[RUMOR] GTX 2080 to be reassuringly expensive?

[vega22]

Are you drunk, trolling, or serious? Either way, it makes no sense. The only reason Nvidia is ahead of the game right now is exactly because they can provide 1080's performance level at a 180w TDP budget. And competitors who cannot get that efficient release a Vega that caps at 300W for similar perf. Yeah, please, give me that mobile part, thanks! Titan is indeed the flagship, and also the nonsensical product in the Geforce line up, with its ever changing position in the market. It fundamentally has NO place in Nvidia's normal product stack, it serves as a 'can do' product, GV100 being the perfect example and proof of that. The full Gx100 die simply represents the 'concept/prototype car' for each gen. It is a product always looking for a market, preferably a new one. When Titan launched, that was the pro user that also did some gaming and wanted both but didn't need Quadro/Tesla. As many mindless idiot gamers bought Titans, and then felt 'ripped off' because a 780 followed suit (lol!) the next couple of Titans lost their compute and went for the raw gaming performance. Now, GV100 is a massive boost in deep learning, again, because the top end of the marketplace is asking for it, and suddenly we won't see much of Volta / Titan V in the gaming space.

Its not high price that makes it a high perf part, its the high perf that does that. And any combination with high efficiency is bonus.

Another statement then, to wipe all arguments about pricing off the table: consider inflation, and then look at prices again from the chart above. GPUs (MSRP that is) have become progressively cheaper.

lack of competition doesn't change how i define the high end parts, or the flag ship. you talk about high perf as if that makes it high end...today's cheap parts offer more performance than the high end from a few generation back so does that make them high end or mean that what was high end is no longer the case as it has less performance today?

kepler was where nv started to trick people into paying high end money for mid ranged parts. the titan was born from that lacklustre time. they had no need to release a real high end card so they pimped what should of been the 680ti as the titan and the marketing team spun it as a prosumer product. it tricked some into buying it while others bought into the mindset that is was worth while.

im not disputing that nvidia have great efficiency from their last couple of generation of cards but to call anything but the high end cards as high end is foolish. it is like claiming that the 3 pot, twin turbo 900cc engines are high end as they have the same (or better) power to weight ratio as a v8 :|

high end parts have high end, cooling and power, requirements to give the highest performance available. mid ranged parts have mid ranged requirements and can give great performance, but that does not make it high end.

 

[rtwjunkie]

@vega22 you are confusing the argument and definition. A high end card is only a high end card within its own family/generation. My 980Ti was a high-end Maxwell. Period. Performance will always increase and is relative to generation. That is why the 1070 in the Pascal line beats it, and the 10606gb comes within 10%.

That doesn’t mean the 1060 is now high-end. No, it is firmly mid-tier in a new generation that almost beats a flagship from earlier. It’s apples and oranges.

 

[Vayra86]

lack of competition doesn't change how i define the high end parts, or the flag ship. you talk about high perf as if that makes it high end...today's cheap parts offer more performance than the high end from a few generation back so does that make them high end or mean that what was high end is no longer the case as it has less performance today?

kepler was where nv started to trick people into paying high end money for mid ranged parts. the titan was born from that lacklustre time. they had no need to release a real high end card so they pimped what should of been the 680ti as the titan and the marketing team spun it as a prosumer product. it tricked some into buying it while others bought into the mindset that is was worth while.

im not disputing that nvidia have great efficiency from their last couple of generation of cards but to call anything but the high end cards as high end is foolish. it is like claiming that the 3 pot, twin turbo 900cc engines are high end as they have the same (or better) power to weight ratio as a v8 :|

high end parts have high end, cooling and power, requirements to give the highest performance available. mid ranged parts have mid ranged requirements and can give great performance, but that does not make it high end.

Ehh no. Read carefully my post because you're missing the essence of it. What was high end once, still is high end today. The product hasn't changed, only its *relative performance* changes. This is normal in PC technology as we progress towards ever faster parts.

Therefore, performance relative to everything else *of the same generation* is what determines high end or mid range. Not price. Not what comes after or before it. Just the relative performance to what is out at the same time. Its the law of this market; the only thing that really matters is how much performance you can provide at each price point at each different point in time. That is how, and why you sell more GPUs than the others.

Your train of thought fails at the point where you state 'high end parts have high end cooling and power, requirements to give the highest performance available'. But that is not how it works. Nvidia's product stack still has roughly the same TDP budgets for each segment - Titan was 250W and still is today. x80 is 180-220w and still is today. Also, each of them has the cooling that is sufficient for that TDP budget. The only reason to say what you say, is when Fermi is your base number because it was ridiculously hot, loud and power hungry. Today we have a Vega that's 'doing a Fermi'... It has no bearing on what is high end or not, its just a characteristic of the architecture and how far it's been pushed. What really happens today in chip design is that you work with a defined TDP budget and you cram as much performance in there as you can. This is because chips are marketed for different purposes, form factors, performance levels and cooling solutions. It prevents waste and ensures happy customers because the GPU won't overheat in its typical use case.

You can define things however you want but your definition is off from reality and the marketplace.

 

[Steevo]

30% actual performance improvement for 50% more money. So much for economy of scale and lower cost of production, since they have fucked the consumer before.

 

[Vario]

A lot of arguing over number branding.
Nvidia and AMD need to lock the mining out in the hardware and sell mining specific cards or the prices on these things will be 2x what we currently think of as expensive.

 

[EarthDog]

So much logic fail... have fun guys.

 

[cucker tarlson]

There needs to be a more gradual classification than just high-end and mid-range. I think I've seen ppl label 1080Ti as high end, 1080 and 1070Ti/1070 as enthusiast, mid-range is 1060.

 

[RichF]

Nvidia and AMD need to lock the mining out in the hardware and sell mining specific cards or the prices on these things

Why? Corporations aren't charities which means their only purpose is to get as much money out of buyers as possible. That means minimizing risk as much as possible, while maximizing reward.

AMD already has chips going to consoles so it has even less of an incentive to care about gaming card availability. Gamers, as long as the current crypto scenario exists, will only get whatever Vega and Polaris cards don't sell to miners. The scraps.

Even if we want to pretend for a moment that AMD is a person (something people constantly do with corporations, even though it's foolish), where loyalty matters, it could be said, from that point of view, that AMD is irritated with gamers for buying so much Nvidia hardware, even at times when AMD's cards represented an equivalent value. But, since corporations are not people, it's moot. Or, we can salvage this line of thinking somewhat by asking ourselves which customer is the most loyal. Put more clearly, which buyer is the surer bet?

Nvidia seems to be doing well enough, in terms of selling its cards, too — thanks to mining. The only way there is a strong incentive to make gaming-only cards is if there is excess production capacity, and that includes parts that are currently in shortage like GDDR5 and HBM2. Selling to miners is a surer bet right now than selling to gamers is. Companies will choose the sure bet every time.

It also comes down to how much profit the companies will make from enabling miners to buy/use all of their significant product line that could otherwise be used for gaming, in terms of the supposedly guaranteed eventual bursting of the crypto bubble (or, at least strong slowing). As long as there are enough gaming buyers to pick up the slack (and there will be, in particular due to fear of burned-out cards in the used market) it gives both companies no incentive to cut miners out of product lines.

I told people in a different forum, when they were having a "let's condemn Vega and laugh at AMD" party that miners were going to buy all of the Vega supply so the card could be considered a success. It's not a success for gaming efficiency but it is a success for mining efficiency. Accident?

And finally, if AMD were to implement any sort of anti-mining tech, guess what the updated Gameworks would focus on leveraging? The compute portion that AMD gimped. We can thank gamers for enabling black box tech to pass muster in the market, in terms of sales.

 

[the54thvoid]

Classification as determined by me.

Budget--------------------Mainstream-------------------Performance---------------------Enthusiast--------------------Flagship-------------------Prosumer

Affordable to x% (pre mining top, post mining below)

95%--------------------------75%-------------------------------50%------------------------------30%------------------------15%--------------------------5%
95%--------------------------50%-------------------------------30%------------------------------15% ------------------------5%--------------------------<5%

Model Type

1050(ti)--------------------1060-----------------------------1070(ti)----------------------------1080 ---------------------1080ti------------------Titan P (Titan V)

This is law of the 54thvoid

When discussing previous flagships (they are no longer flagships) they are labelled, LAST GENERATION. All last gen segments backtrack a column at least.

 

[EarthDog]

There needs to be a more gradual classification than just high-end and mid-range. I think I've seen ppl label 1080Ti as high end, 1080 and 1070Ti/1070 as enthusiast, mid-range is 1060.

.............and budget. We can add more grey area if we want, but it seems everyone has an opinion and barometer already.

 

[cucker tarlson]

.............and budget. We can add more grey area if we want, but it seems everyone has an opinion and barometer already.

I think resolution would be my #1 indicator.
If a card is capable of running new games at 2560x1440/90 fps or 3440x1440/+60 fps with ultra or very high settings , it is definitely a huge mistunderstanding to call it mid range.

