Only one problem if they pick Germany: the most expensive workforce in Europe (save for Luxembourg).

bugOnly one problem if they pick Germany: the most expensive workforce in Europe (save for Luxembourg).

It's not as if they're going to hire some people who barely finished school though, is it?
They're looking for engineers that can run a chip foundry, a group which isn't exactly growing on trees.
Taiwanese companies are having major problems, not only finding staff for their foundries, but also chip designers and what not. I would presume Intel has the same problem.
www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2022/03/14/2003774722

TheLostSwedeIt's not as if they're going to hire some people who barely finished school though, is it?
They're looking for engineers that can run a chip foundry, a group which isn't exactly growing on trees.
Taiwanese companies are having major problems, not only finding staff for their foundries, but also chip designers and what not. I would presume Intel has the same problem.
www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2022/03/14/2003774722

Oh, I'm sure they've covered all their angles. I just thought Italy was a better prospect from a cost point of view. But of course there's subsidies, tax breaks...
If we start building stuff in not-Asia, it's still a win.

Ireland, Italy and Germany are all in the race. My money's on Germany, as they have the biggest incentives (financing).

bugOh, I'm sure they've covered all their angles. I just thought Italy was a better prospect from a cost point of view. But of course there's subsidies, tax breaks...
If we start building stuff in not-Asia, it's still a win.

Yes, because Italy is well known for their superior product quality and hardworking staff compared to Germany... :p

On a more serious note, the US and Europe are the ones to blame for the current situation, they're the ones that started to outsource and kept outsourcing everything and look at where that brought us. All in the name of lowering cost...

LemmingOverlordIreland, Italy and Germany are all in the race. My money's on Germany, as they have the biggest incentives (financing).

Ireland is not in the race, Intel already has fabs there and the company is currently finishing a cutting edge extension to one of the fabs there.

Hi,
Germany is having energy issues with everything happening with Russia
Guess Intel can fab their own green energy fields while their at it.

German's are used to migrants by now.

ThrashZoneHi,
Germany is having energy issues with everything happening with Russia
Guess Intel can fab their own green energy fields while their at it.

German's are used to migrants by now.

Germany’s self-inflected energy issue is a very good point.

Hi,
Only oil and gas company that hasn't bailed on the pipe line to Germany is Chevron
Not surprising the second highest share holder and second to only Russia with 50% stake.

At the beginning of GPU shortages, I did read piles of irresponsible lies, that Taiwan lower it production rate, due lack of large quantities of clean water at Chip manufacturing process.
Now, I do wonder where Germany did find so much clear water? when most of it water resources they are not drinkable.
They will probably use beer instead.

TheLostSwedeYes, because Italy is well known for their superior product quality and hardworking staff compared to Germany... :p

On a more serious note, the US and Europe are the ones to blame for the current situation, they're the ones that started to outsource and kept outsourcing everything and look at where that brought us. All in the name of lowering cost...


Ireland is not in the race, Intel already has fabs there and the company is currently finishing a cutting edge extension to one of the fabs there.

Unless you've heard otherwise, www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/state-in-running-for-new-multibillion-intel-investment-1.4669598

The article says:

"The Republic is in the running to land a major new multibillion-dollar Intel investment, the tech giant’s chief executive Pat Gelsinger has said.

The move comes just months after Intel announced plans to create 1,600 new jobs as part of a $7 billion (€6 billion) investment in the three years to the end of 2021 aimed at more than doubling the manufacturing space at its Irish operation."

LemmingOverlordThe article says:

Read the damn date, September? Spiders and nests all over it.

LemmingOverlordUnless you've heard otherwise, www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/state-in-running-for-new-multibillion-intel-investment-1.4669598

The article says:

"The Republic is in the running to land a major new multibillion-dollar Intel investment, the tech giant’s chief executive Pat Gelsinger has said.

The move comes just months after Intel announced plans to create 1,600 new jobs as part of a $7 billion (€6 billion) investment in the three years to the end of 2021 aimed at more than doubling the manufacturing space at its Irish operation."

