Thursday, June 4th 2015

NVIDIA Could Capitalize on AMD Graphics CoreNext Not Supporting Direct3D 12_1

AMD's Graphics CoreNext (GCN) architecture does not support Direct3D feature-level 12_1 (DirectX 12.1), according to a ComputerBase.de report. The architecture only supports Direct3D up to feature-level 12_0. Feature-level 12_1 adds three features over 12_0, namely Volume-Tiled Resources, Conservative Rasterization and Rasterizer Ordered Views.

Volume Tiled-resources, is an evolution of tiled-resources (analogous to OpenGL mega-texture), in which the GPU seeks and loads only those portions of a large texture that are relevant to the scene it's rendering, rather than loading the entire texture to the memory. Think of it as a virtual memory system for textures. This greatly reduces video memory usage and bandwidth consumption. Volume tiled-resources is a way of seeking portions of a texture not only along X and Y axes, but adds third dimension. Conservative Rasterization is a means of drawing polygons with additional pixels that make it easier for two polygons to interact with each other in dynamic objects. Raster Ordered Views is a means to optimize raster loads in the order in which they appear in an object. Practical applications include improved shadows.
Given that GCN doesn't feature bare-metal support for D3D feature-level 12_1, its implementation will be as limited as feature-level 11_1 was, when NVIDIA's Kepler didn't support it. This is compounded by the fact that GCN is a more popular GPU architecture than Maxwell (which supports 12_1), thanks to new-generation game consoles. It could explain why NVIDIA dedicated three-fourths of its GeForce GTX 980 Ti press-deck to talking about the features of D3D 12_1 at length. The company probably wants to make a few new effects that rely on D3D 12_1 part of GameWorks, and deflect accusations of exclusivity to the competition (AMD) not supporting certain API features, which are open to them. Granted, AMD GPUs, and modern game consoles such as the Xbox One and PlayStation 4 don't support GameWorks, but that didn't stop big game devs from implementing them. Source: ComputerBase.de
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79 Comments on NVIDIA Could Capitalize on AMD Graphics CoreNext Not Supporting Direct3D 12_1

#1
Kaotik
Saying "GCN doesn't support" is bad to start with, considering that GCN is already compromised of 3 separate generations with different featuresets.
Current GCN generations, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 are indeed limited to Feature Level 12_0, but that doesn't mean all GCN generations will be.
((there's slight change 1.0 would be limited to 11_1, but several sources suggest it can do 12_0, too))
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#4
Assimilator
Kaotik, post: 3292537, member: 101367"
Saying "GCN doesn't support" is bad to start with, considering that GCN is already compromised of 3 separate generations with different featuresets.
Current GCN generations, 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 are indeed limited to Feature Level 12_0, but that doesn't mean all GCN generations will be.
((there's slight change 1.0 would be limited to 11_1, but several sources suggest it can do 12_0, too))
Have to agree - this article is low on facts and high on clickbaity title.
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#5
15th Warlock
This is so confusing, the other day I read in this forum that GCN supports DX12 _3 all the way to ver 1.1, and now this seems to contradict that, all these DX12 feature levels are making my head spin, I mean, can someone please clarify what's going on with that? :(
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#6
Devon68
This greatly reduces video memory usage and bandwidth consumption.
Well yeah but AMD has plenty of both especially with the new HBM cards, so I see no issues with this.
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#7
Xzibit
15th Warlock, post: 3292553, member: 36"
This is so confusing, the other day I read in this forum that GCN supports DX12 _3 all the way to ver 1.1, and now this seems to contradict that, all these DX12 feature levels are making my head spin, I mean, can someone please clarify what's going on with that? :(
According to Microsoft DX 12 presentations Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Even Intel iGP is 12_1 capable.
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#8
15th Warlock
Xzibit, post: 3292557, member: 105152"
According to Microsoft DX 12 presentations Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Even intel iGP is 12_1 capable.
Thanks, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic, I've read about 390X supporting feature level _12, which wasn't even mentioned before, can you please help me understand about all these feature levels? Thank you
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#9
Fluffmeister
15th Warlock, post: 3292553, member: 36"
This is so confusing, the other day I read in this forum that GCN supports DX12 _3 all the way to ver 1.1, and now this seems to contradict that, all these DX12 feature levels are making my head spin, I mean, can someone please clarify what's going on with that? :(
From an interview with Robert Hallock, Head of Global Technical Marketing at AMD, maybe he doesn't know either! LOL.
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#10
Xzibit
15th Warlock, post: 3292561, member: 36"
Thanks, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic, I've read about 390X supporting feature level _12, which wasn't even mentioned before, can you please help me understand about all these feature levels? Thank you
Here is the video from Microsoft saying Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Also gives explanation to Tiers

Advanced DirectX12 Graphics and Performance

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#11
Random Murderer
The Anti-Midas
Xzibit, post: 3292557, member: 105152"
According to Microsoft DX 12 presentations Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Even Intel iGP is 12_1 capable.
15th Warlock, post: 3292561, member: 36"
Thanks, you seem to be very knowledgeable on this topic, I've read about 390X supporting feature level _12, which wasn't even mentioned before, can you please help me understand about all these feature levels? Thank you
Xzibit, post: 3292565, member: 105152"
Here is the video from Microsoft saying Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Also gives explanation to Tiers

Advanced DirectX12 Graphics and Performance

Regardless of what this FUD article states, the only GPUs currently in production that can run DX12 tier 3 are GCN-core GPUs. Maxwell tops out at tier 2, and Fermi, Kepler and Intel integrated fall into tier 1. I can't believe how NV is trying to spin this considering their GPUs and drivers are going to have to emulate certain DX12 features that GCN supports on-metal, like conservative rasterization(one of the key features this article mentions).






