Sound_CardThe Green psychosis in this thread is wild lol.

wolfI found that people I'd consider green leaning give the bottom line on the 5070 = 4090 questions rather well across multiple threads/discussions.
There is, if we're to use your choice of terminology, plenty of "red psychosis" too around here, so perhaps there's some other specifics you'd like to comment on rather than throw divisive name calling shade? It's a discussion, respond to points with your own points.

It isn't about "green" vs. another "green" (or "red" which it is not). It's about market shares and real shipments count.

3valatzyIt isn't about "green" vs. another "green" (or "red" which it is not). It's about market shares and real shipments count.

I was responding to someone else's specific comment that did imply that... but lets say it is about market shares and shipment counts, do you have something to discuss on that topic? I don't really understand your comment.

Sound_CardPartly yes, do you have any idea how easily people bought the 5070 is as fast as the 4090? I'm not talking about the upper 1% that browse these forums. But your casuals that get their tech info from social media, zoomers.

Your average consumer is mildly retarded, yes.

The casuals don't know who Jensen huang is, they don't know what CES is and there is no way in hell they watched the thing

AusWolf550 is still not bad for a 4080 class GPU, imo. 600 would be stretching it. Sure, AMD is perceived as "the budget friendly" option, but they can't offer discounts to no end.



Placeholder price.

729e here

DaworaMore marketshare for Nvidia is upcoming..

Are you sure?
Let's see.

AusWolfWhat are you talking about?

Where have you been? RX 5000 series will not run Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I’ve mentioned this in the past, you need to pay better attention.

store.steampowered.com/app/2909400/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_REBIRTH/

Visible NoiseWhere have you been? RX 5000 series will not run Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I’ve mentioned this in the past, you need to pay better attention.

store.steampowered.com/app/2909400/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_REBIRTH/

Indiana Jones too. Older cheaper nvidia cards will run it. Fascinating huh?

JustBenchinggamestream (which is guttered now tbf - nvidia removed it from their new APP!!)

Nvidia dropped official support for gamestream (IIRC), but Moonlight is still alive and well. Thanks to Sunshine, you can even use it with an AMD GPU on the host, which doesn't even have to run Windows. I use this software daily. It's by far the best option for in-home streaming, certainly for games, but it also works for remote desktop. Every time this topic comes up, in fact, I'm reminded of how brutally inferior Steam's variant of in-home streaming is.

The gamestream thing is illustrative of the whole story here. History shows that Nvidia tends to innovate with some (semi-)proprietary feature, which is then improved upon and/or opened up by other players, notably AMD (e.g. Freesync), and then finally the entire user base benefits. We were potentially on track for a similar story with FSR, but AMD just didn't have the juice. It's still possible, I suppose, that major game studios and GPU manufacturers will come to some sort of agreement to standardize upscalers, once enough time has passed with a sufficient number of GPU generations featuring the requisite hardware--or if not the upscalers themselves then the workflow to implement them. My understanding is that DLSS and XeSS aren't all that dissimilar from a game developer's perspective, even now.

Both companies (or I guess all three companies, these days) play a crucial role in the GPU market, which is why I hate seeing AMD make so many unforced errors.

WastelandNvidia dropped official support for gamestream (IIRC), but Moonlight is still alive and well. Thanks to Sunshine, you can even use it with an AMD GPU on the host, which doesn't even have to run Windows. I use this software daily. It's by far the best option for in-home streaming, certainly for games, but it also works for remote desktop. Every time this topic comes up, in fact, I'm reminded of how brutally inferior Steam's variant of in-home streaming is.

The gamestream thing is illustrative of the whole story here. History shows that Nvidia tends to innovate with some (semi-)proprietary feature, which is then improved upon and/or opened up by other players, notably AMD (e.g. Freesync), and then finally the entire user base benefits. We were potentially on track for a similar story with FSR, but AMD just didn't have the juice. It's still possible, I suppose, that major game studios and GPU manufacturers will come to some sort of agreement to standardize upscalers, once enough time has passed with a sufficient number of GPU generations featuring the requisite hardware--or if not the upscalers themselves then the workflow to implement them. My understanding is that DLSS and XeSS aren't all that dissimilar from a game developer's perspective, even now.