That article is from September last year. Yes, Ireland was on the table at one point, but that changed some time ago.
Please see:
www.techpowerup.com/287574/intel-ceo-cites-brexit-as-reason-for-chip-fab-plans-in-uk-not-an-option
and
www.techpowerup.com/290001/intel-delays-new-fab-location-announcements-until-2022
and
www.techpowerup.com/292360/intels-next-european-fab-rumours-point-to-magdeburg-germany

So yes, Intel will continue to invest in Ireland, but the new fab is highly unlikely to be located there.
www.techpowerup.com/291132/intel-ireland-fab-34-achieves-development-milestone-facility-to-drive-intel-4-node

While the expansion plans of Intel is very aggressive, it remains to be seen how well it will turn out. With shortages of raw materials, high power cost, and limited talent pool, I do wonder if these chip producing plan will end up with idle capacity. In my opinion, high cost of everything and not just electronics will be here to stay.

bugOnly one problem if they pick Germany: the most expensive workforce in Europe (save for Luxembourg).

I guess you meant EU?

Also, with the open borders of EU there is a lot of 'cheap' labor available from other countries.

TheLostSwedeYes, because Italy is well known for their superior product quality and hardworking staff compared to Germany... :p

On a more serious note, the US and Europe are the ones to blame for the current situation, they're the ones that started to outsource and kept outsourcing everything and look at where that brought us. All in the name of lowering cost...


Ireland is not in the race, Intel already has fabs there and the company is currently finishing a cutting edge extension to one of the fabs there.

And you believe China and India wouldn't outsource the majority of things if they could?

zlobbyI guess you meant EU?

Also, with the open borders of EU there is a lot of 'cheap' labor available from other countries.

No, I meant Germany. Borders may be open and everything, but the cost of living and income tax can vary wildly. Though in this particular case, both Germany and Italy will tax you a little over 40% of your income.

zlobbyAnd you believe China and India wouldn't outsource the majority of things if they could?

I don't know about India, but China uses their outsourcing potential to import know-how. They may not be happy to reverse that.

TheLostSwedeThat article is from September last year. Yes, Ireland was on the table at one point, but that changed some time ago.
Please see:
www.techpowerup.com/287574/intel-ceo-cites-brexit-as-reason-for-chip-fab-plans-in-uk-not-an-option
and
www.techpowerup.com/290001/intel-delays-new-fab-location-announcements-until-2022
and
www.techpowerup.com/292360/intels-next-european-fab-rumours-point-to-magdeburg-germany

So yes, Intel will continue to invest in Ireland, but the new fab is highly unlikely to be located there.
www.techpowerup.com/291132/intel-ireland-fab-34-achieves-development-milestone-facility-to-drive-intel-4-node

I seriously hope you're not implying the Republic of Ireland is located in the United Kingdom. Of those articles, only the one that points to Magdeburg can imply "Ireland not being in the race", and even then, they are rumours.

Intel has traditionally been very conservative about mainland Europe and has always doubled-down on Ireland, as we can see from recent investments. Germany has been trying to woo Intel into building a fab there ever since AMD spun off its manufacturing arm to Mubadala. Italy seems a long shot tbh. Its semiconductor experience seems to be limited to STMicroelectronics (the French-Italian company), which has (had?) its fab near Aix-les-Bains in the French Alps.

I've read both the articles and their sources and only the Magdeburg one seems remotely relevant, although it reads like a local newspaper hopefully rooting for investment going to Magdeburg.

LemmingOverlordI seriously hope you're not implying the Republic of Ireland is located in the United Kingdom.

Republic of Ireland this got the EU boot at their face recently, because they were play the Game of SPECIAL taxation for incoming foreign investments.
EU told them to stop the funny games, if their plan this is staying within.

The Republic of Ireland an business paradise, this is not as such a place anymore.

LemmingOverlordI seriously hope you're not implying the Republic of Ireland is located in the United Kingdom. Of those articles, only the one that points to Magdeburg can imply "Ireland not being in the race", and even then, they are rumours.

