Thursday, January 26th 2012

Next-Gen Xbox Features Blu-ray, Will Not Play Used Games

We've got a good news and a bad news. The good news first: Microsoft will finally embrace the capacious Blu-ray disc format as its media of choice with its next-generation Xbox console. A double-layer Blu-ray disc provides 50 GB of space, letting developers load higher-resolution elements (such as textures), and more importantly, load entire games into a single disc. The 8 GB DVD9 used with Xbox 360 is posing limitations with some titles, forcing publishers to ship games in multiple discs. The new console should also double up as a nice Blu-ray home-video player, complete with multi-channel lossless audio and 1080p playback.

Now on to the bad news: Remember the good old days when you could share your game cartridges and discs with your friends, or resell them? Those are about to be numbered, at least in the case of the Xbox platform. Microsoft is designing its next-generation Xbox console in a way that restricts people from playing "used" games. We would imagine Microsoft doing this by binding each purchased game's activation to a Xbox Live account à la Steam, Origin, and G4WL. This is terrible news to services such as GameStop, which deal in used games and consoles.Source: Kotaku
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119 Comments on Next-Gen Xbox Features Blu-ray, Will Not Play Used Games

#1
eidairaman1
IIRC, MS had several games for PC that required CD to be in, I had a few no CD patches for those games so i could protect the disk. Same with COD4. Even Deus Ex was like that.

DannibusX said:
How does Steam do it better.

For one, it's a service that I use, and I agreed to the limitation of resale of games. I.E. it doesn't exist.

There is no physical media for me to worry about. Likely Microsoft's implementation will still require you to have the media in the drive to play the game.

I'm part of the 10% of folks who really don't give too big of a crap about console gaming. Sure, I do play games on the Xbox, but I really don't need to buy one to enjoy gaming. I'll build an HTPC and play games on my TV with a 360 controller. It works pretty damn good.
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#2
dlpatague
I thought Microsoft was counting on digital distribution and cloud storage becoming main stream and that they weren't worried about Blu-Ray or any optical storage at all. They might bring back HD-DVD for their consoles (not as in trying to make it a main stream disc format like before) from other rumors I've seen. As far as used games being not playable, I seriously doubt that would happen. But they go with the likes of the pay an extra fee to play a used game online. Who knows.
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#3
Syborfical
Optical Media is almost dead.

One reason I will never own or use a bluray is my passionate hatred for sony. it almost equals my hatred for EA.

The next Xbox Looks like another console I won't buy.

I borrowed a friends 360, couldn't find any games that where phun. They where okay but not phun like consoles use to be.

IMO most consoles just churn out mindless phun less games for profit.
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#4
ktr
Optical media is far from dead when the average internet speed is not fast enough and games are becoming bigger than ever. Considering the US alone, the average speed is ~5.8Mb/s, 58% of subscribers are below 5Mb/s, and 20% of that is below 2Mb/s.
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#5
BumbleBee
Syborfical said:
Optical Media is almost dead.

One reason I will never own or use a bluray is my passionate hatred for sony. it almost equals my hatred for EA.

The next Xbox Looks like another console I won't buy.

I borrowed a friends 360, couldn't find any games that where phun. They where okay but not phun like consoles use to be.

IMO most consoles just churn out mindless phun less games for profit.
are you a phreaker?
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#6
ViperXTR
i prefer optical media, the country i live in doesn't have the best net connections and are damn expensive. Internet capping is also one reason. Most of the recent games are massive and could easily hit the download limit.
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#7
faramir
LAN_deRf_HA said:
In the event MS "leaked" this rumor on purpose to test the waters on this idea I think its best to make as many extremely negative remarks as possible. Go nuts, go over the top. I doubt this will be a feature now considering the response it's gotten whether they ever considered it or not.
No need to go over the top - any person with an ounce of brainmatter will realize this is a commercial suicide. Games requite the medium (optical disc) to be inserted anyway in order to play so when one lends his medium to a friend he cannot play anymore himself ... and this is no different to lending the entire console with game license somehow tied to the specific bit of hardware.

If somebody came up with this "bright" idea for real they will be getting sacked pretty soon ... for real ;)
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#8
Lazzer408
It's like there challenging people to hack it.
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#9
MatTheCat
Nihilus said:
For Xbox 3 I was not planning on buying any games, just doing the gamefly deal. Doesn't look good for that plan.
It wont take long for the new X-box to be hacked whenever it comes out.....just do that and dont bother paying or renting to play any of the games and game free of console one player per copy limitations.

