Realtek R2.16 X-Fi mod driver

[Ketxxx]

Anyone know what may be going on here? I got some software thats "stuck" on my system. Size just keeps going up.. its likely happen because of so many installs and (supposed) uninstalls of the crapative software where I've been testing things. I tried manual searches for the files and the obvious clicking "remove", but all it does is re-run the installer with no option to uninstall, I have no idea where its pulling these files from. All temp folders are empty.

 

[boise49ers]

Keep your eyes peeled Hopefully the new drivers will be up tomorrow sometime.

Will this driver make the creative software work with Vista 32 bit ? I'd like to have EAX if possible.
If so which creative software would I use ? The mod worked on swapping my realtek drivers,
but acorrding to these threads Creative won't work on Vista unless I missed something.

 

[Ketxxx]

Crapative software won't work on Vista simply because its bugged - hence crap. I'm working on enhancing the Realtek driver and CP as much as possible at this stage and focusing on crapative software later.

 

[imperialreign]

For imperialreign. RightMark Audio Analyzer test results.

Before (2.17)

http://i44.tinypic.com/kf1c7a.png

After (2.17 modded)

http://i43.tinypic.com/2h4wz9j.png


Bernstein audio module - Realtek ALC885, Win 7 x64

much thanks!

reading that alone, and asusming you're testing is accurate . . . the only thing the driver pack is changing - in regards to the percieved audio quality - is how the hardware handles processing the output audio stream.

Frequency response - which, in brief, is the full range of the audio spectrum the hardware is able to reproduce . . . hasn't changed.

Noise level / Dynamic range - basically represents the difference between the strength of the audio signal to that of the stream's noise floor . . . there appears to be a general improvement in two key areas: 16b/44k (which is the standard for 99% of games) and 24b/96k (which is standard for most DVD-quality playback) . . . I'm assuming, then, that the hardware is being directed to process each output channel a bit more seperately, and possibly even being run through the low-pass and high-pass filters a couple of times, possibly as well some changes to the hardware equalizer to achieve a cleaner tone . . .

. . . then again, it's also possible that a echo/reverb/EQ effect is being applied to the output stream, which would affect those values and cause a "false" percieved improvement in audio quality . . . even moreso considering the values for 16b/96k and 24b/44k aren't changed. If it was a definite tweak in how the hardware handles the audio output, I'd expect to see a change with all playback bit-depths and frequencies . . .


THD / IMD+n - no change, except for a slight THD bump in 16b/96k, 24b/44k - possibly from a hardware equalizer change via the driver, or applied audio effect . . . these two values, though, have the biggest major impact on audio quality - and there is absolutely no change here . . . leading me to think that it's quite possible the percieved audio improvement might simply be an effect applied to the output streams played back at preset frequencies . . .


Stereo Crosstalk - somewhat noticeable improvement again in 16b/44k and 24b/96k which should result in less bleed-through between output channel pairs . . . as with Noise Level / Dynamic range, it's safe to assume that the drivers are instructing the hardware to process the audio much differently . . . or that an EQ/filter effect is being applied to eliminate certain "overlapping" frequencies


Extremelly interesting to see these kinds of results - and how much of an effect this software has on RealTek's (IMHO) sub-par hardware. It can easily be assumed that RealTek themselves could improve the audio output quality via better drivers, too . . . as could probably the user themself using a software-based EQ - I do truly wonder, though, what -if any - reverb/echo/EQ effects are possibly applied to the output stream via this pack (which could create a "false" percieved improvement to audio quality).

Hmmm . . . very interesting! Thanks again!

 

[Ketxxx]

Screenshots rarely lie. Theres of course nothing the drivers can do to fundamentally change the hardware as you noted with frequency responce, but Realtek hardware is pathetic. Aside from a much larger install with with the mod driver, you know the chip is handling things differently simply by looking at CPU usage. Vanilla driver - 4-6%, modded - 5-11%. You could try putting a small heatsink on the Realtek chip too to help isolate it from electronic crosstalk. You may also find this useful as a guide to where the modded driver has a Realtek chip standing.

