Steam's "indiepocalypse"

[Assimilator]

It takes 1000s of impressions to get a single click.

Yup. The reason ads are everywhere is not because they are effective!

And if the games suddenly disappear from the store he bought them? Backups are a good thing.

You don't understand how DRM works, do you?

 

[lexluthermiester]

You don't understand how DRM works, do you?

Most "indie" titles on Steam don't have DRM or require an internet connection. Even many of the major titles don't. And for those that do, there are ways around it. You were saying?

 

[64K]

Most "indie" titles on Steam don't have DRM or require an internet connection. Even many of the major titles don't. And for those that do, there are ways around it. You were saying?

There are quite a few games that don't have DRM on Steam or require the Steam launcher or even to be connected to the internet. Most are older games or Indies:

List of DRM-free games

This is a list of games and software available on Steam that do not require the use of the Steam client itself (after the game or software is downloaded using the client), do not contain any third-party DRM (Digital rights management, e.g. Games for Windows - LIVE, Uplay, Denuvo Anti-Tamper...

steam.fandom.com

 

[Papahyooie]

It takes 1000s of impressions to get a single click.

That's my point. When you can reach a hundred million people at the drop of a hat, that's a lot of clicks. Regardless, steam is no different in that regard. The storefront is just advertising. We're literally talking about how Steam is advertising "unfairly" as some see it, and you're going to argue that advertising doesn't work? Which is it lol?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

It's placement. People going to Steam to drop money on a game right now only consider the handful of games that are prominently displayed on the front page. Indies get virtually no coverage there anymore which is why their sales have plummeted since the change. It's not impressions (like AdWords) that matter, it's being featured at all.

 

[Papahyooie]

It's placement. People going to Steam to drop money on a game right now only consider the handful of games that are prominently displayed on the front page. Indies get virtually no coverage there anymore which is why their sales have plummeted since the change. It's not impressions (like AdWords) that matter, it's being featured at all.

Right.... and with Adwords and other advertising schemes, you're guaranteed to get the impressions you pay for... whereas steam isn't giving them any at all while still taking a cut of any profits they DO make... I don't see where you're going with this... It's like you're agreeing with me, while still arguing about it... Placement IS advertising. If they're not being placed, they're not being advertised. Putting a game on the front page of steam IS an impression (or inherently generates impressions, if you want to be technical). There's no difference whatsoever.

 

[Slizzo]

Why would you backup your games? Just re-download them if you lose your drive, as long as the actual saves are okay (and 90% of the time they're synced to Steam's cloud so they are) then no problem.

Data caps are a thing. I but up against mine now (1TB) due to me cutting the cord recently.

Download a game or two and I've hit my cap with the streaming that is going on now.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Right.... and with Adwords and other advertising schemes, you're guaranteed to get the impressions you pay for... whereas steam isn't giving them any at all while still taking a cut of any profits they DO make... I don't see where you're going with this... It's like you're agreeing with me, while still arguing about it... Placement IS advertising. If they're not being placed, they're not being advertised. Putting a game on the front page of steam IS an impression (or inherently generates impressions, if you want to be technical). There's no difference whatsoever.

That's the point. Steam is not trying to sell indies anymore. They're mostly trying to sell games that already have a lot of sales. When you consider the fact that Steam's revenue share declines the more a game makes, it's like Steam is trying to lose revenue by not promoting indies. None of it really makes any sense other than Steam desperately trying not to lose titles to EGS.

 

[Papahyooie]

That's the point. Steam is not trying to sell indies anymore. They're mostly trying to sell games that already have a lot of sales. When you consider the fact that Steam's revenue share declines the more a game makes, it's like Steam is trying to lose revenue by not promoting indies. None of it really makes any sense other than Steam desperately trying not to lose titles to EGS.

Ok lol... and my point was that indies shouldn't use steam anymore because steam isn't serving them, and they should use other means... So where's the disagreement....? You're arguing against something that you seem to agree with.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Getting on other stores. Unless you have a reputation, GOG and EGS won't take you.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Getting on other stores. Unless you have a reputation, GOG and EGS won't take you.

