gopalDo you really think that this card can compete HD 7850 or HD 7870 or GTX 560TI

Dude! wait for the release. :banghead:

BenetanegiaGF104 was actually bigger than GK104 so even if the price for a 28nm wafer is 20% higher than when 40nm was new (as reported by rumors),

While what we’ve heard, there also TSMC's change in business model, which charges fabless customers "per wafer manufactured", rather than "per working chip yielded"?

If Nvidia plays it's cards right they need a $160-ish card that gets above the GTX560Ti, while then at just over $200 a better what the GTX570 offered. AMD and partners will release the 7850 with 1Gb and will back-filling the hole between the 7770 and 7850 2Gb. While AMD will wait to see how Nvidia wedges them between the $200-300 before considering pricing of 7870, which still would make money even at $220-240.

gopalWill it even compete the HD 7850?

It might performance wise, but it’s not any threat working a sub $250 price tag! AMD will flood the market with 1Gb 7850 and $180 pricing with rebate’s after that. Nvidia with bring the GK107 GT650 DDR5 “non Ti” for $140, which won’t even come close to 7770’s.

IF this card can be bought for >$200 by X-Mas i'll be surprised.

CasecutterIt might performance wise, but it’s not any threat working a sub $250 price tag! AMD will flood the market with 1Gb 7850 and $180 pricing with rebate’s after that. Nvidia with bring the GK107 GT650 DDR5 “non Ti” for $140, which won’t even come close to 7770’s.

Do you have a time machine to tell about the future?:laugh:
Can you tell about me?

Btw, What you mean by GT650?

CasecutterIt might performance wise, but it’s not any threat working a sub $250 price tag! AMD will flood the market with 1Gb 7850 and $180 pricing with rebate’s after that. Nvidia with bring the GK107 GT650 DDR5 “non Ti” for $140, which won’t even come close to 7770’s.

IF this card can be bought for >$200 by X-Mas i'll be surprised.

Then prepare yourself to be surprised soon lol.

And I want that crystal ball too.

gopalDo you have a time machine to tell about the future?:laugh:
Can you tell about me?

Btw, What you mean by GT650?

Well, you asked?... and that's what's called an opinion, estimation, judgment, outlook etc. All anyone’s got.

That’s what Green Marketing needs to call the GK107 part with DDR5, GTS will be a stretch while GTX is degrading the brands nomenclature.

While these aren’t authorized numbers here’s what the 660Ti is said to be providing. And that’s on what is said to be on GK104 192-Bit. This is saying 650Ti (GK106) 192-bit. If these B-M are accurate you should be able un-earth what one might envisage.

www.tweaktown.com/reviews/4869/nvidia_geforce_gtx_660_ti_2gb_reference_video_card_review/index1.html

BenetanegiaThen prepare yourself to be surprised soon lol.

We may well be mid-end October… because this said 4th Qtr! "We wait" the continuing saga of Kepler... talk... talk... talk! :roll:

BenetanegiaWith current architecture 960 SPs seems odd. 5 SMX would mean asimetrical blocks. Also only one SKU is not normal.

If this card is true, my theory about plain GTX660 being based on GK106 and GK106 being a 1152 SP (instead of 768 SP) chip just gained a lot of plausibility. 6 SMX, 3 into each block as is known to be the case in GK110. GTX650 Ti would be the same chip with one SMX disabled and would come later (Q4) because that's been the case with every cut down version as of late.

The other specs we've seen are probably the equivalents of the GTX460 SE and GTX 460 768MB, mostly low volume filler cards.

My 2 cents.

That was like 0.00000001 cents to me
Why don't you make your usual calculations and compare it to HD 7850 ?? will it be better?
:D thank you in advance.

N3M3515Why don't you make your usual calculations and compare it to HD 7850 ?? will it be better?

Yes "surprised" could spun either way… you’re so Romney–esque! Go on the record man... :toast:

N3M3515That was like 0.00000001 cents to me
Why don't you make your usual calculations and compare it to HD 7850 ?? will it be better?
:D thank you in advance.

The short answer is yes, I think the 960 SP part will be faster than HD7850.