Intel has traditionally been very conservative about mainland Europe and has always doubled-down on Ireland, as we can see from recent investments. Germany has been trying to woo Intel into building a fab there ever since AMD spun off its manufacturing arm to Mubadala. Italy seems a long shot tbh. Its semiconductor experience seems to be limited to STMicroelectronics (the French-Italian company), which has (had?) its fab near Aix-les-Bains in the French Alps.

I've read both the articles and their sources and only the Magdeburg one seems remotely relevant, although it reads like a local newspaper hopefully rooting for investment going to Magdeburg.

Now the company is looking for a location in another EU country for a US$95 billion investment for a new semiconductor plant, as well as upgrades to its current plants in Ireland.

That was the part that mattered in context of what we're discussing, but I guess you didn't read the articles?

I think you're confused about Germany, or semiconductors if that's your conclusion. I guess ABB, Osram, Bosch, Infineon and so on don't make semiconductors according to you, just because they're not for PCs. There are foundries in Austria, Czech Republic, France of course, multiple locations in Germany, , Hungary, Italy (as you mentioned), Netherlands and even a small one in Sweden.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Edit: And it's official, Magdeburg is the new location.
www.techpowerup.com/292960/intel-to-invest-over-eur33-billion-for-semiconductor-r-d-and-manufacturing-in-eu

TheLostSwedeThat was the part that mattered in context of what we're discussing, but I guess you didn't read the articles?

I think you're confused about Germany, or semiconductors if that's your conclusion. I guess ABB, Osram, Bosch, Infineon and so on don't make semiconductors according to you, just because they're not for PCs. There are foundries in Austria, Czech Republic, France of course, multiple locations in Germany, , Hungary, Italy (as you mentioned), Netherlands and even a small one in Sweden.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants

I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Edit: And it's official, Magdeburg is the new location.
www.techpowerup.com/292960/intel-to-invest-over-eur33-billion-for-semiconductor-r-d-and-manufacturing-in-eu

WTH are you going on about?! The UK is not Ireland! How the fuck do you go from Pat Gelsinger saying the UK is no longer a desired location due to Brexit, to considering Ireland is not part of the EU?! Ireland is "another EU country"...!

As for the rest of your reply... seriously? WTH are you smoking? "Confused about Germany"? Holy crap, man. lay off the weed. Of course other countries have fabs. Did I say otherwise? But Italy, Ireland and Germany had explicitly been mentioned in the news trying to court Intel to build a fab.

As for Magdeburg: Congrats. See my first comment rather than piss all over your audience.

LemmingOverlordWTH are you going on about?! The UK is not Ireland! How the fuck do you go from Pat Gelsinger saying the UK is no longer a desired location due to Brexit, to considering Ireland is not part of the EU?! Ireland is "another EU country"...!

As for the rest of your reply... seriously? WTH are you smoking? "Confused about Germany"? Holy crap, man. lay off the weed. Of course other countries have fabs. Did I say otherwise? But Italy, Ireland and Germany had explicitly been mentioned in the news trying to court Intel to build a fab.

As for Magdeburg: Congrats. See my first comment rather than piss all over your audience.

Sorry, but your reading comprehension seems to having some issues.
I'm well aware the UK is not Ireland, but did you even read the news post?
It was about Intel saying no thanks to the UK, but continuing to look for a location in Europe, but at the same time, they also said they'll continue to update and improve their fab in Ireland.
Ireland wouldn't have been a new location now, would it?

Yes, you did, read your reply. You pretty much poo-pooed all of Europe for not having the expertise needed. Germany has a bunch of semiconductor fabs that are making reasonably high-end stuff, so they very much have the expertise.

Weed comes with the death penalty where I live, so no, it's not something I'm playing around with. Thanks for your concern though.

TheLostSwedeWeed comes with the death penalty where I live, so no, it's not something I'm playing around with. Thanks for your concern though.

Hi,
I'd move all though I quit as long time ago that policy is whack lol :laugh: