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Radeon VII & GPU-Z support?

V

vailr

Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
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Is the Radeon VII supported yet by GPU-Z?
In particular, there seems to be a problem in certain systems such as with the Intel X299 chipset, of being forced into "CSM enabled" mode when the Radeon VII is installed.
Would like to use GPU-Z to double-check that the "UEFI bios check box" for this card is indeed checked.
Thanks.
 
According to the VBIOS info in TPU's Database, the Radeon VII VBIOS doesn't actually support UEFI. That seems like a pretty big oversight on AMD's part to me...
 
I am sure I read somewhere on the forums that @W1zzard was working on getting it to work with GPU-Z. I think there was something going on. Hopefully, he can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
newtekie1 said:
the Radeon VII VBIOS doesn't actually support UEFI.
Click to expand...
Great for those that don't have UEFI Bios
Pretty Sure AMD/AIB will introduce UEFI Bios in Revised Production Runs
 
xkm1948 said:
Are you kidding me? A 2019 GPU that does not support UEFI??
Click to expand...

It's likely a reporting error. Every other Vega based product has UEFI, seems like a massive headache to make a card that doesn't. It may have a hybrid UEFI/BIOS for extended compatibility, and the database is just not recognizing it. (Something that AMD did actually offer with the Fury X.)
 
Fouquin said:
It's likely a reporting error. Every other Vega based product has UEFI, seems like a massive headache to make a card that doesn't. It may have a hybrid UEFI/BIOS for extended compatibility, and the database is just not recognizing it. (Something that AMD did actually offer with the Fury X.)
Click to expand...

It was an optional BIOS with UEFI support for FuryX after the card was released for more than 6 months. I do remember that.
 
It doesn't appear to be a reporting error. There doesn't seem to be a UEFI GOP image(and/or a compressed EFI ROM containing it) in the BIOS. At least not one that I can find by looking for it assuming the PCIR data structure(which they've always used in the past). There's only one instance of the Device ID in it too. So unless they've omitted that from the UEFI GOP image(which I can't imagine they could/would), it's not likely the UEFI GOP image exists in any form. Weird...

@vailr in case you didn't get the gist of that...unless they've changed things drastically in the manner that they've implemented UEFI GOP support(which AFAIK is not even possible while retaining compatibility)...the card doesn't have a BIOS that supports UEFI GOP(which is also evident by having to use "CSM enabled" mode). In other words...all is working exactly as it should be...given the circumstances. So far as I can tell...

NO UEFI GOP FOR YOU!

Unless...

WARNING! Proceed henceforth in this post with EXTREME CAUTION!

Now. You'd be a fool to try flashing it without a dual BIOS card(or another GPU/IGP to get you into Windows so you can use ATIFlash), and/or a means to flash the BIOS EEPROM via specialized hardware(SPI flasher), if it didn't work. However, I just made a Radeon VII BIOS with UEFI support using the latest Vega compatible AMD GOP version 2.4.0.0.0. I would NOT expect it to work. It might. But just to be clear...DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT...I WARNED YOU NOT TO DO IT!!! That being said...the file is attached below for research purposes ONLY! NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!
 

Attachments

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MrGenius said:
It doesn't appear to be a reporting error. There doesn't seem to be a UEFI GOP image(and/or a compressed EFI ROM containing it) in the BIOS. At least not one that I can find by looking for it assuming the PCIR data structure(which they've always used in the past). There's only one instance of the Device ID in it too. So unless they've omitted that from the UEFI GOP image(which I can't imagine they could/would), it's not likely the UEFI GOP image exists in any form. Weird...

@vailr in case you didn't get the gist of that...unless they've changed things drastically in the manner that they've implemented UEFI GOP support(which AFAIK is not even possible while retaining compatibility)...the card doesn't have a BIOS that supports UEFI GOP(which is evident by having to use "CSM enabled" mode). In other words...all is working exactly as it should be...given the circumstances. So far as I can tell...

NO UEFI GOP FOR YOU!
Click to expand...

What a strange decision by AMD.
 
Fouquin said:
What a strange decision by AMD.
Click to expand...
It may be that they couldn't for some reason. That's pretty much the only reason I can think of for them not to have. I mean...it was easy enough for me to do it with lordkag's UEFI GOP updater tool. Surely they could have done it just as easily if they wanted to. Unless it's just not possible to make it work ATM.
 
