PSU's..Are we going overboard?

[JrRacinFan]

Just wanted to mention, most power supplies are most efficient at close to half the power draw. Another reason why to get a high powered supply(650W for example) when there is only a need for a 400W'er.

 

[n-ster]

Getting a higher rated PSU than you need is good to be able to keep it for longer and give you room to wiggle when you want to upgrade

Also, a HUGE factor I»MO is that a good PSU gives cleaner power to your key components, which elongates their lives, and most importantly for most TPUers, GIVES BETTER OVERCLOCKING RESULTS! People often forget the big role of a PSU in overclocking... Sure temperature, «CPU or GPU and motherboard all effect it the most, but the PSU is not far behind

 

[heky]

My case is white so I was going to go with this PSU. What do you think of it?


NZXT HALE90-750-M 750W ATX 12V v2.2, EPS 12V v2.91...

The NZXT Hale90 is a very good PSU. The OEM is SuperFlower, its the company that made the first Platinum rated PSU. Go for the Hale90, you wont be dissapointed.

 

[Nesters]

Two years because technology moves so fast it will be average to below average compared to what is the norm for the average new computer.

i7 920 is still rockin' and it will for couple years, so will 2600k.

 

[gumpty]

i7 920 is still rockin' and it will for couple years, so will 2600k.

Not to mention that the TDP of top-of-the-range CPUs has remained static for a few years now, and it's unlikely to go up. Similarly with GPUs, beastly dual GPU cards aside, power efficiency in GPUs has got better in recent years - and will continue that way. So the only real future-factor you need to account for when buying a new PSU is whether you might add a second GPU in the future, nothing else will increase your power supply needs by any margin.

 

[brandonwh64]

I know you would like to put faith in lower end cheaper PSU's but its all about piece of mind and the reviews of some of these monsters. Its like when people have OCZ psu's, some are good and last forever and some blow everything hooked to it. I would rather pay a little more and get a PSU that will last longer and is built well than one that was thrown together and barely tested.

Brands like Xion, chieftec, OCZ, diablotek, and many more bottom of the barrel PSUs is what i tend to stay away from.

Ive had great luck with pc and power cooling, antec, corsair, enermax ,and surprisingly the brand Ultra.

 

[JrRacinFan]

In continuation to your post brandon:
@OP

If you need budget-minded supplies, look into ePower/Topower & FSP supplies.

 

[n-ster]

remembeer that budget PSUs go with budget PCs however

 

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Here is what I do

When I'm serious about not having any problems I go with Antec. I have the 850 watt and 1000 watt versions of the Truepower series. They also have racing stripes so they look cool.

Now for second tier builds I have tried Rosewill and have had no problems at all. In fact Rosewill seems to be a good brand for me as I've tried a couple of cases and even got a 4 pack of 120mm fans for just $10 at Newegg. I'm powering my I7 rig in my system specs with a Rosewill.

I've also tried HEC Compucase and so far the $50 or so the 600 watt supply has not given me a problem powering a rig with a factory overclocked GTX 460 768 and a triple core Phenom 8750. I even have 3 hard drives in there. Since it is not my main rig I don't worry but as I said before if you really want to be sure go with something like I got from Antec that has a proven track record. And what the othey guys said is a good way to choose wattage. Just double the power consumption of the rig you are setting up and there you have the best choice for power needed in a power supply.

 

[brandonwh64]

I like how people look for watts instead of amperage. like this.. "OH! i can get 700W for 29.99!!" then they do not look at the +12V and its like 24A LOL

This PSU market reminds me of how when i was into car audio systems. You could get a pyramid AMP that "SUPPOSE" to have 1200W and really only push out 500W Peak and very low Amp ratings.

Buy a PSU that is proven to work well. as N-ster said, budget PSUs will be fine if your running a budget PC with onboard video and a LOW level CPU for say maybe a HTPC. If you install a 6950 in it and think its going to last.... think again.

 

[imperialreign]

Cheap can be anything questionable, lower price, or from a brand that's never been heard of or has an established reputation, yet.

With that in mind, there's only a handful of companies that actually manufacture PSUs for everyone else - sometimes with a reference design, sometimes to one of their buyer's specifications. Buyers that want higher quality (because they back the unit with better warranties) usually demand better internal components, even if they're using a refernce design for a specific output. This is easy to see, if you were to take an Antec and an OCZ 650W unit apart (alothough identicle on the outside), the internals will be different.

