Sunday, August 9th 2020

As AMD Ryzen 4000G Kept Out of DIY Retail Channel, Bootlegging of OEM Parts Takes Over

AMD's decision to not launch its Ryzen 4000G "Renoir" Socket AM4 processors in the DIY retail channel has baffled many in the PC enthusiast community. The parts are now exclusively in the OEM channel, however bootlegging of these chips out of the tray is rampant in Asia. A Hong Kong based eBay seller listed several 4000G SKUs, such as the flagship Ryzen 7 PRO 4750G, at a premium.

Apparently trays of 4000G chips - which aren't even supposed to end up with SI (system integrators), and only with big OEMs (think Compal, Foxconn, Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc), have somehow made their way to Asia's PC retail malls, where they're sold piecemeal, and at a premium. You pay for a chip, and the storekeeper pops one out of the tray and hands it over to you, straight up. Don't want to deal with its pins? Why not bundle it with a compatible motherboard from the same retailer, who will install the chip on the socket for you? Listings such as this one, are fraught with all the risks of bootleg commerce - the chip comes with no warranties, and the seller accepts no returns. Your only protection against getting a paperweight in your box is PayPal. It's time AMD put an end to this bovine defecation with a retail launch.
Sources: momomo_us, hexus.net
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38 Comments on As AMD Ryzen 4000G Kept Out of DIY Retail Channel, Bootlegging of OEM Parts Takes Over

#1
windwhirl
Thinking about it, don't Ryzen CPUs have their serial numbers etched on the IHS surface?

It would be interesting if AMD kept track of which customer bought which batch of CPUs, so that they could track down who spilled these to those guys.
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#2
Rob94hawk
Smart move by AMD. Now they'll sell like hotcakes cause 'you can't have them' ;)
Posted on Reply
#3
Searing
i mean, Asus rolled out an update that made it work with my motherboard... might as well sell it at retail
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#4
windwhirl
Rob94hawk
Smart move by AMD. Now they'll sell like hotcakes cause 'you can't have them' ;)
The extra money doesn't go to AMD. It's all for the guy selling it on eBay or wherever.
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#5
Crackong
I saw a photo of them retailing these chips with an AMD style CPU package ( The little package of CPU you find inside the retail box, with the Ryzen sticker )
Then the package is bundled with a reference cooler with plastic wrap
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#6
Xex360
Why don't AMD sell those directly, not enough supply?
Edit: brainfart, I wrote seek.
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#7
Totally
Xex360
Why don't AMD seek those directly, not enough supply?
Why would anyone buy Ryzen 5, and low tier 7, if these were made retail?
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#8
thesmokingman
Totally
Why would anyone buy Ryzen 5, and low tier 7, if these were made retail?
This. These will show up on fleabay, er already are but the scalpy prices yuck.
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#9
Camm
Whilst we are at it, Retail availability of Pro SKU's would be appreciated, it'd make building AMD servers with ECC on an AsRockRack board much easier.
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#10
R0H1T
btarunr
It's time AMD put an end to this
Quick question ~ how? The chips are probably very limited in quantity atm & any retail launch will result in severe shortages!
btarunr
A Hong Kong based eBay seller
Just as an aside :ohwell:
Posted on Reply
#11
TheLostSwede
Camm
Whilst we are at it, Retail availability of Pro SKU's would be appreciated, it'd make building AMD servers with ECC on an AsRockRack board much easier.
I thought all AMD CPUs support ECC, it's just that the board makers needs to support it in the UEFI as well.
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#12
john_
This was a correct decision from AMD considering their restrictions in manufacturing. AMD just can't build enough Ryzen, EPYC and Renoir as fast as needed to cover everyone, consumers AND OEMs. Putting more CPUs/APUs/SOCs on selves right now is not the best idea. A Renoir could be sitting in a store far away from the person who really wants to buy it. There are plenty of options for us consumers out there. Making a few products OEM only I think it's both smart and a necessity for AMD.
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#13
silentbogo
I doubt that's a permanent decision. Bristol ridge used to be OEM-only, even when the first batch of 300-series boards hit the shelves. Then eBay got flooded with those, as soon as HP Pavilion owners started to upgrade to Ryzen, and few months after they went retail.
All I'm trying to say, is - patience is a good virtue.
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#14
Valantar
Totally
Why would anyone buy Ryzen 5, and low tier 7, if these were made retail?
These APUs aren't any faster than current CPUs - in fact, testing from Tom's hardware makes them out to be slightly slower (at least in gaming - might be the first real, conclusive example of PCIe bottlenecking in real life, given that these only have a PCIe 3.0 x8 for the GPU). The iGPU is unbeatable though, so I'm putting one in my HTPC as soon as they become available.

