Yay for Nvidia spokesmen telling us All ATI products suck and Nvidia is better in every single thread that even mentions ATI.

alexp999I doubt it, it uses a "new" GPU, the RV790. That is probably the main reason for a GPU name change, so that people cannot flash 4870s to 4890s.

alex you beat me to my already super-quick edit :toast:

Lol lets not compare who's better who. It haven't been release to public yet. Until then Nvidia is still the king of "rebranded"... I mean king of performance.

johnnyfiiveLet me just say this, I was really glad to get a XFX GTX 260 216 Black Edition months ago and everytime I see a revised card come out from NVidia and now ATi (*shakes head*) it ensures me that I made the right choice at the time. All these revamped, renamed, re-released cards is getting crazy.

BS NV do it so often it feels like every week lol.. ATI done it what how many times lol ?

ShogoXTI myself was hoping for a few more shaders.

That be the 5xxx range witch is later this year hopefully.


Wish they used a different cooler on it as mines running nice and cool here.

niko084I'm yet to have any issue with any 4850/4870..
I think people are trying to put them in their Dell's without any air movement in the case that's causing the issues.

Can't count the times I have seen 3850/3870, 8800 and 9800s in small cases with no air movement and wonder why after an hour of gaming they start artifacting.

Yeah same here seems like a lot of people put these newer cards in bad air vented cases.

johnnyfiiveAll these revamped, renamed, re-released cards is getting crazy.

This is nothing compared to the 7 Series and the x1xxx series they had thousands of suffixes gt gs gso gtx xtx etc

AsRockYeah same here seems like a lot of people put these newer cards in bad air vented cases.

You have a Thermaltake Armor and the modded CHENMING and niko has the Antec300. Both are far from being typical mainstream cases and you probably keep them clean, etc. Almost no one here in TPU has a bad case, but there are plenty of cases with bad cooling and most people have those "bad" cases. Average Joe has not the required knowledge to know which case has a good airflow and which one doesn't, so they just buy whichever looks better for them. A case can have 5 fans and have a poor ventilation, there are many cases like that out there. And even good cases go to waste after some dust gets inside and in the filters and joe just doesn't clean them. Not to mention the dust in the cards cooler.

What's this? So much discussion over the lil card, lol. My eyes started bleeding after the 15th post or so xD.
Whatever the case, since I don't have a HD4870 or GTX285, this will most likely be my next GPU upgrade, only because ATi is cool, ^_^.

If I were looking to upgrade my graphics card soon, I would wait for the GT300 and 58xx series.

I had read a preview on this card and I had thought the GDDR5 was supposed to be different from the chips on the 4870. Tighter timings and faster clock...is that true?

DarkMatterIt was hypothetically speaking. You are asking me not to talk about heat/noise, because we have no info about that, so wouldn't I have the right to do the same regarding performance?

(communication break down)
No, I never said this nor implied that you shouldn't. What I did say is "..it will not stop others from buying the product if this card can produce frame rates that are close to the GTX 285 at a much lower price structure."

DarkMatterEDIT: Oh and no I'm not serious there, nor didn't I take an offense. :laugh: I was just hypothetically speaking, as I stated above: if you censure me, why wouldn't I censure you? I know the card will probably be much faster, and I too know it will be hotter. I just want both posibilities to be mentioned. I always want truth, the whole truth, not skewed information, something that Ati and Nvidia fans do very well.

Again, we have another communication break down. I never said or imply to censor you but state that if the performance justify what they've done to the card IMO not many will care.

DarkMatterHow is it legitimally assumed that the card will be almost as fast as 285 (you said so in the other post) when GTX285 is more than 30% faster than HD4870 and the new one has only 13% higher clocks??

And at the same time how is not legitimate to do an assumption about the heat/noise, based on OCed HD4870's? Higher noise comes from higher rpms in the fan FYI.

Again, you have a problem understanding my post. I can say "..it will not stop others from buying the product if this card can produce frame rates that are close to the GTX 285 at a much lower price structure..." if I think that there are other factors involved beside heat and noise.

DarkMatterOnce again, I was speaking hypothetically. It's not me the one who said we shouldn't speak/speculate about one aspect of the cards. It was you who pretty much censured our opinions about heat/noise because we don't know anything yet. I just said we neither know anything about performance, so we shouldn't assume/speculate either. I vote for speculating, but uncensored.

:laugh:
Nah, I am not censoring anyone's opinion. From my prospective the heat and noise are not the only things we should be concerned with. We must also factor in performance, price and availability (among other things).


Having posted this response to you I believe I have made myself as clear as possible. In any case, the direction in which this has turned out has run it's course IMO. ;)

alexp999If I were looking to upgrade my graphics card soon, I would wait for the GT300 and 58xx series.

Which won't happen until at least the 2nd half.
Sure I would too love to see what those DirectX11 cards have to offer, but we all know, waiting for technology = bad thing. By the time I want to upgrade again, we'll be seeing something like DirectX11.1 and the HD68xx / GT400, lol, or maybe even when DirectX12 is out in like 2013 xD.

DarkMatterHD4000 cards have issues in many PCs and not only those with zero airflow. There's problems in hot areas even with relatively good airflow too. Anyway, IMHO a company that is so proud of saying they develop cards for the mainstream, should make their cards work without issues in ANY PC and not only in those of semi-enthusiasts. Almost NONE of my gamer friends clean the inside of their PCs more than once in a year, nor they have uber efficient cases with many fans.

As I said I put them in cases that no side vents and a single very low cfm 120mm fan in the rear, granted its a standard ATX midtower, but it's far from anything special.

I can understand yes it would be great if they just worked in everything. So maybe they should cut their line at the 4550, I mean that "probably" wont overheat in anything. At the same rate, I guess people should put blankets over their TV's and motor manufacturers should make all your car engines air cooled.

There is a line between what is possible and what isn't, and in those lines you have to follow what the consumer demands. Let's be real, everyone out there wants a sub $200 card and most people want a sub $500 computer that will do everything they want it to do for the next 5+ years.

So we have 3 options, ATI and Nvidia stop making great high end graphics cards, they only sell them complete with systems sold directly by them with detailed instructions on how to clean them and take care of them, or a few people that don't have a clue have problems, I mean I guess we could start paying $750usd for a 4850 and a 9800GTX and they can put tons more money into R&D and create a more efficient card, obviously pricing can follow up the trail from there.

I wish they wouldn't have issues in anything myself, but the simple fact is, in the market, with the demand it simply cannot be done, and as a business man I understand that.

BaamYay for Nvidia spokesmen telling us All ATI products suck and Nvidia is better in every single thread that even mentions ATI.

Just ignore them, never feed trolls!

I know that GTX 280 will still 'win' in the heat/wattage :) Will be interesting to see how close it gets though. 1GB seems to be the new 512MB now. 9800gtx+ 512MB went to 1GB in GTS 250 form and HD4870 512MB goes to 1GB in HD4890

johnnyfiiveLet me just say this, I was really glad to get a XFX GTX 260 216 Black Edition months ago and everytime I see a revised card come out from NVidia and now ATi (*shakes head*) it ensures me that I made the right choice at the time. All these revamped, renamed, re-released cards is getting crazy.

At least ATI isn't rebranding this as with completely different numbers and calling it something like the 5870, I don't know how you can shake your head?

alexp999I doubt it, it uses a "new" GPU, the RV790. That is probably the main reason for a GPU name change, so that people cannot flash 4870s to 4890s.

Well that would be pretty dangerous considering they also changed some aspects of the board itself.

I don't know how well I agree with this rename... It's not as bold as others, but I would still like to see new tech :)

I think it's good the 5000's and what ever nvidia is coming up with isn't out yet. I think these cards create a good competition. I hate the "new series" every few months, I liked it when the 8800GTX reined supreme, and I liked it when the 4870X2 reined supreme. Nothing could beat them until the other brought something out that did.

niko084I don't know how well I agree with this rename... It's not as bold as others, but I would still like to see new tech :)

I don't see this as a rename at all.. More like GTX 280 to GTX 285. They just used different technic to get higher clocks out of product than nvidia (die shrink).

If there was no GTX 260 216 shaders, there would be no HD 4870 1GB and thus this would have more differences to HD 4870.