As well, a more powerful unit gives you more headroom, and leaves the PSU not having to work so hard to power the system - which drastically extends the units life. If it's only operating at 70% load, it'll last longer than if it's running at 90%. As well, should you decide to overclock, you have headroom available . . . and should a component start to fail and pull more power than it needs, it won't overload the PSU (in most cases). If the unit is running much harder load, it will heat up - which increases both case temperatures (drastically) and can lead to overheating the PSU.

Sure, for example, for the vast majority of systems a 1kW+ unit is simply overkill - but if you're running a quad, DDR3, two or more GPUs, numerous SATA drives, etc. even under ful system load you should still be within the 80% PSU load range (depending). Which is good, both for the unit, and the system . . . everything continues to recieves a constant supply from the unit.

Also of note - most of the truly reliable, high-quality PSUs can take a hell of a hit from the wal outlet, without necessarily taking SYS components with them. Internal protection measures will lead these PSUs to "sacrifice" themselves to save the system.

Either way, do your research between whatever units you're considering - figure out who manufactures them, and if any other brands have had issues with similar models.

 

[EarthDog]

Oh yes, people have been going overboard, without a doubt. Part of this phenomenon is b/c of mfg saying 'reccomends 650W' PSU. BUT, its not their fault. Plenty of people buy shit PSU's so mfg have to account for that and reccomend more than most people need. And part of this is frankly from people that dont know and talk like they do.

Hell, I ran a 4.2Ghz i7 920 w/HT and a GTX 470 pushing 900/1800, and barely broke 400W AT THE WALL (%80 efficient PSU, you do the math) with FURMARK and P95 running at the same time.

 

[EarthDog]

When I'm serious about not having any problems I go with Antec. I have the 850 watt and 1000 watt versions of the Truepower series. They also have racing stripes so they look cool.

Now for second tier builds I have tried Rosewill and have had no problems at all. In fact Rosewill seems to be a good brand for me as I've tried a couple of cases and even got a 4 pack of 120mm fans for just $10 at Newegg. I'm powering my I7 rig in my system specs with a Rosewill.

I've also tried HEC Compucase and so far the $50 or so the 600 watt supply has not given me a problem powering a rig with a factory overclocked GTX 460 768 and a triple core Phenom 8750. I even have 3 hard drives in there. Since it is not my main rig I don't worry but as I said before if you really want to be sure go with something like I got from Antec that has a proven track record. And what the othey guys said is a good way to choose wattage. Just double the power consumption of the rig you are setting up and there you have the best choice for power needed in a power supply.

There are only a few Rosewill PSU's that are worth their cheap price. SOunds like you have been more lucky than anything.

Antec, like most brands, have some subpar PSU's as well, so beware.

The last part of your post is part of the problem. DOUBLING your power you need makes you spend uneccessary money for those never planning on going Crossfire/SLI. HDD's and fans are nothing. A good rule is to run it around 70-80% capacity as that tends to be a sweetspot for efficiency.

 

[n-ster]

«i like having a 30% wiggle room. If it needs 500W, a 650W PSU should be fine. I usually go for 50-65% though

 

[newtekie1]

Possibly, but I have never had that happen to me with the 20 or so computers I have used in my life.

I just had an Antec PSU pop on me the other week, killed every single thing connected to the 12v line, the motherboard, hard drive, DVD Drives, CPU, it even killed the Fans and the damn floppy! It literally killed every single component in the system except on lonely 80mm fan that was connected to a motherboard header, and that was likely only saved by the fact that the motherboard died first...

You don't have to spend huge amounts of money to get a quality unit, as others have already said. Usually once you are getting into the $150 range you are paying for extras such as modular connectors, or better warranties.

If you are looking in the 700w range, I wouldn't trust a $50 PSU, but I also wouldn't think $150 is necessary. If you are looking at $50 700w units, then you are probably going to get something that is overrated(and likely rated at peak load not continous) that will never be able to reliably give you 700w of power. But there are definitely some decent 700w units in the $75 range I would consider.

 

[cadaveca]

I have my own elitist views on what PSU power is required.


Single high-end VGA, quality 650W, minimum.

Dual High-end VGA, quality 850W, minimum.

Triple high-end VGA or dual dual-gpu cards, 1200W minimum.

I don't care about CPU TDP, to compare for PSU requirements. If you are running stock, fine, but once overclocked, board VRM power draw is greatly varied; I've seen differences of 40W from that alone, nevermind that variances in what a CPU will draw at any given clock.

I assume that the majority of people that post on here are gooing to OC at least a bit, so my recommendations should have even the most extreme, fully watercooled systems covered.

When it comes to cost, I look at the price of toher components...spend $200 avg on a other parts(CPU/BOARD/VGA), then you should look at spending the same amount on your PSU. PSU is the one place where compromises must NEVER ever be made.

