Radeon extremely low market share, only 8% in Q3 2022?

[fevgatos]

OK. So that is why people prefer avoiding the adapter. I didn't make it up. Others did. Apparently you know better, and would allow that fire hazard in the house. Good on you.

People dont prefer the adapter cause its an insane clutter mess of cables. Its not a fire hazard cause it didn't cause any fires.

And yes, ive used the adapter while I was waiting for my cablemod 16pin cable. And after I received the cablemod, i was too bored to swap cables, so i kept the adapter for an extra month. No fires and nothing burned.

Isnt the truth that the issue was caused specifically by users not plugging it properly? Why are we even discussing something that's been proven already?

 

[Vayra86]

People dont prefer the adapter cause its an insane clutter mess of cables. Its not a fire hazard cause it didn't cause any fires.

And yes, ive used the adapter while I was waiting for my cablemod 16pin cable. And after I received the cablemod, i was too bored to swap cables, so i kept the adapter for an extra month. No fires and nothing burned.

Isnt the truth that the issue was caused specifically by users not plugging it properly? Why are we even discussing something that's been proven already?

The truth is that the size of the GPU and the cable weight OR the space in a case would create a very easy-to-get-plugged out situation. Are users not plugging it in properly... sure! Is the cable more liable to not remain plugged in properly due to wire bend/stress? Certainly. Why are we discussing it? Because they're design oversights/misfires related to the launch of products.

 

[the54thvoid]

Neutral viewpoint incoming:

Is the damage being caused by user error? Yes
Is the pin difficult to connect? Yes (even Fevgatos said as much)
Would this occur if the pin was easier to connect? Probably not.

So, from a design POV, the fact the connector is very hard to connect (requires a fair bit of force, according to GN), then it is a QC issue. Any item intended for consumer use that is to be handled by said consumer requires a well-thought out product design. If any of you carry out Risk Assessments, you'll know what I mean --> What is the likelihood of something bad happening because of this design? If likely, then redesign if the cost or PR will be detrimental to the product's reputation.

On the Radeon flipside, the coolers are not handled by the end user and as such, that is solely the responsible of AMD (it is they who must hold full culpability for the few wonky vapor chambers).

Really, it's that bloody simple. One is a bad design, the other is faulty.

I think, given the two extreme choices, the bad design (which can be overcome by proper use) is the lesser evil.

 

[fevgatos]

The truth is that the size of the GPU and the cable weight OR the space in a case would create a very easy-to-get-plugged out situation. Are users not plugging it in properly... sure! Is the cable more liable to not remain plugged in properly due to wire bend/stress? Certainly. Why are we discussing it? Because they're design oversights/misfires related to the launch of products.

But that has nothing to do with the nvidia adapter, the exact same applies to 3rd party adapters as well. Nvidia didnt make the 16pin specs.

Neutral viewpoint incoming:

Is the damage being caused by user error? Yes
Is the pin difficult to connect? Yes (even Fevgatos said as much)
Would this occur if the pin was easier to connect? Probably not.

So, from a design POV, the fact the connector is very hard to connect (requires a fair bit of force, according to GN), then it is a QC issue. Any item intended for consumer use that is to be handled by said consumer requires a well-thought out product design. If any of you carry out Risk Assessments, you'll know what I mean --> What is the likelihood of something bad happening because of this design? If likely, then redesign if the cost or PR will be detrimental to the product's reputation.

On the Radeon flipside, the coolers are not handled by the end user and as such, that is solely the responsible of AMD (it is they who must hold full culpability for the few wonky vapor chambers).

Really, it's that bloody simple. One is a bad design, the other is faulty.

I think, given the two extreme choices, the bad design (which can be overcome by proper use) is the lesser evil.

Again, yes they are harder to plug, but that applies to every 16pin plug, not just nvidias adapter. If you think being hard to plug is a problem, then the fault lies with the pcie sig, not with nvidia. They didn't design the plug, pcie sig did.

There is absolutely nothing that nvidia did wrong here

 

[Assimilator]

My 2c on the 16-pin connector is that the connector itself is not the problem, the NVIDIA-supplied PCIe-to-16-pin adapter cable is. It was either one of the GN videos on the fire issue, or a PSU review here, where it was mentioned that native 16-pin PSU cables are significantly easier to seat than the NVIDIA adapter. I believe that QC around connector mating tolerances was poor for the NVIDIA adapter and that is what led to it being difficult to plug in, which led to the fires. Hence why NVIDIA was willing to exchange affected cards without question.

I personally still believe that while the adapter design was poor, it was not inherently flawed or dangerous. Making sure an electrical connector is mated properly to its receptacle is a basic life skill, regardless of how difficult it is to mate the two. It takes literally a second to pull on both ends to ensure that the connector is properly mated, which is something you should do with every electrical connection, and I'm willing to bet money that the NVIDIA adapter users who experienced fires didn't carry out this simple but critically important check.