dGPU gaming in 1080p:

Competitive in CPU performance though:

Posted on Reply
#15
Tomorrow
Searing
i mean, Asus rolled out an update that made it work with my motherboard... might as well sell it at retail
All 500 series boards should support them assuming the manufactures has released compatible BIOS. My X570 Aorus Master had support with F20 BIOS.
Crackong
I saw a photo of them retailing these chips with an AMD style CPU package ( The little package of CPU you find inside the retail box, with the Ryzen sticker )
Then the package is bundled with a reference cooler with plastic wrap
That's the OEM/Bulk package. Essentially it's Retail minus user manual and the outside thin orange box. Everything else should be the same.
Valantar
These APUs aren't any faster than current CPUs - in fact, testing from Tom's hardware makes them out to be slightly slower (at least in gaming - might be the first real, conclusive example of PCIe bottlenecking in real life, given that these only have a PCIe 3.0 x8 for the GPU). The iGPU is unbeatable though, so I'm putting one in my HTPC as soon as they become available.

dGPU gaming in 1080p:

Competitive in CPU performance though:
Yes and no. I had 4750G for a week for testing before i resold it since i have 3800X and i have no interest in iGPU per se. I bough it from a reputable retailer in my country. Cost 310€.
Came in OEM/Bulk package.

In CPU limited gaming it lost to 3800X due to smaller L3. In GPU limited scenarios there was very little difference. IF clock went to 2200Mhz.
With good B-Die RAM it could achieve sub 50ns latency but this and 100-200Mhz better clock wrere not enough to dethrone 3800X in games.
Temps were better tho due to monolithic design.

Also it had 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes not 8 like may incorrectly claimed. So even 2080Ti would not be bottlenecked.
My reddit thread: Amd/comments/hww2lg
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#16
silentbogo
Valantar
These APUs aren't any faster than current CPUs - in fact, testing from Tom's hardware makes them out to be slightly slower (at least in gaming - might be the first real, conclusive example of PCIe bottlenecking in real life, given that these only have a PCIe 3.0 x8 for the GPU). The iGPU is unbeatable though, so I'm putting one in my HTPC as soon as they become available.
I think you are confusing the results with something they are not. Tom's didn't have a retail version of the chip, and the closest comparison is 3800X, which is ~10% faster due to ~10% higher base and boost clock.
Tomorrow
I bough it from a reputable retailer in my country. Cost 310€.
One of our local retailers has Pro 4750G in stock for around the same price (roughly 10,000UAH, or 310EUR). If we disregard halved L3 with some minor consequences, it makes it an appealing buy comparing to 3800X (which is over 100 euro more expensive).
Posted on Reply
#17
Tomorrow
silentbogo
One of our local retailers has Pro 4750G in stock for around the same price (roughly 10,000UAH, or 310EUR). If we disregard halved L3 with some minor consequences, it makes it an appealing buy comparing to 3800X (which is over 100 euro more expensive).
I guess im lucky that i got my 3800X (tray) for 325€ last year a ~month after launch. Not bad i would say. I could problably upgrade to Zen3 and not even lose any money by reselling it.
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#18
Flaky
Tomorrow
Also it had 16 PCI-E 3.0 lanes not 8 like may incorrectly claimed.
Thank you for confirming that - motherboard specifications also mention 16 lanes for new apus, but it's good to hear that from actual person :)
Now we can have pure storage madness with 5 cpu-attached NVMes :cool:

I think AMD plans to release these APUs for retail market at the same time as 4000 series cpus. Less mess for everyone.
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#19
Valantar
silentbogo
I think you are confusing the results with something they are not. Tom's didn't have a retail version of the chip, and the closest comparison is 3800X, which is ~10% faster due to ~10% higher base and boost clock.
Did you actually read the post you quoted, or look at the results? I specified dGPU gaming performance - where the 4750G even at 4.45GHz and 2GHz IF/4GT/s RAM still lags behind both the 3300X and 3600XT at stock - and I also said it's competitive for compute performance - but even there it's behind the 3700X (not 3800X) in the charts for MT testing. It's still plenty fast, but there is no reason for anyone in the market for a 3000-series Ryzen CPU to buy these unless there is some weird price difference going on. As for them not having a retail model.... well, you know, there aren't any. So there's that. But unless the specs actually change for the same price point/model tier for the retail chips whenever they arrive, performance will be the same (unless motherboard manufacturers cheat by upping voltage or otherwise force higher clocks).
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#20
R0H1T
Tomorrow
In CPU limited gaming it lost to 3800X due to smaller L3.
Yup, the single biggest difference between (Intel) generations say SKL all the way up to CML is ~ cache. Yes the higher clock speeds help as well as more cores have an impact, though without the accompanying cache changes it'd all be for naught. The same goes for AMD, though the APUs seem to have been impacted to a much lesser extent IMO.
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#21
Vayra86
Rob94hawk
Smart move by AMD. Now they'll sell like hotcakes cause 'you can't have them' ;)
Yeah smart, this totally shows us AMD is finally doing things professionally for the consumer market eh?

I wonder when they do get it. And if
Posted on Reply
#22
Imsochobo
Vayra86
Yeah smart, this totally shows us AMD is finally doing things professionally for the consumer market eh?

I wonder when they do get it. And if
they're not for us to buy because they don't have the supply cause some big oems like lenovo and such are buying all up.
Posted on Reply
#23
silentbogo
Valantar
Did you actually read the post you quoted, or look at the results? I specified dGPU gaming performance - where the 4750G even at 4.45GHz and 2GHz IF/4GT/s RAM still lags behind both the 3300X and 3600XT
L3
Imsochobo
they're not for us to buy because they don't have the supply cause some big oems like lenovo and such are buying all up.
I don't think it's that drastic. Those 4750s I found locally are probably meant for smaller prebuilt PC manufacturers, which are still trying to get rid of their 2000-series stock.
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#24
Chrispy_
I don't see what the fuss is about. Pro chips are as much down to vendors implementing the extra features in firmware and hardware - Sure, they're based on the Renoir APUs that will be coming eventually to retail channels but they're more about corporate builds that need to complete all the tickbox excercises.

If you buy one to put in a consumer board without any of the corresponding security hardware and software stack to go with it, then you're doing it wrong. Just buy an easy-to get 3700X and call it a day. Lets face it, you weren't buying the Renoir chip for its graphics because the Vega11 in the 3400G really isn't much slower.
Posted on Reply
#25
Valantar
silentbogo
L3
So you were arguing that the results were due to the lower L3 cache and not due to the restriced PCIe link? Here's a suggestion: next time you want to make an argument, actually make an argument. Saying "I think you are confusing things" says nothing at all about what you are thinking of. To paraphrase your post, I think you are confusing your words with words saying something yours are not. From the little you did say, you seemed to be arguing like-for-like (gaming?) performance with the 3800X with the only advantage being due to clock speeds, which ... well, doesn't match with the L3 affecting things.
Chrispy_
Lets face it, you weren't buying the Renoir chip for its graphics because the Vega11 in the 3400G really isn't much slower.

Not that much slower, but certainly slower, and with a lot less OC headroom. I'm not even close to considering a 3400G for my HTPC for this very reason. A ~4700G or ~4600G will likely deliver decent 1080p gaming chops if I push the RAM a bit (which it can handle, unlike Picasso), which a 3400G doesn't really achieve. Compound that with seemingly great IF clock scaling (reportedly 2300MHz is relatively normal), a high-clocking iGPU (THW's testing was done at 2.4GHz) and AMD's best IMC so far and this thing will knock the boots off any other APU build.
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