Now we all now the problems the 4870 faced when it started, AMD even had to release a driver that stopped furmark overheating it, to the point it would artifact and crash.

Bullshit.

If your a Nvidia fan go to a post to talk about them,I have a Palit 4870 that idles on 45 % fan at 35 c and never goes over 58 on load so I again say BULLSHIT with heat and noise issues on the 4870.


As for the 4890 it could be the handpick rv770xt chips that overclock well or even the shader clock increase ....Who knows until the benchmark an reviews chime in ......


Ps how come the 280 are the highest fail rate and look the 4870 is low uhmmmmmm More Bullshit i think ....www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-18/16arxxx.png

DarkMatterMailMan, if you have them in Crossfire, I'm just wondering if you have one just above the other and the Visiontek happens to be the one on top, because that could be the problem.

No I put the Asus on top. It had a much larger fan on it and I was "hoping" it would cool the visiontek better. I might switch them and see what happens tonight. Anyway here are my two cards...

H82LUZ73Now we all now the problems the 4870 faced when it started, AMD even had to release a driver that stopped furmark overheating it, to the point it would artifact and crash.

Bullshit.

If your a Nvidia fan go to a post to talk about them,I have a Palit 4870 that idles on 45 % fan at 35 c and never goes over 58 on load so I again say BULLSHIT with heat and noise issues on the 4870.


As for the 4890 it could be the handpick rv770xt chips that overclock well or even the shader clock increase ....Who knows until the benchmark an reviews chime in ......


Ps how come the 280 are the highest fail rate and look the 4870 is low uhmmmmmm More Bullshit i think ....www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-18/16arxxx.png

Don't know if that was directed at me or not but:

ATI Deliberately Retards Catalyst for FurMark

Just cus I have an NVIDIA card doesnt mean I am an NVIDIA fan, my last three graphics cards before this were ATI.

I ran furmark(using etqw.exe) on my card for 27 hours at 700mhz and it didn't get any artifacts

Same specs but higher clock speeds is rebadging in my books. The whole binning concept is half bullshit anyway. Power tweaks will be primarily responsible for the overhead gain.

It's okay ATI die hards.. call it a different gpu if it brings purpose to your life. 48xx was a great success; there's nothing wrong with squeezing it futher with a board rework..

It's just as well these things aren't defined in your weird little books then, SteelSix.
Re-badging = giving a different name to the same GPU silicon, AKA 8800GTS - 9800GT.
4890 uses a *different* GPU. Sure, there's no die shrink and apparently no changes to the quantity of shaders, but there are quite a lot of very important changes you can make to a silicon chip besides that. Are you aware of the concept of a die re-spin? And why is binning 'half bullshit'? That doesn't make any sense. In fact, apart from your closing comment, your whole post is meaningless. It's just ignorant.

There's a lot of "it looks the same so it must be an overclocked part" crap in here too - speculation is fine, but do you seriously think ATi would be stupid enough to release a newer card that is hotter than their already-very-hot model without addressing some of those issues? Step off your damn pedestals and have a little faith.

And what's this crap about people's card temperatures? I don't care how hot your GTX260 is at '40% fan speed', it's a totally different architecture to the 4890, with a different cooler and an entirely different approach to thermal design. ATi design their coolers to use the minimum fan speeds possible at idle whilst keeping the GPU below its rated maximum temperature (around 110 degrees C), in order to reduce idle noise levels. nVidia tend to produce less noise-sensitive designs, that's just their strategy. People keep shitting themselves over this because they think that a GPU that idles at 50-60 is somehow safer. Get some actual GPU return rate figures before you accuse a company's designs of being flawed, I'm sick of all this 'loads of people's cards failed' hand-waving. Do we even know why the cards that did fail failed? Was it the GPU, the memory, or the PCB? These are very, very important differences.

If you want to make efficiency comparisons, look at overall power draw; that's far more important because it tells you how much heat will have to be dissipated. The original 4870 drew less power at maximum than both the GTX280 and the GTX260, but more at idle. This is due to its use of GDDR5, as shown by the power draw difference between 4870 and 4850 (much more than the clock difference could account for). In other words, there's no obvious reason why a re-spun RV770 GPU on an improved 55nm manufacturing node and with a redesigned PCB can't perform well with reasonable thermals.


It's a speed-bump, it won't set the world on fire, it will be competitive, end of.

SpunjjiIt's just as well these things aren't defined in your weird little books then, SteelSix.
Re-badging = giving a different name to the same GPU silicon, AKA 8800GTS - 9800GT.
4890 uses a *different* GPU. Sure, there's no die shrink and apparently no changes to the quantity of shaders, but there are quite a lot of very important changes you can make to a silicon chip besides that. Are you aware of the concept of a die re-spin? And why is binning 'half bullshit'? That doesn't make any sense. In fact, apart from your closing comment, your whole post is meaningless. It's just ignorant.

There's a lot of "it looks the same so it must be an overclocked part" crap in here too - speculation is fine, but do you seriously think ATi would be stupid enough to release a newer card that is hotter than their already-very-hot model without addressing some of those issues? Step off your damn pedestals and have a little faith.

And what's this crap about people's card temperatures? I don't care how hot your GTX260 is at '40% fan speed', it's a totally different architecture to the 4890, with a different cooler and an entirely different approach to thermal design. ATi design their coolers to use the minimum fan speeds possible at idle whilst keeping the GPU below its rated maximum temperature (around 110 degrees C), in order to reduce idle noise levels. nVidia tend to produce less noise-sensitive designs, that's just their strategy. People keep shitting themselves over this because they think that a GPU that idles at 50-60 is somehow safer. Get some actual GPU return rate figures before you accuse a company's designs of being flawed, I'm sick of all this 'loads of people's cards failed' hand-waving. Do we even know why the cards that did fail failed? Was it the GPU, the memory, or the PCB? These are very, very important differences.

If you want to make efficiency comparisons, look at overall power draw; that's far more important because it tells you how much heat will have to be dissipated. The original 4870 drew less power at maximum than both the GTX280 and the GTX260, but more at idle. This is due to its use of GDDR5, as shown by the power draw difference between 4870 and 4850 (much more than the clock difference could account for). In other words, there's no obvious reason why a re-spun RV770 GPU on an improved 55nm manufacturing node and with a redesigned PCB can't perform well with reasonable thermals.


It's a speed-bump, it won't set the world on fire, it will be competitive, end of.

Who left the door open?

TheMailMan78Who left the door open?

Welcome to the internet! It's fun here.

SpunjjiWelcome to the internet! It's fun here.

Welcome to the machine. I'm TheMailMan Ill be your guide.

TheMailMan78Who left the door open?

SpunjjiWelcome to the internet! It's fun here.

TheMailMan78Welcome to the machine. I'm TheMailMan Ill be your guide.

Please stay on topic.

:toast:

alexp999Please stay on topic.

:toast:

First stop. Mod central. Listen to them. If not serious PWNAGE will ensue.

Anyway I agree with Spunjji on this one. Lets see some reviews before we pass judgement. We don't even know the shader count yet.

alexp999Please stay on topic.

:toast:

Sure, sorry for that.

Yes, I'm new here, but I'm not new to all this. I don't usually bother posting, but I got rather irate at a lot of posts here.

So, does anybody have any more leaked info yet or are we still just looking at clock speeds?

TheMailMan78No I put the Asus on top. It had a much larger fan on it and I was "hoping" it would cool the visiontek better. I might switch them and see what happens tonight. Anyway here are my two cards...

prohardver.hu/dl/new/2008-07/40035_asus_hd4850_glaciator.jpg

images.tigerdirect.com/itemDetails/V261-4850/V261-4850-call01-mm.jpg

there is a flaw with what you want to do, as that asus board doesnt have a heatsink for the Power Regs in the back.

Anyways have some people check out the failure rates of boards at this link, it may prove shocking

forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=88515

but i guess its understandable considering one companies Mobility parts were failing left and right and lead to some lawsuits by the stockholders.

SpunjjiSure, sorry for that.

Yes, I'm new here, but I'm not new to all this. I don't usually bother posting, but I got rather irate at a lot of posts here.

So, does anybody have any more leaked info yet or are we still just looking at clock speeds?

Possibly a retail price of $360 US??? ALthough I think the EU shop in question has been told to remove the item from their "pre-order" list :D


www.tweaktown.com/news/11713/radeon_hd_4890_pictures_price_specs/

This is what we know so far.

btarunrThe RV790 is essentially a reworked RV770 with higher clock-speeds. AMD seems to have reworked the design of the RV770, perhaps altered or removed rudimentary components that facilitate slightly higher clock speeds. While samples of the RV790 are spec'd to run at 850 MHz, one can expect a slightly increased overclocking headroom. The samples also carried Qimonda IDGV1G-05A1F1C-40X memory chips that are originally specified to run at 1 GHz, yet running at 975 MHz on the samples. The core continues to have 800 stream processors, 40 TMUs and 16 ROPs. It features a 256-bit wide memory interface to support GDDR5, GDDR4 and GDDR3 memory standards. It will be built on the existing 55 nm TSMC manufacturing node. Products based on the RV790 can be expected only by April.

eidairaman1there is a flaw with what you want to do, as that asus board doesnt have a heatsink for the Power Regs in the back.

Anyways have some people check out the failure rates of boards at this link, it may prove shocking

forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=88515

but i guess its understandable considering one companies Mobility parts were failing left and right and lead to some lawsuits by the stockholders.

Thanks for the link, those are some interesting figures.

I'm not sure that the Mobility parts would have affected those particular graphs, though? I guess it depends whether or not they were using the same materials across all their GPUs at the time.

Regardless, that kinda proves my point about ATi failure rates hand-waving. Which is relieving.

Ohhhh and it seems that NVidia might bring out another card to combat it, a GTX275, if that is anywhere near the truth (and IDK) then it would suggest the 4890 is perhaps aslightly faster than a GTX260 216 core but certainly not as fast as a GTX285

www.tech-forums.net/pc/f62/nvidia-plans-geforce-gtx-275-against-radeon-hd-4890-a-202497/

H82LUZ73Now we all now the problems the 4870 faced when it started, AMD even had to release a driver that stopped furmark overheating it, to the point it would artifact and crash.

Bullshit.

If your a Nvidia fan go to a post to talk about them,I have a Palit 4870 that idles on 45 % fan at 35 c and never goes over 58 on load so I again say BULLSHIT with heat and noise issues on the 4870.


As for the 4890 it could be the handpick rv770xt chips that overclock well or even the shader clock increase ....Who knows until the benchmark an reviews chime in ......


Ps how come the 280 are the highest fail rate and look the 4870 is low uhmmmmmm More Bullshit i think ....www.techpowerup.com/img/09-03-18/16arxxx.png

This is what happens when you begin to notice post(s) regarding FUD. By definition it's only fear, uncertainty and doubt. Those who actually own the video card are not having unusual heat and noise issues. Heck, I don't hear the fan in my case until it reaches around 50%. And even then it's not an issue for me because I can barely hear it over my other PC Case Fans. And, I've rarely had a need to use the fan that high to begin with.

Furthermore, it is a legitimate question to ask if you are the current operator of a particular video card that you are posting a lot of negative comments about it. Sure, that means you are being called out on it. But you better have more then "just a friend" when explaining yourself. If you don't own it, your continued negative posts about it (in the fashion seen in this thread) without any solid evidence to back it up (someone called it hand-waving) becomes moot and debunked by default. And, IMO is considered trolling.

Tatty_One... it would suggest the 4890 is perhaps aslightly faster than a GTX260 216 core but certainly not as fast as a GTX285

That sounds in the right ballpark to me. I'm a bit sceptical about the claims that it would challenge a GTX285, it seems a bit of a reach for an architecture that wasn't supposed to compete at the top end of the market as a single chip.

Of course, I'd love it if we're wrong XD

eidairaman1there is a flaw with what you want to do, as that asus board doesnt have a heatsink for the Power Regs in the back.

Anyways have some people check out the failure rates of boards at this link, it may prove shocking

forums.techpowerup.com/showthread.php?t=88515

but i guess its understandable considering one companies Mobility parts were failing left and right and lead to some lawsuits by the stockholders.

According to the stats the Asus is doing just fine without the heatsink for the Power Regs. It would hurt to TRY and flip the cards.

the other problem is the Asus board maybe using different components altogether from the Visiontek unit, You may have to compare layouts and what Serial Numbers each have and determine if both are reference designs or if 1 isnt btw, i still would get some cooling for the VRMs.

EastCoasthandleFurthermore, it is a legitimate question to ask if you are the current operator of a particular video card that you are posting a lot of negative comments about it. Sure, that means you are being called out on it. But you better have more then "just a friend" when explaining yourself. If you don't own it, your continued negative posts about it (in the fashion seen in this thread) without any solid evidence to back it up (someone called it hand-waving) becomes moot and debunked by default. And, IMO is considered trolling.

