Random shut down problem

[shilka]

The screw that fell out is the top middle one

 

[eidairaman1]

The screw that fell out is the top middle one

Ok bread board the system for now

 

[shilka]

Ok bread board the system for now

Sory i dont understand what you mean?
Also how long should it be run on the cardboard box is overnight good enough?

Edit: i just had a look at the case stand offs and there is more than one that is messed up so what i need to do is ask Fractal Design to ship me some new ones

 

[eidairaman1]

Sory i dont understand what you mean?
Also how long should it be run on the cardboard box is overnight good enough?

Edit: i just had a look at the case stand offs and there is more than one that is messed up so what i need to do is ask Fractal Design to ship me some new ones

Bread boarding is running it out of case on non conductive surface. Run it 24 hours out of the case

 

[kibasnowpaw]

If that screw was the problem i feel so stupid i had check it but if it has gotten lost the motherboard might have slid off the stand offs
I need to take the motherboard out and re-mount it it seems

Better turn it off and use the other machine i think i should test the whole system outside the case on the motherboard box

The Chance of that screw being under the Mobo is minimum since it's one of the big screws, and there is not much space under it. I could understand if it was one of the smaller ones, but if you want to be sure, that's a good idea. Also, get your hands on one of those screw sets we talked about.

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And change all the screws and put a red washer on them all; I have done that with all my screws, and besides giving a better grip and protecting the case and making it not ground the component, it could be an excellent idea.

Ok bread board the system for now

It's called "breadboarding." in one word, not two, "As of where to set it up, any cardboard box will do to put your MoBo on."
Not to sound toxic, but you really have to make sure you use the right words, as I said before, or you just confuse people by using the word Vbios when talking about GPU and not just bios since that is more confusing. I don't want to be mean or anything, but I do use a lot of time on what I say to make sure the word I use is correct, or it just comes out wrong, and people would end up just ignoring it just a little pro tip.

 

[Rock N Roll Rebel]

what you can do to is look at your crash dumps using whocrashed it a good program I use all the time

 

[kibasnowpaw]

whocrashed

Yeah, this one. i have never tried it but give it a try.

Resplendence Software - WhoCrashed, automatic crash dump analyzer

WhoCrashed, automatic crash dump analyzer for Windows

www.resplendence.com

 

[shilka]

This is the event viewer report
Also whocrashed says no valid crash dumps have been found on your computer.

They are enabled

Edit: I have moved all the hard drives over to the second PC and i am going to leave it on until friday afternoon when i have to go somewhere
Going to shut it off and back on again when i am back and if the system with the hard drives does not crash after being on for a few days its not the hard drives

Same with the main system leave it on and if it crashes its the motherboard GPU or CPU or the deep cool fan hub
If it does not crash until the hard drives comes back in the only left is the SATA data cables which is some CableMod SATA data cables from 2019

Update it shut down again which leaves the CPU motherboard or GPU the fan hub or its still shorting on the case
Should i switch GPU´s take it out and test it on a box or should i just RMA the damm motherboard?

I also have a GTX 1050 non ti and a working 550 watt PSU i can test with if i throw it on the motherboard box

 

[Rock N Roll Rebel]

the event viewer shows that the system lost power before it can make a crash dump file it defiantly looks like a short I hope it didn't damage any thing what you can do is test all your parts in the other pc good luck
another thing is I hope that that screw didn't scrape one of the tracers and make it not work properly

 

[shilka]

the event viewer shows that the system lost power before it can make a crash dump file it defiantly looks like a short I hope it didn't damage any thing what you can do is test all your parts in the other pc good luck
another thing is I hope that that screw didn't scrape one of the tracers and make it not work properly

It was sitting between the top of the motherboard and the case it was not actually jammed in it just looked that way because it was dark and i was tired so what i think happen is it just fell out and landed on the edge on the motherboard

There is no damage that i can see in that area
I have not had any sleep yet its 08.42 and i have been too stressed out to sleep