 

[Bo$$]

I have my own elitist views on what PSU power is required.


Single high-end VGA, quality 650W, minimum.

Dual High-end VGA, quality 850W, minimum.

Triple high-end VGA or dual dual-gpu cards, 1200W minimum.

I don't care about CPU TDP, to compare for PSU requirements. If you are running stock, fine, but once overclocked, board VRM power draw is greatly varied; I've seen differences of 40W from that alone, nevermind that variances in what a CPU will draw at any given clock.

I assume that the majority of people that post on here are gooing to OC at least a bit, so my recommendations should have even the most extreme, fully watercooled systems covered.

When it comes to cost, I look at the price of toher components...spend $200 avg on a other parts(CPU/BOARD/VGA), then you should look at spending the same amount on your PSU. PSU is the one place where compromises must NEVER ever be made.

Single high-end VGA, quality 450W, minimum.

Dual High-end VGA, quality 750W, minimum.

Triple VGA or dual dual-gpu cards, quality 1050W minimum.

quality means, Enermax, Corsair, PCP&C and ThermalTake.

I feel you are slightly overating the PSU requirements, your are more likely recommended rather than bare minimum for those setups. But i generally do agree quality is key. I have seen someone run WC with a GTX480 + i7 on a 450W PSU, but then again that was an enermax

 

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Better Safe Than Sorry

There are only a few Rosewill PSU's that are worth their cheap price. SOunds like you have been more lucky than anything.

Antec, like most brands, have some subpar PSU's as well, so beware.

The last part of your post is part of the problem. DOUBLING your power you need makes you spend uneccessary money for those never planning on going Crossfire/SLI. HDD's and fans are nothing. A good rule is to run it around 70-80% capacity as that tends to be a sweetspot for efficiency.

The prices of decent 600 watt power supplies are so low that I don't think we should ever consider anything less than 500 watts with decent current/amps that actually can take advantage of the rated watts especially if you are going to game with a decent video card that needs at least two six pin connections. Even with a video card that only needs one you have the chance to upgrade later to a more powerful video card. I'm on my multimedia PC with an Antec 500 watt power supply that is driving a triple core Phenom 8750 and a GTX 460 768 like my other multimedia rig. Why cheap out on the power supply?

FYI, a lot of power supplies are rated at max wattage and not continuous so doubling the expected power draw based on the rated output is actually closer to that 66% usage; that is if they actually have the current to provide the watts. Anyway....

 

[cadaveca]

Single high-end VGA, quality 450W, minimum.

ATI says your recommendations are too low. I agree, that a good 400W should be enough, but AMD recommends a 500W for 6950, and 550W for 6970, so when it comes time to get some support from them, your PSU recommendation already eliminates the possibility of getting any support from AMD...they'll look at PSU and tell you "UPGRADE!".

Dual High-end VGA, quality 750W, minimum.

Nope. I tried Silverstone strider GOLD 750W(now used in my reviewing rig), it couldn't keep up with my 6950's and Sandybridge with watercooling and an OC. The Corsair TX850W failed too.

Triple VGA or dual dual-gpu cards, quality 1050W minimum.

Still not enough. take triple 6970's, @ over 275w a peice, and you've left only 225W for the rest of the system, CPU ,memory, HDD's fans, all inclusive.

quality means, Enermax, Corsair, PCP&C and ThermalTake.

I feel you are slightly overating the PSU requirements, your are more likely recommended rather than bare minimum for those setups. But i generally do agree quality is key. I have seen someone run WC with a GTX480 + i7 on a 450W PSU, but then again that was an enermax

Enermax does not make quality products, in my books. I've had too many failures and revised products after release to give enermax any attention. This may have changed recently, but since the Galaxy unit's and thier horrible modular interface with "hand-soldered" parts, I will never recommend Enermax. Any product that requires mods after manufacture, in order to operate properly...no thanks.


And yes, I am stating higher than needed, but that the same time, I build computers for people, and once they pay me, I'd rather not see them again because thier PSU wasn't enough 2 years down the road. I know many won't agree with my recommendations, as I've gone through this before, but at the same time, I play with far more parts than anyone else, except a few others here, so I do feel that I have a far better perspective on what's required than most.

 

[newtekie1]

ATI says you r recommendations are too low. I agree, that a good 400W should be enough, but AMD recommends a 500W for 6950, and 550W for 6970, so wwhen it comes time to get some support from them, your PSU recommendation already eliminates the possibility of getting any support from AMD...they'll look at PSU and tell you "UPGRADE!".

My main rig to the left uses well over 500w when fully loaded, so I agree that a 450w isn't enough. I'd say 600w minimum.

