Monday, September 9th 2024

AMD Confirms Retreat from the Enthusiast GPU Segment, to Focus on Gaining Market-Share

AMD in an interview with Tom's Hardware, confirmed that its next generation of gaming GPUs based on the RDNA 4 graphics architecture will not target the enthusiast graphics segment. Speaking with Paul Alcorn, AMD's Computing and Graphics Business Group head Jack Huynh, said that with its next generation, AMD will focus on gaining market share in the PC gaming graphics market, which means winning price-performance battles against NVIDIA in key mainstream- and performance segments, similar to what it did with the Radeon RX 5000 series based on the original RDNA graphics architecture, and not get into the enthusiast segment that's low-margin with the kind of die-sizes at play, and move low volumes. AMD currently only holds 12% of the gaming discrete GPU market, something it sorely needs to turn around, given that its graphics IP is contemporary.

On a pointed question on whether AMD will continue to address the enthusiast GPU market, given that allocation for cutting-edge wafers are better spent on data-center GPUs, Huynh replied: "I am looking at scale, and AMD is in a different place right now. We have this debate quite a bit at AMD, right? So the question I ask is, the PlayStation 5, do you think that's hurting us? It's $499. So, I ask, is it fun to go King of the Hill? Again, I'm looking for scale. Because when we get scale, then I bring developers with us. So, my number one priority right now is to build scale, to get us to 40 to 50 percent of the market faster. Do I want to go after 10% of the TAM [Total Addressable Market] or 80%? I'm an 80% kind of guy because I don't want AMD to be the company that only people who can afford Porsches and Ferraris can buy. We want to build gaming systems for millions of users. Yes, we will have great, great, great products. But we tried that strategy [King of the Hill]—it hasn't really grown. ATI has tried this King of the Hill strategy, and the market share has kind of been...the market share. I want to build the best products at the right system price point. So, think about price point-wise; we'll have leadership."
Alcorn pressed: "Price point-wise, you have leadership, but you won't go after the flagship market?," to which Huynh replied: "One day, we may. But my priority right now is to build scale for AMD. Because without scale right now, I can't get the developers. If I tell developers, 'I'm just going for 10 percent of the market share,' they just say, 'Jack, I wish you well, but we have to go with Nvidia.' So, I have to show them a plan that says, 'Hey, we can get to 40% market share with this strategy.' Then they say, 'I'm with you now, Jack. Now I'll optimize on AMD.' Once we get that, then we can go after the top."

The exchange seems to confirm that AMD's decision to withdraw from the enthusiast segment is driven mainly by the low volumes it is seeing for the kind of engineering effort and large wafer costs spent building enthusiast-segment GPUs. The company saw great success with its Radeon RX 6800 series and RX 6900 series mainly because the RDNA 2 generation benefited from the GPU-accelerated cryptomining craze, where high-end GPUs were in demand. This demand disappeared by the time AMD rolled out its next-generation Radeon RX 7900 series powered by RDNA 3, and the lack of performance leadership compared to the GeForce RTX 4090 and RTX 4080 with ray tracing enabled, hurt the company's prospects. News of AMD focusing on the performance segment (and below), aligns with the rumors that with RDNA 4, AMD is making a concerted effort to improving its ray tracing performance, to reduce the performance impact of enabling ray tracing. This, raster performance, and efficiency, could be the company's play in gaining market share.

The grand assumption AMD is making here, is that it has a product problem, and not a distribution problem, and that with a product that strikes the right performance/Watt and performance/price equations, it will gain market-share.

Catch the full interview in the source link below.
Source: Tom's Hardware
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271 Comments on AMD Confirms Retreat from the Enthusiast GPU Segment, to Focus on Gaining Market-Share

#176
AusWolf
csendesmarkAs I wrote above, my last Nvidia card was the awesome 8800 GTS 320MB
There was no preference for me between AMD and Nvidia, until the Eyefinity advantage gone.
Would not replace this card, but my next one will be an Nvidia... most likely a 6080 or a 7080 when we get there.
I wasn't suggesting to buy one just for this. :slap:

You could maybe borrow one from a friend, PC shop, etc.