Its either shorting on the case despite being lined up on the stand offs and everything looking like it should and it has not been moved since last year
Or its the GPU or motherboard thats on its last leg and i am starting to lean towards the GPU

I need to talk to my retailers and my insurance before i do anything more i already need to RMA one part the new RAM is probably messed up too and needs an RMA and i dont want to do more testing that can damage the RAM before i have heard what they have to say

One of the RAM slots on the motherboard or the GPU could have been damaged by the PSU and i am still sure that the old PSU has a problem
I can narrow it down by taking it out of the case and seeing what happens if it stops its shorting on the case

If it does not its either the motherboard CPU or GPU and the GPU is the more likely of the two
I have a GTX 1050 non Ti i dont care about i can test with and if it still crashes its the motherboard or the CPU

If its the CPU i dont think it would even post and if it did it would BSOD left right and center before shutting down
Its not the hard drives i have ruled those out i moved them to the second PC which i am on now and it has not shut down while the first PC has even with the hard drives removed

Unless its that damm Deepcool PWM fan hub thats SATA powerd

 

[Rock N Roll Rebel]

It's not the HDDs that would have made the PC lag and then BOSD, not random shutdowns,


It could be the cablemod to the PSU that killed the port, but i don't count on it.


It's not the Fix Error code 0xC0000035 in Event Viewer i did some research on that to make sure that code comes primarily because of an identical domain security identifier (SID) being detected. But it can also be because of the setup.ETL file, you just Rename this file: %windir%\panther\setup.etl to setup.old and reboot. To fix it most of the time.


Reinstalling the OS Doesn't help. He has done that three times with no luck. Also, he knows that he only needs one HDD to have the bootloader on the primary HDD and has nothing to do with the main problem.


It is rarely the outlet, and that would affect more than the PC itself.


Cleaning the Sata cable that one I had never heard of before and has never been a problem i had or heard of before, maybe.


Not a thing. More like that, you had not plugged it all the way in and have made some bad connection or corrosion unless your pc is one big dust bunny. I never had that happen before and never heard it happen before. So I wouldn't count on it.

well I figured out why my pc did that in the past on my corsair PSU the cables are rill stiff and my HDDs are close together in an HDD cage so there was a lot of tension on the SATA power plugs and one came lose enough over time to cause problem's but now all ok for a long time just a freakish thing lol

It was sitting between the top of the motherboard and the case it was not actually jammed in it just looked that way because it was dark and i was tired so what i think happen is it just fell out and landed on the edge on the motherboard

There is no damage that i can see in that area
I have not had any sleep yet its 08.42 and i have been too stressed out to sleep

Its either shorting on the case despite being lined up on the stand offs and everything looking like it should and it has not been moved since last year
Or its the GPU or motherboard thats on its last leg and i am starting to lean towards the GPU

I need to talk to my retailers and my insurance before i do anything more i already need to RMA one part the new RAM is probably messed up too and needs an RMA and i dont want to do more testing that can damage the RAM before i have heard what they have to say

One of the RAM slots on the motherboard or the GPU could have been damaged by the PSU and i am still sure that the old PSU has a problem
I can narrow it down by taking it out of the case and seeing what happens if it stops its shorting on the case

If it does not its either the motherboard CPU or GPU and the GPU is the more likely of the two
I have a GTX 1050 non Ti i dont care about i can test with and if it still crashes its the motherboard or the CPU

If its the CPU i dont think it would even post and if it did it would BSOD left right and center before shutting down
Its not the hard drives i have ruled those out i moved them to the second PC which i am on now and it has not shut down while the first PC has even with the hard drives removed

Unless its that damm Deepcool PWM fan hub thats SATA powerd

I had a CPU go bad it showed a lot of wea loggers in the event viewer if you don't have any wea loggers in there your CPU is probably fine

 

[shilka]

The hard drives are fine by the way no damage on any of them and all the data is still there well except the last HDD this motherboard only has 6x SATA ports and it has a SATA SSD in it which means there is only ports for 5 hard drives so i cant check the last one