 

[imperialreign]

Screenshots rarely lie. Theres of course nothing the drivers can do to fundamentally change the hardware as you noted with frequency responce, but Realtek hardware is pathetic. Aside from a much larger install with with the mod driver, you know the chip is handling things differently simply by looking at CPU usage. Vanilla driver - 4-6%, modded - 5-11%. You could try putting a small heatsink on the Realtek chip too to help isolate it from electronic crosstalk.

based on my experiments, placing a copper HS on chipsets will reduce some noise levels and crosstalk, but not majorly. The only thing you're really accomplishing is adding a small amount of EMI shielding to the component.

In regards to onboard solutions, though - you may see a bit more improvement . . . but still possibly not much.


As to the RMAA screenshots - although they show what appears to be an increas in audio quality . . . they don't show any change in the hardware's handling of the output streams . . . without seeing a difference in hardware audio quality levels, I can't 100% rule out the possiblity that the only "real" difference to the output streams is simply an echo/reverb/EQ effect that clears up certain frequencies . . . much like how the Crystallizer feature works with Creative's audio cards. I really can't tell . . . hell, it's even possible the drivers are using a positional audio tweak to strengthen 2-channel output.

If there were a major change to how the hardware itself is configured, there'd be an improvement for all playback bit-depths as well as playback frequencies . . . not only the two most common for the most-common forms of audio usage (16b/44k for gaming, 24b/96k for entertainment).


I agree RealTek's hardware is pathetic . . . as are all other onboard solutions - but even if these drivers do give a "false" improvement to audio quality, I guess people can be happy with that.

 

[Ketxxx]

Anything that can aid in making a onboard codec better, is all good. I can say the modded driver I done I immediately noticed a very noticable improvement on my Logitech X540s, and thats coming from a Sonicfury, which while dated, is usually still way ahead of onboard solutions. The only onboard audio I hold merit in these days are ADI, their 1988B and 2000 codecs are absolutely stellar.

 

[imperialreign]

Anything that can aid in making a onboard codec better, is all good. I can say the modded driver I done I immediately noticed a very noticable improvement on my Logitech X540s, and thats coming from a Sonicfury, which while dated, is usually still way ahead of onboard solutions. The only onboard audio I hold merit in these days are ADI, their 1988B and 2000 codecs are absolutely stellar.

meh . . . http://forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=64921

the onboard testing I had done for that guide (the graphs in red/white) - were from an AD1988B.

I'll say as well that Analouge Devices' solutions are superior to RealTek's . . . but are still far from even the majority of "economy" sound cards.



Anyhow, if these driver packs allow other users to experience a "better" audio quality, than more power to them . . . just as long as everyone is with the understanding that (almost-asuredly) there are really no actual changes to the hardware processing schemes. All you're really getting is a set of functional software features that appear to affect how the audio is filtered and EQed prior to being converted to an analogue stream.

Still - it's nice to see some of Creative's hoarded software features (such as CMSS-3D and EAX which are still unrivaled by competitors) being made more available to the general consumer. If this trend from Creative continues, we could start seeing more software titles that support these features as well (especially games with EAX and OpenAL support) - even though I'm assuming the majority of the audio-quality functionality these drivers provide is simply a smoke-&-mirrors trick, I'm willing to be supportive if they're the first start in getting more software developers to support and impliment either EAX and/or OpenAL.

 

[Mussels]

CMSS and EAX arent what i would call 'unrivalled' - creative wont let anyone use it, with the one excpetion of auzentechs X-fi cards.

 

[imperialreign]

CMSS and EAX arent what i would call 'unrivalled' - creative wont let anyone use it, with the one excpetion of auzentechs X-fi cards.

partially agreed . . .

ATM, OpenAL supports all calls found with EAX4HD, including many EAX calls that are specific to the X-Fi series (e.g. X-RAM capabilities).

Thing is, OpenAL is fully open-source, anyone can get involved in helping with development. Creative has actually been quite involved with further development of the API, and other large companies have also joined in occasionally for development aide . . . as to the best of my knowledge, though, none of the other major audio hardware manufacturers have joined in with the development initiative (ASUS).