MrGenius said:
WARNING! Proceed henceforth in this post with EXTREME CAUTION!

Now. You'd be a fool to try flashing it without a dual BIOS card(or another GPU/IGP to get you into Windows so you can use ATIFlash), or a means to flash the BIOS EEPROM via specialized hardware(SPI flasher), if it didn't work. However, I just made a Radeon VII BIOS with UEFI support using the latest Vega compatible AMD GOP version 2.4.0.0.0. I would NOT expect it to work. It might. But just to be clear...DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT, DON'T DO IT...I WARNED YOU NOT TO DO IT!!! That being said...the file is attached below for research purposes ONLY! NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION!
Click to expand...

Anyone tried it already ?
 
A simple way to validate this would be to try to use UEFI secure boot.

IT shouldn't boot without a proper UEFI image IIRC.
 
R-T-B said:
A simple way to validate this would be to try to use UEFI secure boot.

IT shouldn't boot without a proper UEFI image IIRC.
Click to expand...

On the old FuryX with dual BIOS i actually had to flash BOTH to the UEFI version for secure boot to work. Weird.
 
DSM2 said:
Anyone tried it already ?
Click to expand...
Not that I know of. Looks like 5 people have downloaded it so far though. I would if I had one to try it on. But I'm setup with all the proper tools to fix it in a matter of minutes if it didn't work. I don't really think it will work either. If it's like previous Vega cards you can't really do a damn thing with the BIOS and get away with it. You can update the AMD UEFI GOP version(or change it to any version 2.0 or later) with previous Vega. But that's pretty much it. In fact...that is it AFAIK. I don't expect Radeon VII to be any different. Or, let me put it another way. You can't remove the UEFI support from, or disable the UEFI support in, a Vega BIOS(technically you can...but it won't boot if you do). So I doubt you can add it to a Radeon VII BIOS(also...you can...but it probably won't boot if you do). I'm thinking the same thing protecting the Vega BIOS from letting that happen, will also be protecting the Radeon VII BIOS from letting that happen. I could be wrong though.
R-T-B said:
A simple way to validate this would be to try to use UEFI secure boot.
Click to expand...
I presume that's already been tried. Hence the need for "CSM enabled" mode. IOW...Secure Boot pitching a fit about not being able to find a UEFI GOP image is the only reason why you'd need to do that(need as in no boot period without disabling SB/enabling CSM mode). You'll just get a black screen during boot until the desktop appears with other UEFI features enabled(but without a VBIOS that supports UEFI GOP).
R-T-B said:
IT shouldn't boot without a proper UEFI image IIRC.
Click to expand...
Well...define "proper"? With AMD cards, even if the Legacy ROM of the Hybrid BIOS has been edited you need a modded UEFI GOP image with a signature check bypass to use SB(or any UEFI GOP features). And even then some cards(and/or card + mobo combos) apparently can't use SB. Though other UEFI GOP features will work(fast boot etc.). My 280X doesn't have that issue on my MSI Z77 mobos. I'm able to use SB(and all the other UEFI GOP features) with an edited Legacy ROM and the modded UEFI GOP image.
xkm1948 said:
On the old FuryX with dual BIOS i actually had to flash BOTH to the UEFI version for secure boot to work. Weird.
Click to expand...
Not calling you a liar. But that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Only one VBIOS can be read at any given time on a dual/triple BIOS card. One with a switch anyway. Which they all have AFAIK.
 
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MrGenius said:
Not that I know of. Looks like 5 people have downloaded it so far though. I would if I had one to try it on. But I'm setup with all the proper tools to fix it in a matter of minutes if it didn't work. I don't really think it will work either. If it's like previous Vega cards you can't really do a damn thing with the BIOS and get away with it. You can update the UEFI GOP version(or change it to any version 2.0 or later) with previous Vega. But that's pretty much it. In fact...that is it AFAIK. I don't expect Radeon VII to be any different. Or, let me put it another way. You can't remove the UEFI support from, or disable the UEFI support in, a Vega BIOS. So I doubt you can add it to a Radeon VII BIOS. I'm thinking the same thing protecting the Vega BIOS from letting that happen, will also be protecting the Radeon VII BIOS from letting that happen. I could be wrong though.