They passed all tests so screw the main PC i dont care about that i have this second one
The main PC has always been a disaster which is why the second PC has been upgraded so much its for just this case when the cursed one stops working

Maybe i should buy a HBA card and move that SATA SSD to that instead so i can have all 6 hard drives in this PC

well I figured out why my pc did that in the past on my corsair PSU the cables are rill stiff and my HDDs are close together in an HDD cage so there was a lot of tension on the SATA power plugs and one came lose enough over time to cause problem's but now all ok for a long time just a freakish thing lol


I had a CPU go bad it showed a lot of wea loggers in the event viewer if you don't have any wea loggers in there your CPU is probably fine

I found one only one of those

 

[Rock N Roll Rebel]

The hard drives are fine by the way no damage on any of them and all the data is still there well except the last HDD this motherboard only has 6x SATA ports and it has a SATA SSD in it which means there is only ports for 5 hard drives so i cant check the last one

They passed all tests so screw the main PC i dont care about that i have this second one
The main PC has always been a disaster which is why the second PC has been upgraded so much its for just this case when the cursed one stops working

Maybe i should buy a HBA card and move that SATA SSD to that instead so i can have all 6 hard drives in this PC


I found one only one of those

CPU is probably fine if it was going bad there would be a bunch of them
get some sleep you will feel better

 

[Mussels]

OP: please fill out your system specs and change the dropdown to yes, so we dont have to hunt for specs on earlier pages

https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/account/specs

When w1zz tested 6800 series cards, he found some did large, brief power spikes (20ms or so)
MSI Radeon RX 6800 XT Gaming X Trio Review - Power Consumption | TechPowerUp

This could tie into it being a PSU issue, as theorised a few pages back

Hardware issues, especially PSU related ones can give almost random seeming BSOD and error codes, since different hardware can error differently every time.


"My system is a Ryzen 7 3700x with a Noctua NH-D15S 16 GB of 3600 MHz CL 18 RAM"
My 3700x system would crash to black screen randomly at low load scenarios, if the ram was unstable. 3600Mhz is *far* above stock for one of these CPU's, and you should test it at much lower speeds to rule it out. (2400Mhz for a few days, is a stupidly easy thing to test)

 

[shilka]

3600 MHz has been stable and working for years when it started to shut down and the RAM got damaged
The replacement kit also worked fine for a while

Every time the system shuts down there is a risk of damage to the RAM
Also the crashes happen at ilde when i am not even using the machine

I know the old PSU was bad my theory is it has damaged my motherboard CPU or GPU or the motherboard has somehow moved off the stand offs
Also the old RAM was CL 16 the new RAM is CL 18 so they should be easier to run not harder

Also i have an RX 6800 not the RX 6800 XT the two are not the same card
The system specs has been filled in and the drop down menu is now on if you still cant see it i dont know what is wrong

I dont get any BSOD its a hard shut down and there is less and less time between them now which points to something dying or shorting

Edit: the retailer i bought the GPU from said to send it in they offered to test it for free and if there is nothing wrong with it i just get it back without having to pay anything
Now i need to talk with the motherboard retailer

 

[Mussels]

3600 MHz has been stable and working for years when it started to shut down and the RAM got damaged
The replacement kit also worked fine for a while

Every time the system shuts down there is a risk of damage to the RAM
Also the crashes happen at ilde when i am not even using the machine

I know the old PSU was bad my theory is it has damaged my motherboard CPU or GPU or the motherboard has somehow moved off the stand offs
Also the old RAM was CL 16 the new RAM is CL 18 so they should be easier to run not harder

Also i have an RX 6800 not the RX 6800 XT the two are not the same card
The system specs has been filled in and the drop down menu is now on if you still cant see it i dont know what is wrong

I dont get any BSOD its a hard shut down and there is less and less time between them now which points to something dying or shorting

Edit: the retailer i bought the GPU from said to send it in they offered to test it for free and if there is nothing wrong with it i just get it back without having to pay anything
Now i need to talk with the motherboard retailer

I thought my RAM was bad too, until i got a different CPU.
Being able to test between four ryzen AM4 systems of different chipsets and generations back then helped me figure it all out, which was simply: you can stress test your overclocked Zen2 all day long and be stable, but the f*cker can just crash at idle. Raising my SoC voltage solved it for me, after months of maybe one crash a week, always at low load (youtube or facebook, usually)

Theres no guarantees that is your issue, but its knowledge worth having.