Sadly I only have 2 data points to work with and they are not even clear ones. 670 and 680 are almost identical when using the same clocks. That makes it imposible to make any calculations, it seems that the chip is ok with just 1344 SP, but it might also be ok with 1152 or we might start seeing a decline (most probably but...). Or some decline could be happening on the GTX670 except it's so small we count it as margin of error and we can't really see it until we see it compared to how the 1152 part scales. I cannot even rely on other parts like geometry or texture filtering because GK104 has twice as much as GF110, meaning it has twice asmuch as required for a card in that performance gap, so even if we loose 25% it won't matter and I'd expect the same for GK106. Only shaders seems to affect or ROP/BW.

As a rough calculation, comparing 960 SP vs 1344 SP, it's 71% (ROP/BW is better at 75%) so mixing in a small non linear scaling on the shaders and giving ROP/BW some preference, I'd go simply with 75% of a 670. Since I'm assuming this to be GK106 with one SMX disabled, I'll just disregard any clock difference and assume the crippled GK106 will be clocked the same as crippled GK104.

What ever happened to the second best card being in the $250 range? I paid to $250 for my GTX 260 and that seemed pretty reasonable. Now that get's you fourth place.

LAN_deRf_HAWhat ever happened to the second best card being in the $250 range? I paid to $250 for my GTX 260 and that seemed pretty reasonable. Now that get's you fourth place.

When the 260's first arrived they were $400 and those were the 192sp variant, have a little patience we're getting there.

I, for one, enjoy the speculation people are putting out there. Most of it seems feasible and I find it interesting.

In theory, with what we know and assuming it has a similar config to GK104, 5 SMX would have ppc between 7850 and 7870 (ala 1120 radeon cores), closer to 7850 in the way that 660ti is slightly closer to 7950 than 7870 but still pretty much directly in the center...if that makes sense.

The competition probably comes with the possible TDP. While 680 has a tdp of 190 and can be adjusted to use ~225w, 670 has a tdp of 170 and can use ~200w, 660ti has a tdp of 150 and can perhaps use 170-175. The evolution of this means 660 will probably be ~130/150 and 550ti ~110/130. With less rops and bw, which are not really needed in this market, the 192-bit chips should have more core clock room that a competing AMD part at the same tdp. 7800 series has a max tdp (powertune) of 130/170w respectively, and while that doesn't matter for 7870 (170w is essentially free-reign for overclocking) it does put an artificial limitation on 7850 that this card will probably capitalize on.

So, estimation is that it will have slightly more ipc than 7850, use similar power (130W at max overclocked), and probably clock better...maybe in the typical higher-end ~1180+ than the lower-end ~1080. It still ends up being directly between the two Pitcairn parts as 7870 has more ipc and can clock similar/higher, and 7850 has less ipc and will not clock as high, but has a little more bandwidth to even it out a little.

I agree by the time this thing launches 7800 series will be cheap...180/200/250 (or less for 7870) does sound realistic. One would hope this would launch for ~$200+ and be a better alternative to 7850, while overclocking to around 7870 performance.

Maybe not copy pasted but he asked the same thing about the GTX 650 which is laughable. Speculating about performance based on architecture is fun and all, but it is always hard to tell where the bottleneck is. So wait for the reviews!

Here's the one thing that isn’t being discussed about GK106; at this point it has only one SKU (GTX650Ti) associated to it and it’s indicated as sub $250.

They'd almost assuredly need another model(s) to use up the lower (or higher) chips. If the 650 "non-Ti" is a GK107, could the lower GK106 part be a GTX650 be an "SE" variant? Those are traditionally lower than a regular so that makes no sense, unless the GK107 get a GT or GTS? While they use a higher performance part as the GTX660 "non-Ti"? I think that would almost need to be the case, because they'll need homes for the kind of volume that segment produces.
GT640 – GTS650 = GK107 <$150
GTX650 – GTX650Ti – GTX660 = GK106 $150-275
And the GTX660Ti – GTX670 – GTX680 – GTX690 = GK104 $300 up.

CasecutterHere's the one thing that isn’t being discussed about GK106; at this point it has only one SKU (GTX650Ti) associated to it and it’s indicated as sub $250.
They'd almost assuredly need another model(s) to use up the lower (or higher) chips

Probably depends on what performance you're (Nvidia) is looking at. It wouldn't surprise me to see a salvage part as an OEM only ( a la GT 645) or a late season addition (GTX 560 448SP). A GTX 660 (non-Ti) of 768 shaders (half a GK 104) must be a distinct possibility*. It's not a given that GK106 came back from the foundry as some kind of performance king- likewise performance, yield and adaptability for GK 104 may have been a pleasant surprise. Any drop in expected performance- but retaining the power usage or BoM, pretty much nullifies its usability. It wouldn't suprise me if Nvidia tweaked GK104 to GK114 and then (relatively) simply halved the die (GK116?) if there were issues with GK 106 -and coming this late in the first generation development cycle something is amiss surely.