However a number of people seem to be assuming that whenever someone mentions the 16-pin connector, that person is implicitly talking about the adapter, which is most certainly not the case. There is no indication that the 16-pin connector is a flawed or faulty or dangerous design in any way and I'm getting sick of seeing the connector conflated with the adapter.

Now can we please stop talking about this and get back to the thread topic.

 

[Vayra86]

But that has nothing to do with the nvidia adapter, the exact same applies to 3rd party adapters as well. Nvidia didnt make the 16pin specs.


Again, yes they are harder to plug, but that applies to every 16pin plug, not just nvidias adapter. If you think being hard to plug is a problem, then the fault lies with the pcie sig, not with nvidia. They didn't design the plug, pcie sig did.

There is absolutely nothing that nvidia did wrong here

Don't get me wrong, I do and can follow part of the rationale here. Not the entirety of it. I think @the54thvoid put it quite well.

 

[80-watt Hamster]

For the average consumer though, they know as much about the difference between GeForce and Radeon as they so about GE and Whirlpool. If one brand served them well, they stick with it. That's how people are, no matter how much you want it to be untrue.

Then please explain how is AMD outselling intel in the CPU space.....

The entire CPU space? Are you sure about that? DIY space I'll believe, but you're going to need to support your assertion as stated. I'm also not certain what AMD v. Intel has to do with Arrows assertion about the average consumer. They may know that GeForce = graphics, and that's about it.

 

[claes]

Yeah Intel vastly outsells AMD it’s not even a competition

 

[Avro Arrow]

Well it looks like the narrative is not working for Nvidia. I just went to pickup some coolant and tech had to get the key to access it from the cabinet. While I was waiting I was looking at the GPU section. There were exactly 2 GPUs available....for AMD. The 7900XT for $1249 and the 6500XT for $259. Meanwhile there were 3060s for the lowest $519, 4080s for 1900 and 4070TIs for 1600+, I even saw a 4090 for $2500. The thing is I counted at least 25 cards and every brand including Zotac was available from Nvidia. It would seem that contrary to the narrative that Nvidia are pricing themselves out of the Market.

Umm, how? If all of those nVidia cards are in stock, it means that nobody has purchased them. If I see lots of nVidia cards in stock but few Radeons, that tells me people have bought up the Radeon cards and the GeForce cards are collecting dust. I think that supports the narrative that nVidia is pricing themselves out of the market quite well.

Even Intel cards were plentiful as well but that is understandable. The Arc 770 is $389 for 16GB or DDR6. I am going to go back on Thursday to see if that situation changed. Once again when I went to check out there were 6750XTs and 6600s waiting for Customer pickup and one lonely 3060.

Yeah, that's one thing that I REALLY don't understand. The RTX 3060 costs about $20 more than the RX 6700 and its performance is worse than the old RX 5700 XT which makes it essentially useless for RT, streaming and professional applications using CUDA. I really do not get how someone could think that buying one of those is a good idea.

 

[Vya Domus]

My 2c on the 16-pin connector is that the connector itself is not the problem, the NVIDIA-supplied PCIe-to-16-pin adapter cable is.

The real problem is that they tried (and still do) to push a connector that nobody cared about or asked for. They should have given up on that after 3000 series, but they didn't, because they're Nvidia and they never go back on what was otherwise clearly an idiotic move.

 

[Avro Arrow]

The entire CPU space? Are you sure about that? DIY space I'll believe, but you're going to need to support your assertion as stated. I'm also not certain what AMD v. Intel has to do with Arrows assertion about the average consumer. They may know that GeForce = graphics, and that's about it.

Yep, I think that you summed it up perfectly right there. Back when AMD took away the ATi branding, I said that it was a BIG mistake because the ATi name was well-known, well-respected and had been around since the 1980s. I ran into a woman at a Canada Computers location who thought that the Radeon cards were only for AMD-based PCs. She was lucky I was there because I told her "It makes no difference what CPU you have. It says AMD on the box because AMD makes video cards." which surprised her. I told her that I worked for Tiger Direct and that Intel and nVidia have nothing to do with each other. It really blows my mind how people get insane ideas like this and use them as a guide.

 

[kapone32]

Umm, how? If all of those nVidia cards are in stock, it means that nobody has purchased them. If I see lots of nVidia cards in stock but few Radeons, that tells me people have bought up the Radeon cards and the GeForce cards are collecting dust. I think that supports the narrative that nVidia is pricing themselves out of the market quite well.

