$900!?!?!...for that!?!?! No thanks..I'll be buying another laptop for that price.

The Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based Windows 7 tablet and Samsung Series 7 Windows 7 (Core i5) tablet series pricing were slightly more expensive then the Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets. So a price break is already there.

People suggesting The Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets should be cheaper seem to think or suggest that products like this never existed before or are unprecedented when they are in fact only the latest generation.

Or perhaps you are confusing them with cheaper less powerful ARM based tablets,…

Easy Rhinodon't forget that you immediately lose 16 GB of space due to the bloated OS. for the price, you should just buy a 64GB ipad 3 and get a much better display with a slicker OS, better battery life and better graphics performance.

www.techspot.com/news/50717-microsoft-surface-trounced-in-browser-benchmarks-ipad-3x-faster.html

This statement isn’t completely accurate or possibly outright wrong. You are likely confusing the Windows RT based Microsoft Surface tablet with the as of yet unreleased Surface Pro Windows 8 Pro tablet.

The average Windows 8 Pro 64bit install footprint is likely greater then 16GB. The Windows 8 Pro 32bit install footprint may fit into a 16GB envelope but I don’t think OEMs will choose to go that route. However, if the Microsoft Surface Pro is anything like the Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based tablet PC then the installed mSATA SSD is user upgradeable. I can upgrade the default OEM 64GB mSATA SSD on my Asus model to ~240GB / ~256GB or greater. I can also upgrade the Bluetooth / WiFi module to support IEEE 802.11ac,….

OctaveanThe Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based Windows 7 tablet and Samsung Series 7 Windows 7 (Core i5) tablet series pricing were slightly more expensive then the Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets. So a price break is already there.

People suggesting The Microsoft Surface Pro and other Windows 8 Pro tablets should be cheaper seem to think or suggest that products like this never existed before or are unprecedented when they are in fact only the latest generation.

Or perhaps you are confusing them with cheaper less powerful ARM based tablets,…



This statement isn’t completely accurate or possibly outright wrong. You are likely confusing the Windows RT based Microsoft Surface tablet with the as of yet unreleased Surface Pro Windows 8 Pro tablet.

The average Windows 8 Pro 64bit install footprint is likely greater then 16GB. The Windows 8 Pro 32bit install footprint may fit into a 16GB envelope but I don’t think OEMs will choose to go that route. However, if the Microsoft Surface Pro is anything like the Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 based tablet PC then the installed mSATA SSD is user upgradeable. I can upgrade the default OEM 64GB mSATA SSD on my Asus model to ~240GB / ~256GB or greater. I can also upgrade the Bluetooth / WiFi module to support IEEE 802.11ac,….

All of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.

RavenasAll of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. The Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.

Once again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.

I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.

MathraghOnce again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.

I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.

No. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.

RavenasNo. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.

By definition, a tablet is just that; a tablet. Its just a form factor, noone dictates you on what you should do with it. But ofc, you can just keep believing whatever you want to believe.

RavenasAll of this doesn't matter what so ever. The fact is Windows 8 tablets are priced way too high. People are going to by the iPad long before they ever buy these simply because of price point. Microsoft had a great idea to have the same UI across all of their devices, but they are dead in the water due to price.

Too high for who,....?

And there are plenty of people who say the iPad is priced too high.

And there are plenty of people who would never by a PC in tablet form.

And so on,….

And so forth,…

The relevance of which is up to the individual,….

We are still going back (unfortunately) to the comparison of Windows 8 PC tablets to ARM devices. They are simply not the same, they don’t perform the same way and they often don’t cost the same. There is room in the market for more then just one type of tablet. In the PC market you pay for powerful hardware and you typically pay even more for powerful hardware in a smaller package then you would in a larger one. This is one reason many people dislike the trend towards mobile computing. But in that direction the industry is going and some say it will be the end of the PC as we know it.

For what its worth, there are Atom based PC tablets that are closer in price to ARM based tablets (~$600+ish). Maybe even Core i3 based tablets,….

Older gen Windows 7 tablets could probably be found for less,...

MathraghOnce again, comparing the iPad to the surface pro is totally useless, unless you plan to grossly misuse the surface pro(or RT for that matter) for just singletasking mediaconsumption programs.

I dont understand why people keep complaining about some comparison that is flat out wrong. The Surface pro strong point is something the iPad, or any android tablet cannot even do, let alone compete with, so any comparison on that front is useless.

I agree with this sentiment 100%

RavenasNo. The surface is being advertised as a table. Thus the comparison is completely fine.

With this statement you are making it seem as if there is no distinction between the Surface, Surface Pro, Windows RT, Windows 8 and any tablet that runs the respective OSes.

