Having read the thread all I want to add is:

yukinin97This almost reads like a satirical comment. Imagine shilling so hard for any single corporation, none of which give a single F about you... how do you personally benefit from doing that? Most of us are just enjoying the increased competition but you're out here propping up Intel like your life depends on it lol. I never realized how bad the fanboyism I kept hearing about was until I came into this forum. Yikes.

And when was the last time that AMD was relevant to you? Their marketshare has doubled YoY while Intel's has decreased by 20%... Lastly, Zen 4's release date on AMD's own CPU roadmap was slated for late 2022 LONG before we saw announcements of Apple securing 80% of TSMC's 5nm production capacity. Intel doesn't need to worry about that since they're still stuck with their 14nm++++++++++++++:laugh:.

As I said, so many AMD fanboys, who easily get triggered as usual. You belong to the mass and think like the mass. Don't think you're anything different.

Patr!ckAs I said, so many AMD fanboys, who easily get triggered as usual. You belong to the mass and think like the mass. Don't think you're anything different.

Great counterargument. Pleasure chatting with you.

I've been with Intel for the entirety of the last decade to due their historically superior performance in gaming but now I'm an AMD fanboy simply for questioning your claims and your zealous defense of Intel. Alright, bud.

Patr!ckSo many many salty AMD fanboys in the comment section, lol. This is just the beginning of 2021 guys. Be ready for the many Intel releases coming this year including their gaming GPUs. From now and onward, AMD will no longer be relevant. Ice Lake-SP is coming early this year, the little Rocket Lake Core i5-11600K will humiliate the entire Zen 3 lineup in gaming and single threaded tasks and the 8 core Tiger Lake-H will beat the crap out of Cezanne-H.
AMD has poor stock availability and will have ZERO answer to Rocket Lake-S, Tiger Lake-H and Alder Lake-S in 2021. Zen 3+ on 6nm won't come before 2022 videocardz.com/newz/amd-mobile-apus-for-2021-2022-detailed-first-navi2-igpu-coming-with-vangogh and Zen 4 will be a Q2/Q3 2022 product thanks to Apple wccftech.com/apple-secured-80-tsmc-5nm-production-capacity-2021/ wccftech.com/apple-secures-3nm-tsmc-chip-production/
HAPPY SALTY YEAR AMD fanboys.

So you are on TPU as well? You looked much more restrained on videocardz, but I see that you are among those who believe that a monopoly and a lack of competition is a good thing...

Even if you don't plan to buy an AMD cpu, it's in your best interest that AMD can keep up, so that the prices doesn't get obscene. AMD already started to jack up the price now that they fell that the "Atlon Fx" era is back, and it's not in Intel DNA to play the budget option. If AMD sells an 8 core at 564€, intel will raise with an i7 at 600€

Patr!ckNo, this is not a joke but a true reality that will strike in your face in 2021. NVidia RTX 3000 mobile chips are still shipping with Intel 10th gen CPUs. NVidia will need AMD more than ever for their CPU supply as Intel will keep most of their own 8 core Tiger Lake-H chips for their own Xe-HPG gaming GPUs on the laptop market.

1. You are aware that Intel was already condemned for antitrust right? And you think that they would have the nerve to pull something like that ?

2. That's assuming that intel GPU can compete with Nvidia in gaming, from what we have seen so far intel igp is merely as fast as vega, wich is already quite old, and their first dedicated gpu compete with a MX350, wich is based on pascal from 2016.

3. Gamers are not the only people looking for a laptop with a strong GPU, and that's where you get into the wall made by CUDA. I don't like Nvidia as a company, but all the software that I use are either CUDA exclusive or are much faster with Optix. If intel cannot provide the same level of software support, it's a whole market that they are going to lose. And there's also all the gaming related exclusive tech that are mature. Cyberpunk showed just how valuable DLSS is.

What Intel is trying to do with their ecosystem is interesting, but with the informations that we have right now, it's farfetched to think that it's going be a mature solution on day one on every segment.

AusWolfOkay, so Intel will storm the market with their far superior 11th gen Core CPUs and top of the line gaming GPUs that will wipe AMD and nvidia off the face of the Earth. The End.

My questions are:
1. What makes you believe that the gaming (laptop) market is the only place where Intel, AMD and nvidia sell their products?
2. If the scenario above really happens, how will YOU personally benefit from it?

