Wednesday, August 19th 2020

Steam Users Want Two Hour Microsoft Flight Simulator Refund Time Extended

Microsoft Flight Simulator has recently launched to mixed initial reactions with many users on Steam frustrated with the current install system. When downloaded through Steam Microsoft Flight Simulator initially installs just a small launcher which then proceeds to download the 150 GB game. The problem is Steam's playtime counter starts when this launcher is opened and with install times taking upwards of 3 hours on a 500 Mbps connection the two hour refund window expires before you can get into the actual game. Players have suggested an extension to the refund time window with many expressing their frustration with negative reviews for the game causing the average to drop to just 6/10.
Source: Steam
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21 Comments on Steam Users Want Two Hour Microsoft Flight Simulator Refund Time Extended

#1
INSTG8R
Vanguard Beta Tester
Well I had it on Preload on XGP so I was pretty surprised to launch it to be met with another 91GB of required content. Even on my 500/500 connection it took over an hour...
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#2
watzupken
Instead of increasing the "trial" period @ 2 hours, Steam should consider how they can determine when the 2 hours counter will start for this game. Generally games purchased on Steam is downloaded directly from Steam, so this game is one of the exceptions.

Anyway, I've noticed that games from Microsoft tend to take up massive amounts of storage space. At least in my experience with Gears 4 and Forza Horizon, the games take crazy amount of storage and a long time for the download to complete. This 150GB requirement for this flight simulator is another level. While the game is impressive visually, I feel one of the key problem is the sloppy game optimization to take up less space.
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#3
Chomiq
watzupken
Instead of increasing the "trial" period @ 2 hours, Steam should consider how they can determine when the 2 hours counter will start for this game. Generally games purchased on Steam is downloaded directly from Steam, so this game is one of the exceptions.

Anyway, I've noticed that games from Microsoft tend to take up massive amounts of storage space. At least in my experience with Gears 4 and Forza Horizon, the games take crazy amount of storage and a long time for the download to complete. This 150GB requirement for this flight simulator is another level. While the game is impressive visually, I feel one of the key problem is the sloppy game optimization to take up less space.
Large filesize is actually part of their "optimization". They don't have to use cpu power to decompress textures on consoles etc., they just stream uncompressed instead. That's why you've got 100gb games.
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#4
Sandbo
DIdn't know that, I am stuck with a 10 Mbps ultra-high speed network, downloading GTA V (after reinstalling Windows) easily takes me 21 hours or more.
Guess there is no trial for me
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#5
Vayra86
Chomiq
Large filesize is actually part of their "optimization". They don't have to use cpu power to decompress textures on consoles etc., they just stream uncompressed instead. That's why you've got 100gb games.
Exactly. That is where you would want it to be optimized. The limiting factor in any system is still the peak performance of CPU and GPU, RAM, VRAM. Storage you can expand cheaply and/or accomodate for by deleting something else.

Consoles do much the same (look at the new gen) and it even happens within the GPU itself where more data gets stored in VRAM and its bandwidth is ever more important. Something's gotta give. If you can't make VRAM faster, just make it bigger. Similarly, if you can't get all your assets calculated real time, just store them and pick them up.
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#6
W1zzard
Vayra86
That is where you would want it to be optimized. The limiting factor in any system is still the peak performance of CPU and GPU, RAM, VRAM.
The limiting factor is the software developer, who seems to be a noob in flight simulator's case. The game will download one compressed file, extract its contents, then move on to the next file, all in the same thread, so neither your pipe, nor your CPU, nor disk can be used to the max.
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#7
Vayra86
W1zzard
The limiting factor is the software developer, who seems to be a noob in flight simulator's case. The game will download one compressed file, extract its contents, then move on to the next file, all in the same thread, so neither your pipe, nor your CPU, nor disk can be used to the max.
During installation, I reckon... right?
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#8
W1zzard
Vayra86
During installation, I reckon... right?
For Steam users, "installation" is just downloading 500 MB of the game, executables and stuff, without any of its data. Once you're launching for the first time, the game's own patcher will start downloading 90 GB of assets, using the method I mentioned above. This took me 2-3 hours on a 1000M connection. The 500 MB Steam part works fine and at full speed (5 seconds in my case)
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#9
Vayra86
W1zzard
For Steam users, "installation" is just downloading 500 MB of the game, executables and stuff, without any of its data. Once you're launching for the first time, the game's own patcher will start downloading 90 GB of assets, using the method I mentioned above. This took me 2-3 hours on a 1000M connection. The 500 MB Steam part works fine and at full speed (5 seconds in my case)
Yeah that is pretty hilarious and silly all at the same time. But I was more referring to optimization within the game and how a large filesize is inherent to that.
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#11
ZeppMan217
I recall some MMOs using the same method where you only got their own launcher/installer from Steam and the actual game files were downloaded from their own servers, though these games were either F2P or had free trials.
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#12
The Foldinator
Sandbo
DIdn't know that, I am stuck with a 10 Mbps ultra-high speed network, downloading GTA V (after reinstalling Windows) easily takes me 21 hours or more.
Guess there is no trial for me
Yea this frustrates the $@#! out of me to.
fast internet but its always a slow 10Mbs download :oops:

Oo and i kinda wanted this game as well but i'll wait a bit now..
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#13
Jism
What happend to having a optimized version of a game in the first place. 150GB for a game. 5 games and your looking at a half terabyte of storage needed / required for games.

geez, if anyone remember the 90 crazybytes CD's they'd repack the complete game to make it fit on a disc with like 20 other games easy.
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#14
chr0nos
Its more sad the fact that runs on DX11

Edit: even Call of Duty - Modern Bloatware is DX12
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#15
INSTG8R
Vanguard Beta Tester
W1zzard
The limiting factor is the software developer, who seems to be a noob in flight simulator's case. The game will download one compressed file, extract its contents, then move on to the next file, all in the same thread, so neither your pipe, nor your CPU, nor disk can be used to the max.
Yeah it was pretty painful to watch...and MS has less than stellar speeds on top of that...
chr0nos
Its more sad the fact that runs on DX11

Edit: even Call of Duty - Modern Bloatware is DX12
Apparently DX12 and VR will be added later. But yeah I was surprised to see it was DX11
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#16
nangu
W1zzard
The limiting factor is the software developer, who seems to be a noob in flight simulator's case. The game will download one compressed file, extract its contents, then move on to the next file, all in the same thread, so neither your pipe, nor your CPU, nor disk can be used to the max.
In my case, the installer used four threads and a lot the GPU too. I don't know for what because the game was ready to start after several hours from start downloading so.... But it used a lot of CPU and GPU power for a simple installer, yes, without any aparent benefit.
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#17
Razrback16
Steam quite honestly needs to adopt GOG's refund policy. 2 Hours really isn't enough in many cases, I completely agree with the users complaining about the Flight Sim game.
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#18
londiste
watzupken
Anyway, I've noticed that games from Microsoft tend to take up massive amounts of storage space. At least in my experience with Gears 4 and Forza Horizon, the games take crazy amount of storage and a long time for the download to complete. This 150GB requirement for this flight simulator is another level. While the game is impressive visually, I feel one of the key problem is the sloppy game optimization to take up less space.
High resolution/quality assets tend to be on the large side. I cannot even imagine the amount of textures and assets in Flight Simulator.
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#19
FYFI13
If you're planing to play this with mouse + keyboard setup - make sure you have numpad, otherwise you will have a bad day.
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#20
kn00tcn
watzupken
Anyway, I've noticed that games from Microsoft tend to take up massive amounts of storage space. At least in my experience with Gears 4 and Forza Horizon, the games take crazy amount of storage and a long time for the download to complete. This 150GB requirement for this flight simulator is another level. While the game is impressive visually, I feel one of the key problem is the sloppy game optimization to take up less space.
there is no lack of optimization, high resolution assets that dont repeat will take up a lot of space, in any game or rendering

if you remember lawbreakers, that had like 15gb of character assets when i looked at its files, it's a design decision

this sim that contains 'the whole world' isnt expected to be small, only quake champions should have been small since that's an arena shooter (that's about 80gb, again with lots character & weapon models, but i dont know how much those take up compared to the maps)
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#21
kayjay010101
kn00tcn
there is no lack of optimization, high resolution assets that dont repeat will take up a lot of space, in any game or rendering

if you remember lawbreakers, that had like 15gb of character assets when i looked at its files, it's a design decision

this sim that contains 'the whole world' isnt expected to be small, only quake champions should have been small since that's an arena shooter (that's about 80gb, again with lots character & weapon models, but i dont know how much those take up compared to the maps)
The "non-repeating" factor is largely why it's so big. If you've played MSFS you'll know what I'm talking about. The incredible detail of the planes is what largely makes the game so big. Every button, the crinkles in the leather on the seating, every single detail in the cockpit is so high-res and unique that it's no wonder the game is so large in size.
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