This image is from Zen 1, but it still tells the story people forget: You add more ranks, you get lower stable max clocks. The numbers went up each gen with ryzen, but if you're running 4 or 8 ranks on Zen 2, you're not going to get 3600 without minor tweaking.

 

[shilka]

What i am going to do is leave the PC as it is i am not going to touch it i wont spend any more time on it before next week
On tuesday kibasnowpaw is going to show up and help me

What we are going to do is pack up the RX 6800 the RMA was accepted by the retailer i bought it from and the testing and shipping is free
Is there is something wrong with the GPU they will replace it and if it works i will get it back at no cost

Next we are going to test the motherboard on its box with the GTX 1050 and if it still crashes the last step is to turn off D.O.C.P aka XMP
Fractal Design has just sent me an email saying i will get a bag of new motherboard stands offs and screws because the ones i have now cant hold the screws in and thats how and why that screw fell out and landed on the motherboard

That should rule out GPU the RAM and the motherboard shorting
If it still crashes despite all that its the CPU or motherboard and in the case of the former my insurance company said they would cover that

The motherboard can be sent to RMA by the retailer i bought it from
One of retailers said it sound like the chipset got messed up by a power surge which might have taken out the RAM as well if its not just a stupid short

Edit: i have been sitting on the second PC for hours on end so i know that PC works and i have just turned it off and moved it over to my desk where the main PC was if this PC shuts off its the power outlet but since the monitor dont turn off with the PC i cant see how it could be the power outlet

 

[Mussels]

What i am going to do is leave the PC as it is i am not going to touch it i wont spend any more time on it before next week
On tuesday kibasnowpaw is going to show up and help me

What we are going to do is pack up the RX 6800 the RMA was accepted by the retailer i bought it from and the testing and shipping is free
Is there is something wrong with the GPU they will replace it and if it works i will get it back at no cost

Next we are going to test the motherboard on its box with the GTX 1050 and if it still crashes the last step is to turn off D.O.C.P aka XMP
Fractal Design has just sent me an email saying i will get a bag of new motherboard stands offs and screws because the ones i have now cant hold the screws in and thats how and why that screw fell out and landed on the motherboard

That should rule out GPU the RAM and the motherboard shorting
If it still crashes despite all that its the CPU or motherboard and in the case of the former my insurance company said they would cover that

The motherboard can be sent to RMA by the retailer i bought it from
One of retailers said it sound like the chipset got messed up by a power surge which might have taken out the RAM as well if its not just a stupid short

Edit: i have been sitting on the second PC for hours on end so i know that PC works and i have just turned it off and moved it over to my desk where the main PC was if this PC shuts off its the power outlet but since the monitor dont turn off with the PC i cant see how it could be the power outlet

Theres two sizes to standoffs/screws, that sounds like you used the smaller screws in the larger thread standoffs

In my head, i always refer to them as HDD and CD screws, as thats where i first learned of them

Edit: Over the years i've seen many people mix-and-match standoffs between cases, not realising they used two different sizes. This results in loose screws that fall out, or large thread ones jammed in that let the motherboard wobble, and often result in the standoff being removed from the board along with the screw (which can bend/flex/break the board on the way out)

 

[kibasnowpaw]

Theres two sizes to standoffs/screws, that sounds like you used the smaller screws in the larger thread standoffs
View attachment 245281

In my head, i always refer to them as HDD and CD screws, as thats where i first learned of them

Never use the first one. Most mobo stand-off break from doing so even if it feels like it fits. The second one is wrong too.