I don't know about EGS, but that is incorrect about GOG.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

A lot of indies approach GOG and GOG rejects them. Even indies that had a successful crowdfund campaign. Examples:

Acclaimed puzzle game rejected by GOG.com for reasons unknown

‘It did not pass our internal curation system’

www.polygon.com

Warbanners will not be in the GOG :: Warbanners General Discussions

Unfortunately, Warbanners will not be in the GOG. The administration has long considered our application. They said that we were close, but, nevertheless, rejected.

steamcommunity.com

 

[Papahyooie]

Getting on other stores. Unless you have a reputation, GOG and EGS won't take you.

I didn't suggest using other stores... In fact, I suggested the opposite. If those other stores are also not serving you, why use them either?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Then what option is left other than not making the game at all?

 

[Papahyooie]

Then what option is left other than not making the game at all?

....don't use third party storefronts....

 

[FordGT90Concept]

All developers do that already as part of their media blitz (Twitter and Facebook is pretty much mandatory; Twitch streamers is pretty common too and maybe some YouTube personalities). It's not enough unless you already have a huge, active social media following. Let's not forget that social media is extremely fickle. You may get nothing on one game, a huge following on the next, and nothing after that. This is why Telltale Games folded and they were hardly indie but they faced the same struggles indie developers do (one hit and production costs exceeding revenue).

On top of that, you need distribution channels. If you're not using Steam, you have to have some means of getting the game out there and likely keeping it updated. If you're suggesting the developer make that too...that's more work they aren't likely to get compensated for. Bandwidth also isn't free.

 

[Papahyooie]

All developers do that already as part of their media blitz (Twitter and Facebook is pretty much mandatory). It doesn't work.

On top of that, you need distribution channels. If you're not using Steam, you have to have some means of getting the game out there and likely keeping it updated. If you're suggesting the developer make that too...that's more work they aren't likely to get compensated for. Bandwidth also isn't free.

That doesn't make any sense. You're suggesting that because a game happens to be on steam, the Twitter and Facebook campaigns don't work? You're suggesting that all of the media success is purely because it happens to get a spot on the steam front page? Nah, that's simply not true. You can't say Twitter and Facebook campaigns are mandatory, and then say they don't work. That's nonsense.

And yea, distribution and bandwidth aren't free, you're right. But you're ignoring your own point here... STEAM ISN'T MAKING SALES FOR THEM! So all that distribution and bandwidth that they pay for through Steam's cut of the few sales they do make, is wasted. By saying that, you're saying that they should rather stick with Steam, that isn't making them money, rather than investing in their own distribution channels. That's just silly.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

No, Twitter and Facebook in general generate very few sales. It has nothing to do with Steam.

Look at the two threads in the OP. They show the impact of sales, media blitz, and the Steam recommendations before and after the change. Before the change, there was this constant growing trickle of sales. After the change, the sales are almost completely gone.

Think of Steam like a brick and mortar grocery store. Products place at the ends of rows tend to sell better than items in rows due to placement. Indies used to get end rows on rotation, now they don't.

Most indies can't even afford to make the game, nevermind creating ("investing in") a distribution platform too. Not to mention, look at the outcry at EGS. A lot of people don't want more distribution software installed on their computer and more user credentials to manage.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Getting on other stores. Unless you have a reputation, GOG and EGS won't take you.

GOG takes many of the unknown indies, including Early Access games from unknowns.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Getting on other stores. Unless you have a reputation, GOG and EGS won't take you.

I didn't realize this, it is harsh that early stage devs struggle to get a look in, seams it is kind of like the movies , you have to make a blair witch of epic proportions and cross your fingers, not good for their economy.

They should all have an indie section , a AAA section and then the general storefront as it was IMHO.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I didn't realize this, it is harsh that early stage devs struggle to get a look in, seams it is kind of like the movies , you have to make a blair witch of epic proportions and cross your fingers, not good for their economy.

They should all have an indie section , a AAA section and then the general storefront as it was IMHO.

