouse | Some wierd Chinese vertical mouse |
Keyboard | Generic mechanical keyboard |
Software | Windows ten |
Drivers would improve it but not leaps imo.. what should change are the applications that utilizes the card so it can achieve full potential.. closely working with devs.. in which from what ive seen ever since, ati is kind of not very rabid in terms of driving that initiative.. hence we have a gun without bullets. Too good a hardware, but really needs more push on the software side.
Processor | Intel i7 4790K |
---|---|
Motherboard | Asus Z97 Deluxe |
Cooling | Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 |
Memory | Corsair Dominator 1866Mhz 4X4GB |
Video Card(s) | Asus R290X |
Storage | Samsung 850 Pro SSD 256GB/Samsung 840 Evo SSD 1TB |
Display(s) | Samsung S23A950D |
Case | Corsair 850D |
Audio Device(s) | Onboard Realtek |
Power Supply | Corsair AX850 |
Mouse | Logitech G502 |
Keyboard | Logitech G710+ |
Software | Windows 10 x64 |
It's funny because AMD never lowered the prices of HD58xx cards and they were overpriced since the beginning. And now AMD is trying to sell the HD6970 for $50 more than its direct competitor the GTX570. lol both companies price their cards as high as they can and try to get away with it.
..
Enjoy your overpriced card.
.
You are wrong about the architecture* and you are wrong about Anadtech. I suggest you read:
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT121410213827
* The slides don't say everything and the 2+2 thing is a complete misconception. All 4 SPs are identical and 3 out of the 4 together can do complex operations and trascendentals, leaving one free SP capable of performing one simple operation. Some people think that it's 2+2 because of how the slide was represented when the only thing that it says is which instructions the shaders can perform, on the left column they listed the floating point capabilities (including tracendentals, obviously), on the right the integer ones. People thought that the 2 SPs on the left perform FP and the ones on the right perform int operations.
EDIT: Pff what the hell, it says it all on the slide...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/images/slide3.jpg
System Name | MY PC |
---|---|
Processor | E8400 @ 3.80Ghz > Q9650 3.60Ghz |
Motherboard | Maximus Formula |
Cooling | D5, 7/16" ID Tubing, Maze4 with Fuzion CPU WB |
Memory | XMS 8500C5D @ 1066MHz |
Video Card(s) | HD 2900 XT 858/900 to 4870 to 5870 (Keep Vreg area clean) |
Storage | 2 |
Display(s) | 24" |
Case | P180 |
Audio Device(s) | X-fi Plantinum |
Power Supply | Silencer 750 |
Software | XP Pro SP3 to Windows 7 |
Benchmark Scores | This varies from one driver to another. |
I was thinking the same thing. It might be another x1800 to x1900 or 2900 to 3800. But that might depend on how soon TSMC can get their act together. If TSMC isn't ready until mid to late 2012 as predicted then I believe we might see a gpu refresh next year.s. We might see a mid cycle refresh to adress some of those issues. Also looking at power consumption they might not be happy with the chips themselves and they might not be performing up to expectations. a respins might fix those issues if they exist.
I am pretty much done with your trolling. The cards are priced relative to the performance they deliver.
I will most likely pass these cards up and wait for the next generation.I just have no need for more performance then my current card delivers.
Good to see your obvious lack of objectivity.
System Name | My pc |
---|---|
Processor | Ryzen 5 3600 |
Motherboard | Asus Rog b450-f |
Cooling | Cooler master 120mm aio |
Memory | 16gb ddr4 3200mhz |
Video Card(s) | MSI Ventus 3x 3070 |
Storage | 2tb intel nvme and 2tb generic ssd |
Display(s) | Generic dell 1080p overclocked to 75hz |
Case | Phanteks enthoo |
Power Supply | 650w of borderline fire hazard |
Mouse | Some wierd Chinese vertical mouse |
Keyboard | Generic mechanical keyboard |
Software | Windows ten |
.
AMD wins the most important benchmark of this generation
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/Radeon_HD_6970/31.html