Radeon extremely low market share, only 8% in Q3 2022?

[Vayra86]

that makes no sense, on one side console users don't care about the components, like i said they would buy consoles with a coca cola APU, and sony and microsoft would never go for it, they are paying for a component not marketing a company, maybe if AMD made a big discount

We dont know but fact is thats where they could win mindshare. Other facts are mentioned above. The Radeon wishlists are as old as I am, and never materialized.

 

[Avro Arrow]

No nVidia's prices are ridiculous as well but as a leader they define them.

Only if people are such sheep that they're willing to pay that. I was a sheep myself and paid way more for my card than I should have. In my defence, I've learnt my lesson and will never do it again. The customers define the prices based on what they're willing to pay. People are fed up and so only the cards that give "not horrible" performance for the money are getting sold (RTX 4090, RX 7900 XTX). Cards like the RTX 4080, RX 7900 XT and even the RTX 4080 12GB4070 Ti are already gathering dust.

AMD responds to them, shouldn't follow them.

Why shouldn't AMD follow them? If consumers are such sheep that they'll slit their own throats for an nVidia card, why shouldn't AMD demand that they slit their wrists for one of theirs? If you're running a business and your competitor raises their prices to pie-in-the-sky levels, then not increasing your own prices to both beat theirs and increase your own margins would get you removed as CEO by the shareholders.

Let alone when they can't compete.

This sentence reveals that nVidia's marketing has successfully programmed you. You say that they can't compete and yet nVidia is the younger of the two GPU makers. If Radeon couldn't compete, it wouldn't have kept AMD afloat during the FX-era and would be dead today so actual events prove your words false. You have failed to see through nVidia's marketing BS. I have to admit that it's very effective marketing BS because it seems that most people have fallen for it and what it does is set a parameter in your brain that is illogical, a parameter that will always show nVidia as better no matter what. This is why a lot of people in marketing are psychologists, they know how to change the way people think.

What nVidia wants is for you to be unable to separate the card from the branding. The truth is that the competition is not between AMD and nVidia, in fact, it never was. The competition is between the individual cards at the individual performance tiers and/or price points. Like, the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XTX don't compete with each other because they're too far separated in price and performance tier. I'll use some scenarios to reveal the illogical parameter that nVidia put in your subconscious, the one that makes you believe that nVidia is "just better, because". You won't be able to deny my result in the end.

Your statement is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce which means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4080 so let's examine those two cards.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4080:

The RTX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior to that of the RTX 4080:

Average price at Microcenter:
RX 7900 XTX - $1,063.64
RTX 4080 - $1,314.21

The RX 7900 XTX is, on average, $250.57 less expensive than the RTX 4080.

So, you say that AMD can't compete, period which makes this scenario valid. Therefore, your parameters are that a card with a faster GPU can't compete with a card that has a more robust RT engine, even if it is, on average, $250.57 less expensive. I'm not judging, I'm just revealing the parameter that nVidia has implanted in your subconscious mind. You'll see the glaring flaw soon enough.

Now, let's look at the RX 7900 XTX vs the RTX 4070 Ti because your statement also means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4070 Ti so we'll examine that scenario as well.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4070 Ti:

The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior to that of the RTX 4070 Ti:

Average price at Microcenter:
RTX 4070 Ti - $824.89
RX 7900 XTX - $1064.64
The RTX 4070 Ti is, on average, $239.75 less expensive than the RX 7900 XTX.

Now we evaluate the results:
Parameter #1 - The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenatio #2 - YES
Parameter #1 remains valid.

Parameter #2 - The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior

Parameter #3 - The card with the slower GPU and superior RT engine is at least $250.57 more expensive
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU, superior RT engine and is only $239.75 more expensive than the RTX 4070 Ti.

What these scenarios show is that the RTX 4070 Ti is the uncompetitive product because it loses to the RX 7900 XTX in all performance types and is closer in price to the RX 7900 XTX than the RX 7900 XTX is to the RTX 4080, despite the fact that the RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than that of the RTX 4080.

Because your parameters more than reverse themselves when the cards are switched, your parameters comparing the two brands are irrational and will always end with an nVidia win. You can't deny that the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4080 are far more similar in peformance than the RX 7900 XTX and the RTX 4070 Ti, even though the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4070 Ti are actually closer in price. Looking at this objectively, the RTX 4070 Ti is actually competing against TWO Radeon cards because we've accepted that the RX 7900 XTX competes with the RTX 4080. Since the competitive price radius is ~$250, the RTX 4070 is facing the RX 7900 XTX and so there's no reason whatsoever to buy the RTX 4070 Ti.

Can you now see what an illogical mess that nVidia has managed to fool you into believing? I'm not showing this to insult you I'm showing you this to set you straight, to show you what nVidia has done to you, not for your benefit but for theirs. Now, if you want to be pissed off about it and go hide without responding, then you're a whiny baby and aren't worth the time that I took to do this. However, if you accept the obvious and objective reality of the situation, then you're a man and I'm glad I could help because that's all that I'm trying to do. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I've literally seen it all at this point.

In any case, I know that someone else reading this will be nodding their head at what I wrote and if it helps them, it was worth the time and effort.

It's bad because after years of high prices, performance stagnation and nVidia's behavior, people want to buy a 7900XT/XTX at the right price.

Nah, nVidia's bad behaviour has been going on for decades but only people who pay attention to tech are even remotely aware of it. For most people, they know as much about GeForce vs Radeon as they do about GE vs Whirlpool.

It's the people who DO know and still support companies like nVidia and/or Intel who I say are self-centred psychopaths. This is of course restricted to people who only game because it's reasonable to give people who need specific Intel or nVidia features for professional applications a pass.

that makes no sense, on one side console users don't care about the components, like i said they would buy consoles with a coca cola APU, and sony and microsoft would never go for it, they are paying for a component not marketing a company, maybe if AMD made a big discount

Actually it makes perfect sense because it gives them more brand awareness. Just because someone owns a console doesn't mean that they'll never own a PC and if they're familiar with AMD, they'll happily use it. That's why the "Intel inside" sticker was so successful. It put the brand into people's heads.