2. If the scenario above really happens, how will YOU personally benefit from it?
Is this a real question? LOL
Here's the answer: The large majority of softwares keep being optimized for Intel hardware because Intel has more presence,... more market share because they sell more units, more revenue to invest in R&D that bring products like my Optane 905P SSD into existence, and soon gaming GPUs, so I can have the option to ditch NVidia if I want.

R0H1TOkay & why is that a bad thing? Zen3 based APUs are looking stellar & probably will dominate TGL-H in some/most cases including gaming!

Yeah It’s quite interesting seeing alot AMD Mobile parts paired with NV GPUs reminds me of my laptop in the closet with a Turion X2 and and 8800M. But the fact these combos are available shows that AMD. has decent Mobile CPUs to offer as well Of course I wish AMD would get a full AMD combo like 4500U/5700M combo but sadly the 5600M is all they have to offer while id still like to it paired with a decent AMD Mobile part despite its shortcomings. Intel still has a death grip on the mobile segment despite the fact AMD have solid mobile parts up against the same old hot i7s they keep pedalling

Curious to see if these upcoming new Intel mobiles actually show some actual innovation because it’s about the only product in a long time that’s actually “new” sink or swim AMD need get their capable mobile chips in more machines so people can see how there ar actual viable choices in the Mobile segment If this new Intel doesn’t come out swinging AMD need to sieze that opportunity to showcase the great products.

dyonoctisSo you are on TPU as well? You looked much more restrained on videocardz, but I see that you are among those who believe that a monopoly and a lack of competition is a good thing...

Even if you don't plan to buy an AMD cpu, it's in your best interest that AMD can keep up, so that the prices doesn't get obscene. AMD already started to jack up the price now that they fell that the "Atlon Fx" era is back, and it's not in Intel DNA to play the budget option. If AMD sells an 8 core at 564€, intel will raise with an i7 at 600€


1. You are aware that Intel was already condemned for antitrust right? And you think that they would have the nerve to pull something like that ?

2. That's assuming that intel GPU can compete with Nvidia in gaming, from what we have seen so far intel igp is merely as fast as vega, wich is already quite old, and their first dedicated gpu compete with a MX350, wich is based on pascal from 2016.

3. Gamers are not the only people looking for a laptop with a strong GPU, and that's where you get into the wall made by CUDA. I don't like Nvidia as a company, but all the software that I use are either CUDA exclusive or are much faster with Optix. If intel cannot provide the same level of software support, it's a whole market that they are going to lose. And there's also all the gaming related exclusive tech that are mature. Cyberpunk showed just how valuable DLSS is.

What makes you think that Intel has to be on par with NVidia for their first try? Intel will get into the high end league in much less time than it took NVidia and AMD to get where they are now and Intel's oneAPI is already CUDA compliant in case you didn't know. DLSS is an NVidia proprietary tech that needs to be implemented game by game. Intel will sponsor the upcoming Hitman 3 and many other games, and we'll see how long devs can keep justifying supporting a proprietary feature from a chip designer who doesn't have a full CPU + GPU ecosystem.
Talking about Anti-trust? Should I remind you that Intel retained their PCIe 4.0 Optane (P5800X) SSD until Ice Lake-SP and Rocket Lake-S were close to their release window. Intel is an ecosystem and they can do whatever they want with it.

Patr!ck2. If the scenario above really happens, how will YOU personally benefit from it?
Is this a real question? LOL
Here's the answer: The large majority of softwares keep being optimized for Intel hardware because Intel has more presence,... more market share because they sell more units, more revenue to invest in R&D that bring products like my Optane 905P SSD into existence, and soon gaming GPUs, so I can have the option to ditch NVidia if I want.

"The large majority of softwares keep being optimized for Intel hardware because Intel has more presence": Not true. Some games have nvidia tech built in, a smaller number have AMD tech, but technology is mostly developed by Microsoft, and other software companies, who develop their technologies universally, for all hardware. As for CPU and compute scenarios, your software is really not bothered what logo there is on your CPU's box as long as the hardware itself has the necessary instruction sets and computing performance. As for GPU compute, it largely depends on software, where nvidia has the upper hand with CUDA. As far as I know, Intel has nothing to compete with that.

"I can have the option to ditch NVidia if I want": I guess you didn't quite catch my question. If Intel is the ONLY company on the CPU and GPU market, you won't have ANY option, but to buy Intel. With no competition, nothing would force Intel to regulate their prices... do I have to continue?