So . . . we could say EAX5HD is purely Creative exclusive . . . but EAX4HD (which is still the most commonly supported version of EAX) is really available for everyone - if a software developer cares enough to impliment OpenAL.

As to positional audio - every manufacturer has come up with their own solution . . . ASUS, Auzen (for their non-X-Fi cards), HT Omega, etc. . . . CMSS-3D, though, is far more accurate . . . but the catch? You need a real X-Fi to make the most of the positioning accuracy, as accuracy is dependant upon the number of software voices the hardware can render, and no audio hardware can anywhere near match the number of software voices the CA201K is capable of. Although, I partially erred with my earlier statement - for CMSS-3D to be superior you need an X-Fi APU, otherwise, it's superiority over other vendor's soultions is marginal.



I guess this thread has de-railed enough, eh?

 

[CheetoLover]

partially agreed . . .

ATM, OpenAL supports all calls found with EAX4HD, including many EAX calls that are specific to the X-Fi series (e.g. X-RAM capabilities).

Thing is, OpenAL is fully open-source, anyone can get involved in helping with development. Creative has actually been quite involved with further development of the API, and other large companies have also joined in occasionally for development aide . . . as to the best of my knowledge, though, none of the other major audio hardware manufacturers have joined in with the development initiative (ASUS).

So . . . we could say EAX5HD is purely Creative exclusive . . . but EAX4HD (which is still the most commonly supported version of EAX) is really available for everyone - if a software developer cares enough to impliment OpenAL.

As to positional audio - every manufacturer has come up with their own solution . . . ASUS, Auzen (for their non-X-Fi cards), HT Omega, etc. . . . CMSS-3D, though, is far more accurate . . . but the catch? You need a real X-Fi to make the most of the positioning accuracy, as accuracy is dependant upon the number of software voices the hardware can render, and no audio hardware can anywhere near match the number of software voices the CA201K is capable of. Although, I partially erred with my earlier statement - for CMSS-3D to be superior you need an X-Fi APU, otherwise, it's superiority over other vendor's soultions is marginal.



I guess this thread has de-railed enough, eh?

im pretty sure when i was looking at charts that the 8788 at least has the x-fi beat on voices...cant remmber where i found the chart, think it was on auzens site b4 they went to being another arm of creative and dumped all their non-creative cards.

as to onboard, i do really wish that cmedia would make a new version of their oxygen hd onboard codec, I know 2 people who have motherboards with that audio chip and its FAR better then realtek's, The software alone is vastly supperior, 3d possitioning is excelent with xear.

alot of people will badmouth cmedia and xear, but out of all the onboard audio solutions i have had(most of them) cmedias have had the best software support, ADI if you can find a driver pack other then asus's thats updated have decent software as well, tho its a crapshoot trying to find said updated drivers.

ADI's major flaw is they dont dirrectly offer driver updates, your FORCED to wait for asus or the like to update their driver pack and HOPE they do all the fixes adi has come up with BAH I SAY!!!!

ADI fixed a good number of issues on the ADI codec that asus never did empliment even a year later, hence i sold that mobo, i hate having stuff onboard that i cant use properly/to its fullist.

least with realtek they do update their drivers regularly, you must admit that is better then creative or asus or most other makers driver update cycle........

and like i said, the drivers at least for me dont show any improovement over stock drivers, i tweak the EQ a bit(diffrent for each set of speekers and ears, so u gotta tweak ur self)

could easly be the changes ket makes do change what i would call the "low level" or the software eq's defaults.....

im on the 2.18's now, not seeing any diff from kets, other then the device name

 

[imperialreign]

im pretty sure when i was looking at charts that the 8788 at least has the x-fi beat on voices...cant remmber where i found the chart, think it was on auzens site b4 they went to being another arm of creative and dumped all their non-creative cards.

I doubt it - although all major audio manufacturers support the same number of hardware voices (128), the number of software voices is drastically different. There's some variation from one chipset to the next, but the largest number of software voices most chipsets are capable of is in the range of 3000-8000 (an assesment of mine in a much older thread was wrong) . . . the CA201K, though, can achieve 65535 . . . that level of processing power is what makes CMSS-3D the most accurate and powerful positional audio solution out there . . . and why it can be so beneficial for gaming.

as to onboard, i do really wish that cmedia would make a new version of their oxygen hd onboard codec, I know 2 people who have motherboards with that audio chip and its FAR better then realtek's, The software alone is vastly supperior, 3d possitioning is excelent with xear.

alot of people will badmouth cmedia and xear, but out of all the onboard audio solutions i have had(most of them) cmedias have had the best software support, ADI if you can find a driver pack other then asus's thats updated have decent software as well, tho its a crapshoot trying to find said updated drivers.

ADI's major flaw is they dont dirrectly offer driver updates, your FORCED to wait for asus or the like to update their driver pack and HOPE they do all the fixes adi has come up with BAH I SAY!!!!

ADI fixed a good number of issues on the ADI codec that asus never did empliment even a year later, hence i sold that mobo, i hate having stuff onboard that i cant use properly/to its fullist.

least with realtek they do update their drivers regularly, you must admit that is better then creative or asus or most other makers driver update cycle........

and like i said, the drivers at least for me dont show any improovement over stock drivers, i tweak the EQ a bit(diffrent for each set of speekers and ears, so u gotta tweak ur self)

could easly be the changes ket makes do change what i would call the "low level" or the software eq's defaults.....

im on the 2.18's now, not seeing any diff from kets, other then the device name

yep - althought ADI manufacture better chipsets capable of better audio quality - they don't update their drivers often enough. I think RealTek would be in the same boat, if it wasn't for the number of review sites and periodicals that continuously ragged on them about their "fake" HD drivers.

I will say as well, Creative have been updating their drivers a lot more recently - hell, WIN7 beta drivers are already available for the whole X-Fi lineup . . . long before WIN7's release . . . I hope this trend of more frequent updates will continue.

 

[CheetoLover]

creative really needs to update more offten, after the abizimal support so many cards got for known buggs(years and still no patch for some buggs) they either need to get off their ass, or just start offering chips and such to other companys that will do a better job.

whats sad to me is that 3d possitioning on my old cmedia 9768(think thats the number) was far better then it is on realtek's HD, tho any but the 2 front chanils wherent as clear/crisp, at least i could hear for sure if i was being chased in alot of games

now in legions, i hear shots that may be chasers, but i cant be 100% sure they are till i see the bullets missing me or i take damnage :/

would be nice if somebody would bring out a mobo line that was a reasonable price with a decent full on audio codec on it, hell even the 8768 would would be a great improovement imho.

 

[KainXS]

I think that if someone could make mod an ADI driver we would be getting some stellar results from it and creatives software does support ADI's HDA chips but there are no drivers to link with them,

 

[Ketxxx]

Forget it I'm not modding ADI drivers they do things differently to Realtek, similar driver design but all the different names means it would take bloody ages editing ini files.

 

[CheetoLover]

u know ket, if you setup vista/2k8 you could do your own vista mod drivers that worked properly

 

[raptori]

Anyone know what may be going on here? I got some software thats "stuck" on my system. Size just keeps going up.. its likely happen because of so many installs and (supposed) uninstalls of the crapative software where I've been testing things. I tried manual searches for the files and the obvious clicking "remove", but all it does is re-run the installer with no option to uninstall, I have no idea where its pulling these files from. All temp folders are empty.

just like me ..... i found many junk in (C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information) who doesn't do any thing but reinstall this crap (gigabyte software) and more is: you can't remove em through add/remove nothing there except media source ..... if you have same thing then your next symptom (if you remove gigabyte software manually )is: loosing sound effect tab in realtek sound manager and 3d demo tab and your hardware will be recognized by gigabyte software ..... if you have a solution please tell us.

 

[Supreme0verlord]

Ok I have something weird going on here, I installed the drivers ok, then I decided to install the X-Fi software just to see if it would magically work, and what do you know, it doesn't! Ok, so then I uninstalled the X-Fi software then I restart like usual.