Both companies (or I guess all three companies, these days) play a crucial role in the GPU market, which is why I hate seeing AMD make so many unforced errors.

Yeah I know about sunshine but it doesn't play nice with my switch + moonlight for whatever reason.

Nvidia has dropped support indeed but you could still use it, it's when the new app becomes mandatory that it will go kaput since they removed the option altogether.

Since this now an red vs green thread, are there any red or green high end cards that use the 8-pin PCIe power connector and are 2 slots or slimmer? I'd settle for a water cooled card if it can be made 1 slot wide.

JustBenchingYeah I know about sunshine but it doesn't play nice with my switch + moonlight for whatever reason.

Nvidia has dropped support indeed but you could still use it, it's when the new app becomes mandatory that it will go kaput since they removed the option altogether.

Yeah, I should have been clearer that Sunshine isn't just for AMD. It's for Nvidia too, once their app drops the option. (Or if you're not running Windows on the host.)

If Sunshine isn't working for you, and if your host is on Windows, Parsec is quite good.

JustBenchingIndiana Jones too. Older cheaper nvidia cards will run it. Fascinating huh?

Features matter, regardless of some people wanting to hand wave them away.

DudeBeFishingSince this now an red vs green thread, are there any red or green high end cards that use the 8-pin PCIe power connector and are 2 slots or slimmer? I'd settle for a water cooled card if it can be made 1 slot wide.

Single, double, or triple 8-pin?

wolfThose people are fools, perhaps another free example further down...

Yes, and there's a lot of them. That's my point.

wolfDo you agree that some, perhaps many might place value on that?

I'm not arguing that people see value in it. I just don't know why. Like I said, I never had issues ruining new games on old drivers.

wolfI don't think it's a stretch to say users that main Linux are in the minority, perhaps even a very small minority. Valid perspective for sure, but not one for most buyers. You have very adequately bought what suits your needs the most. Given a couple of examples here, my assertion is that you are an exception to the majority.

I'm definitely the minority there. It was just a sidenote anyway.

wolfI don't like the question you were asked. 1, far too vague. 2, entirely hypothetical. I find more often than not when engaged in... lets call it debate, hypothetical questions serve little meaning as the responder is free to answer however they choose without ever having to face any real world consequence to that answer or having to put their money where their mouth is. Life is rarely so simple. I'd have tried to be more specific in many ways. Perhaps... my example might have been... let say you are freely offered one of two vehicles. Either one you choose, you keep for 3 years, then hand the keys back. Both have zero cost attached, no fuel or ancillary running costs, no insurance, no servicing or consumables, nothing - all inclusive and all headaches and costs are completely below the waterline to you, taking the same amount of time if they occurred, with zero difference in any ramifications to you beyond what you get to use and enjoy for 3 years. The choices on offer are a 2024 Toyota Crown, or a 2024 MG 3, - which do you choose? Noting of course, that I open myself to this hypothetical again, the cars could be argued to not directly compete, and you can perhaps see through my question as to what I am trying to get at, and could easily choose what virtually nobody would because [insert stretch of an argument/extremely niche and/or personal reason here], totally hypothetical so it's oh so easy to just choose the option here that aligns to your POV in this uhhh ... debate. But I believe this is at the very least adjacent to the point in this thread.

Personally, I would choose the MG 3 because it's smaller, easier to park, and I don't have kids, so don't need a big car. I imagine a lot of people would choose the Toyota because they do have big families. But I also imagine a lot of people would choose the Toyota simply because it's the more prestigious brand. This last part is my problem here.

Dawora729e here

It hasn't even been released.

Visible NoiseWhere have you been? RX 5000 series will not run Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I’ve mentioned this in the past, you need to pay better attention.

store.steampowered.com/app/2909400/FINAL_FANTASY_VII_REBIRTH/

Why? Does it have some sort of forced RT by default? It's hardly the RX 5000 series' fault, imo.

Visible NoiseFeatures matter, regardless of some people wanting to hand wave them away.

Nah!

It's unfortunate that the collaboration with NVIDIA has made ray tracing (+ DLSS 3.5 for the perf) a requirement for the game. While performance enthusiasts like us will have the hardware to enjoy it, the broader gaming community will see this as a luxury out of reach. It feels like a heavy handed move to push ray tracing adoption, leveraging the influence of the green giant.

These features only 'matter' when they're deliberately made unavoidable in titles we want to play.

DLSS is the only feature i'm truly interested in, particularly for enhancing performance in 4K higher resolution gaming. Soon i'll be a upgrading my living room 4K tele with a high refresh rate OLED panel so this feature will bring more meaningful value. For my 'main' desktop gamer, I'm on a high refresh rate 1440p panel and excited to see how this technology can evolve and be further optimized for 1440p. So far, none of the features on my Nvidia cards have left a significant impression. More often than not, the experience has felt underwhelming compared to the quality and performance of native settings with some fine-tuned quality settings.

Bottom line, its a never a positive outcome for the exclusion of lower end or previous gen hardware with features which are resource intensive. Alienating the wider audience in a game where ray tracing could have been offered as an optional feature is a decision that deserves criticism rather than praise.

AusWolfWhy? Does it have some sort of forced RT by default? It's hardly the RX 5000 series' fault, imo.

It doesn’t matter why. What matters is the RX 5000 is missing a required feature that is present on RTX 2000.

Visible NoiseIt doesn’t matter why. What matters is the RX 5000 is missing a required feature that is present on RTX 2000.

And how is that relevant to the topic at hand?

Edit: Not to mention, it's the game developer who chose to alienate a part of their customer base, so shame on them.

wheresmycarIt's unfortunate that the collaboration with NVIDIA has made ray tracing (+ DLSS 3.5 for the perf) a requirement for the game. While performance enthusiasts like us will have the hardware to enjoy it, the broader gaming community will see this as a luxury out of reach. It feels like a heavy handed move to push ray tracing adoption, leveraging the influence of the green giant.

It’s a PS5 port. Nvidia isn’t involved.

AusWolfAnd how is that relevant to the topic at hand?

Edit: Not to mention, it's the game developer who chose to alienate a part of their customer base, so shame on them.

Deflect away.

Visible NoiseDeflect away.

You didn't answer the question. Last I checked, this was a 9070 XT thread, not an RX 5000 one, and the discussion was about choices in GPUs today, not in 2019.

AusWolfYou didn't answer the question. Last I checked, this was a 9070 XT thread, not an RX 5000 one, and the discussion was about choices in GPUs today, not in 2019.

Just providing evidence that missing features matter and AMD GPUs are obsolete. Do try to keep up.

Visible NoiseJust providing evidence that missing features matter and AMD GPUs are obsolete. Do try to keep up.

Which AMD GPUs? The 5000 series doesn't have RT so they're all trash? On that logic, Nvidia's 10 and 16 series doesn't have RT, either, so Nvidia is trash, too. :kookoo:

It's a straw man argument.

What happens the day AMD produces GPU features expressed through a game or tech demo that precludes nVidia rendering?
Do we get another feature pivot or even louder screeching from sea to shining sea?

AusWolfWhich AMD GPUs? The 5000 series doesn't have RT so they're all trash? On that logic, Nvidia's 10 and 16 series doesn't have RT, either, so Nvidia is trash, too. :kookoo:

It's a straw man argument.

The 10 series was released in 2015. The 5700xt was released in 2019, a full year after Turing that can run the game. I mean come on,nvidia cards that are older and cheaper than the 5700xt can run the game. The 5700xt can't. Clearly, greedy planned obsolescence is what we'd be reading if it was an nvidia gpu. Now it's just Friday :D

DaemonForceWhat happens the day AMD produces GPU features expressed through a game or tech demo that precludes nVidia rendering?
Do we get another feature pivot or even louder screeching from sea to shining sea?