 

[ModEl4]

So, AMD feels their prices are ok...loool

Imagine if RTX 4080 instead of being 4% behind in 4K raster vs 7900XTX was 4% faster and Nvidia was going with the message "Fastest GPU under $1200" it would have been equally ridiculous...

------------------------------------------------------
Anyone remember seeing prices in Newegg (way before Black Friday) like $219 RX 6600 entry models (when RTX 3050 which isn't even comparable in raster was at $259 or more) or $535 ASRock RX 6800XT Phantom Gaming - not an entry model - (when at the same time entry RTX 3080 models was going for $699 at best in the same store) or $369 RX 6700XT entry models etc. (all these without mail-in rebates, for example RX6600 was going $189 with $30 mail-in rebates...)
Now it makes sense why (8% market share in Q3) AMD partners was willing to sell at so low prices... (of course at these prices it was easy to recommend only AMD cards to my friends!)

 

[Vayra86]

Only if people are such sheep that they're willing to pay that. I was a sheep myself and paid way more for my card than I should have. In my defence, I've learnt my lesson and will never do it again. The customers define the prices based on what they're willing to pay. People are fed up and so only the cards that give "not horrible" performance for the money are getting sold (RTX 4090, RX 7900 XTX). Cards like the RTX 4080, RX 7900 XT and even the RTX 4080 12GB4070 Ti are already gathering dust.

Why shouldn't AMD follow them? If consumers are such sheep that they'll slit their own throats for an nVidia card, why shouldn't AMD demand that they slit their wrists for one of theirs? If you're running a business and your competitor raises their prices to pie-in-the-sky levels, then not increasing your own prices to both beat theirs and increase your own margins would get you removed as CEO by the shareholders.

This sentence reveals that nVidia's marketing has successfully programmed you. You say that they can't compete and yet nVidia is the younger of the two GPU makers. If Radeon couldn't compete, it wouldn't have kept AMD afloat during the FX-era and would be dead today so actual events prove your words false. You have failed to see through nVidia's marketing BS. I have to admit that it's very effective marketing BS because it seems that most people have fallen for it and what it does is set a parameter in your brain that is illogical, a parameter that will always show nVidia as better no matter what. This is why a lot of people in marketing are psychologists, they know how to change the way people think.

What nVidia wants is for you to be unable to separate the card from the branding. The truth is that the competition is not between AMD and nVidia, in fact, it never was. The competition is between the individual cards at the individual performance tiers and/or price points. Like, the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XTX don't compete with each other because they're too far separated in price and performance tier. I'll use some scenarios to reveal the illogical parameter that nVidia put in your subconscious, the one that makes you believe that nVidia is "just better, because". You won't be able to deny my result in the end.

Your statement is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce which means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4080 so let's examine those two cards.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4080:

The RTX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior to that of the RTX 4080:

Average price at Microcenter:
RX 7900 XTX - $1,063.64
RTX 4080 - $1,314.21

The RX 7900 XTX is, on average, $250.57 less expensive than the RTX 4080.

So, you say that AMD can't compete, period which makes this scenario valid. Therefore, your parameters are that a card with a faster GPU can't compete with a card that has a more robust RT engine, even if it is, on average, $250.57 less expensive. I'm not judging, I'm just revealing the parameter that nVidia has implanted in your subconscious mind. You'll see the glaring flaw soon enough.

Now, let's look at the RX 7900 XTX vs the RTX 4070 Ti because your statement also means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4070 Ti so we'll examine that scenario as well.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4070 Ti:

The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior to that of the RTX 4070 Ti:

Average price at Microcenter:
RTX 4070 Ti - $824.89
RX 7900 XTX - $1064.64
The RTX 4070 Ti is, on average, $239.75 less expensive than the RX 7900 XTX.

Now we evaluate the results:
Parameter #1 - The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenatio #2 - YES
Parameter #1 remains valid.

Parameter #2 - The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior

Parameter #3 - The card with the slower GPU and superior RT engine is at least $250.57 more expensive
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU, superior RT engine and is only $239.75 more expensive than the RTX 4070 Ti.

What these scenarios show is that the RTX 4070 Ti is the uncompetitive product because it loses to the RX 7900 XTX in all performance types and is closer in price to the RX 7900 XTX than the RX 7900 XTX is to the RTX 4080, despite the fact that the RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than that of the RTX 4080.

Because your parameters more than reverse themselves when the cards are switched, your parameters comparing the two brands are irrational and will always end with an nVidia win. You can't deny that the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4080 are far more similar in peformance than the RX 7900 XTX and the RTX 4070 Ti, even though the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4070 Ti are actually closer in price. Looking at this objectively, the RTX 4070 Ti is actually competing against TWO Radeon cards because we've accepted that the RX 7900 XTX competes with the RTX 4080. Since the competitive price radius is ~$250, the RTX 4070 is facing the RX 7900 XTX and so there's no reason whatsoever to buy the RTX 4070 Ti.

Can you now see what an illogical mess that nVidia has managed to fool you into believing? I'm not showing this to insult you I'm showing you this to set you straight, to show you what nVidia has done to you, not for your benefit but for theirs. Now, if you want to be pissed off about it and go hide without responding, then you're a whiny baby and aren't worth the time that I took to do this. However, if you accept the obvious and objective reality of the situation, then you're a man and I'm glad I could help because that's all that I'm trying to do. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I've literally seen it all at this point.

In any case, I know that someone else reading this will be nodding their head at what I wrote and if it helps them, it was worth the time and effort.

Nah, nVidia's bad behaviour has been going on for decades but only people who pay attention to tech are even remotely aware of it. For most people, they know as much about GeForce vs Radeon as they do about GE vs Whirlpool.

It's the people who DO know and still support companies like nVidia and/or Intel who I say are self-centred psychopaths. This is of course restricted to people who only game because it's reasonable to give people who need specific Intel or nVidia features for professional applications a pass.


Actually it makes perfect sense because it gives them more brand awareness. Just because someone owns a console doesn't mean that they'll never own a PC and if they're familiar with AMD, they'll happily use it. That's why the "Intel inside" sticker was so successful. It put the brand into people's heads.

Well done. And that's why AMD needs that sticker on 'their' consoles. Or something, somewhere, as a strong reminder every time this 'runs on AMD'.

Nvidia commands a premium because AMD has shit marketing, and this has been going on for at least two full decades, if not longer.
Nvidia also commands a premium because the perception is that they're having less (or smaller) problems. And, again, a part of that reality is marketing. Another part is consistency. Said it a lot before... consistency = trust. Consistent releases, product stacks, etc. That's why we have the x80/x70ti shitstorm as it is. Nvidia damaged its consistency. People strongly dislike that, from what used to be 'a reliable party'.

Note how I'm not saying a thing about the GPUs themselves. The 7900 line up is fine. RDNA2, is fine. But the stuff around it, shows us a company unwilling to really make a dent. That goes for the vapor chamber fail as much as it goes for its pricing compared to Nvidia, but also the volume they put out in the market, and also the late AIB showings.

 

[gffermari]

Only if people are such sheep that they're willing to pay that. I was a sheep myself and paid way more for my card than I should have. In my defence, I've learnt my lesson and will never do it again. The customers define the prices based on what they're willing to pay. People are fed up and so only the cards that give "not horrible" performance for the money are getting sold (RTX 4090, RX 7900 XTX). Cards like the RTX 4080, RX 7900 XT and even the RTX 4080 12GB4070 Ti are already gathering dust.

Why shouldn't AMD follow them? If consumers are such sheep that they'll slit their own throats for an nVidia card, why shouldn't AMD demand that they slit their wrists for one of theirs? If you're running a business and your competitor raises their prices to pie-in-the-sky levels, then not increasing your own prices to both beat theirs and increase your own margins would get you removed as CEO by the shareholders.

This sentence reveals that nVidia's marketing has successfully programmed you. You say that they can't compete and yet nVidia is the younger of the two GPU makers. If Radeon couldn't compete, it wouldn't have kept AMD afloat during the FX-era and would be dead today so actual events prove your words false. You have failed to see through nVidia's marketing BS. I have to admit that it's very effective marketing BS because it seems that most people have fallen for it and what it does is set a parameter in your brain that is illogical, a parameter that will always show nVidia as better no matter what. This is why a lot of people in marketing are psychologists, they know how to change the way people think.

What nVidia wants is for you to be unable to separate the card from the branding. The truth is that the competition is not between AMD and nVidia, in fact, it never was. The competition is between the individual cards at the individual performance tiers and/or price points. Like, the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XTX don't compete with each other because they're too far separated in price and performance tier. I'll use some scenarios to reveal the illogical parameter that nVidia put in your subconscious, the one that makes you believe that nVidia is "just better, because". You won't be able to deny my result in the end.

Your statement is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce which means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4080 so let's examine those two cards.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4080:

The RTX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior to that of the RTX 4080:

Average price at Microcenter:
RX 7900 XTX - $1,063.64
RTX 4080 - $1,314.21

The RX 7900 XTX is, on average, $250.57 less expensive than the RTX 4080.

So, you say that AMD can't compete, period which makes this scenario valid. Therefore, your parameters are that a card with a faster GPU can't compete with a card that has a more robust RT engine, even if it is, on average, $250.57 less expensive. I'm not judging, I'm just revealing the parameter that nVidia has implanted in your subconscious mind. You'll see the glaring flaw soon enough.

Now, let's look at the RX 7900 XTX vs the RTX 4070 Ti because your statement also means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4070 Ti so we'll examine that scenario as well.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4070 Ti:

The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior to that of the RTX 4070 Ti:

Average price at Microcenter:
RTX 4070 Ti - $824.89
RX 7900 XTX - $1064.64
The RTX 4070 Ti is, on average, $239.75 less expensive than the RX 7900 XTX.

Now we evaluate the results:
Parameter #1 - The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenatio #2 - YES
Parameter #1 remains valid.

Parameter #2 - The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior

Parameter #3 - The card with the slower GPU and superior RT engine is at least $250.57 more expensive
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU, superior RT engine and is only $239.75 more expensive than the RTX 4070 Ti.

What these scenarios show is that the RTX 4070 Ti is the uncompetitive product because it loses to the RX 7900 XTX in all performance types and is closer in price to the RX 7900 XTX than the RX 7900 XTX is to the RTX 4080, despite the fact that the RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than that of the RTX 4080.

Because your parameters more than reverse themselves when the cards are switched, your parameters comparing the two brands are irrational and will always end with an nVidia win. You can't deny that the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4080 are far more similar in peformance than the RX 7900 XTX and the RTX 4070 Ti, even though the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4070 Ti are actually closer in price. Looking at this objectively, the RTX 4070 Ti is actually competing against TWO Radeon cards because we've accepted that the RX 7900 XTX competes with the RTX 4080. Since the competitive price radius is ~$250, the RTX 4070 is facing the RX 7900 XTX and so there's no reason whatsoever to buy the RTX 4070 Ti.

Can you now see what an illogical mess that nVidia has managed to fool you into believing? I'm not showing this to insult you I'm showing you this to set you straight, to show you what nVidia has done to you, not for your benefit but for theirs. Now, if you want to be pissed off about it and go hide without responding, then you're a whiny baby and aren't worth the time that I took to do this. However, if you accept the obvious and objective reality of the situation, then you're a man and I'm glad I could help because that's all that I'm trying to do. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I've literally seen it all at this point.

In any case, I know that someone else reading this will be nodding their head at what I wrote and if it helps them, it was worth the time and effort.

Nah, nVidia's bad behaviour has been going on for decades but only people who pay attention to tech are even remotely aware of it. For most people, they know as much about GeForce vs Radeon as they do about GE vs Whirlpool.

It's the people who DO know and still support companies like nVidia and/or Intel who I say are self-centred psychopaths. This is of course restricted to people who only game because it's reasonable to give people who need specific Intel or nVidia features for professional applications a pass.