Aside from this ridiculous DRM, If that story about the AMD 6670 turns out to be true then Microsoft can stick thier X-Box 720 right up thier monopolistic ringpieces. For a Q4 2013 scheduled console, that would be a shockingly weak GPU regardless of any 'closed system' optimisations. My gut feeling is that so long as thier is a modicum of competition from Sony, then this report cannot be true as even if Sony opted to build thier PS4 around a HD 6850 level GPU (still very cheap to do), then the X-Box 720 is simply going to look really really bad and it will fail miserably....

.....if on the otherhand Microsoft know what the competition or lack of competition is, then anything is possible in terms of just how shitty they can get away with making thier new X-Box in order to maximise profit margins....and lets face it, if thier is nothing else then people will buy it.
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#10
Recus
MatTheCat said:
It wont take long for the new X-box to be hacked whenever it comes out.....just do that and dont bother paying or renting to play any of the games and game free of console one player per copy limitations.

Aside from this ridiculous DRM, If that story about the AMD 6670 turns out to be true then Microsoft can stick thier X-Box 720 right up thier monopolistic ringpieces. For a Q4 2013 scheduled console, that would be a shockingly weak GPU regardless of any 'closed system' optimisations. My gut feeling is that so long as thier is a modicum of competition from Sony, then this report cannot be true as even if Sony opted to build thier PS4 around a HD 6850 level GPU (still very cheap to do), then the X-Box 720 is simply going to look really really bad and it will fail miserably....

.....if on the otherhand Microsoft know what the competition or lack of competition is, then anything is possible in terms of just how shitty they can get away with making thier new X-Box in order to maximise profit margins....and lets face it, if thier is nothing else then people will buy it.
Maybe according to rumors MS will release weaker boxes first.?
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#11
NevadaPuma
"This is terrible news to services such as GameStop, which deal in used games and consoles."

It's also terrible news for gamers, both for consumer rights and monetary reasons.

Or it would be, if it were confirmed, which it isn't yet.

Also, while I see the many advantages to a system like Steam, I'm just not personally willing to surrender control over whether or not I can install and play games I buy, and resell them if I wish. This is why I don't use Steam.

Any mechanism that prevents me from selling or buying used games, or prevents me from installing a game without checking to see if it's okay with a server somewhere, is something I will not participate in, be it console or PC. I really hope that consoles don't go down this path.
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#12
tnn500af
If that is indeed true I will vote with my feet - kiss my money good by Microsoft.
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#13
Nihilus
Would an HD 6670 at least 4x powerful as the current XBOX? All it needs to do is play current games at 1080p with high settings. What I really what is multiple display outputs. It would be great to hook in 4 screens to one xbox and be able to play multi-player Xbox 360 games at 720p.
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#14
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
I'll believe the "No used games" thing when I see it. Rumors like this go around every new generation of consoles.
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#15
ktr
Nihilus said:
Would an HD 6670 at least 4x powerful as the current XBOX?
Hard to tell from old reviews because of different testing hardware and software. But I would say about 4x faster than the current Xbox360 GPU, which is PC equivalent to an ATI X1800XT.

I am going based off this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page3.asp

Considering the 6670 is close to performance to the 4850, which is close to performance to the 8800GTX.

And the 7900GT is close to performance to the X1800XT.
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#16
Super XP
No used games = No Thanks
HD 6670 = Already Obsolete = No Thanks
Blu-Ray based? I can care less. HD DVD on the other hand would be the BEST choice especially if they want to cut down on piracy.

Anyhow 1) Go buy a Blu-Ray player, game consoles are for gaming 2) also a major drawback about using old graphics is the bloody lazy developers porting games onto PC.

Govern youself accordingly MS or you'll end up with a flop :D
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#17
newtekie1
Semi-Retired Folder
Super XP said:
Go buy a Blu-Ray player, game consoles are for gaming
That is like saying my gaming PC shouldn't be used for browsing the internet, it is just asinine.

