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Roman descendants found in China!

TheMailMan78

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Man the more people think they know "for sure" the less we really do know.

Residents of a remote Chinese village are hoping that DNA tests will prove one of history's most unlikely legends — that they are descended from Roman legionaries lost in antiquity.

Scientists have taken blood samples from 93 people living in and around Liqian, a settlement in north-western China on the fringes of the Gobi desert, more than 200 miles from the nearest city.

They are seeking an explanation for the unusual number of local people with western characteristics — green eyes, big noses, and even blonde hair — mixed with traditional Chinese features.

"I really think we are descended from the Romans," said Song Guorong, 48, who with his wavy hair, six-foot frame and strikingly long, hooked nose stands out from his short, round-faced office colleagues.

"There are the residents with these special features, and then there are also historical records about the existence of these people long ago," he said.

Studies claiming that Liqian has Roman ancestry have greatly excited the impoverished county in which it is situated. The village is now overlooked by a pillared portico, in the hope of attracting tourists. A statue at the entrance of the nearby county town, Yongchang, shows a Roman legionary standing next to a Confucian scholar and a Muslim woman, as a symbol of racial harmony.

The town's link with Rome was first suggested by a professor of Chinese history at Oxford in the 1950s. Homer Dubs pulled together stories from the official histories, which said that Liqian was founded by soldiers captured in a war between the Chinese and the Huns in 36BC, and the legend of the missing army of Marcus Crassus, a Roman general.

In 53BC Crassus was defeated disastrously and beheaded by the Parthians, a tribe occupying what is now Iran, putting an end to Rome's eastward expansion.

But stories persisted that 145 Romans were taken captive and wandered the region for years. Prof Dubs theorised that they made their way as a mercenary troop eastwards, which was how a troop "with a fish-scale formation" came to be captured by the Chinese 17 years later.

He said the "fish-scale formation" was a reference to the Roman "tortoise", a phalanx protected by shields on all sides and from above. Gu Jianming, who lives near Liqian, said it had come as a surprise to be told he might be descended from a European imperial army. But then the birth of his daughter was also a surprise. Gu Meina, now six, was born with a shock of blonde hair. "We shaved it off a month after she was born but it just grew back the same colour," he said. "At school they call her 'yellow hair'. Before we were told about the Romans, we had no idea about this. We are poor and have no family temple, so we don't know about our ancestors."

Another resident, Cai Junnian, 38, said his ruddy skin and green eyes meant he was now nicknamed Cai Luoma, or Cai the Roman, by friends. He has become a local celebrity, and was recently flown to the Italian consulate in Shanghai to meet his supposed relatives. The professor's hypothesis took almost 40 years to reach China. During Chairman Mao's rule, ideas of foreign ancestry were not ideologically welcome and the story was suppressed.

Mr Cai said his great-grandfather told him that there were Roman tombs in the Qilian mountains a day and a half's walk away, but he had never connected them to the unusual appearance he inherited from his father. "People thought I had a skin problem," he said.

The blood tests are part of a project undertaken by scientists and historians after local authorities loosened control over genetic research. The results will be published in a scientific journal. But Prof Xie Xiaodong, a geneticist from Lanzhou University, cautioned against over enthusiasm.

"Even if they are descendants of the Roman empire, it doesn't mean they are necessarily from the Roman army," he said. "The empire covered a large area. Many soldiers were recruited locally, so anything is possible."

The issue has split the university's history department, with some scholars supporting the claim, some rejecting it. Prof Wang Shaokuan poured scorn on Prof Dubs's thesis, saying the Huns themselves included Caucasians, Asians and Mongols.

Source
 
oh puhleeze

I think you underestimate the expansionism of the Roman Empire at that time. Remember Alexander the Great made it all the way to India by 300BC and that was far before the more powerful Roman Empire peaked almost 400 years later. This news of a small group making it to northern China is not that far fetched if you understand history.
 
I think you underestimate the expansionism of the Roman Empire at that time. Remember Alexander the Great made it all the way to India by 300BC and that was far before the more powerful Roman Empire peaked almost 400 years later. This news of a small group making it to northern China is not that far fetched if you understand history.

I think he doesn't know what to think so he made a nice two word post to increase his post count which is something he understands because he didn't know what you thought he knew but now may know which he may not know.

Yeah, send in the janitor to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.

Anyhoo, it all makes sense. The Roman Empire was vast and it liked to have sex with everything. I have no doubt it reached to China.
 