Now everytime I restart, I have to re-install the drivers to get the audio to work, it's REALLY annoying. Do you have any idea on how to fix this?! And yes I did disable the digital signing and it still does this.

 

[CheetoLover]

Ok I have something weird going on here, I installed the drivers ok, then I decided to install the X-Fi software just to see if it would magically work, and what do you know, it doesn't! Ok, so then I uninstalled the X-Fi software then I restart like usual.

Now everytime I restart, I have to re-install the drivers to get the audio to work, it's REALLY annoying. Do you have any idea on how to fix this?! And yes I did disable the digital signing and it still does this.

run driver cleaner or driver sweeper then reinstall the audio drivers see if that helps.

oh and your avatar is a bit out of date.

 

[Supreme0verlord]

Ok, I will try that now.

And yeah I know my avatar is out of date but I really liked it! I need to Photoshop the '08 out of there at some point.

 

[OnBoard]

You could try putting a small heatsink on the Realtek chip too to help isolate it from electronic crosstalk.

based on my experiments, placing a copper HS on chipsets will reduce some noise levels and crosstalk, but not majorly. The only thing you're really accomplishing is adding a small amount of EMI shielding to the component.

How would an aluminium ramsink do? I get some electrical noise through, noticeable when loading a level in game or moving mouse.

Nothing bad has to no sound coming at the moment to hear it, but wouldn't mind even less. If it would bother me too much I'd stick my audigy back in or get a new card

wow it's small: http://www.links.co.jp/items/x48dq11.jpg
luckily it isn't under my GPU, but anything bigger than a mosfet heatsink wont fit (have those too).

edit: oh well, I'll sink it even if it does nothig ->

 

[Supreme0verlord]

Nope, it still doesn't work. I did the usual, uninstall from device manager > restart in safe mode and ran driver cleaner > restart back into windows and install the driver's. After I did all of that and restarted, it still doesn't work. I don't know what's going on here.

 

[Ketxxx]

just like me ..... i found many junk in (C:\Program Files\InstallShield Installation Information) who doesn't do any thing but reinstall this crap (gigabyte software) and more is: you can't remove em through add/remove nothing there except media source ..... if you have same thing then your next symptom (if you remove gigabyte software manually )is: loosing sound effect tab in realtek sound manager and 3d demo tab and your hardware will be recognized by gigabyte software ..... if you have a solution please tell us.

Not in that folder either for me.... I'd love to know where the hell those files are being stored. None too impressed with almost 2.5GB of my HDD being eaten by sh1t.

How would an aluminium ramsink do? I get some electrical noise through, noticeable when loading a level in game or moving mouse.

Nothing bad has to no sound coming at the moment to hear it, but wouldn't mind even less. If it would bother me too much I'd stick my audigy back in or get a new card

wow it's small: http://www.links.co.jp/items/x48dq11.jpg
luckily it isn't under my GPU, but anything bigger than a mosfet heatsink wont fit (have those too).

edit: oh well, I'll sink it even if it does nothig ->

Never tried aluminium, I would assume it'll help still though.

Nope, it still doesn't work. I did the usual, uninstall from device manager > restart in safe mode and ran driver cleaner > restart back into windows and install the driver's. After I did all of that and restarted, it still doesn't work. I don't know what's going on here.

See first quote.. lots of us are being caught by that SOB crapative software.

ED - Format time for me and rebuild time, new P5Q Pro has just arrived Hope this spanking new replacement board does a lot better than the last one. Oh and I never used RMAA before, can someone tell me what cable I need to run RMAA? I probably have the cable needed laying around already, but meh.. don't want to read the readme

 

[Supreme0verlord]

Ok this is seriously starting to piss me off now, i've tried everything I can think of and it still won't work damn crapative software! :shakes fist: I guess I can't use your driver's until I format again or until a workaround is found.

 

[KainXS]

I think I hit a snag, apparently, my pc somehow has 144DB of noise somehow

???