 

[imperialreign]

Single high-end VGA, quality 450W, minimum.

Dual High-end VGA, quality 750W, minimum.

Triple VGA or dual dual-gpu cards, quality 1050W minimum.

quality means, Enermax, Corsair, PCP&C and ThermalTake.

I feel you are slightly overating the PSU requirements, your are more likely recommended rather than bare minimum for those setups. But i generally do agree quality is key. I have seen someone run WC with a GTX480 + i7 on a 450W PSU, but then again that was an enermax

I think that's the big thing everyone is trying to stress - quality.

Don't be afraid to take chances with a brand you've never heard of, especially if they're new to the market - just make sure there's outstanding/favorable reviews out there for their units before you commit. New brands to the market are going to be doing their all to build and solidify their reputation . . . big reason why I went with Kingwin on my last two builds (and 800W and 1200W), fairly new to the market, and aftermarket reviews ("punishments") were outstanding. Decent price for their individual market segments (slightly higher for the warranty, 80+ cert, modularity, connector style, etc.) - but I've yet to have a single hiccup with either of them. Solid, reliable units, and I'm more than happy with my purchases.

And yes, I am stating higher than needed, but that the same time, I build computers for people, and once they pay me, I'd rather not see them again because thier PSU wasn't enough 2 years down the road. I know many won't agree with my recommendations, as I've gone through this before, but at the same time, I play with far more parts than anyone else, except a few others here, so I do feel that I have a far better perspective on what's required than most.

. . . and something else worth pointing - components degrade over time, too. Simply because a unit is rated for 600W now doesn't mean that's what it can handle two years from now. Just another point to keep in mind.

 

[cadaveca]

Just wanted to mention, most power supplies are most efficient at close to half the power draw. Another reason why to get a high powered supply(650W for example) when there is only a need for a 400W'er.

80+ ratings are @ 20%, 50%, and 100% load. If a PSU is 80+ rated, it meets whatever level of rating for those three load scenarios is true...if it's 80PLUS GOLD(87%), then it will meet those efficiency numbers at 20%, 50%, and 100%.

http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx

Click the blue line "What is an 80 PLUS certified power supply?"

. . . and something else worth pointing - components degrade over time, too. Simply because a unit is rated for 600W now doesn't mean that's what it can handle two years from now. Just another point to keep in mind.

Uh, yeah, that WAS my point.

 

[JrRacinFan]

80+ ratings are @ 20%, 50%, and 100% load. If a PSU is 80+ rated, it meets whatever level of rating for those three load scenarios is true...if it's 80PLUS GOLD(87%), then it will meet those efficiency numbers at 20%, 50%, and 100%.

http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx

Click the blue line "What is an 80 PLUS certified power supply?"




Uh, yeah, that WAS my point.

That's what I was referring to but missed a point for 80+ efficiency. Was unaware of the 20% numbers. Thanks man!

 

[newtekie1]

I think that's the big thing everyone is trying to stress - quality.

Quality isn't going to matter if you are pulling 500+w from a 450w PSU, the only difference quality will make is that the OCP will actually work and shut the unit down before anything is damaged, but it is still going to shutdown.

But, yes, I agree quality is the most important thing, and quality often comes at a higher price.

80+ ratings are @ 20%, 50%, and 100% load. If a PSU is 80+ rated, it meets whatever level of rating for those three load scenarios is true...if it's 80PLUS GOLD(87%), then it will meet those efficiency numbers at 20%, 50%, and 100%.

http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx

Click the blue line "What is an 80 PLUS certified power supply?"

But a Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum rated PSU required higher efficiencies at 50% than at 20 and 100.

 

[cadaveca]

But a Bronze, Silver, Gold, or Platinum rated PSU required higher efficiencies at 50% than at 20 and 100.

Yes, of course. However, many systems won't see that sort of load during the majority of thier "ON" lifetime, so to me, the 20% numbers are the most important. That alone is why I personally won't buy anything less than a "GOLD" rated PSU, and have been recommending such.

All these examples of systems pulling only 450-500W, or even less, are most often extreme loading scenarios. So, yeah, the 50% number is important too, for sure, but I don't think looking at just that one figure really considers all situations.

For example, crunchers...they are going to have different PSU needs, IMHO, when compared to a gamer. If that cruncher also happens to be using thier GPUs as well?...you know, all these things must be considered.

Alot of users though, don't crunch, spend alot of time surfing, some time gaming, others only game, very little web use...that widely varied power consumption can't be considered every single time, by every PSU out there, so how do you cover all scenarios?

I made my choice. Like I said, it's elitist, but oh well.