GK107 will most certainly be suffixed GT (with maybe a GTS for the "top part"). GK 107 also includes a GT 630 and a large proportion of the mobile family ( 640M, 650M, 660M).

* GTX 660 as GK 106. I knew I'd read about it somewhere.

Is there going to be a GTX 665 like the GTX 465?

DarkOCeanWhen the 260's first arrived they were $400 and those were the 192sp variant, have a little patience we're getting there.

Are we? If the 5xx series is any indication there won't be any price drops until the cards are EOL.

LAN_deRf_HAAre we? If the 5xx series is any indication there won't be any price drops until the cards are EOL.

Hello Can any one ans mine?

gopalIs there going to be a GTX 665 like the GTX 465?

No one here is a fortune teller gopal. There is not a single annoucement on any of that.
The GTX465 was a limited edition card that came in small quantities and got replaced very fast.

When the hell is the 660Ti gonna drop?

DarkOCeanWhen the 260's first arrived they were $400 and those were the 192sp variant, have a little patience we're getting there.

Where were you living... under a rock!
The Original GTX260 (192sp) released 6/16/2008 and then not even 10 days later the 4870 came out... and wham! At $300 the 4870, to use others phrases "clean the GTX260 clock". In the Diamond 4870 review of June 30th W1zzard could even bring himself to show the GTX260 (shown at the time at $450) in the review!
www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Diamond/HD_4870/1.html

It got so bad so Nvidia and AIB partners where compelled to send out checks reimbursing those first buyers to the tune of between $60-125. I was such an embarrassment that Nvidia went all hands on deck to get the "Core 216" release in exactly 3 months achieving parity in price while still performance waned in like the newer titles like Quake4.
www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphics/display/20080716072242_EVGA_and_XFX_Reimburse_Price_Difference_on_GeForce_GTX_200_after_Price_Collapse.html

And just months ago the GTX680 was "some great coup" over a 7970; 3-1/2 months behind and 10% less for only small performance here and there? That's nothing compared to 10 days and 25%. While nobody was needing to send any hush money…
:slap:

gopalIs there going to be a GTX 665 like the GTX 465?

Are you serious? Why the hell would they?! The 465 was worse in every way compared to the 460 and that was why it was phased out. It was louder, hotter, more expensive to make all at around the same performance as the newer 460.

gopalHello Can any one ans mine?

No because it was a stupid question. Yeah, there are such things despite what your teacher told you. :slap:

NihilusAre you serious? Why the hell would they?! The 465 was worse in every way compared to the 460 and that was why it was phased out. It was louder, hotter, more expensive to make all at around the same performance as the newer 460.



No because it was a stupid question. Yeah, there are such things despite what your teacher told you. :slap:

I like to get thiss :nutkick: more then this :slap:
Can you edit it please?

Not sure if a teacher would kick their students in the nuts but whatever works for you. :nutkick:

CasecutterWhere were you living... under a rock!
The Original GTX260 (192sp) released 6/16/2008 and then not even 10 days later the 4870 came out... and wham! At $300 the 4870, to use others phrases "clean the GTX260 clock". In the Diamond 4870 review of June 30th W1zzard could even bring himself to show the GTX260 (shown at the time at $450) in the review!
www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Diamond/HD_4870/1.html

It got so bad so Nvidia and AIB partners where compelled to send out checks reimbursing those first buyers to the tune of between $60-125. I was such an embarrassment that Nvidia went all hands on deck to get the "Core 216" release in exactly 3 months achieving parity in price while still performance waned in like the newer titles like Quake4.
www.xbitlabs.com/news/graphics/display/20080716072242_EVGA_and_XFX_Reimburse_Price_Difference_on_GeForce_GTX_200_after_Price_Collapse.html

And just months ago the GTX680 was "some great coup" over a 7970; 3-1/2 months behind and 10% less for only small performance here and there? That's nothing compared to 10 days and 25%. While nobody was needing to send any hush money…
:slap:

I know but that doesnt change the fact that they asked so much for those cards at that time.

CasecutterWhere were you living... under a rock!

That was unnecesary.