Surface Pro is a 10.6" touch-screen ultrabook. An example competitive product is the Dell XPS 12 Ultrabook and Apple MacBook Air.

Surface is a 10.6" tablet. An example competitive product is the Dell XPS 10 Tablet and Apple iPad.

OctaveanWith this statement you are making it seem as if there is no distinction between the Surface, Surface Pro, Windows RT, Windows 8 and any tablet that runs the respective OSes.

Yeah, that's what most customers who walk into the store going to believe. Thanks to MS muddying up the confusion further with their non-x86 RT tablet.

naoanYeah, that's what most customers who walk into the store going to believe. Thanks to MS muddying up the confusion further with their non-x86 RT tablet.

I agree that the average uninitiated (inexperienced / unaware / ignorant / barely computer literate) consumer will have a tough time distinguishing between the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro as well as Windows RT and Windows 8. Some people will never get it and that is partially why dummed down ARM devices are so popular.

I expect that TPU forum members as well as other tech forums will be better informed though,…..

Use of the term or name “Surface / Surface Pro” in general is a bad idea IMO because it confuses the issue and makes people think of it as a singular product like the iPad which it is not.

OctaveanI agree that the average uninitiated (inexperienced / unaware / ignorant / barely computer literate) consumer will have a tough time distinguishing between the Microsoft Surface and Surface Pro as well as Windows RT and Windows 8. Some people will never get it and that is partially why dummed down ARM devices are so popular.

I expect that TPU forum members as well as other tech forums will be better informed though,…..

Use of the term or name “Surface / Surface Pro” in general is a bad idea IMO because it confuses the issue and makes people think of it as a singular product like the iPad which it is not.

What you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.

The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.

I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.

RavenasWhat you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.

The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.

I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.

With all due respect, I think you intended to say:

“I know what Windows RT and Windows 8 Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well).”

However I can only guess you didn’t understand my post because I was only suggesting that people who take the time to read and post in tech forums will likely be able to tell the difference and that general consumers probably wouldn’t.

Microsoft may have released full specs on the Surface Pro but I don’t recall seeing a full spec sheet. For example, “Intel Core i5 Ivy Bridge CPU” doesn’t specify a model and CPU model would be a factor in overall price. This wouldn’t matter if there is only one Core i5 Ivy Bridge mobile CPU though (i5-3360M, i5-3320M, i5-3427U).

Furthermore your suggesting that OEM’s will release Windows 8 Pro tablets and laptops and undercut the pricing suggests that you are unaware that OEM’s have already released products. For what its worth there is a range (Atom, i3, i5 and for laptops i7) but the pricing is similar to Microsoft’s offering in the Surface Pro for similar OEM hardware in the same form-factor. An example of this is Acer Iconia Tab W700 series, Acer Iconia Tab W500 series, Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro XE500xx, Samsung ATIV SmartPC Pro XE700xx,….

As I stated before though, when you shrink the product you often pay more money with respect to processing power. So comparing a general 17”, 15” or 13” laptop to a sub 11” screen PC touch tablet isn’t the same thing.

RavenasWhat you don't understand, which it seems like you never will is this: I know what Windows RT and Windows Pro are (and most other members of this forum do as well). You don't have to keep explaining what the differences are to every user as soon as they create a post that is negative in regards to Surface Pro. You seem to be trying to "gain credibility" by listing off specs that are easily found and commonly known.

The Surface Pro is overpriced for what it is.

I can get an i7 laptop that is extremely light and extremely thin for less than this. OEMs are going to start installing Windows 8 Pro on there own forms of tablet/laptops and then begin raping Microsoft on this price point.

Look at the links I provided above. Surface Pro is priced competitively for ultrabook/tablet. Yes, you can get old fashion laptops for less and better equiped but it isn't an old fashion laptop.

FordGT90ConceptLook at the links I provided above. Surface Pro is priced competitively for ultrabook/tablet. Yes, you can get old fashion laptops for less and better equiped but it isn't an old fashion laptop.

True, much smaller screen, less everything for the price.
configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=fncwl44h&model_id=inspiron-15r-5520&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

Less than 800$. 3rd gen I7, bigger screen, more ram, more everything. This ain't old tech.

No touch screen. 33.5mm thick versus 13.5mm. People aren't going to look at Surface Pro (and similar products) unless they determine a touchscreen is absolutely required.

DrmarkTrue, much smaller screen, less everything for the price.
configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=fncwl44h&model_id=inspiron-15r-5520&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19

Less than 800$. 3rd gen I7, bigger screen, more ram, more everything. This ain't old tech.

I'd rather pay the extra couple for the Surface Pro and get better build quality and a nicer design rather than risk it with that Dell. Specs aren't everything (unless you absolutely don't care about how the device looks/feels).