That game will probably not sell very well considering it targets like less than 10% of the market. Why is that relevant though?

JustBenchingThat game will probably not sell very well considering it targets like less than 10% of the market. Why is that relevant though?

If a feature were to pick up momentum for the next HL2 or Portal, people will notice. That stirs interest in consoles that can do the thing because AMD.
It's not a hard selling point when consoles already lean AMD but I think you get the picture. People are drawn to stupid gimmicks.
PC gamers don't care for RT/PT. The normies that screech about it literally believe nVidia invented ray tracing. When features get forced, that becomes the reality.
I'm not expecting anything like that to happen from AMD but when I pick up a "9000" series card, I'm leery about feature specifics that surface almost immediately.
The last time it happened to me the label was ATi and there was major DX9 feature lockout. We haven't seen any ATi/AMD demos in a while so maybe we're overdue.

wheresmycarNah!

It's unfortunate that the collaboration with NVIDIA has made ray tracing (+ DLSS 3.5 for the perf) a requirement for the game. While performance enthusiasts like us will have the hardware to enjoy it, the broader gaming community will see this as a luxury out of reach. It feels like a heavy handed move to push ray tracing adoption, leveraging the influence of the green giant.

These features only 'matter' when they're deliberately made unavoidable in titles we want to play.

DLSS is the only feature i'm truly interested in, particularly for enhancing performance in 4K higher resolution gaming. Soon i'll be a upgrading my living room 4K tele with a high refresh rate OLED panel so this feature will bring more meaningful value. For my 'main' desktop gamer, I'm on a high refresh rate 1440p panel and excited to see how this technology can evolve and be further optimized for 1440p. So far, none of the features on my Nvidia cards have left a significant impression. More often than not, the experience has felt underwhelming compared to the quality and performance of native settings with some fine-tuned quality settings.

Bottom line, its a never a positive outcome for the exclusion of lower end or previous gen hardware with features which are resource intensive. Alienating the wider audience in a game where ray tracing could have been offered as an optional feature is a decision that deserves criticism rather than praise.

This is the logical post one should universally agree on. It's known for 5 years now that 5700XT doesn't have RT nor does one of the best cards to ever have been released, the 1080Ti, which was launched 2 years prior to the 5700XT and still is very popular and can decently drive almost all games with some quality settings adjusted as it's still great for raster.

But no, it's gotta be a pissfest of course. "Hey AMD sucks/ages terribly because their 5 year old AMD card can't run this game!" conveniently ignoring the fact that this is 100% on the game devs being lazy with the port and alienating one of the popular nvidia cards still in use today as well and I absolutely wouldn't be surprised if Nv had a hand in it just because of their track record. Doesn't matter either way because gamers lose out on the end, period. Like literally there's no argument to be had here.

Also, sure the 2xxx series "supports" the game just because it can do RT but if this game by default uses RT, you can say goodbye to performance because the 2xxx generation only supported RT but couldn't actually play a game with RT on for the life of it.

Visible NoiseJust providing evidence that missing features matter and AMD GPUs are obsolete. Do try to keep up.

Lookup the word "obsolete" and maybe edit your post because clearly you have no clue what it means.

Visible NoiseJust providing evidence that missing features matter and AMD GPUs are obsolete. Do try to keep up.

The 5700XT was a $400 card, same price as the 2060Super. I wonder how good the latter can play the latest UE5+ games with integrated RT even at 1080p and with what sort of gaming experience.
Or if we mean they can just start it, but with very low settings, cudos for the bragging rights!
I rather not touch it until I can grab something that can give a nice visual experience along with the story.

Based on the title of the thread and the rumors so far, is the 9070s lacking any features for running these games?

What is this campaign against anything AMD does in the GPU space?