Who'll be the better president?

[mdm-adph]

There is no proof the war is "destroying their economy." Also, the "youth" that died did so knowing the risks and the rewards.

War racks up huge debt -- always has, always will. If you refuse to raise taxes while waging a war (or afterwards), your economy's going to be in trouble.

And how about the youth that were promised they "could be stationed anywhere they want" by military recruiters? Lots fall for that line. Their fault, I guess?

Cheney didn't see a penny of Halliburton's profit.

I'm sure the he did, since I'm almost positive he owns vast amounts of their stock: http://finance.google.com/finance?c...=1225224000000&chddm=623972&q=NYSE:HAL&ntsp=0

I'm sure you'll argue that the profits are completely unrelated to the war, of course.

 

[SK-1]

I honestly don't think I'd have a problem supporting Ron Paul if Ron Paul wasn't against the Iraqi war. I don't like anyone that wants to leave any job half finished.

I did. The only problem was the press covering the fringe of his backers, you know, the ones that believe Dick Cheney was in an underground bunker directing all of the events of 9-11

 

[FordGT90Concept]

War racks up huge debt -- always has, always will. If you refuse to raise taxes while waging a war (or afterwards), your economy's going to be in trouble.

And how about the youth that were promised they "could be stationed anywhere they want" by military recruiters? Lots fall for that line. Their fault, I guess?

We are in the position we are in today because of the huge profits we made during and after WWII.

They have the option to be discharged at almost any time. If they really had a problem with going to Iraq, they could leave.

I'm sure the he did, since I'm almost positive he owns vast amounts of their stock: ...

I'm sure you'll argue that the profits are completely unrelated to the war, of course.

Investigations found no foul play on Cheney's behalf. Find an federal investigation that did find foul play and I would believe you. Just like the McCain = Bush jargon, the Cheney = Halliburton jargon is just as annoying.

 

[mdm-adph]

We are in the position we are in today because of the huge profits we made during and after WWII.

They have the option to be discharged at almost any time. If they really had a problem with going to Iraq, they could leave.

Huge profits from WWII? That's funny -- remember how the income tax rate after WWII ended was something like 80% on top earners for years, right?

And Discharged? When they're serving a four-year contract? Any time they want to? Something tells me it's a little bit harder than that.

Investigations found no foul play on Cheney's behalf. Find an federal investigation that did find foul play and I would believe you. Just like the McCain = Bush jargon, the Cheney = Halliburton jargon is just as annoying.

Who's talking about foul play? I'm talking about profits -- you really don't need to break laws to earn profit.

There's no conspiracies where there's profits to be made -- it's just business.

 

[Bigjohn]

Obama's campaign isn't about fear. He is taking the high road on debates and advertising. Unless you think likening McCain to Bush is smear. Its just accurate.

Palin's supporters at rallies chant "Kill Obama". Thats not the high road.

Disproven as a democrat smear attempt. The FBI on site - 4 agents in the crowd and on stage - say it never happened.

Obama's "high road" is to say "Don't question me, that's just a destratction - I want to CHANGE (but not tell you exactly what or how because I am making all these promises that I'll never be able to keep....) and to talk about who I am or what my character might be is just a destraction... Hell, just because I said "long live palestine" and some anti-semetic shit at a dinner for a terrorist, my friends at the LA Times will keep that under water untill after i'm anointed..."

 

[ckoons1]

what a choice
#1 MCcain slow grind forward
#2 Obama a gamble with our future. could go forward fast or backwards fast. kinda scary with his lack of experience. forward could be great backwards could cause a DEPRESSION

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Huge profits from WWII? That's funny -- remember how the income tax rate after WWII ended was something like 80% on top earners for years, right?

Love to see a source on that.

And Discharged? When they're serving a four-year contract? Any time they want to? Something tells me it's a little bit harder than that.

The worst penalty they face is three months in jail. Some are eligible to be honorably discharged though.

Who's talking about foul play? I'm talking about profits -- you really don't need to break laws to earn profit.

There's no conspiracies where there's profits to be made -- it's just business.

Exactly, so why even bring up Cheney and Halliburton?

 

[Tatty_Two]

Defense is the single largest expenditure the government makes (entitlement programs are starting to threaten that though).

Even though the President has people to advise, it's still him/her making the decisions. A lot of failed wars can be linked to a failed administration (Nixon with Vietnam, Bush with Iraq). Yes, they have to be pretty high ranking to benefit from military training (Bush is an example of not having enough) but they don't have to be as high as a 1 star general to be able to apply what they learned in the military to their policy.


McCain is a hero because no one, even the Vietnamese, can stop him from serving his country. Most vets would be happy to retire after what he went though but he didn't. Instead, he went to Congress to serve his country in a different way. He is a tireless servant of his country, dispite what he has been through, and that is what makes him a hero.

Let me put that in context: During a townhall meeting back in the 1980's when he was running for the House, a gentleman asked him, "Why should we vote for you because you have only lived in the State of Arizona for a short while?" McCain paused and replied, "The only place I lived for a significant amount of time was Hanoi." A similar question was never asked again.

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

 

[Tatty_Two]

what a choice
#1 MCcain slow grind forward
#2 Obama a gamble with our future. could go forward fast or backwards fast. kinda scary with his lack of experience. forward could be great backwards could cause a DEPRESSION

You dont need Obama to get you into a depression.....GWB has pretty much scored full points for that himself

 

[FordGT90Concept]

http://www.warresisters.org/pages/piechart.htm

Heh, entitlement programs already did take over defense spending.


Still, I was asking for a source on that 80% figure you gave me.

 

[Tatty_Two]

Heh, entitlement programs already did take over defense spending.


Still, I was asking for a source on that 80% figure you gave me.

80% figure I gave you???? for what?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

80% figure I gave you???? for what?

Sorry, mdm.

 

[FudFighter]

You dont need Obama to get you into a depression.....GWB has pretty much scored full points for that himself

its not bush, just ask the republicans, its all the dems fault, everything is, gotta be clintons fault(somebody has said this a few times, everythings clintons fault!!!!)

 

[FudFighter]

Disproven as a democrat smear attempt. The FBI on site - 4 agents in the crowd and on stage - say it never happened.

Obama's "high road" is to say "Don't question me, that's just a destratction - I want to CHANGE (but not tell you exactly what or how because I am making all these promises that I'll never be able to keep....) and to talk about who I am or what my character might be is just a destraction... Hell, just because I said "long live palestine" and some anti-semetic shit at a dinner for a terrorist, my friends at the LA Times will keep that under water untill after i'm anointed..."

once it was found to be "False" supposedly, but theres FILM of people saying that stuff at a rally with palin and she just smiles like shes loving it.......

mccain on the other hand has been recorded correcting people who bad mouth him calling him an "ay-rab" and "muslim" and "terrorist", palin......she incurages it from what i have seen.

 

[mdm-adph]

Love to see a source on that.



The worst penalty they face is three months in jail. Some are eligible to be honorably discharged though.



Exactly, so why even bring up Cheney and Halliburton?

I'm really surprised you've never heard about post-WWII tax rates -- ask your grandparents about it sometime. Look it up on wikipedia, and then choose your lead from there -- the wikipedia article gets it's information from a very neat census report: http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/CT1970p2-01.pdf

And I really hope you're not considering "deserting" as a useful alternative to serving in war, because that's what it sounds like.

I brought up Cheney and Halliburton because you stated that Cheney has never seen one penny from Halliburton's war profiteering, which I find to be laughable.

However, if you want to believe that the former head of a company in no way benefits from that company's profits, even after he leaves, feel free. :shadedshu

By the way, looks like the racist Republicans are out in force in Florida:

The head of the Hillsborough GOP, David Storck, distributed an email from a Republican Party volunteer saying the voters are a threat.

That's because, as the volunteer says in the email, he sees "car loads of black Obama supporters coming from the inner city to cast their votes for Obama."

It goes on to say, "This is their chance to get a black president and they seem to care little the he is at minimum a socialist and probably Marxist in his core beliefs." The Republican volunteer says that is because, "After all he is black- no experience or accomplishments but he is black."

Hillsborough Commissioner Kevin White says, "There's no place in our community for those types of views." White, who can't believe the email was distributed, says Storck should resign.

[source]

This is disgusting. The whole PDF of the guy's email is even worse.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

I'm really surprised you've never heard about post-WWII tax rates -- ask your grandparents about it sometime. Look it up on wikipedia, and then choose your lead from there -- the wikipedia article gets it's information from a very neat census report: http://www2.census.gov/prod2/statcomp/documents/CT1970p2-01.pdf

Interesting how the interest rates were so high under the "census" and not under the IRS. I question how much of those 80% taxes were actually paid.

And I really hope you're not considering "deserting" as a useful alternative to serving in war, because that's what it sounds like.

If they don't like it, they can leave. Whatever punishment they get charged with is infinitely better than death so, the choice is in their hands.

I brought up Cheney and Halliburton because you stated that Cheney has never seen one penny from Halliburton's war profiteering, which I find to be laughable.

However, if you want to believe that the former head of a company in no way benefits from that company's profits, even after he leaves, feel free. :shadedshu

He might be seeing some of it. Regardless, he is irrelevent in this election.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/26/politics/main575356.shtml

 

[mdm-adph]

If they don't like it, they can leave. Whatever punishment they get charged with is infinitely better than death so, the choice is in their hands.

I find your lack of faith in American servicemen... disturbing.

I'd like to think that they'd stick through it to the end of their term, even if they had been lied to at the beginning. True heroes, you know?

 

[das müffin mann]

no service men cannot just "leave" ever hear of a court marshal? that and most of them would not just up and abandon their buddies...

 

[mdm-adph]

no service men cannot just "leave" ever hear of a court marshal? that and most of them would not just up and abandon their buddies...

Ford was making the argument that a court marshal was probably preferable to continuing to serve in the hellhole that is Iraq. Though I agree with his sentiment, I differ with his methods.

 

[das müffin mann]

i see, i really should read the entirety of what i missed, but im short on time so

 

[DaedalusHelios]

Disproven as a democrat smear attempt. The FBI on site - 4 agents in the crowd and on stage - say it never happened.

Obama's "high road" is to say "Don't question me, that's just a destratction - I want to CHANGE (but not tell you exactly what or how because I am making all these promises that I'll never be able to keep....) and to talk about who I am or what my character might be is just a destraction... Hell, just because I said "long live palestine" and some anti-semetic shit at a dinner for a terrorist, my friends at the LA Times will keep that under water untill after i'm anointed..."

The FBI is in direct command of the president. Would the president say, "guys lets make sure you tell the truth to the press and expose somebody in the republican party for having anti-black supporters". Mission Accomplished??? Get real.

 

[magibeg]

The FBI is in direct command of the president. Would the president say, "guys lets make sure you tell the truth to the press and expose somebody in the republican party for having anti-black supporters". Mission Accomplished??? Get real.

Its high level corruption at its finest of course.

 

[FudFighter]

*gives Bigjohn a taist of trickel down*

 

[DaedalusHelios]

*gives Bigjohn a taist of trickel down*

In trickle down economics the poor get to eat atleast. They fish their meals out of garbage cans.


But in all seriousness, if you lack social programs, you end up creating a situation for extreme desperation. Extreme desperation leads to crime, and that usually being violent crime.

Its not a "you give a mouse a cookie" scenario either. These people just need enough to survive. They are still going to be in poverty, but that doesn't mean they have to starve/freeze to death.

PS. Trickle down economics, is against almost all social programs.

 

[mdm-adph]

In trickle down economics the poor get to eat atleast. They fish their meals out of garbage cans.


But in all seriousness, if you lack social programs, you end up creating a situation for extreme desperation. Extreme desperation leads to crime, and that usually being violent crime.

Its not a "you give a mouse a cookie" scenario either. These people just need enough to survive. They are still going to be in poverty, but that doesn't mean they have to starve/freeze to death.

PS. Trickle down economics, is against almost all social programs.

Come on, you have to look at it like an objectivist (like BigJohn) -- if they weren't so stupid and worthless they wouldn't be poor in the first place. Why help them at all?