ATI & NVIDIA fighting leaves less room for future innovations, if they only went back to 1 year product cycle.

lemonadesodaCome on AMD! Out with new architecture and 40nm!

New arch? Not likely. I think r600 going to be the base for r800 series too. But i could be wrong :)

GzeroOh and DarkMatter stop hating on ATI. I can see your specs, I know your preference ;)

Nothing wrong with the hd4x series, nothing wrong with this bump. It's not like Nvidia ever did this (7800 - 7900, 8800gt -> 9600/9800) *cough*

He doesn't hate ati, just thinks nvidia is better in every aspect.

IMO 7800->7900 (g70->g71) was not a rename, there were minor architectural improvements too.

OnBoardI don't see this as a rename at all.. More like GTX 280 to GTX 285. They just used different technic to get higher clocks out of product than nvidia (die shrink).

If there was no GTX 260 216 shaders, there would be no HD 4870 1GB and thus this would have more differences to HD 4870.

ATI & NVIDIA fighting leaves less room for future innovations, if they only went back to 1 year product cycle.

That's what I mean, it's not as bad as 8800-9800..
It's just ugh, I want to see new cores and new development, not working with old stuff...

I would love it if they went back to 1yr cycles.

EastCoasthandle(communication break down)
No, I never said this nor implied that you shouldn't. What I did say is "..it will not stop others from buying the product if this card can produce frame rates that are close to the GTX 285 at a much lower price structure."




Again, we have another communication break down. I never said or imply to censor you but state that if the performance justify what they've done to the card IMO not many will care.



Again, you have a problem understanding my post. I can say "..it will not stop others from buying the product if this card can produce frame rates that are close to the GTX 285 at a much lower price structure..." if I think that there are other factors involved beside heat and noise.





:laugh:
Nah, I am not censoring anyone's opinion. From my prospective the heat and noise are not the only things we should be concerned with. We must also factor in performance, price and availability (among other things).


Having posted this response to you I believe I have made myself as clear as possible. In any case, the direction in which this has turned out has run it's course IMO. ;)

I'm not talking about that sentence at all, so I don't know why you have to filter and bound all my responses to that sentence. I (we) said this card could have heat issues, and is a legitimate guesstimation. You are disscussing that all the time. Me slightly mentioning your performance commentary and what I said afterwards is just to make a parallelism to what you are doing. And yes you are censoring me all the time, by saying that heat/noise issues shouldn't be commented (and I quote):

In all, we either have to wait for:
A. Some insider information
B. Actual review of the card

Which is why I said that further information will become available when:
A. Insider information is made public
B. Official Review

Having said that, we really don't know the heat and noise regarding this video card until:
A. Someone provides insider information
B. Official review

I see no relation that one should or should not do it based on arch and board design. As I've said before we will know more about this when:
A. Insider information is provided
B. Official review

If only writen one time means nothing, but so many times it's a clear attempt to divert attention to another thing and indirectly censore our opinions regarding heat/noise, because you can't do it directly.

On the other hand I never said that the card wouldn't sell or will not be a good fast card, in fact I never said anything wrong about the card. HD4870 overheats in many situations, that doesn't make it a worse option for most of the people, but it does have to be taken into account. The first 8800 GT had severe overheating issues too and was something I took care off when I bought my card (and it was a fact widely and openly said in TPU, but you can't say anything about Ati except :rockout: always or you are a Nvidia fanboy). I even recommended to stay away from the 8800GT to a pair of friends until they got a better ventilation on their cases (it endeed up being the new, much improved, cooler which made me "allow" them to buy it in the end). This card has all the tickets to be worse in that department and it's legitimate to be concerned about it, from the simple curiosity of a tech enthusiast, and in order to better help people.

Lots of opinions considering there are no official specifications yet. I'll hold judgement to see what the GPU is really all about. Yes, it is "based" directly from the RV770, which means that physical changes could have indeed been made. After that, it all cames down to performance and on the price side of things I don't think anyone is going to be really dissapointed with that.

I wonder if we will see binned RV790's as 4870's.

DrPepperI wonder if we will see binned RV790's as 4870's.

Most likely.