Saturday, July 2nd 2016
Official Statement from AMD on the PCI-Express Overcurrent Issue
AMD sent us this statement in response to growing concern among our readers that the Radeon RX 480 graphics card violates PCI-Express power specification, by overdrawing power from its single 6-pin PCIe power connector and the PCI-Express slot. Combined, the total power budged of the card should be 150W, however, it was found to draw well over that power limit.
AMD has had out-of-spec power designs in the past with the Radeon R9 295X2, for example, but that card is targeted at buyers with reasonably good PSUs. The RX 480's target audience could face troubles powering the card. Below is AMD's statement on the matter. The company stated that it's working on a driver update that could cap the power at 150W. It will be interesting to see how that power-limit affects performance.
AMD has had out-of-spec power designs in the past with the Radeon R9 295X2, for example, but that card is targeted at buyers with reasonably good PSUs. The RX 480's target audience could face troubles powering the card. Below is AMD's statement on the matter. The company stated that it's working on a driver update that could cap the power at 150W. It will be interesting to see how that power-limit affects performance.
"As you know, we continuously tune our GPUs in order to maximize their performance within their given power envelopes and the speed of the memory interface, which in this case is an unprecedented 8 Gbps for GDDR5. Recently, we identified select scenarios where the tuning of some RX 480 boards was not optimal. Fortunately, we can adjust the GPU's tuning via software in order to resolve this issue. We are already testing a driver that implements a fix, and we will provide an update to the community on our progress on Tuesday (July 5, 2016)."
358 Comments on Official Statement from AMD on the PCI-Express Overcurrent Issue
A 180W TDP GTX 1080 has a 225W power supply.
A 150W TDP GTX 1070 has a 225W power supply.
A 170W TDP RX 480 has a 150W power supply....
See the difference? The RX 480 was exceeding the limit without OCing too, which makes this "oversight" epic in terms of being bad for the consumer.
I'm certain those people who have smoke their motherboards really think this whole tihng has been blown out of proportion.
AMD RX 480 NERF incoming btw.
Take the llano APUs. The mobile variants pulled 1.3V at their non turbo clock, and 1.415 volt for full boost clock. Seeing those things hit above the base clock was like seeing a unicorn.
Lo and behold, AMD used super relaxed settings to try and boost yields. Most, although not all, APUs could be undervolted. And I dont mean the -50mv that you get out of a mobile i7. You could typically get -350mv off of the core, while running at a much higher speed. For instance, my A6-3400m could do 2.1 GHz at 1.0375 volt, compared to 1.4GHz at 1.3 volt at stock. I could hit the 2.3 GHZ boost clock with 1.1 volt, compared with the 1.415 volt that the stock boost needed. And this was common, a huge number of llano chips acted this way, with only the rare model actually needing that much voltage to stay stable.
So it wouldnt surprise me if AMD could undervolt most 480s without difficulty. How they would do that in a driver is beyond me, but the headroom may be there.
That is NOT a good solution.
Like Cadaveca said, I think it was a driver cockup as well from the beginning and that's also one of reasons why cards actually perform kinda bad, because they go over the limit while they shouldn't be doing that. They were tested for stock operation and tuned for that. Including the fan profile. Card heats up more than it should for the factory fan profile, making it thermal throttle as well as hitting power limit.
Lets just wait for the damn promised fix and then evaluate it. Damn, AMD makes a statement and instead of people acknowledging it and waiting for the fix, they keep on dramatizing about it. Why we never see that for NVIDIA? Everyone bunch of fanboys and NVIDIA stock owners? Apparently...
The 5 +12V pins on the card and in the slot are simply not meant to carry that much.
This can only be fixed by having the VRM-in completely split, so that the PCI-E Slot and PCI-E External power are separated. Meaning, if there are 6 power phases, feed one, maybe two of them from the slot, and the rest from the external connector. This the only way to limit slot consumption.
Also SLC vs MLC is not just performance difference. If I am not mistaken SLCs are considered as having better longevity. The same applies to the 970. It is not just those slow 500 MBs. Also less cache, less ROPs, less memory bandwidth. Specs where completely wrong and we shouldn't be giving any excuses to companies. Google Bumpgate + Nvidia. That's a low that AMD probably will never reach. Also I bet you haven't downloaded a single Nvidia driver the last 12 months, considering that you still talk about drivers. Well I think McCoy's words about this argument would have been "It's dead Jim". I guess they thought that there are just too many "600W PSUs" costing $20 out there.
What AMD should have done was to lock the GPU at a specific frequency and say "Sorry guys, you will have to buy a custom if you want overclocking". Or they could just offer only a 4GB reference version at $199 and let AIBs made the 8GB cards. 4GB less GDDR5 on board could also help in lowering power consumption.
The video: www.twitch.tv/buildzoid/v/75850933?t=53m40s
Apparently if RX480 would draw those extra 16W from 6pin all would be pink and fluffy. But PCIe oh noes everyone running around losing their shit. Ever thought the fix might involve just that? Limiting power to actual 150W or drawing more power from 6pin? But no, lets generate even more unnecessary drama. When NVIDIA fucks up, everyone gets defensive to stupendous levels. AMD fucks something up, everyone loses their shit and creates so much drama around it even Venezuelan soap operas look shy in comparison... Por favor!
600W, £17.24 inc. VAT
I think there are more (quantity) dangerous PSUs out there, than motherboards. And those PSUs will not go alone to the afterlife. They will take other parts of the hardware with them. Probably the motherboard too. This is the only excuse for AMD choosing the PCIe bus over the 6pin power connector I can think of. Of course I still believe that they have no excuse for the whole mess.
Its kind of strange how people are going crazy about this, but those same people overclock the crap out of their parts and run out of spec. How do you think we can overclock our shit without our computers blowing up?? Because the hardware is designed to handle more than the spec allows.
This is a non-issue for 99.9% of people unless you have a crappy cheap motherboard from 2005. Any graphics card update can stress an old motherboard, same with other parts like a PSU. A motherboard is most at risk of dying after a major hardware upgrade when it is old.
AMD are releasing a driver update anyway just to shut people up.. If I had a 480 I wouldnt want the driver update, I'd prefer they leave it alone.
Ordinarily, you'd look @ the PSU for higher wattage needs but, with this card, you can have a ... say ... 1000W PSU and STILL have problems simply because the PCI-e is using more power then it should. This could end up with the motherboard's PCI-e slot's contacts burned because, unlike the 6/8 pin connectors, they are NOT made to overclock.
i'm expecting the release of aib with 8 pin to be sure that i'll buy a correct card.
It's BECAUSE it's drawing more then it should that this is a problem to begin with.
Let me give an example. Look @ 2 cards that draw 180W:
- card A: 70W from PCI-e + 110W from 6 pin connector
- card B: 85W from PCI-e + 95W from 6 pin connector
Both cards are out of spec BUT one can end up burning your motherboard (worst case scenario) while the other should not: can you tell which one?
Thankfully the fix is somehow easy but it's going to be a two part fix as far as I can tell seeing the quoted videos.
1) The fix AMD is going to push via drivers. This will likely set the power limit to 150w and call it a day. Not different from setting it yourself on Wattman.
2) A bios update to curb the PCIe power delivery to 75w and let the rest of the power come from the PCIe slot. The VRM phases are capable of outputting 40w each so there should be no issue for doing this.
The second one is trickier but AMD could potentially release and automatic bios flash tool and label it as a beta driver or hotfix or something.
Why this happened in the first place? I would like to know if all the cards have the same bios version on them. AMD says that the card shouldn't be behaving that way so I have the feeling that there are some 480s out there with a 50/50 power split bios.