Tuesday, September 20th 2011

Gigabyte Responds to MSI's Bluff Call

A little earlier this month, MSI's PR team dished out a presentation in which they claimed that Gigabyte was misleading buyers into thinking that as many as 40 of its recently-launched motherboards were "Ready for Native PCIe Gen.3". MSI tried to make its argument plausible by explaining what exactly goes into making a Gen 3-ready motherboard. The presentation caused quite some drama in the comments. Gigabyte responded with a presentation of its own, in which it counter-claimed that those making the accusations ignored some key details. Details such as "what if the Ivy Bridge CPU is wired to the first PCIe slot (lane switches won't matter)?"
In its short presentation with no more than 5 slides, Gigabyte tried to provide an explanation to its claim that most of its new motherboards are Gen 3-ready. The presentation begins with a diplomatic-sounding message on what is the agenda of the presentation, followed by a disclaimer that three of its recently-launched boards, Z68X-UD7-B3 & P67A-UD7/P67A-UD7-B3, lack Gen 3 readiness. This could be because those boards make use of a Gen 2 NVIDIA nForce 200 bridge chip, even the first PCI-E x16 slot is wired to that chip.

The next slide looks to form the key component of Gigabyte's rebuttal, that in motherboards with just one PCI-E x16 slot, there is no switching circuitry between the CPU's PCI-E root-complex and the slots, and so PCI-E Gen 3 will work.

The following slides explain that in motherboards with more than one PCI-Express x16 slot wired to the CPU, a Gen 3 switch redirects the unused x8 PCIe lanes from the
second slot to the first card slot for full x16 PCIe graphics bandwidth. But then MSI already established that barring the G1.Sniper 2, none of Gigabyte's boards with more than one PCI-E x16 slot has Gen 3 switches.

Likewise, it explained in the following slides about how Gen 3 switches handle cases in which more than one graphics card is wired to the CPU. Again we'd like to mention that barring the G1.Sniper 2, none of Gigabyte's 40 "Ready for Native PCIe Gen.3" have Gen 3 switches.

The last slide, however, successfully rebuts MSI's argument. Even in motherboards with Gen 2 switches, a Gen 3 graphics card can run in Gen 3 mode, on the first slot, albeit at electrical x8 data rate. Sure, it's not going to give you PCI-Express 3.0 x16, and sure, it's going to only work for one graphics card, but it adequately validates Gigabyte's "Ready for Native PCIe Gen.3" claim from a purely logical point of view.

Now that Gigabyte entered the debate, the onus on Gigabyte will now be to also clarify that apart from the switching argument, all its "Ready for Native PCIe Gen.3" have Gen 3-compliant electrical components, which MSI claimed Gigabyte's boards lack in this slide.
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64 Comments on Gigabyte Responds to MSI's Bluff Call

#51
EarthDog
Meh... I look past all the BS. Im more interested in the right technology (facts) for my needs than to, what I feel is actually childish BS, boycot a company b/c of this. Its business, love it or hate it I wouldnt limit my choices because of it. This isnt crossing a moral or ethical line to me. ;)
Posted on Reply
#52
fullhd99
Gigabyte Fail tried to cover up
Good job MSI to embarrass gigabyte
Next waiting Asus confirmation
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#53
DannibusX
Slightly off topic. This is the closest poll I have ever seen on TPU.
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#54
Hayder_Master
Lol, still remember when gigabyte force asus about power saving, it was big troll, now the magic turn on gigabyte from MSI.
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#55
Bundy
I agree with TMM in that it is bad for companies to air their dirty laundry. BUT it is great for the consumer because it will drive them all to be a little more careful about the wording of their next product.

As for the physical issue - BS about nothing. By the time there is a card sold that needs more bandwidth than PCE-E 3.0 x8, the mobo owners will have moved on anyway.
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#56
[H]@RD5TUFF
cool story bro, but you have proven to be full of it one to many times, die in a fire gigabyte.
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#57
Jegergrim
fullhd99Gigabyte Fail tried to cover up
Good job MSI to embarrass gigabyte
Next waiting Asus confirmation
Agreed, I think public standoff is really important, no matter the manner it's done in. I generally love to get confirmation on any "new tech". In this case, MSI probably saved alot of people from investing in the wrong thing..
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#58
ViperXTR
El_MayoWhat are the extra features?
Optimized signaling afaik, and more power delivered through the PCI-E slot (up to 300W? vs 150W of PCi-E 2.0) but current cards barely take advantage of the power output of the PCI-E lane anyway (we see the need for 6 and 8 pin connectors).

Some cards however are strictly PCI-E 2.0 only, liek AFox's Radeon HD 6850 single slot, no 6pin power required, clocks are the same as the reference model but draws all its juice from the PCI-E slot.
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#59
EarthDog
75W spec did not change in PCIe2. I thought the same until I went to PCIeSIG. ;)
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#61
nothappy
Damned if I DO Damned if I DONT

It is kind of harsh to see companies throwing stones at each other, rather childish even.

Here we see that the board from Gigabyte really is Gen 3 ready, and actually he tries to show his finesse while at it. They try to up their game by defending and not retaliating (or is it because they havent found dirt on MSI yet?), in whisch I give point to them.

But to me, I am tired of socalled "READY". I got a 22 inch LG TV I use as monitor, it is branded 'HD READY' (1360 x 768). My MSI K9A-platinum has gen 1 pci-e socket which houses my HIS HD 5770 card (gen 2), at first it wouldn't even start, so after I bought a new PSU and got the same result I aske MSI for help, and they provided a new bios, but its showing on gpu-z as gen 1.1.

So what MY point is thank you for the heads up by MSI and nice save to GIGABYTE but will you STOP WITH THE READY SHIT ALREADY!, WE WANT THE FULL F**KING POTENTIAL! thanks :mad:
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#62
WarraWarra
All it boils down to is that when you buy a Porsche you don't want to end up driving a VW beetle that is overpriced by 20times just because it has a Audi engine in it.

(USA english translation) it is the difference between a USD$1m. bummer and a USD$20k ford bronko, same thing just more plastic and uglier for more money and useless as bummer.

This is the same for full specs pci-e gen 3.0 if you claim you have full spec pci-e gen 3.0 then deliver or correct the mistakes and say it will work in a "half full/empty egg" Intel Sandy-e way so the consumer can decide.

We as end user can understand stupidity / incompetence and many other things that can happen, but Gigabyte don't come with BS. Mistakes like this can bankrupt a Gigabyte company in 1 month so get serious or get lost and fire all gigabyte staff.

The "OCZ SSD equivalent" Gigabyte damage has been done.
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#63
laszlo
gen2 now gen 3... marketing bullshit;they killed agp without reason just to force people to buy new stuff... this is another variant of the forced 1000hrs lifespan light bulb conspiracy ... planned obsolescence in function
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#64
Mussels
Freshwater Moderator
laszlogen2 now gen 3... marketing bullshit;they killed agp without reason just to force people to buy new stuff... this is another variant of the forced 1000hrs lifespan light bulb conspiracy ... planned obsolescence in function
PCI-E is shit tons better than AGP and PCI combined, stop thinking about it just for graphics cards.
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