AusWolf"The large majority of softwares keep being optimized for Intel hardware because Intel has more presence": Not true. Some games have nvidia tech built in, a smaller number have AMD tech, but technology is mostly developed by Microsoft, and other software companies, who develop their technologies universally, for all hardware. As for CPU and compute scenarios, your software is really not bothered what logo there is on your CPU's box as long as the hardware itself has the necessary instruction sets and computing performance.

"I can have the option to ditch NVidia if I want": I guess you didn't quite catch my question. If Intel is the ONLY company on the CPU and GPU market, you won't have ANY option, but to buy Intel. With no competition, nothing would force Intel to regulate their prices... do I have to continue?

Oh really? The large majority of x86 games use the Intel ISPC compiler :) and as long as I know GPUs have their own DRIVERS to compute graphics workloads.
NVidia will still be a viable option,... but in a market with 3 players this time around :)
And if I'm a lazy ass as Sony and Microsoft I would tend to prefer the company that can offer me a full CPU+GPU ecosystem.

Just a quick data point for comparison.



Rocket Lake is a sign that Intel has given up competing with AMD in multi-threaded performance. There is only so much you can do with 7 year old 14nm technology. Maybe their next line of CPUs will be called Oven Lake. :D

RedelZaVedno10400F sells for €138 and 3600 is going for €200, 5600X for €338 here in Germany atm. They both fall in much higher price class atm, but gaming performance is not all that much different, 10400F being faster than 3600 (+6%) and a bit slower than 5600X (-1.5%) at 1080p. Current price premium is just not worth it if you're building PC primarily for gaming especially when 11th gen MBs come out supporting 3200Mhz DDR4, where you will have an option to pair 10400/11400 with budget B or H class motherboard.

And it's not like we don't know what specs and price 11400 will have. Leaked benchmarks are all over the internet. It'll be 6-core/12-thread processor, 2.6GHz base clock and 4.2 (all cores) 4.4GHz (single core) boost clock and 17% singe core IPC gain over 10th gen for €160-180. That sounds much better than €338 option to me.

It's about time brand fanboism dies and people start buying best price to performance ratio or DIY PC gaming will be doomed as normal folks migrate to consoles and only gamers with more money than sense continue with DIY PC hobby. Paying 400 bucks for 6 core CPU in 2021 is pure insanity. That's the price of entire now gen console with 8 cores and 10/12Tflops CPU/GPU in it plus tons of GDDR and large SSD.

That's just supply and demand. The MSRP for the 10400F was $179 compared to the 3600 for $199. The fact the 3600 is €200 for you whilst the 10400F is only €138 is a reflection on the lack of demand and desirability of the 10400F.

The reason nobody wants the 10400F is because it's on a dead platform with stupid arbitrary memory speed limitations unless you pay an extra $50 tax for a Z-series motherboard. Compared to that tax, people just bought the 3600 on an even cheaper AMD board and took advantage of overclocking, unlocked RAM, and the official promise of support for future generations. The low price of the 10400F is a literal reflection on both the horrible limitations of the H or B-series boards, and simultaneously the hidden tax on getting the most out of the 10400F with a z-series chipset. Priced any higher it simply wouldn't be appealing enough to sell.

As for the future price of the 11400F, you're still guessing about something that doesn't yet exist. If you're right, then great! That's fantastic news for budget gamers and brilliant competition that will drive down prices for us all - but please don't quote guesses and hunches like they are iron-clad guarantees, because that's just FUD. Unverified ES/QS leaks and hopeful price expectations are not the same as official announcements and reviews.

Patr!ckOh really? The large majority of x86 games use the Intel ISPC compiler :) and as long as I know GPUs have their own DRIVERS to compute graphics workloads.
NVidia will still be a viable option,... but in a market with 3 players this time around :)
And if I'm a lazy ass as Sony and Microsoft I would tend to prefer the company that can offer me a full CPU+GPU ecosystem.

"The large majority of x86 games use the Intel ISPC compiler": And AMD's 64 bit instruction set. Neither of these are exclusive to Intel or AMD based systems.
"NVidia will still be a viable option,... but in a market with 3 players this time around": I can't see that happen in the near future, but let's hope it happens. Competition is good for prices.
"And if I'm a lazy ass as Sony and Microsoft I would tend to prefer the company that can offer me a full CPU+GPU ecosystem": AMD?