Bottom line: We're all going to have to wait for Win10 and some DX12.1 software to sift through all this crap we're being fed about compatibility.
Posted on Reply
#12
NC37
Xzibit, post: 3292565, member: 105152"
Here is the video from Microsoft saying Tier 1 = DX 12_1. Also gives explanation to Tiers

Advanced DirectX12 Graphics and Performance

nVidia must be terrified of Fury if they are running this scared and attempting to deceive consumers about DX12. 6/16 is looking even more interesting.
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#13
the54thvoid
I don't read German so I can't read the source article but it's not Nvidia saying it. Is it? Is the German article alluding to a fact not of Nvidia's fabrication or is it pertaining to Nvidia's heavy PR on the feature set Maxwell focusses on?
Can someone clarify without any brand bias? Obviously I can see the charts posted but has AMD stated in any press deck that they dont support tier 1?
In other use words to simplify, who the f@ck said GCN doesn't support it?
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#14
Random Murderer
The Anti-Midas
the54thvoid, post: 3292576, member: 79251"
In other use words to simplify, who the f@ck said GCN doesn't support it?
This.
Until we get a solid source, this is just FUD.
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#15
Fluffmeister
This is a good article, they indicate Feature Levels have different Tiers within them, for example:
From what we have been told DX12 Feature Level 12.0 supports tiled resources, bindless textures, and typed UAV access.

....

From what we gather with DirectX 12 is that you have have tiled resources support in DX12 Feature Level 12.1, but then have different Tiered Levels within that Feature Set. Confused yet? Microsoft and NVIDIA aren’t talking about the Tier Levels that are within the Feature Levels just yet, but a quick glance at the DirectX Caps Viewer in the public builds of Windows 10 will show mention of tier levels.
Everything looks as expected, but we noticed that the Tiled Resources are shown as tier 3. This appears to confirm that Feature Level 12.0 has at least three tiers of options within the feature set. The whole point of having features and tiers is so the software guys know how to code things and it looks like that just got tougher from what we can tell.
So in short, it's perfectly reasonble to assume AMD support DX12_0, up to Tier 3, Tier 3 doesn't automatically mean they support DX12_1

Read more at http://www.legitreviews.com/geforce-gtx-980-ti-dx12-feature-level-and-tier-details_164782#TdG5DzvvlYrloE41.99
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#16
midnightoil
Wow, btarunr runs another load of anti-AMD FUD that's COMPLETELY unsubstantiated, and I'm pretty sure he knows for the most part is bare-faced lies. Colour me unsurprised.
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#17
Random Murderer
The Anti-Midas
midnightoil, post: 3292583, member: 93439"
Wow, btarunr runs another load of anti-AMD FUD that's COMPLETELY unsubstantiated, and I'm pretty sure he knows for the most part are bare-faced lies. Colour me unsurprised.
A year ago, I would have defended btarunr, but the amount of stuff like this that has started being posted on the front page is just asinine. I read TPU news for NEWS, not FUD.
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#18
Fluffmeister
Gee so much hate.... at the end of the day why worry guys, with AMD having a monopoly on the console market, devs will always target the lowest common denominator. :p
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#19
Octopuss
What kind of nonsense is this? Dx12 is not even out yet.

edit: Oh this is btarunr who posted this. Not buying into his Nvidia bullshit anymore.
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#20
erixx
Î never cared a flying hoopla when AMD had DX 11.1 (or .2 or whatever) and my Geforce not.
Let both of them capitalize on solid working products.
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#21
Devon68
This is the person that made the best argument here:
What kind of nonsense is this? Dx12 is not even out yet.
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#22
Kaotik
For all those confused about "tier 3" and whatnot:

Feature tiers and Feature Levels are completely different things
Several features have 3 different tiers, depending on hardware capabilities Card X supports Tier 1, Tier 2 or Tier 3 of feature X or Y or whatever

Feature Levels, however, are different. Feature level x may require that certain feature is supported at Tier 2 for example, but that doesn't mean that a card supporting Tier 3 on that feature would meet all the other requirements of that Feature Level.

GCN's (1.1 and 1.2 for sure, 1.0 probably) support Feature Level 12_0.
They may support some features at higher Tier than for example Maxwell does, but they still lack the required features for Feature Level 12_1, and those features they might support at higher Tier aren't required for 12_1.
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#23
Random Murderer
The Anti-Midas
Kaotik, post: 3292611, member: 101367"
GCN's (1.1 and 1.2 for sure, 1.0 probably) support Feature Level 12_0.
They may support some features at higher Tier than for example Maxwell does, but they still lack the required features for Feature Level 12_1, and those features they might support at higher Tier aren't required for 12_1.
GCN 1.0 was confirmed DX12-compliant.
And the point I was bringing up is that two of the features specifically mentioned in this article that GCN supposedly doesn't support, it does at a hardware level, unlike anything(except latest Maxwell) NV has, specifically tiled resources and conservative rasterization. Regardless of tier, these are DX12_1 features, and they are supported on-metal by GCN, which directly contradicts this "news" article.
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#25
GC_PaNzerFIN
I suspect these "Feature levels and x.1 supports mean as much as they have had in the past. Absolutely nothing. Never had any benefit whatsoever, but AMD and NVIDIA PR sure fires off ton of slides always.
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