In todays market a game console should do way more than play game, they should be essentially a HTPC. In fact I use my PS3 for watching movies far more than I use it to actually play games. Not including a Blu-Ray player would be a shot in the foot.
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#18
NevadaPuma
newtekie1 said:
I'll believe the "No used games" thing when I see it. Rumors like this go around every new generation of consoles.
True. However, it's becoming more and more obvious that it's exactly the sort of move that companies would make if they can get away with it, and they keep getting away with more and more. It is a fact, not a rumor, that Sony has taken out a patent on such technology (Patent #6,816,972). Obviously they haven't used it yet, but it's undeniable that they've at least thought about it, which is already a discouraging step.

So while I will also believe it when I see it, I'm also on the watch for it, because it wouldn't surprise me at this point. Unfortunately.

And everyone keep in mind; they only get away with stuff like this if we keep buying it.
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#19
GunsAblazin
Where's a hacker when you need one?

If you can have your account on multiple systems that would solve the loaning problem, but would it still kill used sales - unless you're willing to give out your account information when you sell it. If this is the way it's going to be, I expect prices to drop dramatically since developers will "finally" be getting 100% of the sales - unless hackers have something to with it.

This is the type of thing they do with software all the time and it's not such a big deal. The problem is games have traditionally came on disks which can't be played without it; now that it's available in digital form games are essentially just software and can be exploited in the same ways (pirating, hacking etc.). Used game sales really aren’t the problem. Publishers choose to attack that market because they can more easily solve that issue.
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#20
Mega-Japan
ktr said:
Hard to tell from old reviews because of different testing hardware and software. But I would say about 4x faster than the current Xbox360 GPU, which is PC equivalent to an ATI X1800XT.

I am going based off this: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/call_of_duty_4_demo_performance/page3.asp

Considering the 6670 is close to performance to the 4850, which is close to performance to the 8800GTX.

And the 7900GT is close to performance to the X1800XT.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, the WiiU's GPU is based off the 4890, and if you're telling the "720" is going to be as powerful as the 4850, this would be quite the turn of events. At the very least no "Sorry, can't port the game because the system isn't powerful enough to handle it" like the current gen.


newtekie1 said:
That is like saying my gaming PC shouldn't be used for browsing the internet, it is just asinine.

In todays market a game console should do way more than play game, they should be essentially a HTPC. In fact I use my PS3 for watching movies far more than I use it to actually play games. Not including a Blu-Ray player would be a shot in the foot.
I wholeheartedly agree. It's like saying I shouldn't do anything with my phone besides placing calls, granted that it is its "main purpose", even though people nowadays text more than they call.

I've had my PS3 for a couple of years now. Never planned on owning one, but got it as a gift (personally would never buy a SONY product). Until last year when I bought Mortal Kombat, I never even had a game for the thing, and used it exclusively to watch Blu-Ray movies.
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#22
ktr
Mega-Japan said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but last I checked, the WiiU's GPU is based off the 4890, and if you're telling the "720" is going to be as powerful as the 4850, this would be quite the turn of events. At the very least no "Sorry, can't port the game because the system isn't powerful enough to handle it" like the current gen.
Wii U is based on a custom R770, which is either the 4830/50/70. The 4890 is R790. So probably around the same ball park in terms of GPU performance.

Regardless, both next-gen consoles are disappointing in specs.
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#23
Mega-Japan
ktr said:
Wii U is based on a custom R770, which is either the 4830/50/70. The 4890 is R790. So probably around the same ball park in terms of GPU performance.

Regardless, both next-gen consoles are disappointing in specs.
Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's, hardly anything new. Nobody is expecting a 6990 inside the WiiU or PS4. I actually think a console with the performance of a 4870 isn't THAT bad, considering it was a top-of-the-line GPU just a few years back.
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#24
CrAsHnBuRnXp
BumbleBee said:
Mortal Kombat is awesome.
+1mil
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#25
ktr
Mega-Japan said:
Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's, hardly anything new. Nobody is expecting a 6990 inside the WiiU or PS4. I actually think a console with the performance of a 4870 isn't THAT bad, considering it was a top-of-the-line GPU just a few years back.
You are incorrect with the "Consoles have ALWAYS been behind PC's when it comes to GPU's."

For example, 360 was released on November 2005 with a GPU equivalent to a X1800XT, which was released on Oct 2005 on the PC. On top of that, Xenos had unified shader, which was introduced with the R600 as early as mid-2007. Hardly behind. If anything, it was ahead.
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