Tuesday, October 12th 2021

AMD Confirms "Zen 3" with 64 MB 3DV Cache for Q1-2022, "Zen 4" Later, PCIe Gen5 + DDR5

AMD today celebrated 5 Years of Ryzen, with a special video presentation by John Taylor, AMD Chief Marketing Officer, and Robert Hallock, Director of Technical Marketing. The company confirmed that its next Ryzen processors will come out only in Q1-2022. These processors will feature updated CPU core complex dies (CCDs) that combine the existing "Zen 3" microarchitecture with 64 MB of additional 3D Vertical Cache memory. AMD claims that this change improves performance by anywhere between 4% to 25% for games, amounting to the kind of performance uplifts you'd expect from a new processor generation.

AMD did not reveal whether the updated processors will be branded within the existing Ryzen 5000 series, or newer Ryzen 6000 series. If you remember, the "Zen+" microarchitecture enabled AMD to come up with a whole new generation, the Ryzen 2000 series, despite modest 4% IPC uplifts, albeit significant improvements to the boosting behavior, resulting in improved multi-threaded performance. What remains unclear is whether the updated "Zen 3" chips with 3DV Cache will herald a new platform, or whether these chips will be built on the existing Socket AM4 with DDR4 memory and PCI-Express Gen 4.
AMD's next truly next-generation Ryzen processor will come out within 2022, the company confirmed. Based on the new "Zen 4" microarchitecture, the company is targeting significant IPC uplifts, that will help it compete with Intel; but more importantly, introduce the new Socket AM5. An LGA package with 1,718 pins, AM5 will enable next-gen I/O. The "Zen 4" based next-gen Ryzen will indeed feature the combination of DDR5 memory and PCI-Express Gen 5, letting AMD level up to Intel on that front.

AMD's 2022 roadmap for desktop Ryzen processors looks quite similar to its 2020 roadmap. The company had initially refreshed its Ryzen 3000 series with a trio of Ryzen 3000XT SKUs that missed the mark of being viable stopgaps; but followed it up with the groundbreaking Ryzen 5000 "Zen 3" series toward the end of the year. 2021 will go down as an year without any new Ryzen processor generation.

Another aspect of Socket AM5 confirmed by AMD in the presentation was backwards compatibility of coolers with Socket AM4. You'll be able to retain your AM4-compatible coolers for AM5, without needing any adapters or upgrades to your coolers' retention modules.

As for a concrete response to Intel's Hybrid CPU core designs that the company will be pioneering on the desktop PC with "Alder Lake," AMD doesn't appear to be having a hybrid core design of its own, but hinted at the possibility that it is working on a new power-management solution built from the ground up, which will probably run a homogeneous set of CPU cores across very different performance/Watt bands, while retaining a consistent ISA. AMD has given this a rather uninteresting name—Power Management Framework.

Find the AMD presentation here:

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131 Comments on AMD Confirms "Zen 3" with 64 MB 3DV Cache for Q1-2022, "Zen 4" Later, PCIe Gen5 + DDR5