Dos101I'd rather pay the extra couple for the Surface Pro and get better build quality and a nicer design rather than risk it with that Dell. Specs aren't everything (unless you absolutely don't care about how the device looks/feels).

Actually I have heard of some Microsoft Surface (Windows RT) tablet build quality issues and some type / touch cover keyboard issues,….

One can only hope that the Surface Pro (Windows 8 Pro) tablet and accompanying type / touch cover keyboards do not have such problems when released.

www.zdnet.com/microsoft-admits-surface-keyboard-splitting-problem-7000007189/

I don’t really care for the kickstand design of the Surface / Surface Pro or the type / touch cover. It seems like a gimmick that isn’t altogether practical (at least not on ones lap). I prefer the keyboard dock design of the Asus Transdformer series with battery, USB ports, angle options (unlike a kickstand) and sturdy base / keys.

Also, for what its worth, its not clear to me if some of the cheaper Intel Atom based Windows 8 tablets have Windows 8 rather then Windows 8 Pro,….not really sure.

The Acer Iconia W510-1674 is comparatively cheap on the Windows online store at $499 but it is expensive for the specs IMO. Intel Atom Z2760 1.50 Ghz CPU (boo!), 2GB DDR2 RAM, 1366 x 768 resolution screen and so on,….isn’t very attractive IMO. Such specs aren’t really comparable to the specs we have seen of the Surface Pro as well as similar OEM Windows 8 Pro tablets.

OctaveanActually I have heard of some Microsoft Surface (Windows RT) tablet build quality issues and some type / touch cover keyboard issues,….

One can only hope that the Surface Pro (Windows 8 Pro) tablet and accompanying type / touch cover keyboards do not have such problems when released.

www.zdnet.com/microsoft-admits-surface-keyboard-splitting-problem-7000007189/

I don’t really care for the kickstand design of the Surface / Surface Pro or the type / touch cover. It seems like a gimmick that isn’t altogether practical (at least not on ones lap). I prefer the keyboard dock design of the Asus Transdformer series with battery, USB ports, angle options (unlike a kickstand) and sturdy base / keys.

Also, for what its worth, its not clear to me if some of the cheaper Intel Atom based Windows 8 tablets have Windows 8 rather then Windows 8 Pro,….not really sure.

The Acer Iconia W510-1674 is comparatively cheap on the Windows online store at $499 but it is expensive for the specs IMO. Intel Atom Z2760 1.50 Ghz CPU (boo!), 2GB DDR2 RAM, 1366 x 768 resolution screen and so on,….isn’t very attractive IMO. Such specs aren’t really comparable to the specs we have seen of the Surface Pro as well as similar OEM Windows 8 Pro tablets.

I know some of the touch keyboards have had issues, but it always looked like to me that the number of actual defective tablets were well within reason (every consumer electronic product in existence has some level of defective units).

In regards to the kickstand design, I can see how for some people it serves no purpose, but I've been able to make it work, even on my lap while sitting on my couch (though typing on the type keyboard can be a little hit or miss if it's not sitting on something solid). But luckily there are many other tablets/convertibles to choose from, so you can usually find one to suit your needs.

I've never been impressed by Intel Atom devices. They've always been too slow for what I want to do while sucking up too much power.

Dos101I know some of the touch keyboards have had issues, but it always looked like to me that the number of actual defective tablets were well within reason (every consumer electronic product in existence has some level of defective units).

In regards to the kickstand design, I can see how for some people it serves no purpose, but I've been able to make it work, even on my lap while sitting on my couch (though typing on the type keyboard can be a little hit or miss if it's not sitting on something solid). But luckily there are many other tablets/convertibles to choose from, so you can usually find one to suit your needs.

I've never been impressed by Intel Atom devices. They've always been too slow for what I want to do while sucking up too much power.

Fair enough,…

Thanks for sharing that firsthand info on the Surface. I’m partial to Asus products so if I were to buy a Windows 8 Pro tablet I would probably go for an Asus model if possible (maybe not though ;)). However, I did like the Acer Iconia W700 line but losing the one feature that made it standout in the retail product (AKA Intel Thunderbolt) was a little puzzling. In theory you could have connected a desktop GPU to the Acer Iconia W700 had it retained Thunderbolt support,….and more expansion options,….

Ultimately, I’m OK without a keyboard dock or built in way to keep the tablet upright. I’m fine with my Asus Eee Slate EP121 Core i5 tablet for now (comes with its own folio case) and have installed Windows 8 Pro RTM on it since I have a Technet subscription (although I did buy a Windows 8 Pro license).

I've never been impressed with Intel Atom devices either,…...