 

[CrAsHnBuRnXp]

Was just on Amazon and there were "important changes in my cart" and it was for the Asus Strix 1080Ti. They had one for $725 and it increased to $1,035!

 

[dorsetknob]

$725 and it increased to $1,035!

A modest /slight increase in price Does that include Taxes

 

[neatfeatguy]

I bought a brand new sealed in box GTX295 from a member on here years ago for like $100. It was a steal. Also a BFG. I still have it. Might put it up on display when I get my new house and my man cave

BFG was my go to brand. Sad that they went out of business.

I liked BFG, too. Sucked when they closed doors though.....

I still have a fully functional GTX 280 from BFG (got the box and all) and a GTX 285 (sent to me as replacement from a RMA for a 280 that had the fan die) that was faulty with the stock 285 BIOS (even voltage/clock adjustments the card would constantly crash). Literally the day after I got the 285 replacement, BFG stopped taking RMAs so I couldn't return it. I ended up flashing my good 280's BIOS on it and she functions as a GTX 280 now - ran the two cards in SLI for about 2 years. The flashed 285 still worked last I tried it a couple years ago...

As for the possibility of GPU prices going through the roof on the next iteration of cards coming down the pipe, looks like my GTX 980 Ti cards will have to hold out a good while longer. I was on the fence when dropping $620 on my first one and then about $500 on the second one once Nvidia stopped churning them out and started pushing out the 10xx models.

 

[EarthDog]

I think resolution would be my #1 indicator.
If a card is capable of running new games at 2560x1440/90 fps or 3440x1440/+60 fps with ultra or very high settings , it is definitely a huge mistunderstanding to call it mid range.

Yeah, you can slice this up in a number of ways.

My entire point is, no matter which way you slice it, the 1080 is certainly a 'high end card' contrary to, well, I guess one person's belief.

 

[Steevo]

Yeah, you can slice this up in a number of ways.

My entire point is, no matter which way you slice it, the 1080 is certainly a 'high end card' contrary to, well, I guess one person's belief.

We used to get 50-100% more performance for the same dollar as the prior generation release price. Now we might get 15-20% for the same price, and then later the actual full fat core is released for a price premium at 25-30% faster than prior generation, and for 200% price increase. I think 4K and mining will break a lot of gamers, they will buy consoles and stop chasing the rabbit down the hole, the CPU performance increase has been 2-5% from big blue for a few years now, with different amounts of cores, cache, and features to force cyclic upgrades, but without the sheer GPU compute power all the CPU power does nothing, add on the cherry on top of high DRAM pricing....

I'm still playing TW3 on my heavily overclocked 7970 and 6 core Thuban and I maintain 30-60FPS and it looks great, with the advancements in Xbox, I am wondering if I will upgrade or just go to the console.

 

[Fluffmeister]

Yeah look at the 7970 review, thanks to the node shrink it crushed (giggles) the aging GTX 580:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7970/32.html

 

[Vlada011]

Price of GTX2080 not depend from NVIDIA.
Depend how much customers are ready to pay.
Price will go up to 10.000$ if customers continue to buy.

Solution for that is in customers hand, reliable, working many times proven solution.
Embargo on shoping NVIDIA products 2 years. If they don't want to make cards, never mind left them 1-2 years more to decide what they want, bankrupt or normal profit.

Normal beings would be capable to make something like that because that would help their budget.
But humans not, they have different characteristics and their budget will suffer because of that.
Many times customers associations drop price of different products on less than half price.

But price of hardware is directly connected with profile of customers.
Cars can't be expensive every year for 25%. Because people who plan to buy Mercedes would bought something else.
These kind of news are checking reaction of customers... They intentionaly say 1500 because customers could say Huuh we had luck it's 1100$ reference.
And reaction is completely different than if they show up with 1100$ price without rumors about expensive GPUs.

Than custom model show up for 1250$, but suddenly after few weeks people start to notice that reference somehow cost more, and people pay 1300$ with same mood like they cost 1100$. They pay 1300$ and in their heads is advertised price 1100$.
We seen that with GTX1080, customers celebrate 599$ price, later they paid 800$ for reference model.
With such customers I would ask 2000$ and 10.000$ and until I notice 20% less selling.

But if cards show up and only 20% of planned customers bought them price will drop first on 700$ and later on 500$ and customers could buy two for price of one.
They will not throw in garbage hardware 1001%. Or they could if they want, that's not our problem, people could say No more than 700$ high end.
We don't care nothing. That politic work every time.