If the AMD display driver really had issues with CS, then other players would have complained, too. So it could be a PSU or motherboard issue, some unstable OC, RAM, hardware or driver incompatibility, or a million other things. Don't point fingers until you rule everything out. Just saying.
Posted on Reply
#177
Bagerklestyne
AusWolfIt doesn't matter, 4K high refresh is still 4090 territory.
I get 300+ fps in league (which is the only thing I care to run at high refresh) everything else can toddle along 60-120 fps
Posted on Reply
#178
AusWolf
DaworaI dont like AMD because so toxic fanbase..
Full of insults and butthurt ppls.
There are toxic fans everywhere, not just with AMD. You only don't see it if you're one yourself, or if you live under a rock.
Daworai just hope there is no AMD at all, All amd fans need to buy Nvidia or intel its like dream comes true
Without AMD, the price of every Nvidia card would skyrocket, not just the high-end. I find it weird having to explain this.
Posted on Reply
#179
csendesmark
AusWolfI wasn't suggesting to buy one just for this. :slap:

You could maybe borrow one from a friend, PC shop, etc.

If the AMD display driver really had issues with CS, then other players would have complained, too. So it could be a PSU or motherboard issue, some unstable OC, RAM, hardware or driver incompatibility, or a million other things. Don't point fingers until you rule everything out. Just saying.
Maybe it is just for me,
You can see my config, my rig can do 100% CPU and 100% GPU for days continuously (handbreak)
Posted on Reply
#180
AusWolf
csendesmarkMaybe it is just for me,
You can see my config, my rig can do 100% CPU and 100% GPU for days continuously (handbreak)
It's probably not about 100% loads, but the small power spikes in lighter loads. Many issues (for example, RAM) only manifest themselves in lightly threaded work.

It might also be something in your GPU driver settings. Some games don't like some features. For example, Radeon Boost turns some games into a stuttery mess.
Posted on Reply
#181
csendesmark
AusWolfIt's probably not about 100% loads, but the small power spikes in lighter loads. Many issues (for example, RAM) only manifest themselves in lightly threaded work.

It might also be something in your GPU driver settings. Some games don't like some features. For example, Radeon Boost turns some games into a stuttery mess.
Maybe, but the 850W PSU should be adequate, other games did not give me trouble
Posted on Reply
#182
Godrilla
AusWolfThere are toxic fans everywhere, not just with AMD. You only don't see it if you're one yourself, or if you live under a rock.


Without AMD, the price of every Nvidia card would skyrocket, not just the high-end. I find it weird having to explain this.
Is the $500 for rdna4 confirmed that everyone is assuming? AMD said they will not compete in high end on performance but leaves the unknown on will they compete with high end on price if rdna3/rtx4000 series supply dries up?
While I do agree without AMD competitive tiers, Nvidia will default to greed in pricing model hence rtx 4090 went up In price and 4080 dropped by $200 when 4080 super dropped; Intel's success would improve duoppoly stagnation game team Red and green are playing. I always had a feeling why is AMD fortying it's position in the midrange now especially when Intel Blackmage can eat its lunch. Are they willing to fall on the sword for Nvidia's sake? Something doesn't add up. Nvidia will allow prices to further swell based on the no competition in the high to enthusiast end with Blackwell. AMD knows prices of silicon is skyrocketing imo they are complacent in the swelling of prices gpus.
Posted on Reply
#183
SchumannFrequency
I have never understood why AMD sells so weakly in the budget segment compared to Nvidia.
I have been buying AMD budget GPUs for a long time.
They always worked perfectly and the performance was always slightly higher than equally expensive Nvidia GPUs.

My four favourite operating systems are Alpine Linux, OpenBSD, Clear Linux and Devuan.
None of these four systems has decent support for Nvidia cards.
Posted on Reply
#184
Draconis
csendesmarkMaybe, but the 850W PSU should be adequate, other games did not give me trouble
Apologies if this is a stupid question but have you reviewed the release notes for the drivers? Is it possibly a known issue with a workaround until a fix is delivered. Possibly something to do with Anti Lag and the cheat trigger?
Posted on Reply
#185
csendesmark
Apologies if this is a stupid question but have you reviewed the release notes for the drivers? Is it possibly a known issue with a workaround until a fix is delivered. Possibly something to do with Anti Lag and the cheat trigger?
Never used any of those features, not interested.
I don't recall anything from the release note regarding cs.
Posted on Reply
#186
chrcoluk
SchumannFrequencyI have never understood why AMD sells so weakly in the budget segment compared to Nvidia.
I have been buying AMD budget GPUs for a long time.
They always worked perfectly and the performance was always slightly higher than equally expensive Nvidia GPUs.