The top right one is for the motherboard if you have not killed the stand-off thread.

saying i will get a bag of new motherboard stands offs and screws

Should I take my pc screw set with me so we can use those red washers, so we are sure everything is tight and not going to fall out.

 

[ThrashZone]

Theres two sizes to standoffs/screws, that sounds like you used the smaller screws in the larger thread standoffs
View attachment 245281

In my head, i always refer to them as HDD and CD screws, as thats where i first learned of them

Hi,
Stand offs and screws come with the case
I've never gotten two different screws for them, stand off were always preinstalled and screws come in sealed bag.

 

[kibasnowpaw]

Hi,
Stand offs and screws come with the case
I've never gotten two different screws for them, stand off were always preinstalled and screws come in sealed bag.

There is only one thread size. It’s only on old cases that
use the other. And they always come with the case. Using the big screw thread on the motherboard will jam or make the threaded hole bigger in the stand-off and make it lose so it will come off with the motherboard when trying to screw it off.

 

[shilka]

Its the stand off´s and screws that came with the case and its the right ones its just that some of them are messed up
The top left hole for the motherboard also has a screwed up stand off so there is only the top right screw holding the motherboard in the case

The motherboard might be shorting i cant know for sure until there is another pair of eyes here on tuesday

Thats why i said i dont want to touch it i have put the case on the side and we are going to look at it tuesday
Maybe the new stand off´s from Fractal will show up before

The GPU will be sent to the retailer i bought it from they said i had gone above and beyond what most others would have done trying to find the problem and they would take a look at it for free
The other one was not helpful other than try and take it out and put it on the cardboard box

Edit: just took the side panel off to have a look and not taking anything out and the motherboard does not move up or down or side to side its still on perfectly on the case stand off´s its just hangs a bit lose off the two that cant hold screws anymore

Unless its shorting because its NOT making contact on the stand off´s i cant see why it would be shorting but i am going to take it out anyway on tuesday because Fractal sent me a bag of new stand off´s and screws

 

[shilka]

Another update we have take the Asus X570 Strix-E motherboard out of the case and put it on its box and installed the GTX 1050 in that motherboard
The Radeon RX6800 has been installed in kibasnowpaw´s old X79 machine and he will be testing the GPU

Both systems will be left on for a few days and if the problems stops its either shorting on the case or its the 2,5 gigabit LAN port on the Asus X570 Strix-E or one of the USB ports
Will return with more updates if something happens

Edit: just to be safe i am going to throw out the old Deepcool fan hub and use the Define 7 XL built in fan hub just with PWM splitters

 

[shilka]

Well i think we found the problem all of the Define 7 XL stand off´s are FUBAR so any screw that goes into them is lose and the whole motherboard and everything hooked up was only weeks away from crashing to the floor of the case it was that lose so thats why it was shorting

We installed the new stand off´s i got from Fractal Design today and threw all of the old ones in my screw box in their own compartment so i dont re-use them
I am going to let the motherboard sit on its box for a little while longer just to be sure but so far it has not shut down nor has the GPU in the X79 machine it all works fine

We are going to install the motherboard and GPU back in the case next week and this time we are going to make sure everything is all the way in and sitting like it should
The old PSU is still going to Seasonic for RMA

The stand off´s have been a problem from day one we never installed the top left screw because it would not remain in the stand off
Should have replaced them much sooner but forgot all about it

And last a replacement 32 GB G Skill TridentZ Neo 3600 MHz CL 16 kit has been ordered by the retailer i bought it from and will show up next week as well which is nice since 16 GB was a bit on the small side

 

[kibasnowpaw]

Just to update you, so you are not going to contradict yourself. The thread on the case was not a problem, and the standoff was tightened to the case. But the thread in the standoff where you screw the motherboard to the case was fucked, so the HDD vibrations make the screws loosen over time. A new standoff with a washer on them has been replaced, so they are tight and don’t move.