Friday, July 7th 2017

On Cryptocoins: I think I know why Satoshi Nakamoto Hides

To all you out there wondering why you can't get a GPU for gaming at a reasonable rate, or why we are using record numbers in energy usage to mint so called "toy money," depleting our planets energy in the process, I have a bit of a statement to make as a former miner and "part of the problem" so to speak.

I'm sorry, it wasn't supposed to be this way. None of it was supposed to go down like this.

That probably requires some justification, yes? I mean mining is an inherently energy expensive operation, right? Well, yes and no, respectively. Yes, it requires justification, and that's precisely because mining is NOT an inherently energy expensive operation, despite public perception. It has become that way due to human greed, and nearly everything bad to come from cryptocurrency has decidedly come from that group: humans. Cryptocurrency is not inherently responsible. The inventors, pioneers, and early miners such as myself never anticipated what was to come, and we did not intend it to be this way. Bitcoin was intended to do good, and in the end, it wasn't cryptocurrency that screwed it all up, it was humans. Human greed, particularly.
In the early days of cryptocurrency, Bitcoin was the only player in town, and supply was supposedly fixed and regulated. We (we being the early miners, and to an extent it's anonymous creator, using the pseudonym Satoshi Nakamoto) did not anticipate so many new players and the "infinite money" problem we face today. We also didn't have much of a network in terms of energy use. Mining was done largely on what I imagine to be a few hundred or thousand (I have no idea what the exact numbers were frankly, I doubt anyone does) computers around the globe. We didn't use GPUs, we used CPUs, and at least in the early iterations it was largely done on a single thread/process. When I started mining, things were already in flux. Someone had made a GPU-miner, and suddenly, the cost-to-benefit ratio went way up. You see, with CPU systems it did not make economic sense to make "farms" because with 1P consumer hardware, it took a whole system per miner, and even quad cores were still really expensive then (2P and 4P systems were around, but cost almost more than 2 cheap 1Ps). GPUs changed that. GPUs obsoleted the CPU "farm-limiting" expenses by allowing miners to strap on as many as 4-6 GPUs per system, and with the CPU irrelevant, they could make the rest of the system very cheaply. Suddenly, the only part that really cost anything was the GPU, and cost-to-benefit ratio went way up. You could mine much more way cheaper. And since it was only one part that was really needed anymore (and lots of that part), the GPU market took a huge hit, as did the energy market.

When I started mining, this impact was still not clear. I entered the market as a miner when Bitcoin was about $20.00 per coin. I began my mining adventure on the CPU of an old Pentium M notebook before quickly learning this was uneconomical, and made approximately 0.02 bitcoins over the course of a week, worth then only 40 cents. The only exchange at the time, MtGox, would not even let me withdraw such a measly amount, and so it sat in their online wallet until MtGox would collapse in the later days of Bitcoin. Interesting to note, if I still had those .02 bitcoins, they'd be worth over 40 dollars today, but ah, thus is the nature of cryptocurrency.

That's the other problem with cryptocurrency, and again, it isn't actually a problem with cryptocurrency itself, but people. People are unreliable. You give your coins over to someone random on the internet, it isn't really the fault of cryptocurrency when it vanishes. This is a very human issue. When people use cryptocurrency to buy drugs online, it too isn't cryptocurrency's fault nor was it our goal for it to be used that way. It is the users fault, the human element again is to blame.

At any rate, I won't go much more into my own mining shenanigans, except to say I got into it big before getting out entirely sometime in the next Bitcoin crash. It has let me look at things somewhat levelheaded with the latest energy figures coming back showing the true cost of the new GPU miners, and such. (ASICs on Bitcoin's part make whole systems even cheaper and more exclusive, so that doesn't help things either). But this wasn't how it was supposed to be. Bitcoin was never supposed to be cheap to mine. Mining was supposed to be a reward for supporting the network on your CPU in your downtime, like a BOINC screensaver. Nothing more, nothing less. If Bitcoin made one huge mistake, it's in trusting people to not abuse the system. It was in trusting humans, not in its goals. Its goals were good. I mean a good cheap money transport for the masses is not an inherently bad thing, right? People ruined that, not cryptocurrency.

I no longer believe in Bitcoin, but I still believe in cryptocurrency. Why? Well, let's look at where Bitcoin went wrong, first.

First off, Bitcoin's Proof of Work algorithm is too simple. It's a glorified SHA hash (which is very, very computationally cheap) done over and over, which honestly, was asking to have an ASIC made for it from day 1. The fact that it didn't become an energy pig sooner is surprising, to be frank. Human greed will always seek more than its fair share, and it was way too easy to facilitate that with Bitcoin's simplistic Proof of Work algorithm. If Bitcoin is a drug, it is both dealer and enabler.