#26
lynx29
I wish AMD would make more than one 6800m laptop... they literally only have one laptop with a zen cpu and 6800m gpu. its a bit silly considering how much time they have had...
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#27
HisDivineOrder
lynx29I wish AMD would make more than one 6800m laptop... they literally only have one laptop with a zen cpu and 6800m gpu. its a bit silly considering how much time they have had...
I wish AMD would make more GPU's. As in actually manufacture more.
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#28
lynx29
HisDivineOrderI wish AMD would make more GPU's. As in actually manufacture more.
the reason i point out the laptop one specifically is it seems almost like a publicity stunt cause its literally singular laptop in an ocean of nvidia laptops... just annoys me
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#29
GURU7OF9
EllertisFrom my perspective the E cores in alder lake in are there for a better multithread performance scaling in a given thermal package. Yes, power efficiency is more important in mobile where the power requirements are even more important. Though that doesn't mean you wouldn't get a performance uplift on desktop.
I still see a lot of people complaining about the E cores, saying they are worthless, when in fact a well multithreaded application will perform better than the only P core cpu, because the E cores are much better in a die size/energy efficiency ratio. 4 E cores take as much die size as 1 P core, though perform about 50%ish better in restricted power environment.
So what you are really saying is alder lake on the desktop runs too hot to have all big cores !
Or are you saying e cores really should be used for all p core locations cos they are faster and more energy efficient?
And the p cores are only there for single thread performance !
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#30
Ellertis
GURU7OF9So what you are really saying is alder lake on the desktop runs too hot to have all big cores !
Or are you saying e cores really should be used for all p core locations cos they are faster and more energy efficient?
And the p cores are only their for single thread performance !
"Runs too hot" really depends on how pushed is it from the box, for example, zen 3 is more efficient than zen2, but its being pushed very hard with its boost algorithm. Does it mean zen3 is bad, no, because any cpu can be way more power efficient simply by underclocking and undervolting a tiny bit. Imo, pushing any cpu/gpu just for those 5-10% is a bit useless. What am I trying to say is, any cpu can run very hot, and every cpu can run very cool, while still performing decently. The E cores in alder lake are there for better multithread performance scaling in a given power package, not because it's too hot, it would be with only P cores, though not necessarily. Man it turns in a hell of a ramble, ehh. Basically, P and E cores strategy is very precise balancing act between cost(die size)/Power/Performance
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#31
GURU7OF9
Ellertis"Runs too hot" really depends on how pushed is it from the box, for example, zen 3 is more efficient than zen2, but its being pushed very hard with its boost algorithm. Does it mean zen3 is bad, no, because any cpu can be way more power efficient simply by underclocking and undervolting a tiny bit. Imo, pushing any cpu/gpu just for those 5-10% is a bit useless. What am I trying to say is, any cpu can run very hot, and every cpu can run very cool, while still performing decently. The E cores in alder lake are there for better multithread performance scaling in a given power package, not because it's too hot, it would be with only P cores, though not necessarily. Man it turns in a hell of a ramble, ehh. Basically, P and E cores strategy is very precise balancing act between cost(die size)/Power/Performance
Well it will certainly be very interesting to see how it all turns out ! Roll on Nov 4th !
Just got to sort through all the spin from the facts!
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#32
nemesis.ie
freeagentThis is one thing that annoys me with AMD. Cool now I can sell my less than a year old parts at a loss to have the latest and greatest :nutkick:
Erm, AMD's motherboard stay current a lot longer than the "other folks".
If you buy a board with a socket that has been out for several years already, what do you expect?
Or do you just mean you didn't anticipate the new thing coming so soon? At least you'll be able pop in a new CPU and just sell the old one as a stop-gap if you like. ;)
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#33
Selaya
Ellertis"Runs too hot" really depends on how pushed is it from the box, for example, zen 3 is more efficient than zen2, but its being pushed very hard with its boost algorithm [ ... ]
That's just the 5800X tho, and only for MT (unless I'm missing something?), but that SKU (the -800X is that) has had been Bad Ideas About Ryzen since forever basically, so.
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#34
windwhirl
TomorrowOfcourse it will. Im baffled that the author even questions this.
Better to leave it shrouded in doubt just in case AMD isn't completely clear on the matter. Better safe than sorry.
lynx29I wish AMD would make more than one 6800m laptop... they literally only have one laptop with a zen cpu and 6800m gpu. its a bit silly considering how much time they have had...
It also depends on laptop makers being actually interested, sadly. And Nvidia has a near absolute hold of the market, so AMD will have to invest heavily in that sector.
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#35
freeagent
nemesis.ieErm, AMD's motherboard stay current a lot longer than the "other folks".
If you buy a board with a socket that has been out for several years already, what do you expect?
Or do you just mean you didn't anticipate the new thing coming so soon? At least you'll be able pop in a new CPU and just sell the old one as a stop-gap if you like. ;)
Their boards are current because they haven't changed anything :D

Seems like a good way to save money on R+D..

I knew they were dropping a new line of CPU's, and I heard it was for AM4, but part of me was hoping that was not true. I have been on AM4 for 11 months now. I own a 5600X and a 5900X, soon I guess I will own an XT or whatever its called. Just a little miffed that's all. You drop 800 bucks on a CPU only to have a new one come out just a few months later and lemme know how you feel about it :D
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#36
windwhirl
freeagentYou drop 800 bucks on a CPU only to have a new one come out just a few months later and lemme know how you feel about it
Uh, there's been like a new launch every year for years now, it was kinda foreseeable.
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#37
Arc1t3ct
whatever they release for am4 it won’t be enough to counter alder lake.
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#38
lynx29
Arc1t3ctwhatever they release for am4 it won’t be enough to counter alder lake.
it should be some interesting benches this Fall.
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#39
Ellertis
Arc1t3ctwhatever they release for am4 it won’t be enough to counter alder lake.
Zen3d will beat it in single threaded and multithreaded, maybe not in power efficiency though
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#40
Nephilim666
Did they say anything about threadripper? Surely the delays to that means they're implementing 3d cache with Zen 3 on trx40... Please AMD
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#41
AVATARAT
Arc1t3ctwhatever they release for am4 it won’t be enough to counter alder lake.
Zen3+ will be faster in games and cache programs, Intel will be faster in multithread because of more cores.
If Zen3+ came on AM4 this will be a plus because we will need to change only CPU but not mobo(+ram).
So both companies will be in a win-win situation.
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#42
Wirko
AMD could potentially combine one chiplet with V-Cache and another one without it on a single Ryzen package, which would result in ... yeah, eight P cores and eight E cores!
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#43
freeagent
windwhirlUh, there's been like a new launch every year for years now, it was kinda foreseeable.
Yeah well not for me, this was my first real upgrade in like 10 years, sorry if I am a little miffed.
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#44
PYRO1125
Currently using an ASrock x470 taichi with a 5950x and it's been amazing. Now being this is still Zen 3 and the same socket I don't see why this shouldn't work in all AMD 400 series boards. Did AMD say anything about 400 series being supported? Can't find any info about it.
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#45
Minus Infinity
TheoneandonlyMrKAmD have a different CPU for mobile too you know, they haven't announced 3D cache for it, But, it will be due a update too.
I can still see AMD gaining market share on laptops , a lot of them are not used portably and you can get a day of work based battery use on an AMD lapy now already Soo I dunno, we will see.

And as for higher end laptops, they're not run on battery often and Intel won't compete so well here either.

Finally tangential argument that, the OP isn't about laptops.
Given Cezanne is mentioned in the AMD roadmap as featuring Zen3+just like Warhol it seems certain to have 3D cache. They have the lower end Barcelo that will be Zen3 + Vega8, while Cezanne is Zen3+ + RDNA2. Some analysts have categforically stated Warhol/Cezanne will be AM4 only Zen4 is AM5.

I think the reason why Zen3+ is Q1 2022 is it's on 6nm, new node will need more time to get tested.
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#46
glsn
why don't they make a skinned cpu, so it can watercool with the rising sealevel?
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#47
mechtech
Erazor6000+18% more fps in DOTA 2 compared to Ryzen 9 5900X, considering that no architectural changes were made and the clock speed is the same.
That's impressive, just think about what Zen4 will be.
Probably game dependant. I was kind of surprised that the 5800x vs the 5700g in borderlands 3 was about 20% difference, with basically the cache being the only major difference and clocks only a minor difference.
www.techpowerup.com/review/amd-ryzen-7-5700g/16.html
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#48
First Strike
One question remains. Will they use 3D V-Cache on zen4?

My guess is probably not. That would make things interesting.
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#49
freeagent
First StrikeOne question remains. Will they use 3D V-Cache on zen4?

My guess is probably not. That would make things interesting.
I don't see what they wouldn't.. its probably the one thing they could carryover from AM5..
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#50
windwhirl
glsnwhy don't they make a skinned cpu, so it can watercool with the rising sealevel?
Liquid immersive cooling of entire builds (mobo+CPU+RAM+etc.) is a thing, just so you know.
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