 

[vega22]

You can define things however you want but your definition is off from reality and the marketplace.

as can you, but a mid ranged part only needs mid ranged cooling and has lower power draw than the high end.

you seem to flip flop between high end parts and high performance while i believe the 2 are not the same.

to me the 1080 is a high performance enthusiast part while the 1070 would be an entry level enthusiast one, for eg. the 1080ti is the high end part in the geforce line up.

it is not about tdp segments but where they land within the whole for their gen. those with the highest power draw have the highest cooling requirements and offer the highest performance.

that is what makes it the pinnacle, the high end part for it's generation.

Yeah, you can slice this up in a number of ways.

My entire point is, no matter which way you slice it, the 1080 is certainly a 'high end card' contrary to, well, I guess one person's belief.

higher end, but not the high end. "high end card" is singular, ie the top of the tree while everyone knows the ti has it beat hands down :|

 

[Vlada011]

On me this news not influence at all... I will pay max 700-800$, if that mean I need to buy TITAN X Pascal when new premium models show up and price drop, not newest model I have no problem with that at all.

How GTX1080 could be high end card when that's 160-170W power consumption and we have 3 models with more CUDA, for class better chip, 40% stronger chip.
Until last years that was mid range and price was 300-350$. She is advertised for 599$ and customers were happy but they sold for up to 800$.
GTX1080 is not high end model. I think they have 3-4 chips, GTX1080 is in middle.
High end is only strongest chip from architecture. GK110 was high end, GK104 not. GTX1080 is successor of GK104 Kepler and GM204 (GTX970/980).
GTX1080 is even bellow GTX780, GTX780 was crippled high end chip. Kepler didn't had better chip from GTX780, but Pascal have better chip than GTX1080.

 

[dyonoctis]

Well, 12nm isn't going to make a huge gap anyway, GDDR6 was the thing to get really excited about, but what I've seen so far from HBM, and what I've read about GDDR6, lead me to believe that it would be more beneficial to power comssumption rather than sheer speed. (I'm basing this statement on vega and titan V numbers). So waiting with a 16nm gpu until the 7nm doesn't seems a bad idea.

 

[EarthDog]

higher end, but not the high end. "high end card" is singular, ie the top of the tree while everyone knows the ti has it beat hands down :|

Singlular does not mean its the 'top of the tree'. The 1080ti is a high end card as well. The flagship. You can have multiple cards in the same category.

High end, to me, certainly relates to performance. Why does a high end card have to use a lot of power??? Are you stuck in an AMD mindset or something ??? So what if it uses the middle GP104 die?

I guess in the end, it depends on how one defines it. But outside of power use, which I really discard as a reason myself, there is nothing midrange about it.

 

[cdawall]

Not sure where you get that idea from. The x70 is usually a mere 10% below the x80 in performance and can almost match it with an OC versus stock. It is also a slightly cut-down version of the full x80 SKU. So its literally the same chip with a small bite taken out, to make it accessible at a much lower price point. Makes absolutely no sense at all to shove that in an entirely different segment.

x60 / x60ti has always been the midrange indicator with x50 as its budget counterpart.

There hasn't been a 60ti for a long time and when there was a 60ti we didn't really have the massive laundry list of GPU's per generation as we do now. I don't even class the 80 as high end. 970/980 were mainstream 980Ti was a high end part. Sales volume should match with that and it does. The 970 especially, I mean it was touted as the "value" card. That label should say something.

 

[eidairaman1]

@vega22 you are confusing the argument and definition. A high end card is only a high end card within its own family/generation. My 980Ti was a high-end Maxwell. Period. Performance will always increase and is relative to generation. That is why the 1070 in the Pascal line beats it, and the 10606gb comes within 10%.

That doesn’t mean the 1060 is now high-end. No, it is firmly mid-tier in a new generation that almost beats a flagship from earlier. It’s apples and oranges.

Just like how s 290X VaporX or Lightning or XFX top Tier Part was.

Mine is a 290VaporX, it's stable today and will be almost 4 years old in my rig.

 

[las]

Unlike the Riva TNT, the GTX 1080 is the in same gen as the 1080ti. And following your reasoning the 1080TI isn't even high end anymore since the Titan V is faster in gaming.

It might be same gen, but there's a big difference in chip size. 1080 Ti is much faster. If you call the 1080 for high-end the 1080 Ti should be entuisiast class. What do you call Titan V then?

1080 is still a good card, but I wouldn't call it high end. Then 1070 and 980 Ti would be high end too.

The price and performance of a GTX 1080 (or recent 1070ti) is a mid range product for you?

Upper mid-end, yes.

1080 Ti / Titan Xp is high-end.
Titan V is entusiast.

Everything below 1060 is low-end.