I presume that's already been tried. Hence the need for "CSM enabled" mode. IOW...Secure Boot pitching a fit about not being able to find a UEFI GOP image is the only reason why you'd need to do that(need as in no boot period without disabling SB/enabling CSM mode). You'll just get a black screen during boot until the desktop appears with other UEFI features enabled(but without a VBIOS that supports UEFI GOP).

Well...define "proper"? With AMD cards, even if the Legacy ROM of the Hybrid BIOS has been edited you need a modded UEFI GOP image with a signature check bypass to use SB(or any UEFI GOP features). And even then some cards(and/or card + mobo combos) apparently can't use SB. Though other UEFI GOP features will work(fast boot etc.). My 280X doesn't have that issue on my MSI Z77 mobos. I'm able to use SB(and all the other UEFI GOP features) with an edited Legacy ROM and the modded UEFI GOP image.

Not calling you a liar. But that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Only one VBIOS can be read at any given time on a dual/triple BIOS card. One with a switch anyway. Which they all have AFAIK.
Click to expand...

Just pointing out what I observed. Could actually be anything and most likely due to Windows 10 bugs preventing boot up.
 
MrGenius said:
Well...define "proper"?
Click to expand...

In that case, essentially it simply means existing and with valid signature. That is afterall, the entire point of secure boot: firmware and boot validation.
 
Fouquin said:
What a strange decision by AMD.
Click to expand...
I do have to admit this Radeon VII is a mysterious device, that should have had increased numbers over Vega 64, but does not, despite its performance advantage. And now doesn't seem to have UEFI.
Radeon VII Cores = 3840 Why not match Vega 64?? I wonder.
Vega 64 Cores = 4096
 
Super XP said:
I do have to admit this Radeon VII is a mysterious device, that should have had increased numbers over Vega 64, but does not, despite its performance advantage. And now doesn't seem to have UEFI.
Radeon VII Cores = 3840 Why not match Vega 64?? I wonder.
Vega 64 Cores = 4096
Click to expand...

Hardware couldn't increase because 64CUs is the absolute limit of GCN in a monolithic die. They could have matched Vega 64 exactly, but then you're asking for even lower yields as nearly perfect fully-functional dies have to be used. There's also the side of power delivery needing to be bolstered, as well as thermal dissipation being even less manageable. Honestly going for fewer, faster CUs makes more sense than brute-forcing the extra hardware and dealing with the extra resources that go along with that.

But that's all off-topic.
 
Fouquin said:
Hardware couldn't increase because 64CUs is the absolute limit of GCN in a monolithic die. They could have matched Vega 64 exactly, but then you're asking for even lower yields as nearly perfect fully-functional dies have to be used. There's also the side of power delivery needing to be bolstered, as well as thermal dissipation being even less manageable. Honestly going for fewer, faster CUs makes more sense than brute-forcing the extra hardware and dealing with the extra resources that go along with that.

But that's all off-topic.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the great explanation. Makes sense to me now.
 
xkm1948 said:
Just pointing out what I observed.
Click to expand...
And I'll take your word for it. Strange things do happen. That's for sure. But that, specifically, shouldn't ever happen. The switching circuit is designed to enable only one BIOS to be read at a time. It shouldn't be possible for any external firmware(ie motherboard UEFI/BIOS), or any OS software/program/app, to detect if both BIOSes support UEFI(or even to detect there being another BIOS at all, other than the one able to be read at the time).
 
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MrGenius said:
And I'll take your word for it. Strange things do happen. That's for sure. But that, specifically, shouldn't ever happen. The switching circuit is designed to enable only one BIOS to be read at a time. It shouldn't be possible for any external firmware, or any OS software/program/app, to detect if both BIOSes support UEFI(or even to detect there being another BIOS at all, other than the one able to be read at the time).
Click to expand...

As an end user i had little intetiom to dolve something mysteries like that. So flash both BIOS is went.

At least AMD provided UEFI bios back then. I hope they do so again for Radeon 7. Maybe not everyone needs it, but at least it is nice to have.
 
Does RVII have dual bios like Vega's do? Somehow I missed that information.
 
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