I am talking about the narrative that exists on social media that Nvidia is in every way better than Nvidia and therefore worth extra investment. Just wait for it and someone will repsond to this about Ray Tracing and DLSS being worth it.

 

[Avro Arrow]

its all because they stopped supporting AMD™ Crossfire™ technology.
if it was still used and the games supported it they would have doubled there profits.
2x AMD™ Radeon RX7900xt's compare to a Nvidia™ RTX 4090?

but mostly its gotta be the ridiculous prices

Yeah but Crossfire was just ATi's answer to SLI so the same could be said about GeForce cards.

 

[kapone32]

I am talking about the narrative that exists on social media that Nvidia is in every way better than Nvidia and therefore worth extra investment. Just wait for it and someone will repsond to this about Ray Tracing and DLSS being worth it.

Sorry I meant AMD

 

[ThrashZone]

I am talking about the narrative that exists on social media that Nvidia is in every way better than Nvidia "AMD" and therefore worth extra investment. Just wait for it and someone will repsond to this about Ray Tracing and DLSS being worth it.

Hi,
Let me fix that for you buddy

 

[Vya Domus]

It really blows my mind how people get insane ideas like this and use them as a guide.

I had a computer science professor in college that never wanted to use AMD CPUs again, his reasoning was that he once installed an AMD CPU I don't know how many years ago and forgot to remove the plastic film on the cooler and it overheated and that later he bought an Intel CPU where he also forgot to remove the plastic film and that one didn't overheat. So in his mind the Intel CPUs were somehow better.

I repeat, this was a computer science professor, and yes, he was dumb enough to forget to remove the plastic film from the cooler not once but twice. All kinds of idiots roam around the earth.

 

[kapone32]

I had a computer science professor in college that never wanted to use AMD CPUs again, his reasoning was that he once installed an AMD CPU and forgot to remove the plastic film on the cooler and it overheated and that later he bought an Intel CPU where he also forgot to remove the plastic film and that one didn't overheat. So in his mind the Intel CPUs were somehow better.

I repeat, this was a computer science professor, and yes, he was dumb enough to forget to remove the plastic film from the cooler not once but twice. All kinds of idiots roam around the earth.

I remember when Tiger Direct shut down I needed to find somewhere new to see new Tech. At the new location I befriended one of the employees. I remember asking him one day why AMD moved so slow in CPU sales? He told me that Intel had a program where they would reward the employees on the floor by giving them deep discounts on processors based on number sold. In some cases the whole store would get a new CPU when a new Gen launched too. It is everywhere and thankfully Germany is not in America so that stigma never stuck and drove Ryzen to the top of DIY. However the fact that MSI did not showcase one AMD laptop at CES speaks volumes.

 

[fevgatos]

I am talking about the narrative that exists on social media that Nvidia is in every way better than Nvidia and therefore worth extra investment. Just wait for it and someone will repsond to this about Ray Tracing and DLSS being worth it.

You don't think that nvidia makes better products than AMD? LOL man....

I don't know about RT but DLSS is one of the best things thaht ever happened to PC gaming

 

[kapone32]

You don't think that nvidia makes better products than AMD? LOL man....

I don't know about RT but DLSS is one of the best things thaht ever happened to PC gaming

Thank You

 

[Assimilator]

The real problem is that they tried (and still do) to push a connector that nobody cared about or asked for. They should have given up on that after 3000 series, but they didn't, because they're Nvidia and they never go back on what was otherwise clearly an idiotic move.

"nobody cared about or asked for", what nonsense. Anyone who has forgotten to plug in one of the 6- or 8-pin PCIe connectors on a GPU that has more than one, has cursed the fact that more than one is required. Anyone who has had to route multiple 6- or 8-pin PCIe cables, especially when trying to get a clean-looking case, has cursed the fact that more than one is required. I can give more examples of this problem, and how the single 16-pin connector solves it.

The fact that PCI-SIG standardised on this connector also means that industry wants it, which is hugely important.

Instead of blaming NVIDIA for doing something innovative, and championing and owning it, how about you blame AMD for failing to step up to the plate and adopt a new standard that objectively makes things simpler and better for users? But instead you make it sound as if NVIDIA is forcing this on everyone, when in fact if you want your mess of multiple PCIe power connectors you can just buy a partner card?

When you allow your fanboyism to impede progress, you need to stop and take a look in the mirror and ask yourself what the hell you're doing.

 

[fevgatos]

Thank You

You can thank me all you want but your original point was nonsensical.

IF (im saying IF), DLSS and RT were worth it, then it's reasonable to expect people to bring it up when pointing out the superiority of nvidia.

