Do you believe the new navi cards will be released with stable drivers?

[cucker tarlson]

So basically, it's like this:
- we have an unusual problem, making a small percentage of cards (or maybe a particular setup) behave erratically, that's still at large almost a year after Navi's launch
- people that see this as a problem - Nvidia fanboys
- people that don't see this as a problem - AMD fanboys

There is no way to call this as it is: something ugly that only affects few (but more than usual) users and be perceived as using common sense. It goes well with the times we're living, I guess.

@FordGT90Concept Did you own a 2080Ti when you posted this? https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...t-afford-a-2080-ti.249573/page-2#post-3950310

double standards ? from a red team supporter ? that's news to me.

the key is understanding that your experience costitutes a fraction of whole data.while your experience may be flawless,given the fact that amd acknowledge the issues,we had hwunboxed report that navi return rate is 5x higher than previous gen and people actually requested a bug reporting feature in the new driver no one can say those cards are in the clear.

whining about a list of nvidia issues doesn't clear amd's,as people would like to think.

hey,amd has a serious issue in driver release notes,one they can't solve since launch - but nvidia's list is longer

my turing sku has micron gddr6 and it never died,so other turing skus dying gddr6 must be bogus

 

[BoboOOZ]

There are actual real people who are paid REAL money to rubbish competitors products.
TPU forums and Reddit aren't the places to get accurate answers to anything.
Weirdly...None. And i mean None, of the hardware reviewers had ANY trouble with driver issues with the AMD 5xxx series.

Let's face it. The majority of PC gamers are pretty much tech illiterate when it comes to the PC hardware/software interface, and should be gaming on consoles.
There will always be problems for people like that.

I'm half of your opinion. I do believe most AMD driver problems are user error.
That said, I had my part of blue screens and crashes for a few weeks before understanding that there were weird interactions going on being different pieces of software, and then I got my act right and now I love these drivers.
Trouble with that is that I'm a senior software engineer and, if I needed such a while to figure it all out, it's that probably the driver UI makes the average user thinking it's all as easy as just ; moving a few sliders and ticking a few options, but in reality, you can easily go overboard, especially if you change options in multiple tuning software and then forget about it.

So I think AMD should make it clearer that there is some danger in moving those sliders if you don't have a clue what you are doing>

To the OP, yeah, I think AMD drivers are going to be even better, but people will still make mistakes if AMD doesn't change the UI.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

@FordGT90Concept Did you own a 2080Ti when you posted this? https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/...t-afford-a-2080-ti.249573/page-2#post-3950310

No, nor did I claim to. I was paraphrasing comments by hardware reviewers testing and AIBs making the cards. None of that post was my opinion and it's heavily sourced on purpose.

Weirdly...None. And i mean None, of the hardware reviewers had ANY trouble with driver issues with the AMD 5xxx series.

It happens (50th Anniversary attempted review, artifacts, and died):

 

[cucker tarlson]

No, nor did I claim to. I was paraphrasing comments by hardware reviewers testing and AIBs making the cards.

but I guess we invented the list of known issues and user opinions

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

double standards ? from a red team supporter ? that's news to me.

the key is understanding that your experience costitutes a fraction of whole data.while your experience may be flawless,given the fact that amd acknowledge the issues,we had hwunboxed report that navi return rate is 5x higher than previous gen and people actually requested a bug reporting feature in the new driver no one can say those cards are in the clear.

whining about a list of nvidia issues doesn't clear amd's,as people would like to think.

hey,amd has a serious issue in driver release notes,one they can't solve since launch - but nvidia's list is longer

my turing sku has micron gddr6 and it never died,so other turing skus dying gddr6 must be bogus

As opposed to your vast experience with AMD driver issues.

Your still stuck on the length of list comment aren't you, recheck that post I edited it for clarity.


So Nvidia has minor issues not worth mentioning, like I said Fanbois will make what they want of the facts you show.

And if pertinent, ignore them and the point that issues are eternal , for both maker's, can't be avoided ever ,never mind on release it's the nature of the beast.

And just go on about one comment.

All your. Arguments are biased green lens crap.

 

[Ahhzz]

Do not turn this into a Red/Green debate. Stick to the OP, or stop posting.

 

[cucker tarlson]

Do not turn this into a Red/Green debate. Stick to the OP, or stop posting.

every navi thread on tpu:

OP asks an open question.
People have opinions.
Some,usually the same 2-3 people,don't like those opinions and say "hey,you're a green fanboy,what do you think you're doing here commenting"
Mods close the thread

lather,rinse,repeat,every week.

I'd rather see ALL people allowed to express their opinions or just don't allow navi drivers threads here at all.

 

[Vya Domus]

Back on topic: I have every reason to believe RDNA 2 drivers will be stable at launch. They won't be perfect but no driver is.

Another reason to believe this is the fact that RDNA2 is what's inside the upcoming consoles. If one thing is ought to be stable is drivers for a GPU architecture that's going to end up in a couple of dozen million consoles out there.

 

[$ReaPeR$]

Can the people that dislike AMD for any reason just avoid buying AMD? Literally no one is forcing you. These geek wars over multi-billion companies are becoming really tiresome. Companies care for one thing only, profits, not you not me not anyone or anything else, they are not your friends or your enemies.

 

[robot zombie]

I firmly believe that these cards will be released with drivers. Definitely.

Really though, when I buy a card, I don't expect the drivers to be on-point all of the time. I don't think I've ever had one where they were, across their whole update path. Never really know what you're gonna get.

I'll put it this way... unless they are EXTREMELY bad, forever, drivers don't really influence what I buy, just because they're kind of a wildcard. You could always be that one person with that one machine config that your card's drivers just hate. There's really no metric for knowing that. I mean, you can pick one or the other and say you're playing the odds. I'm mostly looking at price-performance. Performance sits in a variable range, not a fixed one. Drivers I suppose are one factor... but again not a guaranteed factor. What is the minimum performance I can reasonably expect? Is the price fair for that?

I mean, if the drivers are REALLY so egregious, I expect that to be handled and if it renders the card non-functional or grossly not as advertised, I expect a refund. And if I don't get it, expect hell from me. Because that's not how this stuff usually works.

But then... I usually wait a few months after new cards come out to buy. Usually the prices will come down, and all of the big issues will surface, if there are to be any. So I ain't gotta believe nothin! Not ta ting!


Nah, but really, I don't see the hubbub. Some people don't have confidence in AMD on GPU drivers, whether due to their own experiences or somebody else's. Why is this something to be debated as though there is MORE on the line than whether or not the person making the argument will purchase an AMD card? What is the big thing with trying to prove points about other people's purchases? If somebody wants to buy something, they will. If not, they won't. Either way, they'll have reasons. Reasons you may not agree with, but they're there. I guess you can argue those, but what do you win if you change their mind? A little commissary case badge from the manufacturer you made a sale for? Honestly if that's the case that sounds pretty cool. I'd go for it.

I've liked the AMD cards I've had. At times there have been minor driver hiccups, but for the most part they've been great, if not a bit hot and loud. I really like their software, too. But I'm not too interested in them these days. Drivers are the least of things keeping them from being competitive in my mind.

Short answer to the OP's original question: NO !

Long answer: Hell no !

Really long answer: Not no, not hell no, but fuki saki juku NO !

This is what I believe.....

'nuff said

I see you, and raise you this proposition.

 

[Giggidy666]

I have zero issues on my MSI RX 5700xt Mech OC card. The driver, version 20.4.2, is stable and i can use my hardware monitor app with no drop in FPS. The App i use isnt free but it works perfectly and it's easy to customize. Look up FPSMonitor.

I was getting high hot spot temps but i OC'd my card as far as Wattman would let me. So im running it at stock

 

[Vya Domus]

Can the people that dislike AMD for any reason just avoid buying AMD?

They can't help themselves. Bizarrely the people that are the most up in arms about poor AMD drivers are not the ones using said drivers. Some 4D chess type of stuff, you wouldn't get it.

These people would probably complain if AMD had put the sticker the wrong way up on the box, a box that they wouldn't have bought anyway but it doesn't matter.

 

[bug]

double standards ? from a red team supporter ? that's news to me.

the key is understanding that your experience costitutes a fraction of whole data.while your experience may be flawless,given the fact that amd acknowledge the issues,we had hwunboxed report that navi return rate is 5x higher than previous gen and people actually requested a bug reporting feature in the new driver no one can say those cards are in the clear.

whining about a list of nvidia issues doesn't clear amd's,as people would like to think.

hey,amd has a serious issue in driver release notes,one they can't solve since launch - but nvidia's list is longer

my turing sku has micron gddr6 and it never died,so other turing skus dying gddr6 must be bogus

You know what I realized reading your post?
These issues are perceived much like Covid (same psychology at work). "It didn't affect me, it didn't affect the people I know, so it's probably made up."

 

[yeeeeman]

If they are hardware bugs and they have fixed them in design, yes, they might have trouble free drivers. If they are not hardware bugs, then it will take a long long time to fix everything since reproducing a crash/blackscreen with the same exact config as you had is very difficult. Why they fail so much after 1 year from launch is anyone's guess but I would say it is bad design.

 

[bug]

Yes. I believe that AMD has learned from RX 5700 disaster

It's not a disaster. Not by a long shot. But it's the kind of bad publicity AMD really didn't need with Navi.

If they are hardware bugs and they have fixed them in design, yes, they might have trouble free drivers. If they are not hardware bugs, then it will take a long long time to fix everything since reproducing a crash/blackscreen with the same exact config as you had is very difficult. Why they fail so much after 1 year from launch is anyone's guess but I would say it is bad design.

Since this is acknowledged in the drivers release notes, it would indicate AMD thinks it's a driver issue.

 

[dinmaster]

people are bringing up consoles, i don't think this has much to do with them. since the systems run their own os and companies are developing games for those consoles and testing them, its much easier to fix issues because the hardware is static (doesn't change). in a pc, all of the components are different and interchangeable, the os, and the 3d api's (dx12, vulcan). your running background software of varying quality that could affect the drivers running the cards. amd has a team dedicated in helping companies make their software run well on their cards and in some instances like cyberpunk i'm sure they are reaching out and offering staff to make sure it runs best on their cards. I've had both companies over the years, back in the day it felt like ati/amd had good drivers then took a dive and now are on the rebound. Nvidia drivers have always been good from my experience and that's why today i have a card from them. I would like to go back to amd at some point but they haven't been competitive in the high tier for a while, hope that changes with big navi. I like their feature set especially eyefinity, before that i had to use a matrox triplehead2go. speculation until they announce the cards and when we get our hands on them with the new drivers. Wonder if they will bring out ground up drivers or just use the old ones with updates...

 

[Keullo-e]

It's not a disaster. Not by a long shot. But it's the kind of bad publicity AMD really didn't need with Navi.

The black screen bullshit was a disaster :|

 

[GoldenX]

Based on the past few architecture releases, no.

But I remain optimistic that Lisa Su will crack the whip over at RTG and get them to pull their heads outta their a**es.

We've been waiting for that since this thing was called ATI. My hopes are lower than on winning the lottery.

 

[Gmr_Chick]

I wonder how many people here attacking Navi actually have used Navi.

I've beat 69 games on my 5500 XT (Navi), not one issue, and on top of that, I have never even heard the fan spin because it stays under 60C at 100% load playing games at 1920x1200. It's a phenomenal card with literally no issues.

Even back on the RX 590 (Polaris), hundreds of games beat and no issues.

*raises hand* The sad thing is, I didn't even really get to "use" my Navi card(s) because I couldn't even get a signal, so I couldn't even get into the BIOS to troubleshoot.

Now, my RX 580 on the other hand? I firmly believe Polaris is the GPU that wouldn't die. It saved my ass when I was having all those problems with my 5700XT (and briefly with the 5600XT) and I've never, ever hand any issues with it in the years I've owned it. Same goes for my old 280x Tri-x (it's in my old computer that the family now uses downstairs) or the HD7790 my dad used in his computer. Been using AMD cards for years and never once had a problem (though I knew they existed at the driver level) so to go from no problems to suddenly a shit ton of problems with Navi was frustrating to say the least.

But I don't consider myself a fangirl of Intel, AMD or Nvidia. They're just companies each with their owns pro's, con's, and skeletons in their respective closets. AMD/Radeon gave me problems, so I went Intel/Nvidia. Doesn't make me an insta-fangirl of either company. I did what had to be done in order for me to be able to enjoy my computer, and I do. Very much so.

my turing sku has micron gddr6 and it never died

Oh jeez, don't tell me that... My MSI GTX 1660 Super Gaming X has micron GDDR6 memory I only discovered that it did after I bought it and ran GPU-Z. Does that mean there's a possibility of it dying?

 

[EarthDog]

*raises hand* The sad thing is, I didn't even really get to "use" my Navi card(s) because I couldn't even get a signal, so I couldn't even get into the BIOS to troubleshoot.

Now, my RX 580 on the other hand? I firmly believe Polaris is the GPU that wouldn't die. It saved my ass when I was having all those problems with my 5700XT (and briefly with the 5600XT) and I've never, ever hand any issues with it in the years I've owned it. Same goes for my old 280x Tri-x (it's in my old computer that the family now uses downstairs) or the HD7790 my dad used in his computer. Been using AMD cards for years and never once had a problem (though I knew they existed at the driver level) so to go from no problems to suddenly a shit ton of problems with Navi was frustrating to say the least.

But I don't consider myself a fangirl of Intel, AMD or Nvidia. They're just companies each with their owns pro's, con's, and skeletons in their respective closets. AMD/Radeon gave me problems, so I went Intel/Nvidia. Doesn't make me an insta-fangirl of either company. I did what had to be done in order for me to be able to enjoy my computer, and I do. Very much so.



Oh jeez, don't tell me that... My MSI GTX 1660 Super Gaming X has micron GDDR6 memory I only discovered that it did after I bought it and ran GPU-Z. Does that mean there's a possibility of it dying?

I've used them too... not a single issue across several 56/5700s for review. Buy my son a 5500xt...random black screen issue.

The issues some brought up about nvidia cards was seemingly only with 2080 and 2080ti. Cards with the new memory died as well, so it wasn't the memory on those that were the issue.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

...so to go from no problems to suddenly a shit ton of problems with Navi was frustrating to say the least.

Which is why AMD devoted many months to fixing what they could in drivers. No one here is saying Navi 10 didn't have problems because it most certainly did. The question is will Navi 2x have problems like Navi 10 did? Unlikely. Navi 10 was the biggest architectural change AMD has done in almost a decade and it shows. Navi 2x is trivial by comparison (mostly adds new features).

 

[Hyderz]

i've had amd hd 5770,6850 and 7970 gpu and i don't think i've encountered any major driver issues using those gpu at that time.
there was a little bit of driver issues with some games, but they were quickly patched up relatively quick.

i don't think companies will release a driver if they know it is not stable, this goes for nvidia as well.
New Tech will always have issues, that is the nature of new tech.

 

[GoldenX]

Seems like you forgot when drivers took 4 to 6 months to come out, and mayor issues weren't fixed.

 

[bug]

I've used them too... not a single issue across several 56/5700s for review. Buy my son a 5500xt...random black screen issue.

The issues some brought up about nvidia cards was seemingly only with 2080 and 2080ti. Cards with the new memory died as well, so it wasn't the memory on those that were the issue.

Out of curiosity, were the review cards store bought? Sent by AMD?

 

[Vayra86]

Enough nonsense ill leave these here

Nvidia
"

Open Issues (Updated 6/30/20):

• [Notebook][H-Clone]: With the integrated graphics processor as the clone source, display settings cannot be changed from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [200594188]
• [Sunset Overdrive]: The game may display random green corruption if Depth of Field is enabled from in-game settings. [2750770]
• [VR]: HDCP errors occur with Valve Index VR. [2967616]
• [Call of Duty: Modern Warfare]: Color banding can occur in the game after enabling Image Sharpening from the NVIDIA Control Panel. [2889337/3028436]
• [Call of Duty - Warzone]: Freestyle does not work. [200593020]
• [Forza Motorsport 7]: The curb may display a black strip during a race on certain tracks. [2781776]
• [Zombie Army: Dead War 4][Ansel/Freestyle]: The Ansel & Freestyle tabs are unselectable. [2810884]
• [Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege][Vulkan][G-SYNC]: When playing the game in Vulkan mode with G-SYNC enabled, flickering occurs after switching the game between full-screen and windowed mode.[200578641] To work around, either disable G-SYNC or play using an API other than Vulkan.
• [Kepler]: With SLI/multi-GPU and G-SYNC enabled, TDRs may occur after launching an app [200628981]
• [Advanced Optimus][The Witcher 3 WILD HUNT]: The game launches minimized when NVIDIA Control Panel Manage Display mode is set to Automatic or Optimus and cannot be restored to full screen. [200628973]
• [Notebook]: Some Pascal-based notebooks w/ high refresh rate displays may randomly drop to 60Hz during gameplay. [3009452]
• [Notebook][G-SYNC]: Graphical corruption occurs when windowed G-SYNC+V-Sync is On while running applications in Clone/Duplicate mode. [200628911]
• [Notebook]: LVDS-display goes blank upon rebooting the system after driver installation on some systems. [200627952]
• Video playback on the secondary display lags/freezes while playing a game on the primary display if Hardware-accelerated GPU Scheduling is enabled [200586262]
• Adjustments in Lumetri color panel causes video to appear noisy in Adobe Premiere [3038602]
• [DX12]Shadow of the Tomb Raider may crash on launch if Hardware-accelerated GPU scheduling is enabled [3037544]
• 144Hz capable HDMI displays will not go above 120hz [3038540]
• [451.48][Detroit: Become Human] Game may randomly crash

AMD
"

• Radeon RX Vega Series and Radeon VII graphics products may experience performance drops when Performance Metrics Overlay is open while a game is running.
• Some game titles may experience hitching when Instant Replay is enabled on Radeon RX 5000 series system configurations.
• Enhanced Sync may cause a black screen to occur when enabled on some games and system configurations. Any users who may be experiencing issues with Enhanced Sync enabled should disable it as a temporary workaround.
• Using Edge™ web browser to playback video content with a multi display system configuration may cause a system hang or crash after extended periods of use.
• Performance Metrics Overlay and Radeon WattMan incorrectly report higher than expected idle clock speeds on Radeon RX 5700 series graphics products. Performance and power consumption are not impacted by this incorrect reporting.
• Some games may exhibit stutter intermittently during gameplay on Radeon RX 5000 series graphics products.
• Radeon RX Vega series graphics products may experience a system crash or TDR when performing multiple task switches using Alt+Tab.
• Modifying the HDMI Scaling slider may cause FPS to become locked to 30.
• Desktop or In-game corruption may occur intermittently when HDR is enabled.
• Some users may still experience black screen or system hang issues during extended periods of gameplay. AMD will continue to monitor and investigate reports of these issues closely.

who has the longer list. (As ever the fanbois focus on this one line rather than the three bits of evidence both GPU makers ALWAYS have faults(my point))

Perhaps look here for a reality check

https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/forums/game-ready-drivers/13/384770/geforce-45148-game-ready-driver-feedback-thread-re/

Really... what stands out to me in the above lists is a difference in documentation and administration more than anything.
Nvidia: bugs numbered and description is precise and narrowed down to specifics.
AMD: "bad stuff may happen while doing XYZ". And that includes standard activity like a simple alt tab (?!?!?!)...