Actually it makes perfect sense because it gives them more brand awareness. Just because someone owns a console doesn't mean that they'll never own a PC and if they're familiar with AMD, they'll happily use it. That's why the "Intel inside" sticker was so successful. It put the brand into people's heads.

....a hell of a reading mate!!

At first, AMD cannot compete with nVidia in general, that's why their 7900XTX competes with the 4080 and not the 4090. The last time they competed was in 7970 era.

Second, the 7900XTX is 5% faster than the 4080 and 16 (up to 35+) in raster and RT, respectively.
So it cannot compete with it. And that's why it costs less.
For me it's not cheaper enough to justify the difference in performance. I remind you that anyone can find similar RT performance in a used 3080/3090 or less money.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the AMD pricecut.

 

[phanbuey]

I think they need more X's in the names of cards.

 

[Selaya]

[ ... ] The last time they competed was in 7970 era.
[ ... ]

clearly the 6900xt was vaporware and never actually existed

 

[Kapone33]

clearly the 6900xt was vaporware and never actually existed

What world do you live in? The 6900Xt was one of the most readily available cards you could buy retail.

 

[ColinB123]

Personally, I buy the 'best' card for my needs, when I need them (not very often).

Traditionally, I bought ATI/AMD since the old VGA Wonder days and wrestling with the dreaded Catalyst Command Center. How I hated that software, which insisted on being the only method for installing ANY graphics driver! Needing a half-height low (75w) wattage card, the GTX1050Ti made by MSI was outstanding for its small graphics card. I suggest that the 10-series from nVidia was what really launched them into the lead. I even managed to get it to play MSFS (at low frame rates with all the eye-candy turned off).

At the end of 2020 I needed a new build, and chose the RTX3070, bought on launch day, at MSRP. Sure, it was probably double the price I'd have liked to have paid! On the other hand, it pretty much kept up with a 2080, which cost double - at least that's how I justified it to myself. Like many others who have splashed out during Covid, I don't expect to buy a graphics card for years to come.

So sorry, AMD, but you can't do anything to get me to buy a Radeon card (short of blowing up my 3070).
Now, an X3D.........
(I bet those have better margins, too)

I think AMD will be in a difficult spot with its graphics division. AMD is getting better at diversifying, so that income and opportunity are better managed as a whole. But I don't think it really needs to compete at the top-end of the graphics card space.

 

[Selaya]

What world do you live in? The 6900Xt was one of the most readily available cards you could buy retail.

wts sarcasm detectors

 

[Vario]

Well done. And that's why AMD needs that sticker on 'their' consoles. Or something, somewhere, as a strong reminder every time this 'runs on AMD'.

Nvidia commands a premium because AMD has shit marketing, and this has been going on for at least two full decades, if not longer.
Nvidia also commands a premium because the perception is that they're having less (or smaller) problems. And, again, a part of that reality is marketing. Another part is consistency. Said it a lot before... consistency = trust. Consistent releases, product stacks, etc. That's why we have the x80/x70ti shitstorm as it is. Nvidia damaged its consistency. People strongly dislike that, from what used to be 'a reliable party'.

Note how I'm not saying a thing about the GPUs themselves. The 7900 line up is fine. RDNA2, is fine. But the stuff around it, shows us a company unwilling to really make a dent. That goes for the vapor chamber fail as much as it goes for its pricing compared to Nvidia, but also the volume they put out in the market, and also the late AIB showings.

I thought this old ATI (pre AMD) ad was particularly tasteless considering the trend of SWATing streamers

I think AMD marketing works well for what it is, they seem to create a large die hard forum fan base using astroturfing, though it can get a bit cringe conspiracy theory oriented. I've never seen any Nvidia or Intel purchasers willing to shill as hard for their respective purchased product's manufacturer.

 

[Avro Arrow]

....a hell of a reading mate!!

You have my respect my friend. I wasn't sure if you'd reply but here you are and that shows you're solid.

At first, AMD cannot compete with nVidia in general, that's why their 7900XTX competes with the 4080 and not the 4090. The last time they competed was in 7970 era.

Actually, the last time that AMD competed in the top-end with nVidia was with the R9 Fury and Fury-X because they toppled the GTX 980 from its perch and nVidia had to scramble to release the GTX 980 Ti to take the crown back.

What I think you mean is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce at the very top-end, which I do agree with, but I don't know if it's a matter of "can't" or "can't be bothered". Producing a card like the RTX 4090 probably costs a mint and honestly, if I were VP in charge of ATi, I doubt that I'd be interested enough to incur the cost of producing such a niche product, especially since the relatively few people that do buy those cards generally want nVidia anyway because of brand perception. I can just hear people saying, "I'm not spending $1,600 on a Radeon!" which would make it a financial disaster for AMD.

What I meant was that AMD competes very well at the price points that most people are willing to spend (sub-$1000). Sure, nothing can touch the 4090 but I have absolutely ZERO interest in a card like that, even if I were rich (because I'd feel stupid buying it) and I'm pretty sure that 99% of the GPU market feels the same way. When you think about it, what does the RTX really offer that can't be achieved with the RTX 4080 or RX 7900 XTX? Maybe RT gaming at 4K without using DLSS or FSR? Definitely not worth $600 to me, not even close. Maybe it has some professional-level capabilities, but if I'm a graphics professional, I'm not looking for GeForce, I'm looking for Quadro.

Second, the 7900XTX is 5% faster than the 4080 and 16 (up to 35+) in raster and RT, respectively.
So it cannot compete with it. And that's why it costs less.

That's only true if you care about RT. I don't care about RT (because I can't tell the difference anyway) and so, for me, the RTX 4080 cannot compete with the RX 7900 XTX because the RX 7900 XTX is still the faster card. It's really just a matter of perspective. When you look at it the other way, like I showed with the RTX 4070 Ti, it also cannot compete with the RX 7900 XTX unless someone literally can't afford anything better. Now, the RX 7900 XT is a completely different story altogether because that's as useless as the RTX 4070 Ti but still costs more. That card's a real $hit-show!

For me it's not cheaper enough to justify the difference in performance. I remind you that anyone can find similar RT performance in a used 3080/3090 or less money.

You're not wrong and in those situations, that's what people should do because they'll get a lot more for their money that way.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for the AMD pricecut.

It's coming, of that there can be no doubt. However, if you have an RTX 3090, just keep using that until the pricing fixes itself and it will fix itself. The way things are right now just isn't sustainable. I guess that we can call this the "GPU Bubble" and like all bubbles, sooner or later, it's going to burst. I actually see PC tech in general having a price bubble which is why I grabbed an R7-5800X3D on sale. I'm going to stick with my X570 mobo, 32GB of DDR4-3200 and my RX 6800 XT for as long as I can. When you don't need something, you can pick and choose the most advantageous time to buy it. I'm going to watch how the AM5 platform shapes up and then decide what to get and when to get it. I might not need to though because by the time my R7-5800X3D is no longer really viable for gaming, AM6 might be out!

Here's to hoping, Cheers!

I thought this old ATI (pre AMD) ad was particularly tasteless considering the trend of SWATing streamers

I think AMD marketing works well for what it is, they seem to create a large die hard forum fan base using astroturfing, though it can get a bit cringe conspiracy theory oriented. I've never seen any Nvidia or Intel purchasers willing to shill as hard for their respective purchased product's manufacturer.

I don't shill for AMD, I just refuse to support Intel or nVidia because of the first-hand experiences I got when I worked for Tiger Direct. The only reason that I buy Radeon cards and Ryzen CPUs is because there's nothing else. If VIA started making CPUs, chipsets and S3 GPUs again, I'd be looking just as hard at them as I do towards AMD. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a hater. Having said that, my all-AMD experience that started with a Phenom II X4 940 and an XFX Radeon HD 4870 has been extremely positive. If it sucked as bad as the Intel and nVidia fanboys try to claim, there's no way I would have kept going back.

BTW, if you say that you've never seen Intel or nVidia shills, you're either lying or you're blissfully blind to it. The thing is that Intel and nVidia marketing is better than AMD's so they get reviewers and "influencers" to shill for them because it's far more effective. You don't see what they do because they make it very subtle, like putting Radeon cards at the bottom of a chart even when they're out-performing their GeForce counterparts. Little things like that add up in people's brains and do influence their thought patterns. Marketing is just another form of psychology and the ones most affected by it are generally the ones most likely to buy into religion. The more intelligent people are much harder to fool.

 

[Dr. Dro]

It's coming, of that there can be no doubt. However, if you have an RTX 3090, just keep using that until the pricing fixes itself and it will fix itself. The way things are right now just isn't sustainable. I guess that we can call this the "GPU Bubble" and like all bubbles, sooner or later, it's going to burst. I actually see PC tech in general having a price bubble which is why I grabbed an R7-5800X3D on sale. I'm going to stick with my X570 mobo, 32GB of DDR4-3200 and my RX 6800 XT for as long as I can. When you don't need something, you can pick and choose the most advantageous time to buy it. I'm going to watch how the AM5 platform shapes up and then decide what to get and when to get it. I might not need to though because by the time my R7-5800X3D is no longer really viable for gaming, AM6 might be out!

Here's to hoping, Cheers!

That's the conclusion I am coming to. With AMD's incessant technical issues and NVIDIA's crappy pricing, I might as well just try and hold with my 3090 through this generation, and just buy the 5090 when it's out. Or, the 8900 XTX/RDNA 4, if AMD ever gets their things straight.

Ugh. It's the first time I ever, and I mean ever, in over 15 years, that I feel the market and the situation is so utterly bad, it can't be salvaged, and I should just stay put.

 

[Avro Arrow]

That's the conclusion I am coming to. With AMD's incessant technical issues and NVIDIA's crappy pricing, I might as well just try and hold with my 3090 through this generation, and just buy the 5090 when it's out. Or, the 8900 XTX/RDNA 4, if AMD ever gets their things straight.

The driver issues that occur with Radeon cards are REALLY overblown and I can say that because I've been gaming happily with Radeons since 2008. If they were really that bad, I'd have stopped buying them. My RX 6800 XT has NEVER had a driver issue and for that matter, neither did my RX 5700 XT. I did have to RMA the 5700 XT (first Radeon I ever had trouble with) but it wasn't the drivers, it was the power delivery system. I know this because when I was getting system stability issues, the issues immediately stopped when I popped back in one of my R9 Furies. I didn't even re-install the drivers, I just used the same installation and it worked perfectly. If drivers are bad, they're bad for all cards. Needless to say, when I got my replacement RX 5700 XT from XFX, I didn't re-install the drivers because I wanted to see how they'd react. They worked perfectly.

Ugh. It's the first time I ever, and I mean ever, in over 15 years, that I feel the market and the situation is so utterly bad, it can't be salvaged, and I should just stay put.

Well, being able to stay put is one of the perks of buying a higher-end card, eh?

Personally, I buy the 'best' card for my needs, when I need them (not very often).

Traditionally, I bought ATI/AMD since the old VGA Wonder days

There's a blast from the past! The first video card I ever owned was the EGA Wonder! Ah, I feel old as dirt now!

 

[GreiverBlade]

that really has nothing to do with the survey, does it.

actually yes, since the original post depict a "grim" outcome, where theres is hardly one in view, in the end

and that does not change the fact that these console have a Radeon GPU in the SOC just not a discrete one

and i mentioned it nonetheless

well actually no, since it only focus on discrete ... oh well nothing really grim in the end, just logical follow up of these awful and weird time we got recently since 2020.

anyway, AMD did not have to do single thing for me to buy a Radeon, that RX 6700 XT i am rocking atm is the best bang for buck i had in years ... well i could have gone 3060Ti or a 3070 for the same performances, but the price was quite a bit higher (disclaimer, i do not rally care about RT ) thus i voted with my budget and wallet.

as i said in my first post on the thread: "i am glad and satisfied that i bough a Radeon GPU"

The driver issues that occur with Radeon cards are REALLY overblown and I can say that because I've been gaming happily with Radeons since 2008.

same here ... while i had only one real issue with and ATI/AMD cards since 1991 (ATI Mach64 VT ) i had countless rollback on Nvidia (starting with a TNT1 till a 1070 )

 

[Avro Arrow]

clearly the 6900xt was vaporware and never actually existed

Well, his definition of competition seems to be trading the top spot back and forth and the RX 6900 XT and RX 6950 XT weren't right at the top of the pile with the RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti but they were damn close and cost about $500 less. They were still rip-offs because they were themselves $350 more expensive than the RX 6800 XT but only like 9% faster. They did completely out-perform the RTX 3080 though, there's no doubt about that. Every time I see some "expert" trying to compare the RTX 3080 with the RX 6900 XT I'm like "The RTX 3080 competed with the RX 6800 XT!". This is a part of how nVidia's marketing machine works, make subtle inferences that are nonsensical to other tech experts because the average Joe won't know better and there aren't enough honest tech experts to make that big of a difference.

IIRC, the last time that the fastest card in the world was a Radeon was when the R9 Fury and Fury-X both toppled the GTX 980. They held the #1 and #2 spot until nVidia managed to release the GTX 980 Ti. They then held the #2 and #3 spot for the rest of the generation. To me though, competition is about offering a product that people think is worth buying over your competitor's product. The fact that Radeon has survived this long means that they have been able to compete successfully against nVidia.

What world do you live in? The 6900Xt was one of the most readily available cards you could buy retail.

Selaya is referring to gffermari's assertion that Radeon hadn't competed with GeForce since the HD 7970. The RX 6900 XT definitely DID compete with nVidia's RTX 3090/Ti because it was faster at 1080p and 1440p but it was slower at 2160p. I could never understand why that was, but it was.

 

[Dr. Dro]

The driver issues that occur with Radeon cards are REALLY overblown and I can say that because I've been gaming happily with Radeons since 2008. If they were really that bad, I'd have stopped buying them. My RX 6800 XT has NEVER had a driver issue and for that matter, neither did my RX 5700 XT. I did have to RMA the 5700 XT (first Radeon I ever had trouble with) but it wasn't the drivers, it was the power delivery system. I know this because when I was getting system stability issues, the issues immediately stopped when I popped back in one of my R9 Furies. I didn't even re-install the drivers, I just used the same installation and it worked perfectly. If drivers are bad, they're bad for all cards. Needless to say, when I got my replacement RX 5700 XT from XFX, I didn't re-install the drivers because I wanted to see how they'd react. They worked perfectly.

Well, being able to stay put is one of the perks of buying a higher-end card, eh?


There's a blast from the past! The first video card I ever owned was the EGA Wonder! Ah, I feel old as dirt now!

It's not the drivers I am referring to, for once. I agree, Radeon driver issues are overblown (though they were very much real in the RDNA 1 days), but... it's the whole nonsense with zero availability of custom design AIB cards and the defective reference design cooling that will most certainly end in a recall, no matter how much AMD fights it.

I just don't feel it... and NVIDIA's product stack is an insult to their customers and to their own engineering team. Ada truly is a quantum leap in microarchitecture engineering - the only problem is that there is no product in the market, much less any product that customers can actually purchase, that display this achievement. The RTX 4090 is the closest to it, but with 14 SMs plus all associated L2$ disabled, and with the improvements that are on tap for the year, I refuse to bestow that product the award it deserved for best in class, as it simply does not display the Ada architecture's true potential. It's a shame, and triple shame on NVIDIA for trying to pass that -60 class turd as a 4080 12 GB, and then finally releasing it as a 4070 Ti with a $100 cut - they still make money!

 

[Vario]

I don't shill for AMD, I just refuse to support Intel or nVidia because of the first-hand experiences I got when I worked for Tiger Direct. The only reason that I buy Radeon cards and Ryzen CPUs is because there's nothing else. If VIA started making CPUs, chipsets and S3 GPUs again, I'd be looking just as hard at them as I do towards AMD. I'm not a fanboy, I'm a hater. Having said that, my all-AMD experience that started with a Phenom II X4 940 and an XFX Radeon HD 4870 has been extremely positive. If it sucked as bad as the Intel and nVidia fanboys try to claim, there's no way I would have kept going back.

BTW, if you say that you've never seen Intel or nVidia shills, you're either lying or you're blissfully blind to it. The thing is that Intel and nVidia marketing is better than AMD's so they get reviewers and "influencers" to shill for them because it's far more effective. You don't see what they do because they make it very subtle, like putting Radeon cards at the bottom of a chart even when they're out-performing their GeForce counterparts. Little things like that add up in people's brains and do influence their thought patterns. Marketing is just another form of psychology and the ones most affected by it are generally the ones most likely to buy into religion. The more intelligent people are much harder to fool.

Well, tiger direct is/was pretty sleazy.

 

[Selaya]

Well, his definition of competition seems to be trading the top spot back and forth and the RX 6900 XT and RX 6950 XT weren't right at the top of the pile with the RTX 3090 and 3090 Ti but they were damn close [ ... ]

wdym it was exactly trading blows w/ the 3090; basically all reviews had at least one title that outperformed the 3090 generally, and a lot outperformed the 3090 @1080p

 

[candymancan21]

So im curious why people always talk bad about amd drivers.. ive had ati/amd and nvidis cards for 20+ years.. besides some bad drivers back in the ati radeon days.. i havent had issues ? Ever... and this is 20+ years of owning... 9700pros R9 fury.. 4870s and now a 6900xt...

In fact i remember nvidia cheating in the past lowering details via drivers to inflate framerate..

What im more worried about is AMD graphics devision not being funded properly anymore.. and them fading away... Then we will all be stuck with nvidia.. Market manipulated by 1 brand isnt fun.. Its why the gov forced Intel to have AMD as competition back in the early days when they were formed.

But if nvidia has 88% market share.. then i guess everyone loves buying overpriced cards

 

[eidairaman1]

Hmm interesting

RTX 3000 Series artifacts, black squares that flicker in desktop and 2D mode

Want to make this post as maybe it will help other users that they think they got a faulty RTX 3000 cards, so if you have this similar issue you can breath relax because your graphic card its ok, the faulty are the nvidia drivers, like any version looks like only afect RTX 3000 series. There is...

www.techpowerup.com

 

[gffermari]

You have my respect my friend. I wasn't sure if you'd reply but here you are and that shows you're solid.

Actually, the last time that AMD competed in the top-end with nVidia was with the R9 Fury and Fury-X because they toppled the GTX 980 from its perch and nVidia had to scramble to release the GTX 980 Ti to take the crown back.

What I think you mean is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce at the very top-end, which I do agree with, but I don't know if it's a matter of "can't" or "can't be bothered". Producing a card like the RTX 4090 probably costs a mint and honestly, if I were VP in charge of ATi, I doubt that I'd be interested enough to incur the cost of producing such a niche product, especially since the relatively few people that do buy those cards generally want nVidia anyway because of brand perception. I can just hear people saying, "I'm not spending $1,600 on a Radeon!" which would make it a financial disaster for AMD.

What I meant was that AMD competes very well at the price points that most people are willing to spend (sub-$1000). Sure, nothing can touch the 4090 but I have absolutely ZERO interest in a card like that, even if I were rich (because I'd feel stupid buying it) and I'm pretty sure that 99% of the GPU market feels the same way. When you think about it, what does the RTX really offer that can't be achieved with the RTX 4080 or RX 7900 XTX? Maybe RT gaming at 4K without using DLSS or FSR? Definitely not worth $600 to me, not even close. Maybe it has some professional-level capabilities, but if I'm a graphics professional, I'm not looking for GeForce, I'm looking for Quadro.

That's only true if you care about RT. I don't care about RT (because I can't tell the difference anyway) and so, for me, the RTX 4080 cannot compete with the RX 7900 XTX because the RX 7900 XTX is still the faster card. It's really just a matter of perspective. When you look at it the other way, like I showed with the RTX 4070 Ti, it also cannot compete with the RX 7900 XTX unless someone literally can't afford anything better. Now, the RX 7900 XT is a completely different story altogether because that's as useless as the RTX 4070 Ti but still costs more. That card's a real $hit-show!

You're not wrong and in those situations, that's what people should do because they'll get a lot more for their money that way.

It's coming, of that there can be no doubt. However, if you have an RTX 3090, just keep using that until the pricing fixes itself and it will fix itself. The way things are right now just isn't sustainable. I guess that we can call this the "GPU Bubble" and like all bubbles, sooner or later, it's going to burst. I actually see PC tech in general having a price bubble which is why I grabbed an R7-5800X3D on sale. I'm going to stick with my X570 mobo, 32GB of DDR4-3200 and my RX 6800 XT for as long as I can. When you don't need something, you can pick and choose the most advantageous time to buy it. I'm going to watch how the AM5 platform shapes up and then decide what to get and when to get it. I might not need to though because by the time my R7-5800X3D is no longer really viable for gaming, AM6 might be out!

Here's to hoping, Cheers!

That thing about RT. We are in 2023 and most AAA games will have or even require RT acceleration. You can't say you don't care about RT. Atomic Heart, The Witcher, Alan Wake 2, Control 2, Cyberpunk 2, whatever with Unreal Engine 5 etc. will require strong RT performance.
Don't you care for these titles? Only for simply developed competitive MP fps?

AMD cannot charge that amount of money when their cards do not perform in RT. I don't care if they spit 2000fps in 1080p in COD or any other simple game. These games are playable anyway with ancient cards as well, like mine and worse.
I care how they perform where it matters. At 1440p/4K+RT.

By the way, the 7900XTX RT performance is very good. Not just acceptable.
Only in specific nVidia titles, like Portal RTX, it performs poorly.
AMD just had to price it at 799 or 849 max and kill the entire nvidia lineup.
The price should be mostly defined by the RT performance. The raster one is so excessive that it doesn't matter anymore. No matter what card from 3060Ti and above you have, the raster performance is ridiculously high.

I wrote it again. AMD should work with Epic on Unreal Engine 5's software/hardware ray tracing, so their cards perform on RTX level and better. Most next gen titles are being developed using UE5.
AMD has already a small advantage by accelerating the consoles but both of them are painfully slow on RT and the developers will cut features from their games.
The pc ports could take the most of the RDNA3 architecture if AMD work together with Epic.
Or nVidia will pay to make use of their tech and screw AMD once again.

So im curious why people always talk bad about amd drivers.. ive had ati/amd and nvidis cards for 20+ years.. besides some bad drivers back in the ati radeon days.. i havent had issues ? Ever... and this is 20+ years of owning... 9700pros R9 fury.. 4870s and now a 6900xt...

In fact i remember nvidia cheating in the past lowering details via drivers to inflate framerate..

What im more worried about is AMD graphics devision not being funded properly anymore.. and them fading away... Then we will all be stuck with nvidia.. Market manipulated by 1 brand isnt fun.. Its why the gov forced Intel to have AMD as competition back in the early days when they were formed.

But if nvidia has 88% market share.. then i guess everyone loves buying overpriced cards

I have various issues with AMD cards(5700XT temps, RX470 bios, R9 Nano spikes, 7970Ghz Crossfire gpu usage, 6950/70 stability after core unlocking, 4850 none, X1950Pro, 9600XT...don't remember) but never with their drivers.

The DIY pc gamers need a strong nVidia competitor. But AMD and consoles are ...some years behind nVidia.
Radeon department will not exist if they lose selling tech to the consoles and being 1 gen behind on the pcs for a 3-4 gens.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

That thing about RT. We are in 2023 and most AAA games will have or even require RT acceleration. You can't say you don't care about RT.

The thing is, from your very first line your totally wrong, I have a vega64, not the best at RT, I have yet to hear of any issue running any game, that will change in time Im sure But that "most" bit is a laughable stretch.

Second you can say you don't care about RT, lots of games and game moments at this point are little better than pre baked or the pre baked were at a level that was adequate, car games Never seen to gain much for example.

Plus given the performance Deg on competent path tracing it's still, not worth it for some.

And I own a lot of games now, probably near 500 minimum, the percentage of those that have RT isn't great, effectively I'm quite happy with the 2060 for a look into RT without much cost and to be fair, with dlss 2 even that GPU can use RTX effectively,. obviously with some compromise.

 

[JustBenching]

Only if people are such sheep that they're willing to pay that. I was a sheep myself and paid way more for my card than I should have. In my defence, I've learnt my lesson and will never do it again. The customers define the prices based on what they're willing to pay. People are fed up and so only the cards that give "not horrible" performance for the money are getting sold (RTX 4090, RX 7900 XTX). Cards like the RTX 4080, RX 7900 XT and even the RTX 4080 12GB4070 Ti are already gathering dust.

Why shouldn't AMD follow them? If consumers are such sheep that they'll slit their own throats for an nVidia card, why shouldn't AMD demand that they slit their wrists for one of theirs? If you're running a business and your competitor raises their prices to pie-in-the-sky levels, then not increasing your own prices to both beat theirs and increase your own margins would get you removed as CEO by the shareholders.

This sentence reveals that nVidia's marketing has successfully programmed you. You say that they can't compete and yet nVidia is the younger of the two GPU makers. If Radeon couldn't compete, it wouldn't have kept AMD afloat during the FX-era and would be dead today so actual events prove your words false. You have failed to see through nVidia's marketing BS. I have to admit that it's very effective marketing BS because it seems that most people have fallen for it and what it does is set a parameter in your brain that is illogical, a parameter that will always show nVidia as better no matter what. This is why a lot of people in marketing are psychologists, they know how to change the way people think.

What nVidia wants is for you to be unable to separate the card from the branding. The truth is that the competition is not between AMD and nVidia, in fact, it never was. The competition is between the individual cards at the individual performance tiers and/or price points. Like, the RTX 4090 and RX 7900 XTX don't compete with each other because they're too far separated in price and performance tier. I'll use some scenarios to reveal the illogical parameter that nVidia put in your subconscious, the one that makes you believe that nVidia is "just better, because". You won't be able to deny my result in the end.

Your statement is that Radeon can't compete with GeForce which means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4080 so let's examine those two cards.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4080:

The RTX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior to that of the RTX 4080:

Average price at Microcenter:
RX 7900 XTX - $1,063.64
RTX 4080 - $1,314.21

The RX 7900 XTX is, on average, $250.57 less expensive than the RTX 4080.

So, you say that AMD can't compete, period which makes this scenario valid. Therefore, your parameters are that a card with a faster GPU can't compete with a card that has a more robust RT engine, even if it is, on average, $250.57 less expensive. I'm not judging, I'm just revealing the parameter that nVidia has implanted in your subconscious mind. You'll see the glaring flaw soon enough.

Now, let's look at the RX 7900 XTX vs the RTX 4070 Ti because your statement also means that the RX 7900 XTX can't compete with the RTX 4070 Ti so we'll examine that scenario as well.

The RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than the GPU of the RTX 4070 Ti:

The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior to that of the RTX 4070 Ti:

Average price at Microcenter:
RTX 4070 Ti - $824.89
RX 7900 XTX - $1064.64
The RTX 4070 Ti is, on average, $239.75 less expensive than the RX 7900 XTX.

Now we evaluate the results:
Parameter #1 - The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenatio #2 - YES
Parameter #1 remains valid.

Parameter #2 - The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is inferior
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX's RT engine is superior

Parameter #3 - The card with the slower GPU and superior RT engine is at least $250.57 more expensive
Scenario #1 - YES
Scenario #2 - NO <- The RX 7900 XTX has the faster GPU, superior RT engine and is only $239.75 more expensive than the RTX 4070 Ti.

What these scenarios show is that the RTX 4070 Ti is the uncompetitive product because it loses to the RX 7900 XTX in all performance types and is closer in price to the RX 7900 XTX than the RX 7900 XTX is to the RTX 4080, despite the fact that the RX 7900 XTX's GPU is faster than that of the RTX 4080.

Because your parameters more than reverse themselves when the cards are switched, your parameters comparing the two brands are irrational and will always end with an nVidia win. You can't deny that the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4080 are far more similar in peformance than the RX 7900 XTX and the RTX 4070 Ti, even though the RX 7900 XTX and RTX 4070 Ti are actually closer in price. Looking at this objectively, the RTX 4070 Ti is actually competing against TWO Radeon cards because we've accepted that the RX 7900 XTX competes with the RTX 4080. Since the competitive price radius is ~$250, the RTX 4070 is facing the RX 7900 XTX and so there's no reason whatsoever to buy the RTX 4070 Ti.

Can you now see what an illogical mess that nVidia has managed to fool you into believing? I'm not showing this to insult you I'm showing you this to set you straight, to show you what nVidia has done to you, not for your benefit but for theirs. Now, if you want to be pissed off about it and go hide without responding, then you're a whiny baby and aren't worth the time that I took to do this. However, if you accept the obvious and objective reality of the situation, then you're a man and I'm glad I could help because that's all that I'm trying to do. I've been building PCs since 1988 and I've literally seen it all at this point.

In any case, I know that someone else reading this will be nodding their head at what I wrote and if it helps them, it was worth the time and effort.

Nah, nVidia's bad behaviour has been going on for decades but only people who pay attention to tech are even remotely aware of it. For most people, they know as much about GeForce vs Radeon as they do about GE vs Whirlpool.

It's the people who DO know and still support companies like nVidia and/or Intel who I say are self-centred psychopaths. This is of course restricted to people who only game because it's reasonable to give people who need specific Intel or nVidia features for professional applications a pass.


Actually it makes perfect sense because it gives them more brand awareness. Just because someone owns a console doesn't mean that they'll never own a PC and if they're familiar with AMD, they'll happily use it. That's why the "Intel inside" sticker was so successful. It put the brand into people's heads.

When you start comparing prices, that by itself proves that amd cant compete. The prices can drop the 7900xtx on the other hand can't get faster. Nvidia dictates amds prices cause they do in fact have a better product. It has nothing to do with marketing

 

[Bomby569]

that can't help at all