My four favourite operating systems are Alpine Linux, OpenBSD, Clear Linux and Devuan.
None of these four systems has decent support for Nvidia cards.
As said in some replies it will be software, AMD I think by many is considered to be behind Nvidia, and also having the fastest flagship often makes people think its superior in the entire product stack, whether it is or not.

I know you mentioned non Windows OS, but of course Windows is by far the most popular OS, maybe in the nix space AMD is actually the market leader?
Posted on Reply
#187
pmerritt
AusWolfI understand that the midrange is where most of the money is, and therefore, focusing there is a good idea, but how would releasing a high-end chip eat into it? Would it take the development time away from other projects?

Perhaps a bottom-up instead of top-down approach would be good. That is, instead of developing a big chip and cutting it up for lower tiers, maybe they could make a small and efficient midrange chip, and scale it up for high-end?
It's simply another large expense that would be required to produce those higher end GPU's and that large expense has low sell volume so...If they produce a compelling GPU that sells exceedingly well they will have the money to produce the volume required to keep up with demand.
Posted on Reply
#188
Godrilla
chrcolukAs said in some replies it will be software, AMD I think by many is considered to be behind Nvidia, and also having the fastest flagship often makes people think its superior in the entire product stack, whether it is or not.

I know you mentioned non Windows OS, but of course Windows is by far the most popular OS, maybe in the nix space AMD is actually the market leader?
Yea Nvidia also seen the writing on the wall that silicon prices going up and said the only way to squeeze more performance over a future silicon is through software.
Some people believe that if AMD held the crown in gpu performance and all those 7800X3D charts with 4090s at the top of the past 2 years that it wouldn't have made a difference for AMD. yeah I don't see it. If AMD held the crown at a minimum they would have kept market share not lost it. If AMD somehow has revolutionary rt performance with rdna4 it's not like Nvidia is stagnating performance and is limited on cash to squeeze even more performance with Blackwell.
Posted on Reply
#189
RUSerious
AusWolfWithout AMD, the price of every Nvidia card would skyrocket, not just the high-end. I find it weird having to explain this.
I don't think so. Since AMD's Discrete GFX market share is so low, NV can price cards at whatever they want to as long as consumers are willing to pay. There was backlash on calling a card based on the AD104 an RTX 4080 - so Nvidia did adjust to that. There is *some* competition in the low to mid range mainstream - and I guess that's where AMD wants to stay for now.


I don't think AMD has a choice right now. Something like 1/2 of their RDNA design/development group was moved over to the CDNA group. AMD followed the money. They probably don't have the resources right now to try and compete on the high end.
Posted on Reply
#190
Neo_Morpheus
csendesmarkThe rig performs well, no other issues
Except when sometimes LM studio needs to be reloaded, sometimes - but that not ending driver crash
As mentioned in another post, power spikes can create such issues. I had a 850W PSU with my 6900XT and had similar issues.
Swapped the PSU for a better brand and never had any issues.
The error was weird, pointing to a USB device, but coming from the GPU.
See if you can borrow another PSU.
AusWolfFor example, the "what about GameWorks being gimped on AMD" comments... For one, it's an entirely different matter, so there's no "what about" here. Secondly, Nvidia developed GameWorks for Nvidia cards. They probably never even tested it on AMD. Why would they have? Let's be reasonable.
If I didnt knew Ngreedias MO, I would say ok, but Gameworks itslef had some arbitrary code that worked great on their GPUs and like crap on AMD and that was no coincidence.

Do you remember Aegia PhyX?
It was a stand alone card that was GPU agnostic. Ngreedia bought them and integrated on their GPU's.

But in those days, ATI was competitive and even faster than the top of the line Ngreedia GPU, so people were buying ATI's gpu as primary and using a Ngreedia gpu just for PhysX.
Remember what happened after? People started complaining that their Ngreedia GPUs stopped working after a driver update. Well, they were son anticonsumer that they included a check in their drivers, that if it detected an ATI GPU, it would disable their own GPU, the one that you already paid for.

Hairworks was the same nonsense.

So yes, I will not just ignore or forgice such things because they do affect me as a consumer and end up limiting my options.
AusWolfLimiting a lot of games to DLSS only in early days is kind of a similar thing, but for one, it's still a separate issue, and secondly, AMD was late with FSR, so there wasn't really another option anyway.
Same MO, worse results, because before that would be a con on any review, now is praised as a must have "feature".

Actions like that is why I dont like Ngreedia but the funny thing is, people like me get called being toxic for simply not drinking the kool aid.

And yes, I know that in the end these companies simply want money but as a consumer, I cant simply support a company that is limiting my choices.
Posted on Reply
#191
Godrilla
RUSeriousI don't think so. Since AMD's Discrete GFX market share is so low, NV can price cards at whatever they want to as long as consumers are willing to pay. There was backlash on calling a card based on the AD104 an RTX 4080 - so Nvidia did adjust to that. There is *some* competition in the low to mid range mainstream - and I guess that's where AMD wants to stay for now.


I don't think AMD has a choice right now. Something like 1/2 of their RDNA design/development group was moved over to the CDNA group. AMD followed the money. They probably don't have the resources right now to try and compete on the high end.
Yeah I have read this article where they are merging teams.

www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-announces-unified-udna-gpu-architecture-bringing-rdna-and-cdna-together-to-take-on-nvidias-cuda-ecosystem
Posted on Reply
#192
KLMR
chrcolukWell maybe AMD get SGSSAA for one game :D

Its officially being put in a game. Falcon engine used for it.

OMG PLEASE MSAA COME BACK AS SGSSAA.
Between the fuing DLSS and the horrible TAA and unreal engine 5: get less for more... Is there any sharp game left?
I still wonder why there didnt work on AI based SSAA/MSAA, well I know the answer but, please.
Posted on Reply
#193
john_
QuerkleBRING BACK CROSSFIRE! please... ;)
I don't think we have the motherboards for multi GPU solutions any more. 15 years ago we where getting $75 motherboards with 2-3-4 PCIe x16 slots that where working at least as x8 each slot, connected to the North Bridge. Today we get ONE PCIe X16 connected to the CPU and probably one more that is in fact working as x4 connected to the chipset at the happy price of $150+.
Posted on Reply
#194
Easo
I think we all will lose on this. Nvidia has no reason to try that much, as long as there is lead they can keep jacking prices up endlessly.
Posted on Reply
#195
AusWolf
GodrillaIs the $500 for rdna4 confirmed that everyone is assuming? AMD said they will not compete in high end on performance but leaves the unknown on will they compete with high end on price if rdna3/rtx4000 series supply dries up?
While I do agree without AMD competitive tiers, Nvidia will default to greed in pricing model hence rtx 4090 went up In price and 4080 dropped by $200 when 4080 super dropped; Intel's success would improve duoppoly stagnation game team Red and green are playing. I always had a feeling why is AMD fortying it's position in the midrange now especially when Intel Blackmage can eat its lunch. Are they willing to fall on the sword for Nvidia's sake? Something doesn't add up. Nvidia will allow prices to further swell based on the no competition in the high to enthusiast end with Blackwell. AMD knows prices of silicon is skyrocketing imo they are complacent in the swelling of prices gpus.
What are you on about? AMD leaves the top end to Nvidia because the midrange is where money is made, so developing for the top end would be an unnecessary expense. Why think it further?
DaworaSure, but in dGpus 90% of all Toxic ppls are Amd fans, so maybe its better if there is only Nvidia and we all pay more, so we dont need to be so toxic and butthurt everytime anymore.
I call bullshit on that. There are toxic fans and decent people everywhere. Open your eyes, dude.

Also, how good a graphics card is has nothing to do with fans of the brand.
RUSeriousI don't think so. Since AMD's Discrete GFX market share is so low, NV can price cards at whatever they want to as long as consumers are willing to pay. There was backlash on calling a card based on the AD104 an RTX 4080 - so Nvidia did adjust to that. There is *some* competition in the low to mid range mainstream - and I guess that's where AMD wants to stay for now.
People, please stop looking at market share. It's just one arbitrary number that has nothing to do with how a company is doing, or how competitive they are. Or do you think that a street corner burger van has to be on 50-50 market share with McDonald's? Come on...

For now, Nvidia has to be careful not to overprice their cards too much to keep the market share they have. Would anyone buy a 4060 for $500? No, because the 7600 would make much more sense. This is the kind of sensibility we would lose if there was only one graphics card maker.

Why these basic things are so hard to understand, I don't get it. :confused:
Neo_MorpheusAs mentioned in another post, power spikes can create such issues. I had a 850W PSU with my 6900XT and had similar issues.
Swapped the PSU for a better brand and never had any issues.
The error was weird, pointing to a USB device, but coming from the GPU.
See if you can borrow another PSU.

If I didnt knew Ngreedias MO, I would say ok, but Gameworks itslef had some arbitrary code that worked great on their GPUs and like crap on AMD and that was no coincidence.

Do you remember Aegia PhyX?
It was a stand alone card that was GPU agnostic. Ngreedia bought them and integrated on their GPU's.

But in those days, ATI was competitive and even faster than the top of the line Ngreedia GPU, so people were buying ATI's gpu as primary and using a Ngreedia gpu just for PhysX.
Remember what happened after? People started complaining that their Ngreedia GPUs stopped working after a driver update. Well, they were son anticonsumer that they included a check in their drivers, that if it detected an ATI GPU, it would disable their own GPU, the one that you already paid for.

Hairworks was the same nonsense.

So yes, I will not just ignore or forgice such things because they do affect me as a consumer and end up limiting my options.

Same MO, worse results, because before that would be a con on any review, now is praised as a must have "feature".

Actions like that is why I dont like Ngreedia but the funny thing is, people like me get called being toxic for simply not drinking the kool aid.

And yes, I know that in the end these companies simply want money but as a consumer, I cant simply support a company that is limiting my choices.
I didn't mention these things to start talking about the past. But in any case, I said what I said. Nvidia bought Ageia with PhysX and all other IPs, so why would they have left it to rot instead of developing for it? Is using IP that you legally own anti-competitive? Should they have spent extra resource to make sure it runs equally well on AMD? Why would they have? If you gain some advantage in a race, should you give it up on purpose because... Reasons? Like I said, be reasonable, please.
Posted on Reply
#196
Godrilla
AusWolfWhat are you on about? AMD leaves the top end to Nvidia because the midrange is where money is made, so developing for the top end would be an unnecessary expense. Why think it further?
Sorry because I don't like the monopoly where we are heading. I believe you are correct the fat of the market is in the midrange, unfortunately their is a few blind spots for just focusing on the midrange. While some ignore the importance of mindshare has from holding the crown, let's extrapolate current market behavior with that strategy. AMD lost market share and this is with most Tech media including myself heavily promoting rdna 3 as the best value outside of rt performance. AMD risks losing further market share If Intel's Battlemage is a success in rt performance superior to rdna 4. A simple paper launch at the high end will likely do wonders for their mind share especially with gamers don't see rtx at the top all the time. Some see that focusing on the midrange is the lowest risk/ for highest reward I see it very risky if Intel somehow ends it's losing streak lol with Battlemage.

AMD is betting to much of Battlemage failing imo.
Posted on Reply
#197
AusWolf
GodrillaSorry because I don't like the monopoly where we are heading. I believe you are correct the fat of the market is in the midrange, unfortunately their is a few blind spots for just focusing on the midrange. While some ignore the importance of mindshare has from holding the crown, let's extrapolate current market behavior with that strategy. AMD lost market share and this is with most Tech media including myself heavily promoting rdna 3 as the best value outside of rt performance. AMD risks losing further market share If Intel's Battlemage is a success in rt performance superior to rdna 4. A simple paper launch at the high end will likely do wonders for their mind share especially with gamers don't see rtx at the top all the time. Some see that focusing on the midrange is the lowest risk/ for highest reward I see it very risky if Intel somehow ends it's losing streak lol with Battlemage.

AMD is betting to much of Battlemage failing imo.
Developing for the high-end didn't work with RDNA 3, so spending huge amounts on failing again would make little sense. People only want a high-end AMD card to bring Nvidia's prices down so they can keep buying from the green team. Spending less on R&D and manufacturing smaller chips with better margins in the field that's more profitable makes total sense, imo. It doesn't lead to a monopoly, quite the contrary. Spending less, and maximising income in the midrange could be a good strategy to increase market share. Sure, the high-end will suffer, but it has for the last I don't know how many years, so who cares?

