Wednesday, November 30th 2011

AMD Still Committed To x86 - But Not In High End Desktop

Further to our article yesterday, that AMD was to give up competing with Intel, they have now made a statement which semi-clarifies their future strategy. AMD told The Verge, that they are still committed to x86, but have decided to concentrate on low power, emerging markets and the cloud:
AMD is a leader in x86 microprocessor design, and we remain committed to the x86 market. Our strategy is to accelerate our growth by taking advantage of our design capabilities to deliver a breadth of products that best align with broader industry shifts toward low power, emerging markets and the cloud.
This sounds very much like they are giving up competing with Intel in the high-end x86 CPU market, but will instead compete with the likes of ARM, NVIDIA, TI and Intel in the low power market. It doesn't seem like a good strategy however, not least because getting the power use levels of an x86 CPU right down to ARM levels and still have some semblance of performance seems to be an unachievable aim, as Intel has already found out. The problem is that the ancient and complex x86 instruction set dating from the late 1970s, requires complex decode logic and a bigger chip (more transistors) to implement. It also isn't very fast, which is why all the various "turbocharging" technologies and enhancements have had to be applied to it over the years to bring us the fast CPUs we see today. These are all very expensive on transistor budget, power and require a high clock speed. The fact that all modern x86 CPUs are actually hybrid x86 (32-bit) & x64 (64-bit) machines adds an order of magnitude to the problem, as they're almost two CPUs in one. Time will tell whether AMD were right to go down this road.
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87 Comments on AMD Still Committed To x86 - But Not In High End Desktop

#76
xenocide
Let me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.
Posted on Reply
#77
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Iintel lready charges $1000+ for highend chips that's pretty damn steep IMO I see that only going up. No they can't force you to upgrade every 6 months but people do constantly hell I was popping new chips in once a month not to long ago.
Posted on Reply
#78
Wile E
Power User
cdawallIintel lready charges $1000+ for highend chips that's pretty damn steep IMO I see that only going up. No they can't force you to upgrade every 6 months but people do constantly hell I was popping new chips in once a month not to long ago.
AMD also charges $1000 for high end chips when they can. Intel didn't raise the prices to $1000 when AMD couldn't compete anymore. Top end chips have always been right around the $1000 mark from both camps.

Seeing as AMD cannot compete up top, but Intel still charges the same for the top end as it did when there was competition up there, I'd say your assessment in incorrect.
Posted on Reply
#79
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Wile EAMD also charges $1000 for high end chips when they can. Intel didn't raise the prices to $1000 when AMD couldn't compete anymore. Top end chips have always been right around the $1000 mark from both camps.

Seeing as AMD cannot compete up top, but Intel still charges the same for the top end as it did when there was competition up there, I'd say your assessment in incorrect.
They have been slowly sneaking up originally we were seeing around $999 on release for a 990X. They are now $1199 on release day and still haven't dropped to $999 for a 3960X. While $200 in the scheme of things doesn't seem like much it does happen to be the cost of an entire Phenom X6. So they have gone up 20% in fact. Albiet intel's ARK lists $999 for both chips right now :/ who knows maybe they will stay the same. I honestly don't care anymore they don't offer enough performance benefits worth more than double the price of an average CPU.
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#80
mediasorcerer
WTF with taking sides? intel or amd=all good for the consumer= us, anyone get that?

Worst thing that could happen is one company having a total monopoly on chips.
Posted on Reply
#81
TheoneandonlyMrK
+1 n amen and all that bang for buck and anyway both companys have the ability to shine or suck asss i expect more shine from amd soon as trinity looks promising and thats still x86 and BD is selling out their not ,not going to make more are they.
Posted on Reply
#82
Unregistered
What no one is taking into account is the fact that there are several billion people in India, China, Brazil etc. who have no interest whatsoever in enthusiast hardware. They want basic access to information and smart phones only get you so far.

Here are some charts from Barclays and intel.


#83
Wile E
Power User
cdawallThey have been slowly sneaking up originally we were seeing around $999 on release for a 990X. They are now $1199 on release day and still haven't dropped to $999 for a 3960X. While $200 in the scheme of things doesn't seem like much it does happen to be the cost of an entire Phenom X6. So they have gone up 20% in fact. Albiet intel's ARK lists $999 for both chips right now :/ who knows maybe they will stay the same. I honestly don't care anymore they don't offer enough performance benefits worth more than double the price of an average CPU.
Retailers marking up the CPU has absolutely nothing to do with Intel raising prices. The MSRP is still $999. Intel has not changed what they charge. Retailers are just taking advantage of consumers. Car dealers do the same bullshit with in demand cars as well, but nobody blames the car maker when a car sells for $10k over sticker.

Some FX chips were going for $1200 or more back when AMD was on top, but the MSRP was still $1000.

Short version = you have not made a valid point.
Posted on Reply
#84
cdawall
where the hell are my stars
Wile ERetailers marking up the CPU has absolutely nothing to do with Intel raising prices. The MSRP is still $999. Intel has not changed what they charge. Retailers are just taking advantage of consumers. Car dealers do the same bullshit with in demand cars as well, but nobody blames the car maker when a car sells for $10k over sticker.

Some FX chips were going for $1200 or more back when AMD was on top, but the MSRP was still $1000.

Short version = you have not made a valid point.
And I admitted that.
Posted on Reply
#85
mastrdrver
xenocideLet me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.
There is another monopoly that happens outside of the one you listed. It happens when entrance in to the market is so high that it is out of the realm of any business to enter the market.
Posted on Reply
#86
qubit
Overclocked quantum bit
xenocideLet me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.
I think that's a really good explanation for why Intel needs to keep inovating, even without any competition and prices can't just keep shooting up. However, a monopoly would still allow them to price their products appreciably higher, even though tempered somewhat. I reckon they could get away with a 50% hike, quite easily.
Posted on Reply
#87
TheoneandonlyMrK
there are other fronts in this war, nvidia is pulling a 5core with gpu arm chip from somewhere soon and AMD has its APU,s allready in place with trinity on the way on die gpu assisted processing could easily make up the gap between what appears a low performance part into compareing against intels finest its about the software and optimisations these days and intel are doing nothing to assist their future leverage in an arm equiped world and with arm 64 on the way with hpc capabillities hmm interesting times
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