There is a reason I call AMD fans cultists, and your argument proved me right, cause frankly it's an argument straight from the bible, I kid you not

"nobody cared about or asked for", what nonsense. Anyone who has forgotten to plug in one of the 6- or 8-pin PCIe connectors on a GPU that has more than one, has cursed the fact that more than one is required. Anyone who has had to route multiple 6- or 8-pin PCIe cables, especially when trying to get a clean-looking case, has cursed the fact that more than one is required. I can give more examples of this problem, and how the single 16-pin connector solves it.

The fact that PCI-SIG standardised on this connector also means that industry wants it, which is hugely important.

Instead of blaming NVIDIA for doing something innovative, and championing and owning it, how about you blame AMD for failing to step up to the plate and adopt a new standard that objectively makes things simpler and better for users? But instead you make it sound as if NVIDIA is forcing this on everyone, when in fact if you want your mess of multiple PCIe power connectors you can just buy a partner card?

When you allow your fanboyism to impede progress, you need to stop and take a look in the mirror and ask yourself what the hell you're doing.

No no, it was nvidia that came up with the connector. They also came up with capitalism, covid and hunger. Those didn't exist before nvidia invented them.

It's always a pleasure reading posts from amd fans, ill give them that

 

[Kabouter Plop]

AMD is killing their market share by constant bad drivers, you can pretend or ignore it but these driver issues are real, and you cant wipe driver issues from history you can install an older driver and you will easily be able to reproduce old issues that been unfixed for months.

 

[Vya Domus]

The fact that PCI-SIG standardised on this connector also means that industry wants it

Not they don't, Nvidia and Dell wanted it and it was added by PCI-SIG at their expense. PCI-SIG has hundreds of members (that includes AMD, Intel, IBM and basically every other major player), so by definition since it was just two of them that needed it that means most of the industry representatives didn't want it. At no point in my life messing with computers was I ever bothered by the fact that I have to plug in two cables instead of one. Certainly not bothered enough to take the risk of improperly plugin in some crappy adapter and having it melt. Anyone that has built computers knows that power cable adapters are and will always be a bad idea.

There is nothing innovative about a bloody connector, what's innovative is managing to screw even something as simple as that up with crappy design.

Here's some innovation for you : Instead of having to come up with whatever stupid connector you had to invent because your GPUs draw 4x 8pin worth of power, why don't you just make a GPU that doesn't need 4x 8pin worth of power ?

 

[Assimilator]

Not they don't, Nvidia and Dell wanted it and it was added by PCI-SIG at their expense. PCI-SIG has hundreds of members (that includes AMD, Intel, IBM and basically every other major player), so by definition since it was just two of them that needed it that means most of the industry representatives didn't want it.

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that when two of the largest players in the desktop and server market float an idea for a new standard of some sort to affect that market, maybe it's because they know what they're doing?

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that the other members of the PCI-SIG are capable of rationally considering the ATX12VHPWR connector to be a reasonable standard to adopt?

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that Jensen Huang is not a member of the Illuminati and is in fact not controlling the world from behind the scenes?

Certainly not bothered enough to take the risk of improperly plugin in some crappy adapter and having it melt. Anyone that has built computers knows that power cable adapters are and will always be a bad idea.

Once again you are conflating the connector with the adapter. Which is what I specifically said not to do in my previous post. So why are you doing it? Are you illiterate?

Here's some innovation for you : Instead of having to come up with whatever stupid connector you had to invent because your GPUs draw 4x 8pin worth of power, why don't you just make a GPU that doesn't need 4x 8pin worth of power ?

You mean like how AMD made a high-end GPU that doesn't need multiple 8-pin power connectors OH WAIT.

 

[Vya Domus]

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that when two of the largest players in the desktop and server market float an idea for a new standard of some sort to affect that market, maybe it's because they know what they're doing?

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that the other members of the PCI-SIG are capable of rationally considering the ATX12VHPWR connector to be a reasonable standard to adopt?

Why is it impossible for you to entertain the possibility that Jensen Huang is not a member of the Illuminati and is in fact not controlling the world from behind the scenes?

It's a god damn power connector, not the second coming of Jesus. Why would you ever assume many of those companies would even care that this exists ?

Which is what I specifically said not to do in my previous post.

I don't care, they're both obviously intrinsically linked. The reason the adapter exists is because Nvidia wanted to use the 16pin connector, the reason they wanted to use it is because their cards draw such a stupendous amount of power and PSUs don't natively support it so they had no choice but to use the adapter. The reason the connectors melt is because they carry said stupendous amount power and the design was bad enough to allow for easy user error. No matter how you spin it it's Nvidia's screw up and far from anything resembling "innovation".

You mean like how AMD made a high-end GPU that doesn't need multiple 8-pin power connectors

4 of them ? That'd be news to me, even AMD didn't achieve that feat in their worst offerings, if you're still begrudgingly holding onto the "AMD space heater meme" you need a reality check.

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