Edit: This is similar to a driver in any motorsport running low on fuel just before the end of the race. As the strategist, you're not gonna ask him to go full blast and risk having to pit before the end of the race while half of the lineup drives past him. No, you're gonna ask him to start saving fuel without losing too many positions. You may lose the podium, but there's no reason to lose the entire race as well.
Posted on Reply
#198
Godrilla
AusWolfDeveloping for the high-end didn't work with RDNA 3, so spending huge amounts on failing again would make little sense. People only want a high-end AMD card to bring Nvidia's prices down so they can keep buying from the green team. Spending less on R&D and manufacturing smaller chips with better margins in the field that's more profitable makes total sense, imo. It doesn't lead to a monopoly, quite the contrary. Spending less, and maximising income in the midrange could be a good strategy to increase market share. Sure, the high-end will suffer, but it has for the last I don't know how many years, so who cares?
I hope the strategy doesn't backfire. Although if they get it wrong gamers in the midrange will win from a price war so there is hope.
Posted on Reply
#199
csendesmark
Neo_MorpheusSwapped the PSU for a better brand and never had any issues.
How do you upgrade to a better brand from a Seasonic :D
Also would repeat, that with the 24.8.1 driver were really bad while the 24.6.1 is much better, it is a software issue.
Posted on Reply
#200
Super XP
DaworaI dont like AMD because so toxic fanbase..
Full of insults and butthurt ppls.

i just hope there is no AMD at all, All amd fans need to buy Nvidia or intel its like dream comes true
AMD fanbase toxic? Umm NOPE

If you do your due diligence, you will realize that all 3 AMD, Intel & Nvidia have fanboys, some toxic and some not. The many prefer certain brands while others prefer all 3 based on Price/Performance.

If you ventured onto other sites like w c c F t e c h for example, Nvidia and Intel owners are highly toxic & wish AMD go bankrupt so that Nvidia & Intel would be the only choice. They themselves admit if that ever happens, the prices for CPUs and GPUs would be much more expensive.
AusWolfDeveloping for the high-end didn't work with RDNA 3, so spending huge amounts on failing again would make little sense. People only want a high-end AMD card to bring Nvidia's prices down so they can keep buying from the green team. Spending less on R&D and manufacturing smaller chips with better margins in the field that's more profitable makes total sense, imo. It doesn't lead to a monopoly, quite the contrary. Spending less, and maximising income in the midrange could be a good strategy to increase market share. Sure, the high-end will suffer, but it has for the last I don't know how many years, so who cares?

Edit: This is similar to a driver in any motorsport running low on fuel just before the end of the race. As the strategist, you're not gonna ask him to go full blast and risk having to pit before the end of the race while half of the lineup drives past him. No, you're gonna ask him to start saving fuel without losing too many positions. You may lose the podium, but there's no reason to lose the entire race as well.
The only main thing that differentiates AMD with Nvidia regarding high end GPUs (Which are close to each other in performance) is Ray Tracing. That's it. If it wasn't for Nvidia's RT, they wouldn't be viewed as the top dog.

Today they are viewed as offering the WORST Price/Performance/Watt/FPS on the planet.
Neo_MorpheusAs mentioned by another poster, waffers are expensive and since no matter what they offer, people keep buying Ngreedia, then they are approaching the tier which might given them more returns.

Given how stupid the current devotion to everything Ngreedia these past years, those people will still buy Ngreedia, hence they wont need a price cut. Example, 7900xtx are as good as 4080’s, but cheaper, yet everyone is buying …4080s.

Yes, the RT bs, dlss lockin, etc, but ignore those and you have a good gpu thats ignored.

See my responses above.

Example, I got a 7900xtx for around 800 and 2 pack in games worth 170, so around 600+ plus, yet very few bothered in buying them, instead went with 4080s and even 4070s.

The worst thing is that 99.9% of the YouTube influencers dont even mention, less show any AMD gpus on their videos.

So potential buyers are not even aware that they have an option.
One way AMD can get ahead of this image is surprising the PC gaming industry by an "Unexpected High End" surprise launch at an affordable price. But still priced strategically for AMD to make a profit.

This of course would force Nvidia to drop it's prices & also upset Nvidia owners for overpaying too.
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