Patr!ckOh really? The large majority of x86 games use the Intel ISPC compiler :) and as long as I know GPUs have their own DRIVERS to compute graphics workloads.
NVidia will still be a viable option,... but in a market with 3 players this time around :)
And if I'm a lazy ass as Sony and Microsoft I would tend to prefer the company that can offer me a full CPU+GPU ecosystem.

You mean AMD, right? ;)

lynx29and security issues no doubt.



yes, my 5600x draws 84 watts when gaming... and maxes out all games to be gpu bound... so yeah 7nm is king

So let me tell you some facts. I have 10700k that draws 75-85 watts when gaming and gets more frames than yours. I know you think AMD is God’s gift to earth, but guess what? Intel is a better chip for gaming and most other tasks than don’t involve all your cores.. which 90% of users never do. So I’d take Intel all day, still. I came from R5 3600 and it’s a world of difference especially in gaming. And mine takes much less voltage. But you keep hanging on to those meaningless benchmarks :) truth hurts

unclewebbJust a quick data point for comparison.



Rocket Lake is a sign that Intel has given up competing with AMD in multi-threaded performance. There is only so much you can do with 7 year old 14nm technology. Maybe their next line of CPUs will be called Oven Lake. :D

No, it is a sign you're worrying for nothing. The 8 core 5.2GHz 11900K multi-thread score is almost on par with my 10 core 5.1GHz 10900K. At 5.3GHz that 11900K will be similar or above the stock 10900K in terms of multi-core performance.

coozie78You mean AMD, right? ;)

AMD is a good option, but I will patiently wait for the full Intel ecosystem that also comes with PCIe 4.0 Optane SSDs.

dicktracyFaster in useless benchmarks means it will be MUCH faster in gaming. F to AMD and those who recently bought the extremely overpriced 5800x.

Also, this uses the Icelake architecture from 2017 and the 14nm process node from 2015. AMD’s latest and greatest has, once again, lose to Intel’s older designs. Had they use Tigerlake and 10nm in 2020...

Um, faster in a useless benchmark does not necessarily translate to faster in gaming performance. Also, Intel is using architecture from the prehistoric CPU era (Core) that has been tweaked to death. They need to get with the program and innovate, such as Foveros, etc. Heck, even Apple came out swinging with the M1 that is already up to speed with Intel and AMD, so Intel is merely a slothful juggernaut that is finally getting their butt kicked and hopefully will lead to more innovation on their part.

As for you, good thing Intel has another fanboy to blindly support them...

unclewebbJust a quick data point for comparison.



Rocket Lake is a sign that Intel has given up competing with AMD in multi-threaded performance. There is only so much you can do with 7 year old 14nm technology. Maybe their next line of CPUs will be called Oven Lake. :D

Hell's Lake, Lava Lake, Molten Lake!

Patr!ckWhat makes you think that Intel has to be on par with NVidia for their first try? Intel will get into the high end league in much less time than it took NVidia and AMD to get where they are now and Intel's oneAPI is already CUDA compliant in case you didn't know. DLSS is an NVidia proprietary tech that needs to be implemented game by game. Intel will sponsor the upcoming Hitman 3 and many other games, and we'll see how long devs can keep justifying supporting a proprietary feature from a chip designer who doesn't have a full CPU + GPU ecosystem.
Talking about Anti-trust? Should I remind you that Intel retained their PCIe 4.0 Optane (P5800X) SSD until Ice Lake-SP and Rocket Lake-S were close to their release window. Intel is an ecosystem and they can do whatever they want with it.

I would be surprised if the people in charge will see Intel actively forbidding a nvidia/intel dGPU/CPU combo on the same level. Back when Larabee was a thing the FTC went after them:
The FTC Sues Intel Over CPU & GPU Competition (anandtech.com).
Look at it this way: Optane wasn't working with an AMD cpu, but they never went and told to Dell: "You cannot sell an Intel pc if they don't exclusively have an optane ssd." Optane made Intel cpu a bit more appealing, but you are not forced to use Optane if you got an Intel CPU. That nuance is important. (It's like saying: "look, Microsoft already got a small ecosystem going on with the surface. Then one day they decide to make their own cpu/gpu, and go the Apple way while forbidding, anyone else to make a windows compatible pc. That ain't gonna fly, and Microsoft got sued for less).

And as you're aware, lately the E.U and U.S are pretty trigger happy when it comes to antitrust.

You are the one who said that Tiger lake H won't be sold with RTX 3000, meaning that if Intel cannot compete right now, they are effectively going to be out of the gaming laptop market until they manage to get a parity. Going from a mx350 to an RTX 3060 is a big, big jump and we don't have any data suggesting they got something able to do that.

Intel OneAPI still require the dev to do some work, and history showed me that devs are either slow or won't do it at all if there no benefits. When Apple
got into a fight with Nvidia, they lost a bunch of their customers base who had to use windows even though they were so deep into the Apple ecosystem. It's only now that some dev finally announced a metal version of those apps. Even Pixar who got a tight relationship with Apple is merely considering metal, but their production tools are still deep into the Nvidia ecosystem.

So, I won't jump into any hype train until I see a strong support :D for years and years people from Otoy and redshift kept saying "AMD support will eventually come" and don't even get me started on Autodesk. Maya is a software that's been available on every OS even in the Power Pc days, but there's still no words about a native ARM version in the work even though there's a fair amount of Mac based vfx/animation studio who will make the transition. So I have very little faith about seeing Arnold working in Intel gpu's in the close future.

It's not that I don't want to see Intel being able to provide a great ecosystem, it's just that I know that it's not as easy as you make it sound like. Metal was Apple reaction to Nvidia effectively neutering open CL. They tried an open API, and it failed. Everybody wants to make their ecosystem, but the E.U and U.S government are constantly looking over the shoulder of tech company getting too zealous.

GaterchompSo let me tell you some facts. I have 10700k that draws 75-85 watts when gaming and gets more frames than yours. I know you think AMD is God’s gift to earth, but guess what? Intel is a better chip for gaming and most other tasks than don’t involve all your cores.. which 90% of users never do. So I’d take Intel all day, still. I came from R5 3600 and it’s a world of difference especially in gaming. And mine takes much less voltage. But you keep hanging on to those meaningless benchmarks :) truth hurts

it gets more frames than mine? you sure about that? :)

So many cynics in here. But why?
This should be exciting times when the competition in the midrange is the strongest it has been for over a decade. And if both parties can bring a decent volume to the market, we should be looking at some very competitive pricing, with occasional bundles and discounts.

Patr!ckHere's the answer: The large majority of softwares keep being optimized for Intel hardware because Intel has more presence

Not true. There is no such thing as "Intel optimized" or "AMD optimized" software. The ISA is the same, and we can't target either' architecture's underlying micro operations.

Patr!ckThe large majority of x86 games use the Intel ISPC compiler :)

Nope.
Most software is compiled with MSVC, GCC or LLVM. Games are mostly compiled with MSVC.
This claim about Intel's copiler is responsible for Intel-biased software is nothing but FUD.

GaterchompSo let me tell you some facts. I have 10700k that draws 75-85 watts when gaming and gets more frames than yours. I know you think AMD is God’s gift to earth, but guess what? Intel is a better chip for gaming and most other tasks than don’t involve all your cores.. which 90% of users never do. So I’d take Intel all day, still. I came from R5 3600 and it’s a world of difference especially in gaming. And mine takes much less voltage. But you keep hanging on to those meaningless benchmarks :) truth hurts

Let me tell you some facts: your fanboy isn’t isn’t appreciated. Your system is different than his and if you like your current setup, great, don’t bash someone else’s and try to claim that yours is better because of a brand or label, that is worse than childish. Intel makes great CPUs and so does AMD. If other people choose AMD, good for them, competition is good. Your comparisons are not worth consideration as your fanboy renders them worthless.

The truth is you need to stop being a troll and start respecting others who prefer different hardware.

Here are some more facts for you that show Rocket Lake at 4Ghz, is slower than Zen 3 at 4Ghz. Note that the CPU is an engineering sample but at the same clockspeed, Intel is losing the IPC race. This highlights the innovation that AMD has done over the past 5+ years in developing Zen architecture.

Rocket Lake Engineering Samples Benchmarked Against Zen 3 | Tom's Hardware

Why do I even bother reading this threat after the first page was about Intel, I knew all the AMD fans would be in here................

This changes...everything!

jaggerwildWhy do I even bother reading this threat after the first page was about Intel, I knew all the AMD fans would be in here................

Oh look a rather weak veiled troll. Glad you could contribute...

I put little faith in so-called leaks, they just cannot be wholly trusted to be 100% accurate.

Theoretically assuming it is accurate in single core, the real competition begins with the load on the wallet compared to the Ryzen.

If any moderators see this, I kindly ask of you...... Can you do something to rid this site of obvious fanboyish trolls? They're degrading the quality of this site by their mere presence.