What's all that crap? You can think whatever you want. Even that I'm making all this up. But what about TheMailMan, in this same thread?? He states that his card idles at 81ºC and he is making it up too? To support my point, that is, we are best friends after all... :laugh: Eh MailMan?? :laugh:

On the other hand he is not having artifacts. Well temperature here might be a little bit higher and we do like a little bit higher temperatures than what seems to be common in the US and other countries. When I went there in vacations I almost got freezed when I entered any public building and I was told it was the same temperature that people uses at home. I got countless headaches in CAL, becaue of the temperature difference between outdoors and indoors.

Also not all chips can handle the same temperatures before artifacting, so even if only 10% of the cards overheat and only half of those artifact when overheating, that's still a lot of cards having issues. If it was a competition of course you would find more evidence of working cards with no problems at all, because more than 90% of the cards runs well, but there's still a lot of problematic cards noentheless. As I said my friends had artifacting and in order to solve the problem we had to put the fan @80-100% load, which was quite noisy. No need to go through RMA (RMA wouldn't help anyway), so the link about failure rates means nothing. We are reluctant to RMA a card because of temperatures and artifacting (I already did it once with no luck). Even if it is a design problem, they will very likely demostrate that it runs well, under their lab conditions, of course, and will return you the same card. Result for you: 20 euros less in delivery expenses. Wohoooo!!

DarkMatterWhat's all that crap? You can think whatever you want. Even that I'm making all this up. But what about TheMailMan, in this same thread?? He states that his card idles at 81ºC and he is making it up too? ...
On the other hand he is not having artifacts.

You just proved our point there. The 4850/70 cards are known to idle high, but their chip design can handle sustained temperatures much higher than that - almost 30 degrees centigrade higher, to be precise, which is a large difference. I understand that might *seem* unsettling at first glance, but really it has no need to be.

DarkMatterAlso not all chips can handle the same temperatures before artifacting

That is a very good point, and naturally some people will be unlucky and get cards that are less able to tolerate the heat - but that's an unfortunate fact of life, and is the same for all areas of the consumer electronics industry. The RMA figures show that there's not an unreasonable number of problem cards.

DarkMatterWe are reluctant to RMA a card because of temperatures and artifacting (I already did it once with no luck).

If the card tests as fine at their centre, then it might indicate a problem at your end causing artifacts - not necessarily one that's your fault, either, there are a lot of variables to deal with. It could be a problem peculiar to your own configuration. Temperature being high but still within specifications is not a good enough reason for an RMA, though - if you don't like the card idling high, then you can always change the cooler. And any skew to the RMA figures resulting from consumer reluctance will apply to the competition, too, so it still proves nothing about the scale of this problem.

Spunjji beware "The Dark Matter". He likes to type. A LOT!

TheMailMan78Spunjji beware "The Dark Matter". He likes to type. A LOT!

Haha, thanks for the heads-up :)
I've said my piece now though, I think I can probably leave it at that.

SpunjjiYou just proved our point there. The 4850/70 cards are known to idle high, but their chip design can handle sustained temperatures much higher than that - almost 30 degrees centigrade higher, to be precise, which is a large difference. I understand that might *seem* unsettling at first glance, but really it has no need to be.


That is a very good point, and naturally some people will be unlucky and get cards that are less able to tolerate the heat - but that's an unfortunate fact of life, and is the same for all areas of the consumer electronics industry. The RMA figures show that there's not an unreasonable number of problem cards.

My friends cards started artifacting at over 110ºC, a temperature that was reached in an eye blink.

The RMA figures show nothing as they do not represent a big enough base.

If the card tests as fine at their centre, then it might indicate a problem at your end causing artifacts - not necessarily one that's your fault, either, there are a lot of variables to deal with. It could be a problem peculiar to your own configuration. Temperature being high but still within specifications is not a good enough reason for an RMA, though - if you don't like the card idling high, then you can always change the cooler. And any skew to the RMA figures resulting from consumer reluctance will apply to the competition, too, so it still proves nothing about the scale of this problem.

Of course the "problem" is in our end. Namely ambient temperature higher than 15-20ºC, and the fact that we don't have the closed antiseptic test environments as they have. Nor we use testbeds, but cases that will make airflow worse no matter how good it is. It's our fault? Of course NOT. They have to make cards to work everywhere and from what I've seen the REFERENCE HD48xx cards can't be used everywhere without problems. That's all that I'm saying all the time. Non-reference cards have no problems, but why should average joe buy an aftermarket cooler if he bought a reference card?

SpunjjiHaha, thanks for the heads-up :)
I've said my piece now though, I think I can probably leave it at that.

Never!! :laugh: