Can't Manufacturers implement a system to check what is being run to prevent miners?

[RejZoR]

wow just wow people
the entitlement is real who the hell are you to tell somebody how they can use the product that they paid for

a very slippery slope this be

No, it's YOU who STILL don't get it. No one is preventing you from using it for whatever the F you want. You just lose the entitlement for servicing or replacement if you do. That's like buying a consumer vacuum cleaner, then using it to hoover entire freaking 50 story building and then send it for RMA because it fried itself from 12 hours of grinding every single day. Do you get it now? No one is preventing you from buying and using it in such way, you just can't expect same aftersale service as when you use it for purposes it was originally designed. Which is gaming and occasional compute. Not 24/7 max load grinding for months. Jesus, people seriously don't understand this?

 

[qubit]

I think mining should be made illegal. Problem solved. There, fixed it!

 

[dorsetknob]

I Suggest
Drum Roll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Intel® Xeon Phi™ processor is a bootable host processor that delivers massive parallelism and vectorization to support the most demanding high-performance computing applications. The integrated and power-efficient architecture delivers significantly more compute per unit of energy consumed versus comparable platforms to give you an improved total cost of ownership.1 The integration of memory and fabric topples the memory wall and reduces cost to help you solve your biggest challenges faster.

Wot Say you miners

 

[cdawall]

I Suggest
Drum Roll>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The Intel® Xeon Phi™ processor is a bootable host processor that delivers massive parallelism and vectorization to support the most demanding high-performance computing applications. The integrated and power-efficient architecture delivers significantly more compute per unit of energy consumed versus comparable platforms to give you an improved total cost of ownership.1 The integration of memory and fabric topples the memory wall and reduces cost to help you solve your biggest challenges faster.

Wot Say you miners

That no mining applications make use of it

 

[dorsetknob]

That no mining applications make use of it

In the Future maybe ???
would Speculate that if such a mining program adaptation was made to use the Xeon phi and it does scale for multi phi units then it probably be a Very profitable Adaptation
Its Also Designed for Such workloads It just takes an imaginative programmer to suss it out

 

[MrGenius]

Most cards these days are built with military class components designed to run continuously at max capacity for years on end without failure. And to survive temps that will never likely be reached while mining under any set of circumstances. What commonly dies on cards used for mining are the fans. And even those aren't really dying. They just need relubed. Other than that all this "mining kills cards" nonsense is completely unfounded BS. Miners don't usually hang on to them for very long, and they aren't being run anywhere near as hard, or under anywhere near as brutal conditions, as most folks are prone to exaggerating. Most cards used for mining and sold second hand typically still have more life left in them than they'll ever need. And will likely still run perfectly fine until long after they're totally obsolete and have little practical use anyway.

How do I know this? Because I own a card that was used for 6 months of mining before I purchased it. And guess what? The only thing "wrong" with it was a fan that needed relubed. And the card itself is still running strong 3+ years later. And by strong I mean holding up to daily benchmarking with extreme overclocking and overvolting way beyond what it was ever meant to endure. +200 mV core voltage and way more MHz core clock than would be considered "safe" or "sane" for even temporary use. And I still haven't managed to kill it. Even though it should have been nearly dead when I bought it right? Yeah...obviously not.

Anyway...there is no answer to the "problem". The ideal situation would be cheaper cards made just for mining that have no video outputs. Gamers won't want them and miners will want nothing else. But there's plenty of reasons why this hasn't/won't happen. Most are obvious if you think about it. It makes almost no sense at all that some such cards have even been produced in the limited quantities they have. And no wonder at all why the idea hasn't caught on, and never will. It's just plain dumb.

 

[erocker]

Sounds like an invasion of privacy. Then again, this is becoming commonplace because people seem to want "fairness/security" over freedom. Pretty weak and sad IMO.

 

[cdawall]

In the Future maybe ???
would Speculate that if such a mining program adaptation was made to use the Xeon phi and it does scale for multi phi units then it probably be a Very profitable Adaptation
Its Also Designed for Such workloads It just takes an imaginative programmer to suss it out

That all cost money something people wont put in.

 

[notb]

Why can't they make more cards!

Because you need manufacturing plants to make graphic cards?

I'm sure a Phone maker experiencing sustained selling out of a product would ramp up production to meet demand over time.

Thing is: most phones use very similar CPUs (or the same ones).
Samsung is the best example. They use both in-house CPUs (Exynos) and outsourced ARM chips in the same phones.
It's NOT that easy to make more GPUs.

And of course phone demand can vary by how much? 10%? 20%?
Because of mining GPU demand suddenly went up not by 10% but 10 times (or maybe 100?). There's no way they could supply the needed chips - even if they wanted to.

 

[R-T-B]

Did the mining coding not change a while back? I know very little about it but did the specialist ASIC systems not suffer because of it, pushing a greater drive towards GPUs?

Found this:

'
ASICS mining SHA256 mine bitcoin directly. Other algorithms mine another coin and trade it for bitcoin. Thank the altcoin market. ASICs had the potential to make mining energy efficient. Altcoins ruined it all.

Which is why I want the "telemetry" on the card. I don't want someone selling me a "pristine" gaming card that was tortured and abused for stupid mining. Am I suppose to just believe them blindly? Ahaha, not a chance.

Again, mining isn't near as abusive as most people believe. I think a card used for BOINC is just as bad.

In the Future maybe ???
would Speculate that if such a mining program adaptation was made to use the Xeon phi and it does scale for multi phi units then it probably be a Very profitable Adaptation
Its Also Designed for Such workloads It just takes an imaginative programmer to suss it out

ROI point is too high.

I think mining should be made illegal. Problem solved. There, fixed it!

This creates a whole host of other problems and ruins many peoples lives.

 

[hat]

Of course, the correct path is the tried and true "take care of your shit" approach. If you pack 20 cards in a box and stick them in the oven while simultaneously cooking a delicious pizza of course they're not going to last.

 

[OneMoar]

Of course, the correct path is the tried and true "take care of your shit" approach. If you pack 20 cards in a box and stick them in the oven while simultaneously cooking a delicious pizza of course they're not going to last.

but the pizza will be amazing

 

[hat]

It better be for what it will wind up costing

 

[remixedcat]

dumbest idea ever OP. you cant tell people what to do with their gpus..

 

[newtekie1]

If they can make dedicated mining cards with dedicated mining instructions to even further speed things up and separate them from gaming cards, I'm all for it. If they want to mine this shit, why not. And make it even better at that job, just separate them from gaming ones, otherwise buying graphic cards for gaming will never ever be the same again.

That is kind of what everyone thought when Bitcoin mining was eating up all the graphics cards. But then they figured out a way to design ASICs for dedicated mining. The same will eventually happen with these new currencies.

 

[R-T-B]

That is kind of what everyone thought when Bitcoin mining was eating up all the graphics cards. But then they figured out a way to design ASICs for dedicated mining. The same will eventually happen with these new currencies.

No, it won't, because the coins constantly switch algos. ASIC-resistant by nature.

The fact is, it is entirely feasible and has been done in the past. In the past, AMD(or maybe it was ATI at the time) implemented code right in their driver that detected certain activity and purposely reduced the performance of the card..

Again: Because of how compute is handled and the variety of algorithms used, it's really not.

The government(s) need to make cryptocurrencies illegal, and gpu prices will go back to normal, right.

Sure, wreck all the lives of people deeply invested with an industry so you can play video games.

GREAT IDEA!

 

[ppn]

I say they could just disable all Direct compute and CUDA alike capability. Nothing user oriented uses it except PhysX. If somebody wants it enabled let them pay double the price. The cards could have a simple counter like SSDs to denote their remaining life measured in Petabytes transferred as miners transfer a a lot of data, the warranty could be honored before certain amount.

 

[Solaris17]

Something like a security check that checks and prevents gaming cards from running mining software/algorithms.

From someone who knows a bit about security a few things come to mind. a distopian universe of ideas.

First. You could implement a check into something like the Gforce experience or catalyst suite to check common install locations AND running processes (via thumb print not necessarily name) for known encryption algorithm or programs.

What would they do with this information? They could in theory throttle or deny (sending the process to offload via CPU) the task and not allow it to use GPU time by restricting it. But that could probably be beaten with driver mods. and the GPU is too dumb to know the difference.

Slide change.

Given that mining really can be so brutal on GPUs whatif a class A piece of software implemented it? OCCT or afterburner? GPU-Z 3dload test or furmark. IF they implemented it could they (OEMs) reliably block it with there driver packages? Maybe they would need to issue or even have these companies PAY for a certificate that distinguished them from the opensource garbage on source forge. They could make a quick buck.

What if the "good guys" really didnt just run some default.00 profile though? What if you were legitimately crunching actual bitcoins for furmark for 20min? What are the limits to impose on that?

Lots of ways to skin this cat on a technical level. I didnt mention good vs bad or legalities. but at midnight my time those are some very fast and lose "things to consider" from my desk.

looks like it could get messy quick.

 

[Fizban]

Something like a security check that checks and prevents gaming cards from running mining software/algorithms.

Wont they be able to do something like this just from the type of load the GPU is running? i.e. high core load for long periods of time?

im seriously pissed because i need to upgrade my HD7790 to something new but everything costs atleast 2x as much , that too if they are available.

Why on earth would they NOT want miners to buy their cards?

 

[notb]

'
ASICS mining SHA256 mine bitcoin directly. Other algorithms mine another coin and trade it for bitcoin. Thank the altcoin market. ASICs had the potential to make mining energy efficient. Altcoins ruined it all.

But then again: altcoins have the potential to make cryptocurrencies useful beyond just being a payment method.

Really the only problem with mining is the lack of regulation that would stabilize the environment.
What happens now with the GPU market is really quite disturbing. Few years from now this will be remembered as one of the most idiotic events in PC industry.

Just think how easy it would be to fix this.
If a country would release a state blockchain (which might happen sooner than we think), it would control the supply (mining). It could still outsource it to the people, but not for potentially unlimited payments, but e.g. for a limited tax reduction (i.e. up to 5%). That fixes everything: (almost) no one builds mining rigs in the basement, there are no farms in China etc.

This creates a whole host of other problems and ruins many peoples lives.

Now here you just went a bit too far. Of course a ban on activity would force some people to rethink their household financial strategy, but "ruining lives"?
Controlling legality of drugs, on the other hand, is clearly a proper issue for millions. And I don't think you would use that argument in a discussion about banning heroine or something...

Why on earth would they NOT want miners to buy their cards?

This is a question that appears every now and then on this forum. And we're giving valid answers: expected high percentage of RMA, growth of second hand market, losing loyal gaming clients and so on.
But I don't think we have to answer that any more:
https://www.techpowerup.com/236490/...ossible-warranty-void-on-their-graphics-cards
And don't worry: inno3d is not the last company that will release such a statement. They simply were one of the first to release purpose-built mining cards.

 

[terroralpha]

hell no. AMD's board partners are loving this. brands like Visiontek and XFX have been playing second fiddle to nvidia board partners for a long time now. AMD's GPUs have been lagging behind in what they are supposed to do (play games) and did not sell as well as nvidia cards for that reason. they are going to milk this for as long as possible

what some of the board partners are doing now is manufacturing exclusively to large scale miners. miners pay as much as $300 a card for basic, 4GB RX 580s. cards like the MSI armor and asus "dual" cards. and they buy thousands at a time. the board partners do not have to provide logistics, provide fancy packaging or accessories, share the profits with retailers or distributors and most importantly they don't have to warranty the cards,

they would have to be complete morons to not jump on this bandwagon while everything is going good.

 

[trog100]

Because you need manufacturing plants to make graphic cards?


Thing is: most phones use very similar CPUs (or the same ones).
Samsung is the best example. They use both in-house CPUs (Exynos) and outsourced ARM chips in the same phones.
It's NOT that easy to make more GPUs.

And of course phone demand can vary by how much? 10%? 20%?
Because of mining GPU demand suddenly went up not by 10% but 10 times (or maybe 100?). There's no way they could supply the needed chips - even if they wanted to.

which makes me wonder how i managed to easily obtain six nvidia 1070 cards recently.. theoretically any card suitable for mining should be ether unattainable or priced way higher than what they are..

amd cards do seem to be unobtainable.. nvidia cards are now filling the gap.. assuming the mining craze continues soon no new cards will be available.. when that happens used or flipped cards will appear on ebay at double the new price.. if the mining craze ends it will be impossible to give cards away..

last year i saw what happens when some folks want a new toy and cant get it.. the dji mavic drone.. a fair few ended up on ebay at double the official advertised cost..

what i see is the mining craze continuing for a while and when the nvidia inventory runs out a black market in very expensive graphics cards appearing on ebay..

ether way i see the gpu price going up before it eventually comes back down.. these things are never gonna reach the normal retail channels large mining farms will snap them up by the plane load..

so to anybody wanting a new gpu stop whinging about the price and buy one while you still can..

trog

ps.. based on the same logic as what i have just wafted on about i nipped back to buy another £400 quid evga 1070 card from scan.. too late they are now on pre-order.. i am now bidding on a used one on ebay.. i expect to pay close to what i paid for the new one last week.. ouch

 

[notb]

which makes me wonder how i managed to easily obtain six nvidia 1070 cards recently.. theoretically any card suitable for mining should be ether unattainable or priced way higher than what they are..

That's because mining craze is almost over - at least this wave...
In Europe all cards are easily available now - including 1060 3GB.
Furthermore, the prices are almost like they were in May (maybe +10%), compared to around +50% in July.

amd cards do seem to be unobtainable..

Radeons are back in stores as well.
Example 1: Amazon US (I don't know any of the stores listed):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZQMMHJ/?tag=tec06d-20
Example 2: A major polish store:
https://www.morele.net/karta-grafic...-3xdisplayport-box-gv-rx580gaming-8gd-976900/
14+ units available, 1780 PLN is ~500USD (that includes 23% VAT!).

 

[trog100]

That's because mining craze is almost over - at least this wave...
In Europe all cards are easily available now - including 1060 3GB.
Furthermore, the prices are almost like they were in May (maybe +10%), compared to around +50% in July.


Radeons are back in stores as well.
Example 1: Amazon US (I don't know any of the stores listed):
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XZQMMHJ/?tag=tec06d-20
Example 2: A major polish store:
https://www.morele.net/karta-grafic...-3xdisplayport-box-gv-rx580gaming-8gd-976900/
14+ units available, 1780 PLN is ~500USD (that includes 23% VAT!).

i think the masses are just catching on so "almost over" may be correct.. but only the knowledgeable ( you for example) are aware of this .. the prices here in the UK for anything that isnt on pre-order (not available) are still high..

i just tried buying another evga 1070 in the UK to add to my collection.. at the price i paid last week £400 i cant..

so i think you are basically wrong.. high prices and poor availability will be here for quite some time to come.. but i could be wrong.. he he

1060 3gb cards are available but they are lacking in memory which makes them not a popular choice.. this reflects in the price.. the 6gb variants cost 50% more.. i was gonna buy 8 of them at a saving of £800 compared to 8 X 6gb ones but didnt..

trog

 

[newtekie1]

No, it won't, because the coins constantly switch algos. ASIC-resistant by nature.

All the altcoins are already being mined on ASICs, because GPUs are ASICs(GPUz even has an ASIC quality rating). An ASIC can actually cover a broad range of functions.

But when I said ASIC I really meant mining dedicated ASIC machines. Heck, they could start buying raw GPUs from AMD, and build a compact mining dedicated PCB around it and sell that.

Again: Because of how compute is handled and the variety of algorithms used, it's really not.

Sure it is, there are multiple algorithms being used, but from my understanding only a few actual programs to actually do the work. When those programs are detected running, the GPU is throttled to 25% compute power. Yes, it can turn into a cat an mouse game where the mining program gets changed slightly to work around the block, then the GPU manufacturer releases new drivers to block the new drivers. But we've seen this happen already too, when they started to try to throttle cards during Furmark and programs like it. The first attempt was easy to get around, rename the furmark exe and it would work just fine. But they got smarter, and eventually found a way to detect furmark like behavior and throttle cards whenever it was detected. Though, eventually they just moved on to hardware limiting the power draw of the cards, which eliminated the need to throttle furmark. I'm sure they could do the same with mining behavior if they really wanted to.