Second, Bitcoin was too trusting. Bitcoin gives people anonymity, and then trusts people to be responsible with it. I believe people to be basically good, but there are always those who are bad and will abuse a system like this. It needs a decentralized name registry, to give people more traceability and identification on the network. I don't believe a truly anonymous cryptocoin will ever have a place here for long, at least not outside the criminal underworld.

What do we need? We need a coin that doesn't trust people. People are the weak link. We need a computationally complex coin that runs on CPUs and restores that old status quo the early bitcoin days enjoyed, that limits the impact of farming and thus, energy usage on our planet. This same coin maybe could even do something with those CPU cycles, what I don't know, but meaningless numbers has always rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe something that contributes to BOINC or similar projects, I can't say. I'm not an architect, more of a philosopher a this point if you will.

I guess what I want you to walk away from this with is the realization that despite the fact that cryptocurrency is here to stay in some form or another, it is not inherently evil. Some of the incarnations of it right now are just plain bad, and I believe Bitcoin is already dying even if it won't be apparent for years (I believe regulation from the government will finally kill it, honestly). But Bitcoin is NOT cryptocurrency in whole. Cryptocurrency is an idea, an idea to provide a cheap money transport free of swipe fees and instability to the masses. Bitcoin failed at this, failed massively on several fronts (it's not cheap as it eats tons of energy for no reason, and it's massively unstable). But I think someday, a coin will take these ideals and improve upon bitcoin, and truly make the world a better place. If only people will give it a chance, and not associate it with the great failure of Bitcoin in its original goals. Maybe it can happen. Maybe.

In closing, I'd like to say I think I know why Satoshi Nakamoto hides. I think he is ashamed of what he has created, of what his child has become. He entered it with what I honestly believe was the best of intentions to improve the world for the better, and what happened? Looking on it now, can you blame him for hiding? Would you want credit for this? I wouldn't.
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98 Comments on On Cryptocoins: I think I know why Satoshi Nakamoto Hides

#76
yotano211
Prima.VeraWe should really thank all those dedicated crypto mining factories in China, US, Korea for destroying any chance the normal average Joe would make any substantial profit with a PC only.
As you said the human greed is the worst enemy of humanity.
bitcoinworldwide.com/mining/china/
Human greed is everywhere
Posted on Reply
#77
R-T-B
yotano211Human greedy is everywhere
Which is why we really need a coin that is not as I put it "both dealer and enabler"

I don't blame people on these forums trying to make a quick buck. But someday, this has to change... I hope sooner than later.

I don't have all the answers. This post is only meant to provide you a window into a past mindset. And for all you screaming "how could you not know?!?!?!," well, hindsight is 20/20 people. You have the advantage there.
Posted on Reply
#78
yotano211
R-T-BWhich is why we really need a coin that is not as I put it "both enabler and dealer"

I don't blame people on these forums trying to make a quick buck. But someday, this has to change... I hope sooner than later.

I don't have all the answers. This post is only meant to provide you a window into a past mindset. And for all you screaming "how could you not know?!?!?!," well, hindsight is 20/20 people. You have the advantage there.
The only way to change is to delete the human race.
Something to make a quick buck always comes along every so often. Remember what happened 9 years ago with real estate.
Posted on Reply
#79
R-T-B
yotano211The only way to change is to delete the human race.
Something to make a quick buck always comes along every so often. Remember what happened 9 years ago with real estate.
You CAN make something that doesn't inherently cater to their weaknesses so well.

I agree something else will fill the gap though.
Posted on Reply
#80
Rockarola
Vayra86Excuse me sir RTB

But... we didn't see it coming??? Are you mental? 'When I started mining the impact wasn't quite clear'... well you lack some serious insight in anything outside of your own attic then. There's a whole world out there you know? I'm sorry to be so harsh, but that sentence right there disqualified any faith I still have in anything else you wrote. It contains so much naive, I can't even get to grips with it. And you came to terms with yourself and became 'level headed' after a few Bitcoin value ups and downs. Wow... just wow.

The only good thing about Bitcoin is the blockchain tech and that is something we will keep seeing in the future and is a great tool to have especially in a world where digital security matters.

The cryptocurrency by definition and by the way it is mined, should die off really quickly, but validation through blockchain is something that will essentially save us loads of effort and in turn, energy compared to the current way we handle transactions.

Bitcoin was never about power to the people or removing the fat banks and decentralizing control. If you believe this, go eat your tin foil hat. Already the blockchain is being monetized and analyzed by banks worldwide. They will make it theirs, and that's all she wrote.

Oh and this bullshit about proof of work... you're not working, you're just using shitloads of energy to let a machine do processing. The work you do, is paying your energy bill and pressing the on button. Its one of those things that people who sit behind a computer love to think of as work, and it has become some weird form of self fulfilling prophecy for them. Get a life... before that bubble bursts and you'll be back to zero. And about BOINC and putting it towards science - sure, that's all fine, as long as you don't monetize it. Its just like so many other things people just 'like to do' because of emotional reasons - they work as such, and die off once you monetize it.
Are you really that dense?
"proof of work" does not mean "proof you've earned your blisters" it simply means "proof that your computer worked on this hash"
If simple concepts like that needs to be explained, perhaps you should read up on the subject before you comment...or are you just trying to illustrate your (misinformed) point?
Posted on Reply
#81
Basard
Human greed, eh?

So putting a few GPUs into a server rack is greed now? If somebody wants to give me a real physical asset in exchange for a 'bitcoin' that I 'mined' by clicking on the 'go' button on my computer; how can that be considered greed?

It's opportunistic at most--human ingenuity at it's best/worst.
Posted on Reply
#82
Rockarola
Joss@R-T-B

I'll pass on your sickening Marxist positioning and the obvious contradictions on your text; let me just forward some bad news:
your knowledge of the monetary and financial system is null, and digital currency can only be understood in this context. When you're familiar with concepts like the Gold Standard, money as a commodity, Fiat money, fractional reserve banking, money supply... then we can have a chat.
As to the power consumption and the safe of the planet .... :laugh:
Marxist?
Economic theory is like gravity, you can argue the details all you want but it won't slow your fall.
Calling a post Marxist tells us a lot more about you than it does about the post...why don't you enlighten us poor fools, instead of just attacking?
Posted on Reply
#83
R-T-B
BasardHuman greed, eh?

So putting a few GPUs into a server rack is greed now? If somebody wants to give me a real physical asset in exchange for a 'bitcoin' that I 'mined' by clicking on the 'go' button on my computer; how can that be considered greed?

It's opportunistic at most--human ingenuity at it's best/worst.
The "greed" comes in when you have a desire to have way more than your fair share, ala the bitcoin mining farms in China and such.

If everyone mining was mining with 6 GPUs or less, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
RockarolaMarxist?
Economic theory is like gravity, you can argue the details all you want but it won't slow your fall.
Calling a post Marxist tells us a lot more about you than it does about the post...why don't you enlighten us poor fools, instead of just attacking?
Lol, it's ok, I've been called a Marxist two times now and it made me win a personal (money-free) bet with another editor here. Yay!
Posted on Reply
#84
Basard
I can't believe that even paper money has lasted as long as it has. I make a certain amount of money an hour and for what I can buy in return--I'm just glad to be alive in such a time.... It's amazing the amount of tech that a paper dollar can buy, let alone a bitcoin.

But what does it all really DO for us? Other than ALL of our thinking....
R-T-BIf everyone mining was mining with 6 GPUs or less, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Why would you mine with six GPUs when you could mine with seven? Are you dumb? (lol jk man) It's not greed to do such a thing, just opportunity..... Now if you beat up your neighbor and steal his GPU, then that's greed.
Posted on Reply
#85
yotano211
BasardI can't believe that even paper money has lasted as long as it has. I make a certain amount of money an hour and for what I can buy in return--I'm just glad to be alive in such a time.... It's amazing the amount of tech that a paper dollar can buy, let alone a bitcoin.

But what does it all really DO for us? Other than ALL of our thinking....


Why would you mine with six GPUs when you could mine with seven? Are you dumb? (lol jk man) It's not greed to do such a thing, just opportunity..... Now if you beat up your neighbor and steal his GPU, then that's greed.
I think thats assault and theft. Greed is way different from that.
Posted on Reply
#86
MrGenius
yotano211The only way to change is to delete the human race.
I couldn't agree more. ;)
Posted on Reply
#87
cuneytcam
There are many seeds of negative feelings among people of the world, any kind of tool to serve humans like cryptocurrency can be turned into twisting negative energy pumping events. This is all human originated but it is not enough to explain. There are wicked people out there who abuses feelings of people to make act them this way, but they make very good preprations(perception play) so the chances become you will likely act as they wish (gaslighting).

Staying firm and holding your ground fixes this chaos but instead we chase new smartphones and millions mroe products like zombies. Guess we stay firm to be a simple zombie who cannot have shred of self-control.
Posted on Reply
#88
daehxxiD
I personally also feel very uncomfortable about the momentary Cryptocurrency hype... now this might ACTUALLY be marxist, but I really think the system needs some way to define an upper limit of possible mining by one actual person.

Otherwhise you will have the same unbalance as you've had before. Some control the vast amount of coins, and in return can totally control its availability and as such worth. All goes back to being centralized, only that now its not anything being regulated by a fairness-based institution. Then again, guess its just fair that those who have the money now, can have even more power/money in the future. That's how the system as a whole works after all.
Posted on Reply
#89
cuneytcam
R-T-BThe "greed" comes in when you have a desire to have way more than your fair share, ala the bitcoin mining farms in China and such.

If everyone mining was mining with 6 GPUs or less, we wouldn't be having this conversation.



Lol, it's ok, I've been called a Marxist two times now and it made me win a personal (money-free) bet with another editor here. Yay!
I will have to make a fix there,

Not guarenteed to not have this conversation if everyone mines with 6- GPUs however "just and mutual respect" as you might have implied comes with strong family/social/constitution which are fundementaly based on human mind and its desires. We have to change as persons to reach peace, to make that change we need to make compromises. This is the part we fail horribly, we just do not want give an inch of what we desire. I do not believe we are at a point of understanding this whole proccess. To see the truth we need to have inverted CPTSD (complex post-traumatic stress disorder) cocktail which definetaly comes with WWs. I prefer to make change over time by controlling my desires instead of having a WW to make a hard-change because you can guess the pictures of next WW.
Posted on Reply
#90
Basard
yotano211I think thats assault and theft. Greed is way different from that.
Well, it's theft and assault..... caused by greed.
R-T-BIf everyone mining was mining with 6 GPUs or less, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Sorry I'm gonna have to quote this again. And I'm also sorry to take it so literally, but if EVERYBODY were mining with 6 GPUs then we'd ALL be earning how much money? Like forty bucks a month profit (I'm guessing)? My guess would be everybody's rent would go up forty dollars a month to make up for all the new 'free' money that everybody has.


My main point is I guess this: If crypto-currency is so great, why isn't EVERYBODY plugging in a bunch of GPUs and retiring? The whole thing is silly as hell.

I'll leave this post.... before we all start really arguing over what a fair share is.
Posted on Reply
#91
r9
We are nothing but parasites.
Posted on Reply
#92
yotano211
BasardWell, it's theft and assault..... caused by greed.
Thats still assult and theft. Greed, like when I travel to your city of Oshkosh, WI for the EAA airshow and the houses around the airport charge $20 for parking on their lawn when EAA charges $10 per day for parking. Greed is not when I go punch out the house owner in the face for overcharging me for parking. I still love that airshow, money well sent.
ahahaa
Posted on Reply
#93
R-T-B
BasardWell, it's theft and assault..... caused by greed.


Sorry I'm gonna have to quote this again. And I'm also sorry to take it so literally, but if EVERYBODY were mining with 6 GPUs then we'd ALL be earning how much money? Like forty bucks a month profit (I'm guessing)? My guess would be everybody's rent would go up forty dollars a month to make up for all the new 'free' money that everybody has.


My main point is I guess this: If crypto-currency is so great, why isn't EVERYBODY plugging in a bunch of GPUs and retiring? The whole thing is silly as hell.

I'll leave this post.... before we all start really arguing over what a fair share is.
To clear things up "everybody" meant "everyone presently mining." And yes, in this boat it would basically pay your electric + a bit for helping. That's how it used to be. That's how it was supposed to remain.

Cryptocurrency was never supposed to be good for the miner. It was supposed to reap the end user benefits, and pay the miners electric, nothing more.
r9We are nothing but parasites.
Posted on Reply
#94
Totally
Dante UchihaI am baffled by the lack of knowledge of the author... -_-

Dude, there are millions of people earning money in exchanges - every day. Cryptocoins has much greater value variation than shares. for example:

I buy 10000 Neoscoin @ 0.0001 = 1 BTC
And Sell 10000 @ 0.002 = 20 BTC

Yes, that's right, over 50000 USD. Bitcoin is the future.
That's just speculation, nothing to do with mining other than that the commodity you are trading happens to be btc.
Posted on Reply
#95
R-T-B
TotallyThat's just speculation, nothing to do with mining other than that the commodity you are trading happens to be btc.
Actually, I'd argue the commodity he was betting on was really Neoscoin. So maybe Neoscoin is the future by his logic. :laugh:
Posted on Reply
#96
Vayra86
RockarolaAre you really that dense?
"proof of work" does not mean "proof you've earned your blisters" it simply means "proof that your computer worked on this hash"
If simple concepts like that needs to be explained, perhaps you should read up on the subject before you comment...or are you just trying to illustrate your (misinformed) point?
Perhaps you need to do some better reading, because this is exactly what I'm also saying it is. If anything is lost on people here, its lost on you, including the meat of my post.

Other than that, thanks for letting us now your POV as well, and adding to this topic... don't let the toxin bite you.
cdawallDD/MM/YYYY is how his country does it. Therefore it is the right way
Starting with months only to go back to days and then years never made any sense to me either.
Posted on Reply
#97
SPLWF
This guy explains Mining and it's consequences best.

Posted on Reply
#98
Totally
Company #2 is someone from Amd because it's the literally the same exact statement the company made when a 6000/7000 series couldn't be found after it was discovered gcn was really good at mining.
Posted on Reply
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