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could also be huns as they did cover a large empire too and included caucasian people

im open to the idea of romans reaching the fringes of china sounds plausable but needs more evidence rather than oh it could be
 
Damn shame Genghis khan decided to stop and turn around when he hit the middle east. Or that would be the other way round.
 
their just lucky so few romans got there or their pre history would have been obliterated too, yeh they built bridges but they did a fair bit of book/people burnin too
 
their just lucky so few romans got there or their pre history would have been obliterated too, yeh they built bridges but they did a fair bit of book/people burnin too

You gotta remember that it was politics that stopped the Roman empire from conquering the world, they would have easily done it. Most Roman legions had very few actual romans in them. It was a paid army and anyone could enlist. Thanks to Marius.
 
Didn't they find this tribe of redheads somewhere in China not too long ago?

EDIT: http://nell-rose.hubpages.com/hub/The-White-Tribes-of-Ancient-China

Yeah, this has been out there for a while. I guess the news is the fact that there is still an area where the original DNA hasn't been diluted much. But I remember seeing a spread in NatGeo like 20 years ago that really struck me. One of the artifacts was a tall pointy hat that was believed to belong to the village shaman. It reminded me that all myths and fairy tales have some basis in truth and in history.
 
Just for reference

RomanEmpire.jpg


The orange and red dots are the places mentioned in the article.

roman chinese map.jpg


Another thing that interesting about the pics I provided is that if you look at the borders of Georgia, Azerbaijan, Iraq and Iran they haven't changed in about 1700 years.
 
Well so evidence did crop up. Certainly one of the what-if scenarios. What if the Romans were able to subdue the Parthians and reach North (Central) Asia, and Han China gets to expand further westward too?
 
This is indeed possible. It was common practice for the victor to conscript captured soldiers into its army. Rome warred with Parthia, who warred with China. Makes sense to me.

The explanation for entire villages with these traits also makes sense. The Chinese would segregate capured soldiers into individual camps. There is actually a village somewhere in western China called "Leijin", which was China's name for Rome at the time (lit. "Legion").
 
Well so evidence did crop up. Certainly one of the what-if scenarios. What if the Romans were able to subdue the Parthians and reach North (Central) Asia, and Han China gets to expand further westward too?

Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.

Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?
 
Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.

Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?

and the dark ages. but yeah, i agree.
 
Ya know they found Roman clay pots off the coast of north America a few years ago also. Off of South Carolina I think. They were still sealed with olive oil inside. Honestly I think there was a lot of international trade but a lot of that info was lost due to the plague.

Celtic monks can only write so much ya know?

And there was a major empire existing in North America at that time, capable of threatening the Roman Empire?


It seems you're insinuating that I'm saying that there was no interaction at all between the Roman Empire and Han China. Where the f**k do Romans get their silk then? From giant spiders?

So it looks like my point may have been lost with all that "overflowing levels of win."
 
And there was a major empire existing in North America at that time, capable of threatening the Roman Empire?

No but the Romans were about expansion man. They were very much explorers as was Alexandria. Its genetics to wander man. We as a species were nomadic not 5,000 years ago. Thats a drop in the bucket evolution wise.

Why do you think "open world" based games are so popular? Do you think any human likes to live in a box?
 
No but the Romans were about expansion man. They were very much explorers as was Alexandria. Its genetics to wander man. We as a species were nomadic not 5,000 years ago. Thats a drop in the bucket evolution wise.

Why do you think "open world" based games are so popular? Do you think any human likes to live in a box?

:rolleyes:

Confirmed. You have entirely missed the point. Or maybe because your intellect is "too superior"?
 
:rolleyes:

Confirmed. You have entirely missed the point.

No all I was stating was the fact Romans may not have conquered everything they had interaction in. That doesn't mean they were not there. ;)
 
just a note entropy: the quote is of charlie sheen. he is arrogant but not THAT arrogant. ;)
 
I think he doesn't know what to think so he made a nice two word post to increase his post count which is something he understands because he didn't know what you thought he knew but now may know which he may not know.

Yeah, send in the janitor to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.

Anyhoo, it all makes sense. The Roman Empire was vast and it liked to have sex with everything. I have no doubt it reached to China.

i lold.

and, the last thing i expected was history on TPU :/
 
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And Buddhist monks were in Alexandria, etc. Before computers, people really did go out, you know, haha
 
Black Plague was Much much later man

You do know there has been WAY MORE then one plague. Rome was hit twice alone. Anyway the last great plague (most famous black) caused many records to be burned for sanitation. Also lets not forget the burning of Library of Alexandria. Also the public book burning in the public square at Granada in the 1400's. So much loss.
 
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