Check my post before yours.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Have some more rejected by GOG:

GOG rejected Heaven's Vault, but is now having second thoughts

Turns out it's a pretty good game, and pretty popular too, so it might get a GOG release after all.

www.pcgamer.com

GOG rejected my game :( - GameCreators Forum

forum.thegamecreators.com

Cyberpunk RPG Dex Rejected by GOG - Cliqist

It’s been about two months since Cyberpunk RPG Dex was released to the public and fans have been able to play it on multiple platforms....

cliqist.com

Legends of Amberland no longer rejected by GOG

EDIT: The game has been released on GOG. Details below. Legends of Amberland approved by GOG! All right, here goes the story. A while ago, I got a surprise email from GOG and it said they do want to have LoA on their store after all. Why the sudden change of heart is a speculation but I...

rpgcodex.net

Remastered Products Rejected by GOG.com

Some people were asking about why we're not on https://www.gog.com/ (Quote)

strandgames.com

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Check my post before yours.

Fair enough,i did add what I would like to see , basically multiple isles , departments or sections And a main normal store front.
But search generally has me covered.

Maybe we need more diverse influencers , tubers and websites, capable of promoting indies ,but people are habitual , I would love more tech sites but it's either I'm blind to the others or stuck on the few I go to.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Have some more rejected by GOG:

GOG rejected Heaven's Vault, but is now having second thoughts

Turns out it's a pretty good game, and pretty popular too, so it might get a GOG release after all.

www.pcgamer.com

GOG had valid reasons for rejecting that game.

GOG rejected my game :( - GameCreators Forum

forum.thegamecreators.com

That game was not in a "ready to market state", as admitted by the creator.

Cyberpunk RPG Dex Rejected by GOG - Cliqist

It’s been about two months since Cyberpunk RPG Dex was released to the public and fans have been able to play it on multiple platforms....

cliqist.com

Um..

Dex

Demo version of Dex is available here Includes the Extra Outfits DLC. Explore, fight,

www.gog.com

You were saying?

Legends of Amberland no longer rejected by GOG

EDIT: The game has been released on GOG. Details below. Legends of Amberland approved by GOG! All right, here goes the story. A while ago, I got a surprise email from GOG and it said they do want to have LoA on their store after all. Why the sudden change of heart is a speculation but I...

rpgcodex.net

The reason for rejection was not stated, however, looking a screenshots, it looks like a bottom of the barrel title from the DOS days. GOG has a reputation to uphold. You know, "GOOD Old Games". Not crap new games.

Remastered Products Rejected by GOG.com

Some people were asking about why we're not on https://www.gog.com/ (Quote)

strandgames.com

Same here.

Every publisher rejects prospective games. This is not earth-shattering information here.

 

[rtwjunkie]

Have some more rejected by GOG:

GOG rejected Heaven's Vault, but is now having second thoughts

Turns out it's a pretty good game, and pretty popular too, so it might get a GOG release after all.

www.pcgamer.com

GOG rejected my game :( - GameCreators Forum

forum.thegamecreators.com

Cyberpunk RPG Dex Rejected by GOG - Cliqist

It’s been about two months since Cyberpunk RPG Dex was released to the public and fans have been able to play it on multiple platforms....

cliqist.com

Legends of Amberland no longer rejected by GOG

EDIT: The game has been released on GOG. Details below. Legends of Amberland approved by GOG! All right, here goes the story. A while ago, I got a surprise email from GOG and it said they do want to have LoA on their store after all. Why the sudden change of heart is a speculation but I...

rpgcodex.net

Remastered Products Rejected by GOG.com

Some people were asking about why we're not on https://www.gog.com/ (Quote)

strandgames.com

Ford you can cherry pick all you want, but those are not proof of your point. It just means that you have examples of rejected games. Fact is GOG is chock full of Indies from unknowns, and EA ‘s from unknowns.

If anything, it’s commendable that any frickin asset re-user who hasn’t a clue how to actually make a fun game doesn’t get to be on GOG. Never fear tho, Steam will accept the most horrendous indie devs no problem.

Also, as @lexluthermiester pointed out, Dex has been on GOG for 4 years. I’ve had it for 3.

In it’s current state, from all Ive read and watched, Heaven’s Vault SHOULD be on GOG. I’ve refrained from buying it on Steam because it seems like a perfect fir for adventure game fans on GOG. But again, I’m not on their game selection board, so....